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Where can I get real answers?

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    Where can I get real answers? (OP)


    I have been studying Islam for a few years now.
    I don't know if that is going to lead me to Islam or push me away from it.
    I have asked questions in all sort of Islamic sites and usually end up having discussions which end up by people stop the discussion or the site close the discussion or kick me out of the site.
    At that point I assume I won the discussion and my initial suspicion was right to the point no one can no longer challenge me.
    That could make me feel good but I would prefer to have the official Islamic word about what I'm asking.
    The answer usually is: I should go to a scholar.
    Now how do I do that online?Are there scholars answering questions to Muslims and non Muslims online?
    Can you point me in that direction?

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    Re: Where can I get real answers?

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    Therefore a can assure you my heart is just fine and I am satisfy with life in general.I'm a westerner who doesn't know about living in poverty, or living with disabilities or living under an oppressive regime.
    Man, you said that, now you're denying! Now you live in poor western country? You're funny.

    I wonder what nation are you talking about, can you be more specific?
    Again you're being funny... Which western nation did not kill or almost kill another nation, especially when moving to Americas? What about Romans?

    Do I know where the cotton comes from? No, I don't. I'm pretty sure it doesn't come from slave's plantations anymore, if that is what worries you.
    Not anymore? Are you sure? Or your media makes you believe you actually live in paradise?

    Tell me about Africa. Are those people happy? Is it their fault they were colonized by western civilizations in the past, is it their fault they're enslaved to western civilizations at the moment? Read man! Learn something about this world and how it functions!

    Still talking about this life being just and nice... It's maybe good to you since you live in nice, wealthy western country with no poverty, no opression and your only worry is your game being canceled.

    Why god created unjust world? What do you think? What is Judgment day for? What is afterlife for?

    I also wonder how old are you and whether you felt the time pass quickly... Probably not, but you will for sure then you'll wonder what was this life for.

    What's your life goal as an atheist? To get old and retired and then die?

    You're still jumping into which country I'm from or is oppression ok to me. This is funny again. I never praised this world, you did. You're happy with it and you find it just.

    Is it just that Hitler's justice was his suicide? Ask jews around the world if they're satisfied with that...
    Where can I get real answers?

    Don't rush your salat for anything, as you are standing in front of The One who is in charge of whatever you are rushing for!
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    Re: Where can I get real answers?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Flos View Post
    Man, you said that, now you're denying! Now you live in poor western country? You're funny.
    Put it in context. I was told I had a void in my heart and that's why I was searching for God.
    My response was, there's no void in my heart nor in my life. I've never been poor nor had any real personal problems but I never said I was rich.
    I make my living as a computer programmer, far from being rich.
    format_quote Originally Posted by Flos View Post
    Again you're being funny... Which western nation did not kill or almost kill another nation, especially when moving to Americas? What about Romans?
    And who conquered north Africa before the europeans did, you wanna take a guess?
    format_quote Originally Posted by Flos View Post
    Do I know where the cotton comes from? No, I don't. I'm pretty sure it doesn't come from slave's plantations anymore, if that is what worries you.Not anymore? Are you sure? Or your media makes you believe you actually live in paradise?
    And who had slaves way before the europeans did, you wanna take a guess?
    I know slavery still happens today but I don't think it is a western problem specifically.
    You can even say that a regular domestic employee in Dubai can become a modern day slave.
    The employers take the employees passports and use these people for years before they let them go.
    format_quote Originally Posted by Flos View Post
    What's your life goal as an atheist? To get old and retired and then die?
    That doesn't sound bad at all. Add to that that I would like to enjoy this life to the fullest in a free country with my family and closed friends.
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    Re: Where can I get real answers?

    format_quote Originally Posted by *charisma* View Post
    I am wondering, what would religion add to your life? You do as you please, you go where you want to go. The only restrictions you have are the ones you place on yourself, so don't you feel free? What is the benefit to finding out whether God exists or not, or whether Islam is the truth? I'm curious.
    You almost make it sound like the existence of God is a personal choice.
    Do you mean that God only exists if I decide that it does?
    If that was the case I would prefer to stay atheist.
    Something to think indeed.
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    Re: Where can I get real answers?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
    Perhaps you have failed to realize the title of this thread is "Where do I get real answers?"
    I have many questions unanswered and no God has giving me any signs of his existence yet.
    Yes I missed that, I am sorry. I just focussed on your last post.
    format_quote Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
    You, on the other hand spend your days praying 5 times, obeying rules about what to eat, what to wear, what to do when you go to the bathroom and how to behave in general.
    If Allah exists then you are doing exactly what he required you to do and you should be proud.
    If Allah exists I have nothing to fear because I was not convinced of it but I have done nothing wrong as a human to feel guilty.
    My morals don't come from Allah but I can guarantee you any God would be proud of what I've done.
    you are saying "but I have done nothing wrong as a human to feel guilty" because you do not know your actual goal in life.
    You are missing the information what you are doing on this world, why are you here on Earth.

    Muslims believe that long before humans came to Earth, God asked us "Am I not your Lord?"
    we answered "of course You are"
    You might want to search up the "The Qalu Bala covenant"
    But saying that where God is present is easy. The Question is...would we answer in the same way if we didn't have the direct presence of God?
    Would we answer the same if God were hidden?

    We are now on this Earth to find that out. Our Quest on this Earth is to believe in that God when He is not directly present.
    This is a test, not a test for God to find out who truely believes and who not...He already knows the answer...but it is a test meant for you.
    So in the afterlife you are the witness of yourself whether you believed or not.

    You can fail the test or succeed.
    So the phrase "but I have done nothing wrong as a human to feel guilty" is unfortunately not enough to save yourself from eternal torment.

    You can be the teachers most favourite student, which is a very good thing, but still that wont be enough to pass your math test, if you do not give the correct answers.
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    Re: Where can I get real answers?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Ümit View Post
    you are saying "but I have done nothing wrong as a human to feel guilty" because you do not know your actual goal in life.You are missing the information what you are doing on this world, why are you here on Earth.Muslims believe that long before humans came to Earth, God asked us "Am I not your Lord?"we answered "of course You are"
    What do you mean God asked us "Am I not your Lord?
    Nobody asked me, I wasn't there.
    So you answered: "of course You are"
    Again, when was that? how did you answered and to whom?Is that figurative speech?
    I definitely didn't get that memo.
    format_quote Originally Posted by Ümit View Post
    We are now on this Earth to find that out. Our Quest on this Earth is to believe in that God when He is not directly present.This is a test, not a test for God to find out who truly believes and who not...He already knows the answer...but it is a test meant for you.So in the afterlife you are the witness of yourself whether you believed or not.You can fail the test or succeed.So the phrase "but I have done nothing wrong as a human to feel guilty" is unfortunately not enough to save yourself from eternal torment.
    There is one little problem:
    I can easily fake I believe but I guess God would know it.So how good is it to be honest?
    So far I have got no indications God is real, that is the honest truth.
    All I can do is being a good human and lying to God is not being honest.
    So if God exists he should understand the situation.
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    Re: Where can I get real answers?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
    What do you mean God asked us "Am I not your Lord?
    Nobody asked me, I wasn't there.
    So you answered: "of course You are"
    Again, when was that? how did you answered and to whom?Is that figurative speech?
    I definitely didn't get that memo.
    He quite literally asked you that question...and you answered.
    Of course you do not remember that because that is wiped out of our memory on behalf of this test. None of us can remember that event.
    But we will remember it when the test is over.

    format_quote Originally Posted by Eddy View Post

    There is one little problem:
    I can easily fake I believe but I guess God would know it.So how good is it to be honest?
    So far I have got no indications God is real, that is the honest truth.
    All I can do is being a good human and lying to God is not being honest.
    So if God exists he should understand the situation.
    I do not understand what you are trying to tell with being honest.
    As you stated yourself you cannot fool God.
    The only one you can fool is yourself.
    Of course...if you are not convinced, you are not convinced. No use pretending to be convinced. But I must advise you to keep an open mind.
    You do not believe it but there is a lot at stake...even when you have done nothing wrong.
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    Re: Where can I get real answers?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
    You almost make it sound like the existence of God is a personal choice.
    Do you mean that God only exists if I decide that it does?
    If that was the case I would prefer to stay atheist.
    Something to think indeed.
    I didn't mean anything. Just asking you questions to understand your perspective.
    Where can I get real answers?

