I love to listen to informal debates from Speaker's Corner videos.
These debates are between Muslim apologists and polemicists usually against Christians.
None of them are scholars so the information can be deceiving since they are more interested in winning an argument and defending their own religion than arriving at the truth.
There are topics that are always addressed over and over.
The age of marriage in Islam is one of them and after all these debates it is still not clear to me.
My understanding is that there is no age of marriage in Islam but a few conditions must be met in order for a marriage to be lawful under Islam.
The most important thing is the age of the woman and that is determined by her psychological state, I mean, is she mentally mature to get married?
Then is the physical maturity.
Is she physically developed into a woman or is she still a child?
How does Islam determine both of those?
Is it just the decision of her parents?
Is puberty a factor?
Where is the information?
In the the Quran or the Hadith?
I love to listen to informal debates from Speaker's Corner videos.
These debates are between Muslim apologists and polemicists usually against Christians.
None of them are scholars so the information can be deceiving since they are more interested in winning an argument and defending their own religion than arriving at the truth.
There are topics that are always addressed over and over.
The age of marriage in Islam is one of them and after all these debates it is still not clear to me.
My understanding is that there is no age of marriage in Islam but a few conditions must be met in order for a marriage to be lawful under Islam.
The most important thing is the age of the woman and that is determined by her psychological state, I mean, is she mentally mature to get married?
Then is the physical maturity.
Is she physically developed into a woman or is she still a child?
How does Islam determine both of those?
Is it just the decision of her parents?
Is puberty a factor?
Where is the information?
In the the Quran or the Hadith?
It is ideal to marry after puberty as per Islam. However according to today laws of local governments, the ideal marriage can be after completion of 18 years. And the boy should be able to earn something to sustain the family. The sooner the marriage, its better to avoid sins.
If I understood correctly when you said " it is Ideal to marry after puberty", that implies that although it is ideal, it is actually not mandatory under Islamic law to marry only after puberty, is that correct?
If I understood correctly when you said " it is Ideal to marry after puberty", that implies that although it is ideal, it is actually not mandatory under Islamic law to marry only after puberty, is that correct?
youd be surprised how lustful an 11 year old (or even 10 year old) boy can be. trust me, i was one. for my childhood friend no less. and while we're talking about it, don't girls get discrimminated against in islam for expressing their sexuality in the name of culture not islam? if someone is mature enough, let them marry. but in the modern age, someone like the 11 year old me or even 15 year old me or its middle eastern equivalent is often not ready to get married. and my personal take, its better to go to school, but if it gets in the way, and if cultural norms are present that take precedent over school (like the Meskhetian/ahiska turks who get their girls married at age 18, and if they dont by age 20 they're considered "oturarak" basically couch potatoes, no im not a meskhetian but i know some) let them marry. some days i wonder what direction my life wouldve taken if i had taken an apprentice at the age of 18, maybe 16 after a GED (here in the us you can get an exam instead of 4 years high school), and gotten married to lower my gaze and avoid haram and simping. im still struggling, pray for me brothers. yes, 16. why not let them get married at age 16 and judge them yet not judge a 16 year old single mother or father who made a bad decision? (as for me, im still trying to further my education, perhaps in medicine, because im learning to control myself)
If I understood correctly when you said " it is Ideal to marry after puberty", that implies that although it is ideal, it is actually not mandatory under Islamic law to marry only after puberty, is that correct?
His wording would imply that (I'm sure unintentionally), but no, that is not correct.
If I understood correctly when you said " it is Ideal to marry after puberty", that implies that although it is ideal, it is actually not mandatory under Islamic law to marry only after puberty, is that correct?
Please read the complete sentence
It is ideal to marry after puberty as per Islam. However, according to today's laws of local governments, the ideal marriage can be after the completion of 18 years.
The minimum age for marriage is puberty. It can be done anytime after that.
The minimum age for marriage is puberty. It can be done anytime after that.
Thank you so much for your clarification.
Now I'm gong crazy googling where are the scriptures that support what you're saying.
