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  1. #1
    sartajc's Avatar
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    Help in refutation

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    I have gone through many anti Islamic websites, but the following question im having trouble answering.

    1. The alleged textual variations in the Qur'an. one site showed that some Qur'ans are actually textually varied. i thought that Qur'an was recital so i didn't care, but then i noticed that they were totally different letters making a totally different recital. how do i refute this?

    2. The idea that Muhammad (SWT) copied the Qur'an from people like Galen. For example, one allegation showed how the exact greek of what Galen wrote almost perfectly looked like what the Qur'an said about embryo development. How do i refute this?

    I'll PM the sources of these allegation to anyone. but if the moderator wants i can post the articles or links to the articles here.

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    REPSTER's Avatar
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    Re: Help in refutation



    Nice 1 bro just post the articles

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    Skillganon's Avatar
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    Re: Help in refutation

    Quote Originally Posted by sartajc View Post
    I have gone through many anti Islamic websites, but the following question im having trouble answering.

    1. The alleged textual variations in the Qur'an. one site showed that some Qur'ans are actually textually varied. i thought that Qur'an was recital so i didn't care, but then i noticed that they were totally different letters making a totally different recital. how do i refute this?
    For this you might wan't to read this.

    A. The Holy Qur'an; Its Historical Authenticity
    QUOTE]
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    Halima's Avatar
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    Re: Help in refutation

    Quote Originally Posted by sartajc View Post

    I'll PM the sources of these allegation to anyone. but if the moderator wants i can post the articles or links to the articles here.

    Personally, you should get in contact with Brother Ansar- as one of our top refuters.
    Help in refutation

    Do your charity in the name of Da'wah and help us out

    Insha'Allah Khair.



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    Skillganon's Avatar
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    Re: Help in refutation

    Quote Originally Posted by sartajc View Post

    2. The idea that Muhammad (SWT) copied the Qur'an from people like Galen. For example, one allegation showed how the exact greek of what Galen wrote almost perfectly looked like what the Qur'an said about embryo development. How do i refute this?
    You Might wan't to read this

    Embryology: The Bible Plagiarises Ancient Greek Literature

    > Embryology In the Qur'an <
    Last edited by Skillganon; 07-30-2006 at 03:59 PM.
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    Ansar Al-'Adl's Avatar
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    Re: Help in refutation


    Quote Originally Posted by sartajc View Post
    1. The alleged textual variations in the Qur'an. one site showed that some Qur'ans are actually textually varied. i thought that Qur'an was recital so i didn't care, but then i noticed that they were totally different letters making a totally different recital. how do i refute this?
    The best book on this subject is the following by Dr. M. M. Al-Azami
    http://www.islamicbookstore.com/b7626.html
    It stands as a decisive refutation of all the erroneous propaganda against the Qur'an's preservation.

    As for 'variants', the different Qira'&#226;t (recitations) are not variants, they come authorized from the Prophet pbuh himself and contain the same verses. The following are some audio clips of Surah Mulk in various Qira'&#226;t:

    Listen to them for yourself. The rare vowel elongation or pronounciation shift will go unnoticed to anyone but the experienced reciter who has memorized the surah. The recitations are almost identical.

    2. The idea that Muhammad (SWT) copied the Qur'an from people like Galen. For example, one allegation showed how the exact greek of what Galen wrote almost perfectly looked like what the Qur'an said about embryo development. How do i refute this?
    Refuted in great detail here:
    http://www.quranicstudies.com/article76.html

    Help in refutation

    The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said:
    "Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character" [Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Mâlik]


    Visit Ansâr Al-'Adl's personal page HERE.
    Excellent resources on Islam listed HERE.

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    sartajc's Avatar
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    Re: Help in refutation

    Salam Ansari and thank you for your help.

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    lolwatever's Avatar
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    Re: Help in refutation

    jazaks ansar cool stuff bro
    salams
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    ليس بعلم ما حواه القمطر، ماالعلم إلا ما وعاه الصدر
    .::.....sabr Ayyoub.....::.

