Question about Islam's perspective of human history.

format_quote Originally Posted by xChris

I am not so familiar with the Quran, nor the teachings of Islam. I am a Christian, and our Bible is like a mixture of Hadith and Quran -- if that makes sense to you. I am aware of the Muslim stance that the Quran is the unaltered words of God, no human altercation or addition -- it's not even the words of Muhammad, just the direct word of God that Muhammad recited with Gabriel and was later written. Then there is the Hadith, which are comparable to stories found within the Bible, teachings and wisdom and things witnessed about Muhammad's life and such. And I understand from your perspective, the Bible is a mixture of everything -- some words of God, some Hadith, and some talks of history and genealogy.

I have always been very interested in history, but I'm a bit lost when it comes to the Quran. It's no way in the same format as the Bible. Is there sections dedicated in the Quran to human history? Or in Hadith?
What I am very interested in doing, is comparing the Islamic perspective of history, compared to the Christian perspective of history. For example, if Noah's or Abraham's or Moses' story is different, or if Adam and Eve's story is different -- What I am really seeking to do is compare the Bible against the Quran and other texts such as the Hadith. I am wondering, does the Quran write the history of mankind? Do you guys perhaps accept the biblical account?

I am wondering because the Quran is structured differently than the Bible is structured, and I'm a little confused about it. For example, the Bible starts with Genesis, which describes the creation of all that is.

For example, in Genesis it describes how God created the world, then it describes the story of Adam and Eve, then it describes the temptation of Satan and the fall of humanity with the first sin committed by a human. Then, the curse of God on the earth and on women in having childbirth be painful. Then it was said after man had "become like one of us, knowing good and evil" they had to be expelled from the Garden of Eden so that he would not eat from the Tree of Life and live forever.

Then of course we have the story of Cain and Abel. It was said that Cain was marked, and he left the Lord's presence.
Then of course Adam and Eve had Seth, which led to people for the first time starting to call on the name of the Lord (and presumably worshiping, the start of faith in a way?)

Then after this the bible gives genealogy, it's called the written account of Adam's family line. It describes all the people from Adam to Noah.

Then it speaks of presumably angels (called sons of God) procreating with humans, called Nephilim. It also speaks that the wickedness of the human race had become incredible, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil. God regretted that he had made human beings, and was troubled, so he decided to basically destroy creation. But Noah found favor with the Lord, because he was righteous -- presumably the only righteous person alive. So, then we have the story, that the Lord protected Noah and his family, and two creatures of every species. Destroyed the earth for a clean slate, you know the story. God said he would never destroy all living creatures again, made a covenant with Noah. Then God gave Noah some Law, and the rainbow is the representation of God's promise to never destroy the earth again. Then we have some more history, and the start of the story of Abram (later renamed to Abraham)

Anyway, I'm not sure if you've read the bible, but I am curious if the Islamic literature gives its viewpoint of the history of mankind. I'm curious if the Islamic text differs from the Christian text on such matters, such as Adam and Eve, the flood, Abraham, ext.

Because what I am most curious about, is how Islam and Christianity differs in general. It would be curious if Muslims did not accept the Biblical account for early mankind, and if Islamic scripture has an alternative view. Or, if Muslims accept the accounts of the Torah in general. I wonder if there is a Islam equivalent to Genesis in the Quran or the Hadith. I am wondering if Islam has an alternative perspective regarding Adam & Eve, Noah, Abraham, Moses, ext.

Cheers!

Well the official position of Islam regarding the scripture is that at one point or another it was corrupted, and can't be taken to dictate orthodox rulings. And the Quran isn't simply for history, but uses historical examples to convey it's primary message.

Personally my reading is that there's a lot of similarity between Genesis and some hadiths, leading me to incline that atleast the Tanakh part of Torah is true. I can't believe in some passages like those from Samuel where apparently god commands that the entire population of Amalek was to be purged including infants, children, women, animals. It goes against Islam's doctrine of war, as well as normal humanity.

For the new testament I'm far less charitable.

And in terms of a lot of 'history' as believed in Orthodox Judaism which also draws on Rabbi exegesis and commentaries, Oral Torah, and other books, probably you will find we don't believe most of those things.

format_quote Originally Posted by xChris

I am not so familiar with the Quran, nor the teachings of Islam. I am a Christian, and our Bible is like a mixture of Hadith and Quran -- if that makes sense to you. I am aware of the Muslim stance that the Quran is the unaltered words of God, no human altercation or addition -- it's not even the words of Muhammad, just the direct word of God that Muhammad recited with Gabriel and was later written. Then there is the Hadith, which are comparable to stories found within the Bible, teachings and wisdom and things witnessed about Muhammad's life and such. And I understand from your perspective, the Bible is a mixture of everything -- some words of God, some Hadith, and some talks of history and genealogy.

exactly. Quran contains literally words of God, and therefore the absolute truth. Hadeeth however are in different levels of certainty, some of them are pretty certain because many different people witnessed and recorded the same event (different sources for same or similar haddeth)...others are not that certain because there is only one source or the source is not that reliable.

format_quote Originally Posted by xChris

I have always been very interested in history, but I'm a bit lost when it comes to the Quran. It's no way in the same format as the Bible. Is there sections dedicated in the Quran to human history? Or in Hadith?