    D e a t h

    is the easiest
    of all things after it
    ; ;

    the hardest
    of all things before it
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    Re: Where can I get real answers?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Ümit View Post
    You might want to search up the "The Qalu Bala covenant"But saying that where God is present is easy. The Question is...would we answer in the same way if we didn't have the direct presence of God?Would we answer the same if God were hidden?
    For any practical reason that test is useless (unless I misunderstood the whole thing).
    According to my understanding everybody answered "Yes" to the question so there's nothing to be revealed at the time of judgment day.
    I know I answered yes and you do as well, am I correct?
    So now I am a non believer based on my own investigation and encouraged by Muslims who claim Islam is not a religion based on "blind faith" but on facts and logic and common sense.
    None of those facts, logic and common sense has yet revealed the existence of God to me.
    There are still some unanswered questions which I had hoped the scholars would answer to me but apparently they don't want to waste their time with me.

    format_quote Originally Posted by *charisma* View Post
    BTW I hope you don't take my questions the wrong way, I'm genuinely curious how you process existence and life etc. Agnostics/atheists are often drawn to talk about religion, but I don't understand why they'd waste their time like that when they are fully free to live their life the way they want with likeminded people.
    The answer is pretty simple actually. Most people around us are theists and sooner or later we asked ourselves, are these people all wrong or are we wrong about God?
    Unlike your misunderstanding of the people on the west, we (atheists/agnostics) don't live our lives looking for "like minded people" to live our lives.
    Most atheists in the west come from families that are theists (in my case Christians).
    That doesn't change our lives a bit. My friends are still my friends, my family still loves me as always and life goes on.
    As a matter of fact I know many people who I have no idea about their religious beliefs.
    Sometimes I'm surprised when I find out after many years a person is a Jew or a Protestant or whatever. We simply don't ask, what you worship at home or in your church is your business and we are not affected by it.
    You can say people in the west in general are laid back when it comes to religion.
    Tolerance comes very easy when there's no religious fanatics around you.
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    Re: Where can I get real answers?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
    For any practical reason that test is useless (unless I misunderstood the whole thing).
    According to my understanding everybody answered "Yes" to the question so there's nothing to be revealed at the time of judgment day.
    I know I answered yes and you do as well, am I correct?
    Yes, you are correct...we all answered yes.
    format_quote Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
    So now I am a non believer based on my own investigation and encouraged by Muslims who claim Islam is not a religion based on "blind faith" but on facts and logic and common sense.
    correct
    format_quote Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
    None of those facts, logic and common sense has yet revealed the existence of God to me.
    There are still some unanswered questions which I had hoped the scholars would answer to me but apparently they don't want to waste their time with me.
    If you are looking for scientific proof for the existence of God, you will never be able to find it. because that would make the test useless.
    ehm....how do I explain this...science is good, it gives us a lot of answers...however, it does not give all answers. it has a limit. As long as you respect those limits, everything is fine.
    however, beyond those limits, science is inaccurate or wrong. Think about the many (if not all) theories who get corrected or replaced by newer and better theories as we learn and evolve.
    Science gets more and more accurate, and we can push the limits a little further everytime.

    about your unanswered questions.
    ehm...it may be that we are not expert enough for you to answer all questions. It may be that the answer is part of the hidden and we are not allowed to know the answer for reasons.
    Meanings of verses in the Quraan can be really deep, so we may not be able to understand everything.

    you should realise that you are still missing a lot of information...information neccessary to form the right insight. that causes you still to look for answers...dont give up, and hopefully one day you will get there.

    however, you should ask yourself whether the answer you are missing is critical for you to believe or is it just something to put some puzzle pieces together?
    I mean, we all have many questions in our heads about Islaam. I am always looking why some rules are the way they are, and what is the wisdom behind them.
    Sometimes I get lucky, and I find a satisfying answer...many times, the answer is not satisfying for me, so I just park the question, and hope...maybe in some future I stumble upon the answer.

    However those questions are not standing between me and Islaam. they are not critical questions for me to believe in God.

    So you should do that too...seperate your critical questions that stands in your way...park the questions which are not that critical for now.
    What causes you to not believe? find answers on those questions first and deal with others later.

    That would be my advise to you.

    You can always come here and ask your questions. We would still be happy to help you out, or we will search with you for answers.

    Good luck with it.
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    Re: Where can I get real answers?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
    None of those facts, logic and common sense has yet revealed the existence of God to me.
    From br. Eric (he's unable to post responses here):

    Yet there is no conclusive evidence to show that the universe and life started purely by natural causes. If you demand proof for the existence of God; it would be more truthful to demand the same level of proof for a natural creation without God.

    In the spirit of searching for God the creator of all that is seen and unseen,
    Eric
    Where can I get real answers?

    D e a t h

    is the easiest
    of all things after it
    ; ;

    the hardest
    of all things before it
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    Re: Where can I get real answers?

    You, on the other hand spend your days praying 5 times, obeying rules about what to eat, what to wear, what to do when you go to the bathroom and how to behave in general.

    If Allah exists then you are doing exactly what he required you to do and you should be proud.
    If Allah exists I have nothing to fear because I was not convinced of it but I have done nothing wrong as a human to feel guilty.
    My morals don't come from Allah but I can guarantee you any God would be proud of what I've done.

    You're starting to freak me out, you're saying the world is not just but this world (according to your beliefs) was created by Allah.

    Did Allah made it imperfect on purpose?
    Is it a test?
    Am I missing something?
    Is it all a preparation for the afterlife?
    You seem to carry a lot of hate in you, do you think that gives you extra points towards the after life?
    I'm a westerner who doesn't know about living in poverty, or living with disabilities or living under an oppressive regime. Trying to find if God exists has no relation with any discontent about my personal life.
    Being an atheist (unlike what you might think) doesn't make your life meaningless nor makes your morals weaker than the morals of a theist.
    My quest to find God will continue, in the meantime I'll keep enjoying all that life has to offer.
    If you spent already years, I don’t understand why your saying the basic stuff – like post 20, is it a test, and saying your morals don’t need to come from Allah and post 13 where you said I’ll keep enjoying life. I like to cover some points:

    Lying about life:

    1. Majority of people in this world don’t get to choose how they live-they don’t have careers, but jobs that they have to do (not career in terms of what profession they would like to go into).
    2. All the economists are already pointing to a huge crash-people are already planning to survive that by hoarding gold -so you need to quite lying to yourself. Whatever is going to happen no Muslim wants to see, but it is going to happen, all Muslims or non-Muslims countries will be affected
    3. This is also evidence by what has been written about the Muslims living in the aftermath-there will be conflict (people won’t be using passports, or border control), this is where at this time a group of people will be told that the Dajjal is here -the flee back thinking he has truly arrived (but then realise he hasn’t, but then he really does arrive (the Anti-Christ) -here think for a moment, if you told anyone now the Dajjal is here, they wouldn’t flee and take it seriously -but this is the reality of the situation-they understand where they are
    4. What is happening, whilst you waste time, is that (not by the hands of Muslims), these countries around the world will finish -there won’t be TV’s, internet (the Prophet Jesus peace be upon him and the Dajjal won’t be giving interviews), so people if they chose to listen before the Major Signs of the Day of Judgement start, will accept the coming of the Dajjal and the return of Prophet Jesus peace be upon him -so no matter where you are in this world, you know and accept where you are at this point in time.
    5. Living through the Major Signs of the Day of Judgement is no picnic-people will have respite after the Dajjal, but no Prophet would ever tell people to build a state and look for the life of this world -as the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him as stated the signs will follow after the other -when you know the Dajjal is here, the Prophet Jesus peace be upon him is returning and when he arrives back, you know that the Gog and Magog will be coming etc.
    6. If people don’t repent now, they will find it harder to do so afterwards, as they will get caught up in events and with the lack of discipline -will fight and loot each other-just as criminals don’t think of others.



    Test


    1. When all the Prophets came, they told people to repent straightaway -it is actually the media (and I do accept that the way some Muslims have been trying to explain things to Atheists), make it look like it is something that no one can believe. No Prophet ever told people we are going to have a conference and I’ll get back to you-no as soon as they were told of their Prophet status-they told people to repent straightaway. You don’t know when you are going to die and you don’t require a particular education to understand-even old, children (as long as not disabled in away that stops their understanding). It is only now -which I 100% disagree with, making it look like Atheists think more-which they do not-majority of them don’t have an education -I remember where they were in agreement with Stepben Hawking-but when he said the Universe was always around =-the Atheists wish to disagree, also majority have not read the paperwork on evolution etc-so how can they understand the science-they are just joining with anyone who says anything that goes along with what they want to say-here they are wrongdoers-sinful people, as they already elevated their own vain desires and it is only what how people have been talking-essentially fooling themselves, into thinking they are something different, complicated people. When are not, we are simple people, living simple lives, we don’t do much in this world, but try to help others.
    2. The West has demonstrated on what they would do without Islam. Allah in his infinite wisdom has shown how far removed they are-look at even transgender-clearly telling Muslims they only accept things that make sense-but clearly being told to accept transgender-giving drugs to children. What they want is to say that everyone was assigned their “sex” by a Doctor, and that genitals doesn’t tell you if you’re a male or female. Here -how an earth does this make any sense-and you say people only accept what they understand to be true. I understand that a lot of people don’t agree-but I also wish to show this as like atheism you are being led astray-you are not independent. You have been fooled and always have been.
    3. Just as the Governments don’t make enough money, they have fooled people in making money, by sending old people to care homes and childcare etc. They have turned what is essentially a family matter to a money making issue.
    4. Satan does exist and he has done a good job on you and others. They say they are free-but free to do what-what have you done which is so free-what does free mean?? You claim that Muslims are required to follow specific rules-failing to accept that this is the way of life-nothing oppressive about this. Muslims wash the deceased bodies-what to you do personally?? A Muslim Man has more responsibilities on average-taking care of sisters, wife, children etc.
    5. It is shown by how many studies that Atheists are less likely to give to charity-why is this? As they are selfish.