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    Malaikah's Avatar
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    Re: Help in refutation

    Quote Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl View Post
    As for 'variants', the different Qira'ât (recitations) are not variants, they come authorized from the Prophet pbuh himself and contain the same verses.


    huh? what are they?
    Help in refutation


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    lolwatever's Avatar
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    Re: Help in refutation

    ^^ different styles of recitation... umm go to islamway.com u can listen to different styles i think.. there's warsh, hafs and others..

    an example is when Umar heard a companion reading a verse very dfiferently to what he heard, and Umar told the companion off and the companion said that he heard the prophet read it that way, and the prophet affirmed and said 'The Quran has come in seven recital forms'

    the recitations hav their variants in wording too for example, i think its warsh where you read 'maaaliki yawmideen' as 'maliki yawmideen' (maaaliki = owner), (maliki = king).

    salams
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    ليس بعلم ما حواه القمطر، ماالعلم إلا ما وعاه الصدر
    .::.....sabr Ayyoub.....::.

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    `Abd al-Azeez's Avatar
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    Re: Help in refutation



    The first question, I believe is referring to the 7 ahruf or styles in which the Quran was revealed, these two ahadith answer the first allegation:

    ‏ ‏حدثنا ‏ ‏يحيى بن يحيى ‏ ‏قال قرأت على ‏ ‏مالك ‏ ‏عن ‏ ‏ابن شهاب ‏ ‏عن ‏ ‏عروة بن الزبير ‏ ‏عن ‏ ‏عبد الرحمن بن عبد القاري ‏ ‏قال سمعت ‏ ‏عمر بن الخطاب ‏ ‏يقولا ‏
    ‏سمعت ‏ ‏هشام بن حكيم بن حزام ‏ ‏يقرأ سورة ‏ ‏الفرقان ‏ ‏على غير ما أقرؤها وكان رسول الله ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏أقرأنيها فكدت أن ‏ ‏أعجل عليه ‏ ‏ثم أمهلته حتى انصرف ثم ‏ ‏لببته ‏ ‏بردائه فجئت به رسول الله ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏فقلت يا رسول الله إني سمعت هذا يقرأ سورة ‏ ‏الفرقان ‏ ‏على غير ما أقرأتنيها فقال رسول الله ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏أرسله اقرأ فقرأ القراءة التي سمعته يقرأ فقال رسول الله ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏هكذا أنزلت ثم قال لي اقرأ فقرأت فقال ‏ ‏هكذا أنزلت إن هذا القرآن أنزل على سبعة ‏ ‏أحرف ‏ ‏فاقرءوا ما تيسر منه
    ‏و حدثني ‏ ‏حرملة بن يحيى ‏ ‏أخبرنا ‏ ‏ابن وهب ‏ ‏أخبرني ‏ ‏يونس ‏ ‏عن ‏ ‏ابن شهاب ‏ ‏أخبرني ‏ ‏عروة بن الزبير ‏ ‏أن ‏ ‏المسور بن مخرمة ‏ ‏وعبد الرحمن بن عبد القاري ‏ ‏أخبراه أنهما سمعا ‏ ‏عمر بن الخطاب ‏ ‏يقولا ‏ ‏سمعت ‏ ‏هشام بن حكيم ‏ ‏يقرأ سورة ‏ ‏الفرقان ‏ ‏في حياة رسول الله ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏وساق الحديث بمثله وزاد فكدت ‏ ‏أساوره ‏ ‏في الصلاة فتصبرت حتى سلم ‏ ‏حدثنا ‏ ‏إسحق بن إبراهيم ‏ ‏وعبد بن حميد ‏ ‏قالا أخبرنا ‏ ‏عبد الرزاق ‏ ‏أخبرنا ‏ ‏معمر ‏ ‏عن ‏ ‏الزهري ‏ ‏كرواية ‏ ‏يونس ‏ ‏بإسناده ‏


    'Umar bin Al-Khattab, may Allah be pleased with him, said:
    I heard Hisham bin Hakim bin Hizam reciting surah Al-Furqan in a style different from that in which I used to recite it, and in which Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) had taught me to recite it. I was about to dispute with him (on this style) but I delayed till he had finished that (the recitation). Then I caught hold of his cloak and brought him to the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) and said: Messenger of Allah, I heard this man reciting surah Al-Furqan in a style different from the one in which you taught me to recite. Upon this the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) told (me) to leave him alone and asked him to recite. He then recited in the style in which I heard him recite it. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) then said: Thus was it sent down. He then told me to recite and I recited it, and he said: Thus was it sent down. The Qur'an was sent down in seven dialects. So recite what seems easy therefrom.