If any of you could be kind enough to provide a link I would certainly appreciate it.
The answer is no. One isn't allowed to marry before puberty.
format_quote Originally Posted by 404
His wording would imply that (I'm sure unintentionally), but no, that is not correct.
Your responses are appreciated but I am more interested in answers based on real instructions from Allah or prophet Mohammad (The Quran or the Hadith).Can you provide actual scriptures quotes?Your answers are based on what?
As for your women past the age of menstruation, in case you do not know, their waiting period is three months, and those who have not menstruated as well. As for those who are pregnant, their waiting period ends with delivery.1 And whoever is mindful of Allah, He will make their matters easy for them.
The Quran says that the waiting period to divorce for women who have not menstruated yet (that is puberty) is 3 months.
You can draw the conclusion that Allah allows marriage before puberty according to Quran 65:4
I cannot find in the Quran any verse indicating women are not allowed to marry before puberty.
Can you help me find any verse?
Where is the information?
In the the Quran or the Hadith?
There is a hadith narrated by Aisha (May Allah be Pleased with her) the wife of the Prophet (May Allah's Peace and Blessings be Upon Him)
Narrated `Aisha:
that the Prophet (ﷺ) married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that `Aisha remained with the Prophet (ﷺ) for nine years (i.e. till his death). (Bukhari)
Is puberty a factor?
A man can marry a girl before puberty but it is not consummated until she reaches puberty and is physically capable for that as that Hadith shows. Aisha (RadiAllahu Anha) said about herself that she had reached puberty by that time.
Is it just the decision of her parents?
In Islam every woman is accounted for. What I mean is every woman has a guardian (Wali) who is supposed to take care of her and protect her and her interests. For a girl, the one who would be this primarily is the father. The father therefore has to accept such an arrangement which in the case of the Prophet (Salalahu 'Alaihi wa Salaam) the father was Abu Bakr who was the closest friend and follower of Muhammed (Salalahu 'Alaihi wa Salaam) who of course accepted.
Please note that boys and girls mature much faster when brought up in harsher environments and Arabia was the harshest. They are able to cope with difficulties that the modern man or woman deems impossible. As for this modern age of ours, then so many adults (let alone children) are unable to cope with even the basic affairs of life and are incredibly immature due to the modern lifestyle/upbringing so I can see (to an extent) why some are shocked to hear of the young age of the wife of the Prophet (Salalahu 'Alaihi wa Salaam), but they should be to able to understand that this was perfectly normal not just for Arabs but the world over and that not everything is going to go according to modern sensibilities nor does it need to.
Please feel free to ask anymore questions. I hope that helps.
Is puberty a factor?
A man can marry a girl before puberty but it is not consummated until she reaches puberty and is physically capable for that as that Hadith shows. Aisha (RadiAllahu Anha) said about herself that she had reached puberty by that time.
Narrated `Aisha:
"I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me.
When Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me."
(The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for `Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fath-ul-Bari page 143, Vol.13)
حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدٌ، أَخْبَرَنَا أَبُو مُعَاوِيَةَ، حَدَّثَنَا هِشَامٌ، عَنْ أَبِيهِ، عَنْ عَائِشَةَ ـ رضى الله عنها ـ قَالَتْ كُنْتُ أَلْعَبُ بِالْبَنَاتِ عِنْدَ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم وَكَانَ لِي صَوَاحِبُ يَلْعَبْنَ مَعِي، فَكَانَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم إِذَا دَخَلَ يَتَقَمَّعْنَ مِنْهُ، فَيُسَرِّبُهُنَّ إِلَىَّ فَيَلْعَبْنَ مَعِي.
Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 6130
In-book reference : Book 78, Hadith 157
USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 8, Book 73, Hadith 151
It seems we have Hadith contradictions here. Can you show the complete Hadith with the complete reference on the Hadith you're talking about?