    Conceited self
    1. You think you are more compassionate than God, do you think you treat people better-when you lie to them -as you lie here, I think your true purpose is coming here thinking of saying things and causing people to have doubts-well that ain’t going to happen.
    2. Evolution is a lie- all the cells can’t organise themselves and say you be the brain, you be the eye-they are fashioned by Allah in the womb and they grow. How can evolution explain a perfectly formed human male and female?? Some Atheists have actually said they don’t agree with Islam as they don’t believe brothers and sisters get married (but that was at the start and they didn’t live as people live like today-be a bit more respectful to each other), but there is no other way, a male couldn’t have been created in another part of the world and a perfectly formed female in the other and just happen to have the right genital parts that fit to procreate-that is foolish to think otherwise-anyway Scientists have already said evolution doesn’t explain everything (that is non-Muslims saying that)
    3. You think the signs that you see are not important-then you are arrogant, where you trivialise things, just like people when they say, it’s only rain. Who on earth do you think you are to say that with Earth -of all the abundance of food an life that Allah doesn’t exist. You live like in a swampy area- and you tell people to go along with you to keep you company-typical atheist-which is akin to teenage thinking-that they say people will understand who they are and they deem themselves to be complicated people when they are nothing of the sort. Atheists then spend more time learning facts (even though majority don’t have education formally) to try and appear sophisticated. Even a puddle has more depth than you.
    4. People have plenty-you don’t need anymore signs. As Allah has also stated in the past, when the people received the table spreadth at the time of Prophet Jesus peace be upon him, he said if any of these people turned away, he would punish them like he has never punished anyone before. When Prophet Moses peace be upon him killed someone, Allah said to him he would have been in big trouble if he worshipped Allah once. Here I am saying the more stuff that you have, the worser your punishment will be. You don’t have to face things directly (just as we heed the warnings like the flood, the people of Aad and Thamud-it will be written on our records, we have heard of these things but didn’t heed the message), therefore every natural disaster that you see or hear around the world is written on your record.
    5. Pharoah even rejected the signs and only repented when he was drowning-no Allah doesn’t have to bring another but an even massive star to earth and take it back for show-your pride is that important. Just as Satan, nothing he needs to be shown or hear to overcome his pride-his pride is not deserving that he needs to know more or see more.
    6. This is where apostasy is applicable in Islam -I wouldn’t say today as people don’t learn enough about Islam-so you quote people leaving Islam-well everything they say is similar to basic stuff-we have refuted everything that they said and they are lying. But apostasy is for those that believed and those people who are saying childish levels like your points, don’t qualify -here Satan can’t say he doesn’t understand, this is where this is Allah’s world, and he has created the laws and allows us to kill those who murder, and those who turn away from religion, don’t need to hear anymore, and as the whole purpose of being in this world in to heed the signs and they have already done that. I have not come across any ex-Muslim as you call it who were true believers. Believers is a word that changes meaning, but it is about someone who accepts Allah has fact, just as the people turned away from the evil doers, and no matter their hardship, stood fast to Allah’s word at the time of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him.
    7. You are not important in the hereafter when you go to hell, you don’t’ have any privacy-people like to quote, only God can judge me, Allah has given the rules, how can we forbid evil and enjoin what is good if we can’t say such and such if they do this is in error (this is what the Christians failed to do as well-as they wanted to be loved by each other).
    8. This is where we have ample proof in this world and it is not hard for people to see either, the Atheist like to say they are kinder, but they have a problem with someone just saying they accept the One God, Day of Judgement, Paradise and Hell. Even the Prophets in the past-they didn’t do anything else, people knew who they were and as soon as they said it they were opposed. This is as their own hatred towards good, even the homosexuals at the time of Prophet Lut peace be upon him said he is telling us to be pure. In today’s world they don’t speak directly and hide behind lies after lies and they fool themselves.
    9. This is what people are trying to do though, they are trying to get something that even prositututes were not able to get -being accepted in society. Homosezuals, transgender etc, are lying, they have in the west able to do what they want- but they are not happy as when they walk down the street, they want people to mentally see them no different to straight people. Here they want you to change how you think. The fact is that even if everyone in the world accepted them, it would only take one Man to stand up and say they don’t agree, and they will be upset and complaining. They can’t have this anyway, as our test in this world is fair. If we believed in this -then we wouldn’t be tested in this world.
    10. People think they are good, because they don’t commit major sins like murder, rape etc, but a lot of people are going to Hell, not because they done these things. Even if you have been murdered-you need to make sure that you accepted Allah -as why should Allah reward you for your pain, when you did not seek it from him??
    11. Majority of problems in this world is that people are disrespectful -they got no discipline, this is the issue with bad behaviour, crime etc. It starts off simple as someone having anice object and you can’t keep your hands off it, you see people not wash their hands before eating. Manners is extremely important and need to be respectful. This actually why people fail-so simple, they don’t care like children at school, can’t be thothered wanted to have fun. Then only when it gets serious do they take it seriously – but what do you expect Allah to do, to keep putting you in life threatening situation?? People will complain the same on the last day, they wish they were told-they were told, but they didn’t listen. No one needs to come and shake you.


    Allah and his rules

    1. What you have to consider is that everyone has their place-it is easier to use Heaven as an example, no one in Heaven is in the same position as Allah. You can’t speak to Allah as he is one of you. He is All-knowing and All-Seeing – of course he knows everything he is God. Just because he knows everything, that doesn’t undermine our test as we work to our level.
    2. Even a non-Muslim said this after look at Mecca-if there is a God, this is how he should be treated.
    3. In heaven there is a similar structure as the Kaaba that angels go around. If they could they would go around Allah’s throne-but it is too big-this is a representative of Allah’s throne that we go around the Kaaba. Everyone is looking towards one direction -just as in Heaven they look towards Allah and on the Day of Judgement (not someone facing you, but forwards.
    4. When you die, there is not freedom of thought or movement, as you only will be thinking of going to Hell if you don’t repent.
    5. The Day of Judgement is where people will only care about their own record-your own parents won’t care about you, as everyone belongs to Allah-nothing to do with anyone else of where you go.
    6. Even your parents would be siding with the Prophets on that Day even if they go to Hellfire -as the disbelievers follow the other, they will be blaming their leaders and asking for them to take a portion of their punishment-but they will not be helped.
    7. Allah has taught us how to be with him -that is to pray to him- if he didn’t we would be confused of how to approach and speak to him, this worship is befitting to Allah and all the angels bow down to him.
    8. All the beings know of his existence—where even in the Quran it is written that the ant spoke to tell the others to get out of the way, for Prophet Solomon peace be upon him was arriving. All the pets that people keep, will disown them, no animal is going to choose you -it is with Allah, then the Prophets, companions of the Prophets and the rest of the good people. No one is equal-you are not the same as the Prophets or other righteous people.
    9. In heaven there is no democracy=Allah is in charge-just as with Prophets they are in charge, and when the Prophet Jesus peace be upon him comes back, we won’t be voting for him to be in charge-he is in charge. We will have the benefit of the Mahdi- but we don’t need to be taught about Islam all over again -as the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him has already taught us.