    ~ http://hadith.al-islam.com/bayan/display.asp?Lang=eng&ID=436]

    And:

    ‏ ‏و حدثني ‏ ‏حرملة بن يحيى ‏ ‏أخبرنا ‏ ‏ابن وهب ‏ ‏أخبرني ‏ ‏يونس ‏ ‏عن ‏ ‏ابن شهاب ‏ ‏حدثني ‏ ‏عبيد الله بن عبد الله بن عتبة ‏ ‏أن ‏ ‏ابن عباس ‏ ‏حدثه ‏
    ‏أن رسول الله ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏قال ‏ ‏أقرأني ‏ ‏جبريل ‏ ‏عليه السلام ‏ ‏على حرف فراجعته فلم أزل أستزيده فيزيدني حتى انتهى إلى سبعة أحرف ‏
    ‏قال ‏ ‏ابن شهاب ‏ ‏بلغني أن تلك السبعة الأحرف إنما هي في الأمر الذي يكون واحدا لا يختلف في حلال ولا حرام ‏ ‏و حدثناه ‏ ‏عبد بن حميد ‏ ‏أخبرنا ‏ ‏عبد الرزاق ‏ ‏أخبرنا ‏ ‏معمر ‏ ‏عن ‏ ‏الزهري ‏ ‏بهذا الإسناد ‏

    Ibn 'Abbas, may Allah be pleased with them, reported:
    Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Gabriel taught me to recite in one style. I replied to him and kept asking him to give more (styles), till he reached seven modes (of recitation).

    http://hadith.al-islam.com/bayan/dis...ang=eng&ID=437
    Last edited by `Abd al-Azeez; 08-29-2006 at 10:46 PM.

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    sartajc's Avatar
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    Re: Help in refutation

    Quote Originally Posted by `Abd al-Azeez View Post


    The first question, I believe is referring to the 7 ahruf or styles in which the Quran was revealed, these two ahadith answer the first allegation:

    ‏ ‏حدثنا ‏ ‏يحيى بن يحيى ‏ ‏قال قرأت على ‏ ‏مالك ‏ ‏عن ‏ ‏ابن شهاب ‏ ‏عن ‏ ‏عروة بن الزبير ‏ ‏عن ‏ ‏عبد الرحمن بن عبد القاري ‏ ‏قال سمعت ‏ ‏عمر بن الخطاب ‏ ‏يقولا ‏
    ‏سمعت ‏ ‏هشام بن حكيم بن حزام ‏ ‏يقرأ سورة ‏ ‏الفرقان ‏ ‏على غير ما أقرؤها وكان رسول الله ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏أقرأنيها فكدت أن ‏ ‏أعجل عليه ‏ ‏ثم أمهلته حتى انصرف ثم ‏ ‏لببته ‏ ‏بردائه فجئت به رسول الله ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏فقلت يا رسول الله إني سمعت هذا يقرأ سورة ‏ ‏الفرقان ‏ ‏على غير ما أقرأتنيها فقال رسول الله ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏أرسله اقرأ فقرأ القراءة التي سمعته يقرأ فقال رسول الله ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏هكذا أنزلت ثم قال لي اقرأ فقرأت فقال ‏ ‏هكذا أنزلت إن هذا القرآن أنزل على سبعة ‏ ‏أحرف ‏ ‏فاقرءوا ما تيسر منه
    ‏و حدثني ‏ ‏حرملة بن يحيى ‏ ‏أخبرنا ‏ ‏ابن وهب ‏ ‏أخبرني ‏ ‏يونس ‏ ‏عن ‏ ‏ابن شهاب ‏ ‏أخبرني ‏ ‏عروة بن الزبير ‏ ‏أن ‏ ‏المسور بن مخرمة ‏ ‏وعبد الرحمن بن عبد القاري ‏ ‏أخبراه أنهما سمعا ‏ ‏عمر بن الخطاب ‏ ‏يقولا ‏ ‏سمعت ‏ ‏هشام بن حكيم ‏ ‏يقرأ سورة ‏ ‏الفرقان ‏ ‏في حياة رسول الله ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏وساق الحديث بمثله وزاد فكدت ‏ ‏أساوره ‏ ‏في الصلاة فتصبرت حتى سلم ‏ ‏حدثنا ‏ ‏إسحق بن إبراهيم ‏ ‏وعبد بن حميد ‏ ‏قالا أخبرنا ‏ ‏عبد الرزاق ‏ ‏أخبرنا ‏ ‏معمر ‏ ‏عن ‏ ‏الزهري ‏ ‏كرواية ‏ ‏يونس ‏ ‏بإسناده ‏