There is a hadith narrated by Aisha (May Allah be Pleased with her) the wife of the Prophet (May Allah's Peace and Blessings be Upon Him)
[FONT="]Narrated `Aisha: [/FONT] that the Prophet (ﷺ) married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that `Aisha remained with the Prophet (ﷺ) for nine years (i.e. till his death). (Bukhari)
A man can marry a girl before puberty but it is not consummated until she reaches puberty and is physically capable for that as that Hadith shows. Aisha (RadiAllahu Anha) said about herself that she had reached puberty by that time.
In Islam every woman is accounted for. What I mean is every woman has a guardian (Wali) who is supposed to take care of her and protect her and her interests. For a girl, the one who would be this primarily is the father. The father therefore has to accept such an arrangement which in the case of the Prophet (Salalahu 'Alaihi wa Salaam) the father was Abu Bakr who was the closest friend and follower of Muhammed (Salalahu 'Alaihi wa Salaam) who of course accepted.
Please note that boys and girls mature much faster when brought up in harsher environments and Arabia was the harshest. They are able to cope with difficulties that the modern man or woman deems impossible. As for this modern age of ours, then so many adults (let alone children) are unable to cope with even the basic affairs of life and are incredibly immature due to the modern lifestyle/upbringing so I can see (to an extent) why some are shocked to hear of the young age of the wife of the Prophet (Salalahu 'Alaihi wa Salaam), but they should be to able to understand that this was perfectly normal not just for Arabs but the world over and that not everything is going to go according to modern sensibilities nor does it need to.
Please feel free to ask anymore questions. I hope that helps.
Great post, I fully agree. I would say though that (many/most) girls and boys are maturing much later in these mollycoddled effeminate modern times due to being psychologically DUMBED DOWN, rather than the environment itself being "less harsher than Arabia of Aisha's time." It's more to do with the dumbed down infantile social environment they are subjected to. We are living in a globalist cultural-Marxist age-fixated tyranny which is rabidly and fanatically opposed to the enfranchisement and freedoms of children and youths to engage in things that the globalist liberal tyrants deem "adults only" (such as soldiering, marriage, sex, employment in the work force, etc). Physically and sexually speaking though, I don't think children today are developing any later than they did in olden times. All my daughters were sexually mature by age 8/9, but most certainly that WASN'T because I kept them well away from the toxic influences of the new matriarchalist globalist liberal tyranny (or being in the company of the masses of brain-dead zombies who blindly worship it's mindset and values).
Even more unfortunately it would appear that, not only just Westerners, but now even the majority of today's "Muslims" as well have been insidiously mindwashed by this treacherous western globalist tyranny, to the extent that they will quite arrogantly and shamelessly confront, attack, and altercate with those such as you and I who point out truths such as this! So I think it would be fair enough to say that most modern day Muslims subjected to the leftist tyrannical poisonous wokery of the west (and subsequently mentally succumbing to it) cannot be said to be genuine Muslims. They have strayed from the right path, either knowingly or obliviously.
I fully agree. I would say though that (many/most) girls and boys are maturing much later in these mollycoddled effeminate modern times due to being psychologically DUMBED DOWN
I agree with your point as well as mine. The dumbing down of the youth and masses is definitely a contributing factor to the great lack of maturity we see in general. Actually, I was referring to mental/psychological maturity more than physical maturity. Harsh environments breed men and women of considerable mental fortitude. Even in America, I remember in history class seeing a picture of boys who worked on the railroads. They looked like little men in their demeaner and dress even though they were only 9 or 10.
Growing up around family is also a major factor. In tribal Arabia, boys and girls grew up around all kinds of family members and observed all sorts of familial dealings. This is how children grow up to be socially competent. This is how they grow up to be able to shoulder the big responsibilities of family life early on.
@Eddy
It seems we have Hadith contradictions here.
No we don't. It doesn't say in that hadith that they had consummated the marriage yet.
It doesn't say in that hadith that they had consummated the marriage yet.
(78)Chapter: Consummation Of Marriage With A Girl Of Nine(78)باب الْبِنَاءِ بِابْنَةِ تِسْعٍ .