    Differences between Islam, Christianity and Judaism

    1. Muslims say we are servants of Allah, the Christians say they are children of God (but as Allah stated-why would he punish them if they are his children?) and the Jews say they are the chosen people (but Allah has provided the message for all-anyone can be believers)
    2. The Christians and the Jews did not listen to their Prophets -this is why the Muslims are doing better, as we listened to the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him (the Christians were still more fearful of the authorities than with Allah-regardless of the signs that were shown by Prophet Jesus peace be upon him-if the Muslims were there-we would have stood by him) and the Jews even said to the Prophet Moses peace be upon him we won’t do anything like fight when need to-and so they were left wandering around the desert.
    3. The mark of a believer is a that they respect anyone who accepts Allah, the Day of Judgment, Paradise and Hell -the Muslims are I’m pleased to say hold people up in higher esteem when they agree that they believe in God. The Jews and the Christians don’t -this is where they do not worship God as he should. It is the same test that was failed by Satan. He prayed to Allah so many times, but as soon as he heard that Prophet Adam peace be upon him was to be created -he didn’t want him to do well. No believer should ever go against another when we as Muslims have clearly stated that we accepted all the Prophets, believe in the Day of Judgement, Paradise and Hell.
    4. The Christians as Prophet Ibrahim peace be upon him as stated in the Quran said of the idol worshippers it is of their love for each other. This is where the Christians hope that by asking people to look at them-being kind, then people would look at them more and be sucked in-this is also distorted as you see extreme examples of people helping someone and looking a their reaction-is is more on social media, but also by television programmes, you help do up someone’s house and then look at heir reaction and want them to say how kind you have been. Muslims when we give to charity aren’t asking for anyone to look at us-but to Allah. We say this is our duty, not to get people to like us or be our friend—we are formal in this regard, as we tell people we won’t be there for you on the Day of Judgement .
    5. We have had a lot of Christians say to Muslims, that they were created more than to pray-but to do what?? Even the Jehovah witnesses believer that a select number will be I n Heaven ruling over people-this is bizarre and clearly self-serving. We are not running anything, we don’t run the planets the winds and people’s lives.
    6. The jews used to treat Prophets badly-they even go so far as saying they need to test if someone is really a Prophet-how are they going to test one?? Here they don’t accept on average anyone who accepts God. If anyone says they believer in Allah, the Day of Judgement, Paradise and Hell -then they have my respect-but here even though people knew the Prophets were the best of the people -they still didn’t want to accept Prophets as they were telling everyone else to repent-just as Prophet Jesus peace be upon him and Prophet Moses peace be upon him-Allah sent the signs even to tell Pharoah to repent. The other religions are made up by the help of Satan.
    7. The Christians say we don’t believe in the same God, so what are they saying that the Prophet Moses peace be upon him isn’t the same as their Prophet who spoke to Phaorah?? The Prophet Noah pace be upon him is a different one to their Prophet who build the ark?? No Prophet ever said that Allah was a trinity or one of two etc-if it was that important, he would have said so. All the Prophets have warned of the coming of the Dajjal (the anti-christ)
    8. Allah cannot have any children-how can they keep their own thoughts hidden?? How can there be truly another God if he needs to be created?? Allah is the Creator, the All-Knowing and All-Hearing, All-Seeing. He cannot die as there is nothing that can consume him. He didn’t have a son and to say he did is utter idolatry. Where people wish to worship just as Christians and Atheists do (to look at Buddhism etc) -when it is about them, instead of worshipping Allah.
    9. As the Muslims did what the Christians and the Jews didn’t do, listen to the Prophets and we did that with Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him -this is also where people gave up alcohol and Muslims sorted out their behaviour (something that the Christians and the Jews at the time couldn’t do), ours has been perfected as we took heed. This is also a huge thing of what is happening today-people learnt of Allah, the Day of Judgement and Paradise and Hell (were even Jews are now wishing to say that Hell may not be real and that suicide is not a sin atimes -unless someone is mentally deficient-but suicide is a huge sin as that is arrogance as your saying that the value of your life is based on something bad happening to you-you gave up everything that Allah has given you because something or someone has committed evil-no one’s sins is huge enough to blot out the sun, it doesn’t define your life). This is where if you wished to live for 50, 100, 200 years etc, the only way you can live is by hearing the message of Islam-as Allah provides a fair test. Nothing can change that. The issue today is whilst they were told, they were increasing their sins, passing marriage laws for homosexuality, transgender etc- you are not that important that you think you can continue. People say they will recover like those in the Great depression and the World wars-I don’t know why they keep going back to that, as they didn’t openly accept bad things. Even you lie about living as you want-when research has already indicated, high mental health issues and youth problems-it hasn’t been better for females when they are still doing a lot of the work and more to get a job as well as raising children -they are not all doing that by choice. Suicide happening even on occasions that someone was bullying them over social media, people having sexual transmitted diseases -here you still going on about doing what you want -when even Science to understand sexually transmitted diseases have to compare groups of people who don’t have more than one partner -so they compare health around the world.
    10. Anything goes attitude -anything that makes people happy, leave them to it. Does that mean no ones values is important that they should for example accept transgender?? There emotions are not important, just as those who identify with being an animal, or want to go through plastic surgery to have large backsides. You keep on teaching children It is important to do whatever makes you happy -this is not making people more happy. They are not more important to the Prophets, we would never take their word over the Prophets. How are you better than Prophet Jesus, Muhammad, Ibrahim, Moses, David, Solomon peace be upon them etc??
    11. The atheists are fools, they are led to believe that they are “cultured” by just going around the world and trying anything, that not taking a side makes them be deemed as more better, that they are intelligent or nicer people -far from it. Please think that a lot of people are uncomfortable of standing up to help someone in the workplace-you are scared, and not willing to help as much people as you think you would in general. You lie to the Muslims that you are more free, but are far from it. Now you have cancel culture and more restricted.
    12. This is where when the Atheists dies and the 2 angels come to question him, he will not know how to answer-all of his arrogance of thinking he doesn’t need to stand up for anything, agree with whatever make you happy, your own soul is stupid. That your own wouldn’t even agree with Allah.
    13. You claim that you have done things that would make Allah agree with you -arrogance as doesn’t matter what good deeds people do, they will go to Hell if they didn’t accept Allah. Here, they do good deeds to be loved by people, so why would Allah reward you? As you didn’t’ look towards his reward in the first place, you wanted to make a big deal of yourself or of others then go and seek their help on the Day of Judgement-but you will get none and no one can help you. This is where care and love is not the same as a believer, were we accept that we are entrusted with children and providing to charity solely looking towards Allah to be pleased with us. This is again why the Muslims seem more formal, as we are not wasting people’s time, just as you would do if you were just telling people to sit and talk and have whatever good time you deem fit-people are not here to entertain you. This is why Muslims frown on those wasting people’s time, no actor or singer of yours etc, is gong to care about what they did in this world. It is not boring to pray to Allah -for people to say it is restrictive, more than ever just shows how childish level they are, thinking everything is about their vain desires. What are you left to teach your children?? What your favourite sone or movie used to be??
    14. How can the Christians say Prophet Jesus peace be upon him is their saviour-he did not create the worlds, is not All-Hearing, All-Seeing. Allah is the Creator of the Worlds, Master of the Day of Judgement -he is not just a stage builder and behind-how on earth you can tell people to ignore the Lord who created everything and worship a Prophet who was born in this world instead? Are we Muslims being criticised for worshipping the Creator?? Islam has done what the Christians and Jews couldn’t do pass the message to the rest of the world-that started more after the wars-here Allah is Wise. Your not going to get another Prophet-Prophet Jesus peace be upon him will be coming back when all these countries are down-only remnants remaining. This is your best shot to repent if you don’t, there isn’t anything else That’s were all the laws and people increasing new ways of being wrongdoers-you are not that important that Allah needs to keep on giving you more time-climate change issues is actually Allah warning people. You are not in a comfortable position, if we Muslims are concerned, who the hell are you not to be??


    There are plenty that I can go over, but I hope that it will be of benefit to anyone who reads this. I don’t always go online. I do re-iterate though, if you don’t accept God, wonder why your lying and portraying a carefree attitude when people are generally worried about the future, so why aren’t you teaching stuff of the economy and what people should be doing to help themselves immediately. We as Muslims now where we stand, whatever happens is a test, but if you don’t accept it, than your going to find it even more difficult with what -as far as I’m aware from a lot of economist-if there is an optimistic outlook please note it down. Wrongdoers always believer that things are going to continue anyway-and I think the only confidence that anyone has is this-that they think things will always continue. You don’t have to worry about space exploration-we humans ain’t going to be colonising and moving to other planets. But again, if you were so concerned, wouldn’t you be concentrating on helping your local community and the poor-this are serious difficult times, that Muslims have not asked for either -we do not wish for the Major signs of the Day of Judgement-only a fool would pray for such a thing, it is the toughest test. You are already full of indignation of accepting Allah, how are you going to accept was will be happening?? The Governments are just judging things by if anyone will stop them-but no one needs to do anything, as our tests will change to the Major Signs of the Day of Judgement -no one can change that. Whatever happens, is out of our hands. We are also worried as Muslims, if you don’t believer in Allah, then surely though you don’t have to lie and just say you going to live a good life be honest with yourself and other people-if your denying where countries are at (doesn’t matter which), and your denying these facts as well. The problems are much (regardless if someone wanted to build their version of utopia (regardless of conspiracy theories etc), you can’t move away from Islam and being taught. You will come to realise either in this world or the next, that you only had the benefit of this internet technology as the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him arrived in this world and Islam message spread-it wouldn’t be a fair test without it.
    Last edited by Muhammad; 03-23-2022 at 02:01 PM. Reason: Formatting of quotes edited for clarification
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    Re: Where can I get real answers?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Ümit View Post
    If you are looking for scientific proof for the existence of God, you will never be able to find it.
    No, I'm not looking for scientific proof. I said before (on another thread) that a direct message from God to multiple people would be the perfect proof.
    This message could never be proven scientifically but how could you refute multiple accounts giving the same story.
    format_quote Originally Posted by Ümit View Post
    about your unanswered questions.ehm...it may be that we are not expert enough for you to answer all questions. It may be that the answer is part of the hidden and we are not allowed to know the answer for reasons.Meanings of verses in the Quraan can be really deep, so we may not be able to understand everything.
    format_quote Originally Posted by Muhammad View Post
    Are there any particular questions which you think we might be able to help with?
    format_quote Originally Posted by Ümit View Post
    You can always come here and ask your questions. We would still be happy to help you out, or we will search with you for answers.
    Here is the problem: My questions sound islamophobic to regular Muslims.Why? Because in order to investigate God existence I don't know any better way than findingerrors in the scriptures that in my mind disqualify them as being authentic words of God.
    By finding those errors I am saying Allah is false and Muhammad created the whole thing.
    Any Muslim is going to defend their religion beyond facts,logic and common sense.
    So in fact we are not going to discuss the facts objectively but we are going to try to impose our opposite views on each other.
    That is the reason I try to limit my questions to only those I believe I can get a reasonable answer and not falling into who's beliefs are stronger or make more sense.I do appreciate all the answers.
    format_quote Originally Posted by *Eric* View Post
    In response to Eddy's "None of those facts, logic and common sense has yet revealed the existence of God to me."
    Yet there is no conclusive evidence to show that the universe and life started purely by natural causes. If you demand proof for the existence of God; it would be more truthful to demand the same level of proof for a natural creation without God.
    I don't demand proof, I look for proof in order to believe.That applies to both, God existence and natural evolution.
    We have theories about natural evolution and we have faith about the existence of God. None of them can be proven at the moment.
    format_quote Originally Posted by Sunshineday View Post
    If you spent already years, I don’t understand why your saying the basic stuff – like post 20, is it a test, and saying your morals don’t need to come from Allah and post 13 where you said I’ll keep enjoying life.
    format_quote Originally Posted by Sunshineday View Post
    2. Evolution is a lie- all the cells can’t organise themselves and say you be the brain
    Then how do you explain the evolution of "Covid 19 virus"?
    It doesn't have a brain nor intelligence but it keeps mutating and adjusting to the environment at a very rapid time right in front of us.Why can't the rest of the universe evolve in a similar way?
    It has been proven that it doesn't need a brain, a master plan nor an super intelligence.
    format_quote Originally Posted by Sunshineday View Post
    5. It is shown by how many studies that Atheists are less likely to give to charity-why is this? As they are selfish.
    Do you have a link to any of those studies?
    There are studies that prove that most of the people in prison are theists.That tells you that atheist don't need morals coming from God to behave within society.