No, there are no sections in the Quran like that. The Quran is not a history book. Some verses refer to a certain event in history. you can use Tafsirs (for example tafsir Ibn Kathir which is free available online) to understand what is meant by it.
I generally advise to use tafsir to fully comprehend a verse...without it can be really complicated.

format_quote Originally Posted by xChris

What I am very interested in doing, is comparing the Islamic perspective of history, compared to the Christian perspective of history. For example, if Noah's or Abraham's or Moses' story is different, or if Adam and Eve's story is different -- What I am really seeking to do is compare the Bible against the Quran and other texts such as the Hadith. I am wondering, does the Quran write the history of mankind? Do you guys perhaps accept the biblical account?

we believe the bible has been corrupted...therefore, we cannot be sure which part of it is true and which part not...therefore we do not accept the biblical account. However, in general the stories are very similar to each other.
And yes, the stories in the Quran are really the history of mankind. The flood, Noah as s ark, etc. all are events that literally and really happened. not just stories. if that is what you mean.

format_quote Originally Posted by xChris

I am wondering because the Quran is structured differently than the Bible is structured, and I'm a little confused about it. For example, the Bible starts with Genesis, which describes the creation of all that is.

For example, in Genesis it describes how God created the world, then it describes the story of Adam and Eve, then it describes the temptation of Satan and the fall of humanity with the first sin committed by a human.

with first sin, you mean Adam as eating from the forbidden tree...which is the original sin that caused the fall of human kind right?
in Islam, that is not correct. Adam as did make that mistake...but then he repented and got forgiven. The fact that he was send to Earth was already his destiny whether he did or did not eat from that tree. He would be sent to Earth anyway...so there is no original sin.
and the very first sin in human kind is Kabil (cain) murdering his own brother Abil (Abel)

format_quote Originally Posted by xChris

Then, the curse of God on the earth and on women in having childbirth be painful. Then it was said after man had "become like one of us, knowing good and evil" they had to be expelled from the Garden of Eden so that he would not eat from the Tree of Life and live forever.

Again, not true from islamic view. We are not on Earth as a some somt of punishment of God fon cerain sins of our ancestors...everyone is totally sin free when they are born.

format_quote Originally Posted by xChris

Then of course we have the story of Cain and Abel. It was said that Cain was marked, and he left the Lord's presence.
Then of course Adam and Eve had Seth, which led to people for the first time starting to call on the name of the Lord (and presumably worshiping, the start of faith in a way?)

No, Faith way already there long before Adam came to Earth. Every single soul already existed long before Adam as came to Earth...God gathered and asked us "am I not your lord?" we answered "no, you are!" (the Qalu Bala event) we are Muslims since that event.

format_quote Originally Posted by xChris

Then after this the bible gives genealogy, it's called the written account of Adam's family line. It describes all the people from Adam to Noah.

Then it speaks of presumably angels (called sons of God) procreating with humans, called Nephilim. It also speaks that the wickedness of the human race had become incredible, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil. God regretted that he had made human beings, and was troubled, so he decided to basically destroy creation.

This seems that God is just doing some things, not exactly knowing the outcome of this, improvises, and corrects when needed, makes mistakes, regrets, etc. etc.
If you use your logic and reason, you would know that this cannot be true. God is omnipotent. this means He knows everything beforehand. regretting something means that you made a mistake in the past. God does not make mistakes...so he does not have to regret anything.

format_quote Originally Posted by xChris

But Noah found favor with the Lord, because he was righteous -- presumably the only righteous person alive. So, then we have the story, that the Lord protected Noah and his family, and two creatures of every species. Destroyed the earth for a clean slate, you know the story. God said he would never destroy all living creatures again, made a covenant with Noah.

So God makes a boo boo...noah like "bad God, do not do that ever again"...God: "OK...I promise I will not destroy all living creatures ever again".
Does that sound plausible to you?

format_quote Originally Posted by xChris

Then God gave Noah some Law, and the rainbow is the representation of God's promise to never destroy the earth again. Then we have some more history, and the start of the story of Abram (later renamed to Abraham)

Anyway, I'm not sure if you've read the bible, but I am curious if the Islamic literature gives its viewpoint of the history of mankind. I'm curious if the Islamic text differs from the Christian text on such matters, such as Adam and Eve, the flood, Abraham, ext.

So, the basic story is very similar yes, but if you look at it more closely, the biblical stories contains details which cannot be true because it totally goes against Gods characteristics.

format_quote Originally Posted by xChris

Because what I am most curious about, is how Islam and Christianity differs in general. It would be curious if Muslims did not accept the Biblical account for early mankind, and if Islamic scripture has an alternative view. Or, if Muslims accept the accounts of the Torah in general. I wonder if there is a Islam equivalent to Genesis in the Quran or the Hadith. I am wondering if Islam has an alternative perspective regarding Adam & Eve, Noah, Abraham, Moses, ext.

Cheers!

Thorah is similar to bible. basically very similar...but the thorah too is not exactly 100% Gods words...so it cannot be trusted either.

About human history...those events like Noahs ark, moses crossing the sea, Jesus healing the sick really happened...but not exactly in the way the bible or thorah claims.

You have to realise this:
God created everything and placed Adam as on Earth....Adam as knew the true faith, but the next generations slowly added changes. and every time people started to wander off and created their own human made religion, God would send a new messenger to earth to guide humans back to the right path. at the same time people developed and needed a new set of rules every now and then. a good example was alcohol. in Adam as time, alcohol was not even discovered yet...so a rule that prohibited alcohol was not needed.
In conclusion, most of the religions originate from this one true faith. that is why every religion teaches the same basics. That is also why christianity and judaism and islaam have the same prophets etc.

But in the end there is only one true religion which is the islaam and all others are human made or outdated and void.