It was narrated that 'Aisha said:
"The Messenger of Allah married me when I was six, and consummated the marriage with me when I was nine, and I used to play with dolls."
أَخْبَرَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ آدَمَ، عَنْ عَبْدَةَ، عَنْ هِشَامٍ، عَنْ أَبِيهِ، عَنْ عَائِشَةَ، قَالَتْ تَزَوَّجَنِي رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم وَأَنَا بِنْتُ سِتٍّ وَدَخَلَ عَلَىَّ وَأَنَا بِنْتُ تِسْعِ سِنِينَ وَكُنْتُ أَلْعَبُ بِالْبَنَاتِ .
Grade: Sahih (Darussalam)
Reference : Sunan an-Nasa'i 3378
In-book reference : Book 26, Hadith 183
English translation : Vol. 4, Book 26, Hadith 3380
So we have Aisha saying she and the prophet consummated their marriage at age 9.
We already know that the prophet took Aisha to one of his houses at age 9 when she was still playing with dolls.
During the time she lived with the prophet she was still playing with dolls which was allowed to her only because she had not reached puberty.
Do we need to spell it to you?
During the time she lived with the prophet she was still playing with dolls which was allowed to her only because she had not reached puberty.
Do we need to spell it to you?
Firstly, the fact that Aisha رضي الله عنها played with dolls is not a decisive proof that she had not reached the age of puberty. We need to be careful here not to conflate different perceptions of maturity such as focusing entirely on superficial age limits.
More importantly, I find it odd that you presented yourself as someone interested in Islam yet seem solely preoccupied with doubts and suspicions levelled by anti-Islamic individuals. You started this thread claiming that this issue was not clear to you, yet seem very well prepared to bring detailed Islamic evidences and even have the audacity to allege that they contradict! We have been patient with your threads listing one allegation after another but I'm afraid we won't be entertaining threads of this nature from you again. As Muslims, we know that accusations from those who have a hatred for Islam will not cease and we are not in need of trying to justify our beliefs to those whose intentions are not in the right place to begin with.
(78)Chapter: Consummation Of Marriage With A Girl Of Nine(78)باب الْبِنَاءِ بِابْنَةِ تِسْعٍ .
It was narrated that 'Aisha said:
"The Messenger of Allah married me when I was six, and consummated the marriage with me when I was nine, and I used to play with dolls."
أَخْبَرَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ آدَمَ، عَنْ عَبْدَةَ، عَنْ هِشَامٍ، عَنْ أَبِيهِ، عَنْ عَائِشَةَ، قَالَتْ تَزَوَّجَنِي رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم وَأَنَا بِنْتُ سِتٍّ وَدَخَلَ عَلَىَّ وَأَنَا بِنْتُ تِسْعِ سِنِينَ وَكُنْتُ أَلْعَبُ بِالْبَنَاتِ .
Grade: Sahih (Darussalam)
Reference : Sunan an-Nasa'i 3378
In-book reference : Book 26, Hadith 183
English translation : Vol. 4, Book 26, Hadith 3380
So we have Aisha saying she and the prophet consummated their marriage at age 9.
We already know that the prophet took Aisha to one of his houses at age 9 when she was still playing with dolls.
During the time she lived with the prophet she was still playing with dolls which was allowed to her only because she had not reached puberty.
Do we need to spell it to you?
I think you might be misinterpreting Aisha. Her statement there is not explicitly clear about when she was playing with dolls. You assume that because she had mentioned that she had "played with dolls" immediately after mentioning her marriage was consummated at 9 that she "must have therefore been playing with dolls at 9", but she DID say in the SAME sentence that she had married at age 6. I have often read that Aisha was playing with dolls at 6, not 9. This does also seem more plausible too because while it could be reasonable enough that a 6 year old would be interested in playing with dolls, for a NINE year old to be still doing that verges on retarded mental development, or what they call "special needs". Records demonstrate that Aisha was intelligent, not retarded, therefore it's very unlikely that she was still "playing with dolls" at such a late age.
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