    A misconception about "Atheists"Atheists (unlike some people's opinions) don't have a "world view".Atheist are not all alike.
    Atheist is a person who doesn't believe in God, period.
    Some atheists believe in natural evolution and some atheist don't.
    Some atheists believe there is a possibility God exists and we call them "agnostics"
    Some atheists like chocolate, alcohol, cigarettes, halal food and some others don't.
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    Re: Where can I get real answers?

    First of all, like to say some nice emojis here.

    Moving on,
    Obviously Eddy here is whining about a supposed treatment-took the time to write and conveniently ignored and then going on about as if is has been in some sort of way not helped with his answer-just leave him to it. But I would highlight a few things-look how quickly he uses Covid-red flag-he knows it is a controversial issue, no one understand how it came about, but no one can mess about with Allah's creation except by Allah's leave. THis is where Satan stated-in the Quran he will get people to mess about with creation. That doesn't change the fact there is no way that we just came about we had to be created.

    Also another red flag-is why can't this individual just do a simple web search regarding charity work?? It doesn't take long does it, this has always come up a few times he is one of them:

    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...charity-study/

    I also like to highlight this liar's position:

    He wishes as immature people do, have people to bounce off-so they need to find people mature to do that-to be rebellious -well think you should grow up. He is a few other things regarding Atheists too (hopefully you won’t have trouble researching the following information::

    1. If you believed this was your only life-then it is RUBBISH, how on earth are they not sorting out, that they are:
    a. Printing money-getting people to borrow and asking them to pay back what is essentially nothing
    b. That they are asking people to spend 25 yeas or more to pay mortgages
    c. That retirement age is only increasing -so people working long hours, have to work longer and if they don’t die, get to take a bit of pay out of a pension-but there is real pension poverty.
    d. Now inflation has increased -which is were people’s spending power has gone down-making them go more in debt with high cost of living
    e. All wars just for greed- like the petrodollar-for countries to buy oil, they need to pay in US dollars and to get US dollars, they had to at part sell goods to the US for a paper that is essentially worthless and then it allows them to buy oil and US receives goods- for just printing money!! This is why they say Iraq was invaded as Saddam Hussain said he would be moving away from the dollar. Even Saudi Arabia did that, you can bet your dollar, the west would wish to invade it!
    f. Atheists have proven themselves to be liars-after all their own Governments are doing-they ignore that and just go after Muslims-but don’t worry, we understand why, there is less fun speaking to other evil people, you can’t be rebellious to them as they are evil. They need to keep it alive this image to live on as they are essentially immature.
    g. Why are not Atheists enraged-some economists have said pay should go up by minimum to 15 dollars an hour. The rich are getting richer and all they want is people to breed to pay taxes-and the Atheists are enraged to the Muslims?? What is this??
    h. Western countries are not more likely to live with their parents.
    i. If this is your only life in this world Eddy-then go back and IMPROVE it not only for yourself for everyone else-has they are MASSIVELY cheated on.


    A few fun facts about some atheists -it is important, as they essentially spend a lot of time learning from the TV (unfortunately for the rest of us- that probably explains that they get upset when they don’t get the reaction they want-rather than meaningful conversation-which is what has clearly happened with Eddy)
    1. When House a popular medical TV drama was made (character known for atheist views), he took a drug to supposedly deal with his condition-this drug went up-so quite a number of atheists wanted to emulate him.
    2. When Aliens the horror movie included some different aliens who are called Engineers (where one comes to Earth and drops his blood and that is how humans are created), so atheists now say this is how we are created, not by Allah, but by another Alien. (we already accept the belief in Aliens -the Jinn are by definition Alien as they are not human-or of this particular paralllal world).
    3. When the famous 2001 Odyssey was aired, it was bizarre as a being turning into some kind of idol. Including a baby being born in one of the moons of Jupiter
    4. In Star Trek Deep Space Nine, they covered wormhole Prophets -who were Aliens-but something to do with the planet but were rather clueless on basic matters.
    5. Also in Star Trek, a character of Q-immortal being who can manipulate stuff.
    6. Sheldon is probably popular as it is the grown up Atheists dream come true, to be somewhat of a know it all-this is the position they crave, were they expect people to treat them as the centre of attention. (not much about getting along with people, caring)

    So as above, which has been mentioned by even non-Muslims, their search for Aliens is a replacement of believing in Allah-they need to have that higher power.

    Atheists say they care and have morals but what about:

    1. Wish to take other people’s organs (not accepted by all Muslims-you don’t need someone else’s organs to pass your test).
    2. That they want to do what they want-but then they want other people to be pregnant with the babies (surrogacy is not acceptable-I don’t know why people use the Prophet Ibrahim peace be upon him, has Hager did not give up her child).
    3. Having someone’s sperm -even though you have nothing to do with them is seen as kindness-here there is no kindness it is sickening of those that don’t forbid evil and enjoin what is good-people look towards getting more attention from one another.
    4. There is no respect and he talks about morals moving onto more morals:

    Has it is about whatever makes people happy:

    1. wish to turn bodies into ashes and then tattoo them in their skin to say they are apart of their lives-so they are apart of your life in your sexual relations, when you go to the toilet etc
    2. Turned a grave into a playpit so they can feel close to someone
    3. Taken a body out to take it on a ride on a motorcycle
    4. Do cosmetic surgery -waste resources-just because someone is willing doesn’t mean you should-even died having to enlarge their backsides

    Frankly what I am saying is if the Muslims did all this, then the Atheists would be using those to make fun out of-we don’t’ find it funny, I’m not laughing, it is serious and crazy. Your not in control, it is a failure

    There was an article I read a few years ago, of someone saying they think they now need to use religious people to help the homeless as they can do it better-here they cause the problems of spoiling people, don’t forbid evil and enjoin what is good and expect people to walk behind the backsides of foolish people. In Islam charity if give the poor their due-not to give whatever they want-as then you would be foolish.

    They raise up their children badly -that people are afraid of saying anything incase of a backlash-they have this attitude who the hell do you think you are?? Even beating up old people as they simply were told to behave-here is what evil is-it is about disrespect.
    Eddy has proven he is a waste of time -so clearly there is no need to bother, I have spent substantial time and he even at one point makes sweeping statements of non-Muslims, -there are those that leave Islam and say nonsense-I even came across a female saying she was oppressed-even though she was allowed to take taxis to places, she was critical cause she …wait for it…. said that girls shouldn’t keep their legs apart when sitting-wow this is oppression.

    They have made it oppression for a Man to look after his wife and children. What the west is-which Allah in his infinite Mercy has allowed, their women do not have the same structure-as their males cannot forbid evil and enjoin what is good-so they were able to do things (but not something that a lot of them would do if they didn’t need to). The Government of course wanted women to work, to make more money, and then to make money to have taxes through childcare, just as they are getting taxes for looking after your grannies. Nowadays people are all over the place, they not making any sense-I am all for people having security and not feel threatened (amazing they don’t look at the appalling ways India women are treated), but a lot of females don’t feel safe unless they are in company -so all your doing is substituting a husband and asking others to do a job that a husband would (not saying all-but there are vocal about critical of Islam-but when putting things in place to make them secure-that’s all it leads to). It is brilliant that your women in your part of the world don’t have the same setup -as they can’t complain on the Day of Judgement that they were oppressed. We Muslim women have a lot of support system in place-not everybody hates their daughters etc. At the end of the day, Muslim man takes more responsibility than an Atheist, looking after family, parents, in laws, washing the dead, directly digging the grave, living with a larger amount of people and here, who are atheists to tell us how to live, when we do more than they do??

    At the end of they day Eddy, do yourself a favour-as above, if this is your only life as stated then go back and make it BETTER-don’t just think about yourself, as this is DISGRACEFUL, that people are being forced to plow on for a pittance of wages and support -IF THIS IS THEIR ONLY LIFE then make it BETTER-stop wasting time here. I’ll leave it and see you on the Day of Judgement.
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    Re: Where can I get real answers?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
    No, I'm not looking for scientific proof. I said before (on another thread) that a direct message from God to multiple people would be the perfect proof.
    This message could never be proven scientifically but how could you refute multiple accounts giving the same story.
    OK
    format_quote Originally Posted by Eddy View Post


    Here is the problem: My questions sound islamophobic to regular Muslims.Why? Because in order to investigate God existence I don't know any better way than findingerrors in the scriptures that in my mind disqualify them as being authentic words of God.
    By finding those errors I am saying Allah is false and Muhammad created the whole thing.
    You would be 100% correct if you could find any. But there isn't any. The things that you found as "errors" seem like errors because of your lack of information. You simply still miss a lot of Information to fully understand, so for you it looks like an error. Then you come to us and ask us.
    We try to explain that to you...but we also are only humans, and we do not know everything either. so, sometimes, you end up having questions which we cannot answer for you.
    It still do not mean those are errors...just that you asked us something very complicated (appearantly you are smarter than most of us on this field) and we cannot answer.

    But that is exactly what I meant in one of my last posts. those litte "errors" as you like to call...(in reality complicated questions who we cannot answer yet), does they really stand in your for not believing?
    if not, you should park those and hope that maybe in the future you can still get an answer.
    format_quote Originally Posted by Eddy View Post

    Any Muslim is going to defend their religion beyond facts,logic and common sense.
    So in fact we are not going to discuss the facts objectively but we are going to try to impose our opposite views on each other.
    no, facts and logic and common sense do still count and should be discussed.
    However, wenn we discussing things like thehereafter, heaven, hell etc, you should understand those are subjects beyond facts, logic etc. because those subjects are not like anything like the material world.
    format_quote Originally Posted by Eddy View Post

    That is the reason I try to limit my questions to only those I believe I can get a reasonable answer and not falling into who's beliefs are stronger or make more sense.I do appreciate all the answers.
    I don't demand proof, I look for proof in order to believe.That applies to both, God existence and natural evolution.
    We have theories about natural evolution and we have faith about the existence of God. None of them can be proven at the moment.
    None of them need to be proven. its not that if natural evolution turns out to be a fact, it proves that God doesn't exist or whatever.
    If natural evolution one day gets cold hard proven by science, it just means that God had used the method of natural evolution to create everything.
    format_quote Originally Posted by Eddy View Post

    Then how do you explain the evolution of "Covid 19 virus"?
    It doesn't have a brain nor intelligence but it keeps mutating and adjusting to the environment at a very rapid time right in front of us.Why can't the rest of the universe evolve in a similar way?
    It has been proven that it doesn't need a brain, a master plan nor an super intelligence.
    Explain to me, how is it proven that the evolution of Covid19 is not a master plan or super intelligence?
    How can you tell that God is not steering the evolution of Covid19 behind the scenes?

    again, Believing in God does not mean you stay away from science...it is an enrichment. enrichment of your knowledge because you use knowledge in combination with religion.
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    Re: Where can I get real answers?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Sunshineday View Post
    I would highlight a few things-look how quickly he uses Covid-red flag-he knows it is a controversial issue, no one understand how it came about
    It doesn't matter how it came about, the point is that it evolved on its own without the help of any out of space help.
    They didn't need a master plan, they didn't need any brain intelligence and we're still trying to figure how these things can do on their own what it would be a miracle for us humans to achieve in such a short time. You can call it NATURAL EVOLUTION even if it hurts your ego.

    I give you a few points on the atheists not giving to charities as much as theists.
    But then I have to take them all back if we consider that you are not giving from the kindness of your heart but just because you are obeying your God and you're afraid of hell fire more than what a few dollars can do for your earthly comforts.

    format_quote Originally Posted by Sunshineday View Post
    Atheists have proven themselves to be liars-after all their own Governments are doing-they ignore that and just go after Muslims-but don’t worry, we understand why, there is less fun speaking to other evil people, you can’t be rebellious to them as they are evil.
    Wow, I don't know where to begin, do we atheists have governments?
    Do you consider the US to be an atheist country?
    I know it is secular (meaning: the government is separated from religions) but do you realize the official motto of the United States is "In God we Trust".
    That doesn't sound too atheist to me.
    format_quote Originally Posted by Sunshineday View Post
    Why are not Atheists enraged-some economists have said pay should go up by minimum to 15 dollars an hour.
    I don't know where you get your information but I suggest you do a 180 degree turn and start seeing things as they are.
    I already told you, Atheists don't have a "WORLD VIEW", atheists are just regular people.
    There are no atheists countries, no atheists way of thinking, no atheists exclusive morals, no atheists specific values, no atheists race, no atheists ethnic groups.
    Do you get it?You cannot generalize and box atheists into a pre-determine modus operandi.(way of behaving/acting/thinking/living).
    You are pre-judging atheists and some would call you a racist (using the same standards some Muslims use when somebody criticizes Islam).

    format_quote Originally Posted by Ümit View Post
    You would be 100% correct if you could find any. But there isn't any. The things that you found as "errors" seem like errors because of your lack of information. You simply still miss a lot of Information to fully understand, so for you it looks like an error. Then you come to us and ask us.We try to explain that to you...but we also are only humans, and we do not know everything either. so, sometimes, you end up having questions which we cannot answer for you.
    So you're saying that when I find an error and you can explain it then it is not an error.
    But if I find an error and you cannot explain it then it is still NOT an error because you still haven't found an explanation but you think there must be an explanation even if nobody knows how to explain it.
    Is that a failure of God communicating or a failure of humans not understanding God or a plain human error or a human misinterpretation of an event?
    What prevents me from being totally honest and believe what I'm reading without any bias nor agendas?When I read the Quran and see many different translations I clearly understand the meaning but all of a sudden I read the Tafsir and then the meaning seems to change into many different meanings depending on who is doing the interpretation.
    Isn't that crazy?
    Is that text meaning manipulation?
    Who is the authority in the muslim world?
    The scholars contradict themselves.
    format_quote Originally Posted by Ümit View Post
    None of them need to be proven. its not that if natural evolution turns out to be a fact, it proves that God doesn't exist or whatever.If natural evolution one day gets cold hard proven by science, it just means that God had used the method of natural evolution to create everything.
    That is very nice said but it is just a speculation without any base and there's nothing anywhere that can point to that to be truth except (of course) "blind faith', and nobody likes those words.
    format_quote Originally Posted by Ümit View Post
    Explain to me, how is it proven that the evolution of Covid19 is not a master plan or super intelligence?How can you tell that God is not steering the evolution of Covid19 behind the scenes?
    Unfortunately I cannot prove that and at the moment nobody can but the fact remains that it has been categorically proven by science right at this precise moment that those viruses don't have the ability in them to make decisions nor think of a master plan of attack.
    It is plain and simple NATURAL EVOLUTION.
    Hopefully God is behind all this but how would we know?
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    Re: Where can I get real answers?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
    I don't demand proof, I look for proof in order to believe.That applies to both, God existence and natural evolution.
    We have theories about natural evolution and we have faith about the existence of God. None of them can be proven at the moment.

    God created everything according to its kind, then natural selection is a good explanation to show how life evolved once life was created. The problem with evolution is when we look at life today, then try and extrapolate back a few billion years to single cell life. How were all the complexities of life added without any help from God?

    Describe an evolutionary path where two bones can join together and add movement. If a ligament is not joined to both bones, it serves no function, so natural selection would have nothing to work with. If muscles and tendons are not attached at both ends, they serve no purpose, and would be rejected by natural selection. If the two bones are just flopping around and don't add to mobility, natural selection would reject them. You need one set of muscles and tendons to move bones in one direction, you need an opposing set to move them back again. The brain and nervous system would also have to evolve to direct movement. If any of these are missing there will be no intentional movement and give no advantage. On the contrary, natural selection might reject these things like an unwanted tumour.

    There are many species with at least 500 muscles, 200 bones, 500 ligaments and 1000 tendons. Bones ligaments, muscles and tendons would need thousands of generations to evolve, natural selection would have thousands of opportunities to reject them every time they serve no purpose. They would only serve a purpose if they can become dominant in a population.
    However life came to be, or however life may have evolved; I just see it as a total impossibility without God directing it.

    In the spirit of searching for a greatest meaning of 'One God'
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    Re: Where can I get real answers?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
    It doesn't matter how it came about, the point is that it evolved on its own without the help of any out of space help.
    They didn't need a master plan, they didn't need any brain intelligence and we're still trying to figure how these things can do on their own what it would be a miracle for us humans to achieve in such a short time. You can call it NATURAL EVOLUTION even if it hurts your ego.
    And we are telling you, it is not ON THEIR OWN. we believe that a cell clones itself because God wants it to do that. A virus mutates, because God wants it to do that. So the whole natural evolution is a part of the master plan. Neither we can prove that to you, nor you can prove to us otherwise...it basically comes to blind faith as you put it.

    Let me put it differently to you.
    In science, if you stumble upon something extraordinary, and you have no clue about what is happening....you also start in the dark, thinking "it might be this or that" and you start with possible ideas and theories and tests to reproduce that phemonemah...and as you progress in that process, you rule out your dumb ideas based on the tests you've done , improve or modify ald idea's and slowly, one day you will fully understand it.

    But you started out with flind faith.

    Religion is like that. it is the clue given to you when you are in the dark. you cannot shed light into that darkness because it is beyond the limits of science.
    So you either have this "blind faith" or totally black.
    format_quote Originally Posted by Eddy View Post

    So you're saying that when I find an error and you can explain it then it is not an error.
    But if I find an error and you cannot explain it then it is still NOT an error because you still haven't found an explanation but you think there must be an explanation even if nobody knows how to explain it.
    the way you put it sounds very very disturbing.
    But yeah thats pretty much it.
    look at it this way.
    You can compare it like taking advise from your loving parents.
    a loving parent always wants the best for his/her child...so knowing that, whenever he/she gives you a rule or decides something (whether you understand the reason or not) as a understanding wise child you obey because you know they must have a good reason for that.

    So if you are intelligent enough, you may look for that reason or just ask your parents about it...or you just trust them and just follow thier rules...it is up to you.

    In Islam basically every rule has a reason. it either is bad for you physically or psychologically, bad for the community, bad economically, bad for animals or whatever.
    You can either search for the reason or you can just accept it...but either way, you will always be on the safe side if you follow those rules.

    format_quote Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
    Is that a failure of God communicating or a failure of humans not understanding God or a plain human error or a human misinterpretation of an event?
    not a failure. it is basically the inevitable consequence of us limited humans trying to grasp some of the wisdom of the infinite intelligent being.
    format_quote Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
    What prevents me from being totally honest and believe what I'm reading without any bias nor agendas?When I read the Quran and see many different translations I clearly understand the meaning but all of a sudden I read the Tafsir and then the meaning seems to change into many different meanings depending on who is doing the interpretation.
    Isn't that crazy?
    that is not true. you can compare the Tafsirs with each other, they will all point in the same direction. Translations however are less accurate, because it is just a translation...and without the background information, there is no way you can fully understand a verse just by reading the translation.
    format_quote Originally Posted by Eddy View Post

    Is that text meaning manipulation?
    Who is the authority in the muslim world?
    no manipulation. just reasoning and common sense.
    format_quote Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
    The scholars contradict themselves.
    scholars may contradict themselves.
    let me elaborate. Scholars are also just humans, so they can be wrong.
    We assume that scholars are wise people who use their wisdom for the truth, so they wont say deliberately anything wrong.
    That however doesn't mean they are never wrong.

    the ruling is like this:
    - at first, you are not bound to the advise of a scholar, so if you do not agree, then you might seek the advise of another one (a second or even a third opinion)
    - If you choose to follow the advise of the scholar, and it turns out to be totally wrong, then you wont be blamed for that, because you couldn't possible know it was wrong.
    - The scholar who deliberately gives wrong advise to people will be punished terribly, because they have led a lot of people astray
    - The scholar who gave wrong advise to people due to an honest mistake because of whatever reason will not be blamed, because he didn't mean to lead people astray.

    So, we take into account that scholars can contradict each other, and we tend to follow the advise of the scholar who sounds the safest for us.
    format_quote Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
    That is very nice said but it is just a speculation without any base and there's nothing anywhere that can point to that to be truth except (of course) "blind faith', and nobody likes those words.
    That is exactly what I am saying to you all the time. There is no way proving or disproving the existence of God. you must take the jump if you want to be saved. (wrong metaphor actually, because taking the jump in this case means nothing dangerous, because you will lose nothing if it turns out to be false.)
    format_quote Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
    Unfortunately I cannot prove that and at the moment nobody can but the fact remains that it has been categorically proven by science right at this precise moment that those viruses don't have the ability in them to make decisions nor think of a master plan of attack.
    categorically proven? is that a word?
    again, nothing about it can be proven. They do not need to make decisions, they do not need to think. They just do as they are told, just like the wind is blowing in the direction it is told, and the cloud is drifting in the direction it is told...and every other thing out there, big or small, that appears to happen "on its own".
    Nothing happens on its own, but because God tells it to.
    format_quote Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
    It is plain and simple NATURAL EVOLUTION.
    Hopefully God is behind all this but how would we know?
    We trust in God.
    We know, because:
    - life is too perfect than to have existed on its own out of a primordial soup.
    The chances of that are literally zero. you may think if you wait long enough, then eventually it will happen....well 14 billion years is still way too short to let zero chance happen.
    glass is basically just molten sand
    the chance of a marmelade glass perfectly shaped on its own out there in the desert is much bigger. did anyone find any? all the material are there the whole time, conditions are there. one little lightning and voila, you have molten sand...why doesn't it happen?

    I have never heard that archeologs never found pieces of pottery that formed on their own. Why not? if they found a piece of pottery, it always belonged to some sort of ancient civilization?
    material is there, conditions are there since ages...why does that never happen?
    Because from chaos does not come order.

    We people are bad in estimating chances. That is why the lottery is such an atempting trap for a lot of people who think they can make easy money. we know, the chances are very small, but the thought, "what if" still convinces us to gamble. and every time we lose, but we never learn.

    - Science still has no answer how life existed. how come some dead material suddenly lives? according to science, it started with simple enzymes which could hardly be called alive, and from that, more complicated life forms evolved.
    well that is nice, but the step between "infinitely small" and "zero" is still "infinitely big"
    so something can not be "hardly alive" if it was dead once...that hardly alive must come from something.

    I could think of a dozen more reasons why I know that God exists, but let us save that for another discussion.
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    Re: Where can I get real answers?

    format_quote Originally Posted by *charisma* View Post
    The problem with evolution is when we look at life today, then try and extrapolate back a few billion years to single cell life. How were all the complexities of life added without any help from God?
    Random NATURAL trial and error and NATURAL selection. Obviously I cannot describe in detail how that happens just as you cannot describe in detail how God works.
    In your case it doesn't matter how God does it (you just believe by having faith). In my case, I first need to find out god exists, until then I can only believe in Natural evolution even if I cannot explain it.
    format_quote Originally Posted by Ümit View Post
    we are telling you, it is not ON THEIR OWN. we believe that a cell clones itself because God wants it to do that.
    That is the dilemma. It is easy for you (theists) to just believe God did it but we (atheists/agnostics) need a more tangible explanation, doesn't have to be scientific but something.
    format_quote Originally Posted by Ümit View Post
    Religion is like that. it is the clue given to you when you are in the dark. you cannot shed light into that darkness because it is beyond the limits of science. So you either have this "blind faith" or totally black.
    As I said from the beginning, I'm not here to fall into "blind faith". I could have done that on my own. I'm here because I was told Islam is not just "blind faith".
    Have you already forgotten about that? What happened to Islam is logical and it all makes sense in Islam. Blind faith and logic don't necessarily go along.
    format_quote Originally Posted by Ümit View Post
    In Islam basically every rule has a reason. it either is bad for you physically or psychologically, bad for the community, bad economically, bad for animals or whatever. You can either search for the reason or you can just accept it...but either way, you will always be on the safe side if you follow those rules.
    Again that seems to be the reality and common ground of all religions, at the end is all about surrender, accept it even if you're not sure it is right or wrong, truth or false.
    format_quote Originally Posted by Ümit View Post
    That is exactly what I am saying to you all the time. There is no way proving or disproving the existence of God. you must take the jump if you want to be saved. (wrong metaphor actually, because taking the jump in this case means nothing dangerous, because you will lose nothing if it turns out to be false.)
    That encapsulate the whole thing, wise words.
    That leaves me in such a hole of space with unanswered questions.
    Thanks for your help.
    At the end is all about me, it's my decision,
    I had hoped to get better reasons but that would never be the case.
    It's time to reflect and think.
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    Re: Where can I get real answers?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
    Random NATURAL trial and error and NATURAL selection. Obviously I cannot describe in detail how that happens just as you cannot describe in detail how God works.
    exactly...thanks for not trying to be a smartpants. of course we do not expect you to explain in detail how natural selection works. (assumed that you are not a biologist per chance). The same way, neither do we know everything about religion.
    format_quote Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
    In your case it doesn't matter how God does it (you just believe by having faith). In my case, I first need to find out god exists, until then I can only believe in Natural evolution even if I cannot explain it.
    Of course it does matter how God does it...it just doesn't affect our faith in God. Thats not the same.
    I'm sorry...I am not trying to attack you, but you're somehow willing to have blind faith in natural selection but not in God? or is it not blind faith when we are talking about natural selection?

    I do understand what you are saying though...because we are saying the same thing the whole time to you, but unfortunately you do not see the similarity here.

    format_quote Originally Posted by Eddy View Post

    That is the dilemma. It is easy for you (theists) to just believe God did it but we (atheists/agnostics) need a more tangible explanation, doesn't have to be scientific but something.
    Something not scientific is just as much as "a belief" as all the other religions out there.
    Besides, you are still stuck on "either this or that" mode. It's not that we are satisfied with the religious explanation...we too are looking for the more tangible explanation.

    Q: Why does it rain?
    A: Because that is how God wanted it (period)

    Of course we understand that is not a satisfying answer. And of course we try to find a more tangible answer. but as long as that tangible answer is not available, we can say, "Because its Gods will".
    Besides, even wenn a tangible answer is known, that doesn't make the answer "Because its Gods will" wrong.

    format_quote Originally Posted by Eddy View Post

    As I said from the beginning, I'm not here to fall into "blind faith". I could have done that on my own. I'm here because I was told Islam is not just "blind faith".
    Have you already forgotten about that? What happened to Islam is logical and it all makes sense in Islam.
    No, I have not forgotten about it. You are not seeing the logic.
    format_quote Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
    Blind faith and logic don't necessarily go along.
    I only partially agree.

    If a logic explanation exists, then blind faith is wrong, I agree on that.
    However, if there is NOT a logic explanation, then the most tangible "blind faith" becomes the best thing to steer with.

    You cannot see if there is no light dude. in that case you stretch your arms, turn around and hope you bump into something you recognize and gives you direction.
    or if someone shines a small light on you, then you can orientate on that.

    imagine three categories of people:

    category 1:
    I am sure you know the Flat Earth society. They reject the proven tangible answer and accept blind faith and are being stubborn about it.

    category 2:
    Muslims are not like that. We EMBRACE that tangible answer if there is one, and if there is no tangible answer, at least we have something to give us direction.
    Do you see the difference?

    category 3:
    People like you. sitting in the dark because no tangible answer is available and refusing anything else because obviously drifting around meaningless is better than having a possible direction even though not tangible.
    format_quote Originally Posted by Eddy View Post

    Again that seems to be the reality and common ground of all religions, at the end is all about surrender, accept it even if you're not sure it is right or wrong, truth or false.
    I suppose you understood the metaphor I gave you about accepting advise from your loving parents. I do not have to explain it any further I suppose.
    format_quote Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
    That encapsulate the whole thing, wise words.
    That leaves me in such a hole of space with unanswered questions.
    Thanks for your help.
    No. You are right now in such a hole of space with unanswered questions. Islaam gives answer to some of those questions...which is much better than your initial situation. (if you want to see it like that)
    format_quote Originally Posted by Eddy View Post

    At the end is all about me, it's my decision,
    I had hoped to get better reasons but that would never be the case.
    It's time to reflect and think.
    It's your decision. I've tried my best to patiently answer all your questions in the best possible way.

    It's time to reflect and think...but if you decide not the give up, then neither will we give up on you.

    Good luck!!
    Last edited by Ümit; 03-28-2022 at 10:49 AM.
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    Re: Where can I get real answers?

    Hello Eddy,

    format_quote Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
    For any practical reason that test is useless (unless I misunderstood the whole thing).
    One way in which we can understand this incident, where God took a covenant from the progeny of Adam, is that it lead to an impact on human nature. The human being has a natural disposition prompting him to believe in God and affirm His Oneness. Islam complements the role of this natural disposition and provides details that could not be reached independently. Thus, when a person practices Islam in its totality, his outer actions come into harmony with the very nature in which God created man's inner being.

    None of those facts, logic and common sense has yet revealed the existence of God to me.
    One of the key aspects that point to the existence of God is the signs in God's creation: the universe around us and even our own selves. Whoever ponders over the things that exist, their various shapes, colours, behaviour, benefits and ecological roles, then he will realise they all point to the existence of a Creator full of wisdom, knowledge, perfection and majesty. Everything around us has a purpose and meaning and everything works together in a perfect system; all of this could not come about by mere chance. A couple of specific examples have been mentioned earlier in this thread regarding the creation of the eye and the creation of muscles and tendons, but it seems you haven't responded to those.

    Because in order to investigate God existence I don't know any better way than findingerrors in the scriptures that in my mind disqualify them as being authentic words of God.
    We now come to another source of evidence for not only the existence of God but the validity of Islam, which is the Qur'an. But it should be pointed out that to truly benefit from something, one must have the correct approach. One should read the Qur'an with the sincere aim to be guided by it. If you immediately decide there are 'errors' that need finding, as non-Muslim orientalists like to do, then this will not be conducive to attaining that precious guidance from the Qur'an.

    As for some of the unique features of the Qur'an, here follows a summary posted by another member:

    1. The Power of the Qur'anic Message:
    -it is universal, unrestricted by time and applicable to any nation/culture. The Qur'an is by far the most widely followed and acted-upon book in the world. As for the Bible, most Christians follow the Church over the Bible, and each denomination has its own bible anyway. The fact that there is no other book in the world that forms the constitution of the lives of billions of followers is itself a sign.
    -it is practical and logical, it can be established practically in society and is logically able to address the fundamental questions relating to all aspects of our universe.
    -it is comprehensive, addressing all fundamental sectors of human life, be it spritual, physical, mental, social/societal, politcal, environmental, economic, etc.
    -it is natural, in concordance with a person's nature and what they feel deep inside to be the truth.
    -it is clear and consistent, free of the changes in worldview and understanding that dominate the works of human beings.
    -it is deep, having provoked thousands upon thousands of volumes of exegesis, expounding upon its meaning and revealing fascinating details that many people otherwise miss in their reading of the Qur'an.
    2. The Power of the Qur'anic Style:
    -it is Interactive, the text seems alive as it responds to the very questions that arise in one's mind at that moment. It speaks to the reader and delivers specific yet universal advice.
    -it is Inerrant, free from contradictons and discrepancies, or other errors that would normally be found in the works of human beings.
    -it is Memorizable; the Qur'an is the only book in the world which is continuously being memorized by millions of people and recited daily. No other book has been committed to memory by so many followers, as though it fits in one's mind as a key in a lock.
    -its Language, the Qur'anic arabic is a stunning miracle in itself, its style is powerful and its recitation is melodious. More info: Here, Here, Here.
    3. The Power of the Qur'anic Text:
    -it is Preserved, even after fourteen and a half centuries, the Qur'an is recited today exactly as it was first revealed. Thus it was free of the tampering that befell other religious scriptures.
    -its other Remarkable features; many Muslims find a striking concordance between many Qur'anic statements and established scientific truths, which could not have been known by any normal human being 14 centuries ago. (see here). Many Muslims have also found the Qur'anic perfection extends even to various mathematical miracles within the text (see here for discussion of word repetitions). As well, there are the Qur'anic Prophecies.
    -its Authorship; the context in which the Qur'an was revealed leaves the reader with no other conclusion than the fact that it could only be the word of God.


    Here are some links which go into more detail regarding particular aspects:

    Miracles in general
    http://www.whyislam.org/submission/t...-of-the-quran/
    http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/
    http://www.islamicboard.com/quran/13...racle-god.html
    The Miracle and the Challenge of the Qur'an

    Challenge of the Qur'an:
    The Challenge of the Qur'an
    http://www.islamicboard.com/clarific...ml#post1281044
    http://www.islamicboard.com/quran/32986-challenge.html

    Literary excellence:
    http://www.islam21c.com/texts/203-an...e-of-the-quran
    http://www.theinimitablequran.com/index.html

    Preservation
    http://www.islamicboard.com/clarific...tml#post785930
    http://www.islamicboard.com/discover...n-changed.html

    Prophecies
    The amazing Quran - Prophecy of Romans
    History Proves the Accuracy of the Qur'an
    http://www.islamicboard.com/discover...ut-failed.html

    Scientific miracles
    http://www.islamreligion.com/category/33/
    http://www.islamicboard.com/health-s...les-quran.html
    Exploring Islam
    http://islampapers.com/embryology-in-the-quran/


    In addition to studying the Qur'an, you will find further evidence for the truth of Islam by studying the life of the Final Messenger, Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم. He was well-known to his own people to be a trustworthy and honest man. Moreover, he was someone who could not read or write, so how could an illiterate person bring something as magnificent as the Quran? The only rational conclusion is that the revelation he received was truly from God. His excellent example and profound teachings further testify to the fact that he was a Prophet of God.

    These are just some points for you to consider in your search for the truth. I hope you will research these issues with an open mind and turn to God with sincerity, asking Him to guide you.
    Where can I get real answers?



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