    'Umar bin Al-Khattab, may Allah be pleased with him, said:
    I heard Hisham bin Hakim bin Hizam reciting surah Al-Furqan in a style different from that in which I used to recite it, and in which Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) had taught me to recite it. I was about to dispute with him (on this style) but I delayed till he had finished that (the recitation). Then I caught hold of his cloak and brought him to the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) and said: Messenger of Allah, I heard this man reciting surah Al-Furqan in a style different from the one in which you taught me to recite. Upon this the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) told (me) to leave him alone and asked him to recite. He then recited in the style in which I heard him recite it. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) then said: Thus was it sent down. He then told me to recite and I recited it, and he said: Thus was it sent down. The Qur'an was sent down in seven dialects. So recite what seems easy therefrom.

    ~ http://hadith.al-islam.com/bayan/display.asp?Lang=eng&ID=436]

    And:

    ‏ ‏و حدثني ‏ ‏حرملة بن يحيى ‏ ‏أخبرنا ‏ ‏ابن وهب ‏ ‏أخبرني ‏ ‏يونس ‏ ‏عن ‏ ‏ابن شهاب ‏ ‏حدثني ‏ ‏عبيد الله بن عبد الله بن عتبة ‏ ‏أن ‏ ‏ابن عباس ‏ ‏حدثه ‏
    ‏أن رسول الله ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏قال ‏ ‏أقرأني ‏ ‏جبريل ‏ ‏عليه السلام ‏ ‏على حرف فراجعته فلم أزل أستزيده فيزيدني حتى انتهى إلى سبعة أحرف ‏
    ‏قال ‏ ‏ابن شهاب ‏ ‏بلغني أن تلك السبعة الأحرف إنما هي في الأمر الذي يكون واحدا لا يختلف في حلال ولا حرام ‏ ‏و حدثناه ‏ ‏عبد بن حميد ‏ ‏أخبرنا ‏ ‏عبد الرزاق ‏ ‏أخبرنا ‏ ‏معمر ‏ ‏عن ‏ ‏الزهري ‏ ‏بهذا الإسناد ‏

    Ibn 'Abbas, may Allah be pleased with them, reported:
    Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Gabriel taught me to recite in one style. I replied to him and kept asking him to give more (styles), till he reached seven modes (of recitation).
    im kinda confused. then how come people say that the Qur'an is unchanged?

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    `Abd al-Azeez's Avatar
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    Re: Help in refutation

    Quote Originally Posted by sartajc View Post
    im kinda confused. then how come people say that the Qur'an is unchanged?
    It is unchanged, it was revealed in 7 different dialects to prophet Muhammad (saw). Its basically the difference between modern English and Old English.

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    sartajc's Avatar
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    Re: Help in refutation

    Quote Originally Posted by `Abd al-Azeez View Post
    It is unchanged, it was revealed in 7 different dialects to prophet Muhammad (saw). Its basically the difference between modern English and Old English.
    But if isn't there a difference between Old English and New English? or do you mean that it is like "my nameth is bob" and "my name is bob" where the word is the same exact thing but said differently?

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    Skillganon's Avatar
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    Re: Help in refutation

    Quote Originally Posted by sartajc View Post
    im kinda confused. then how come people say that the Qur'an is unchanged?
    The words are the same. It is the rythem, beat, flair and slight pronounciation of certain words, that may differ when reciting the Quran.

    i.e. Look at what brother AnsarAli posted
    The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) then said: Thus was it sent down. He then told me to recite and I recited it, and he said: Thus was it sent down. The Qur'an was sent down in seven dialects. So recite what seems easy therefrom.
    Bro

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  20. #16
    sartajc's Avatar
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    Re: Help in refutation

    oh ok i get it. its like the difference between brotha and brother...right?

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    `Abd al-Azeez's Avatar
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    Re: Help in refutation

    Quote Originally Posted by sartajc View Post
    oh ok i get it. its like the difference between brotha and brother...right?
    Basically, watch how Shaykh Ahmed Deedat (r) explaines it [first question]:

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...q=ahmed+deedat

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    Re: Help in refutation

    Muhammad (SWT)
    i thought you say SWT for Allah... it stands for Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala, right?

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    Re: Help in refutation

    Quote Originally Posted by Sister Salam View Post
    i thought you say SWT for Allah... it stands for Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala, right?
    Yeah you do, I think brother sartajc is confused

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    Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн's Avatar
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    Re: Help in refutation

    yeaa.. i used to think the same..im like isnt that for Allah..? lolz
    Help in refutation

    *Without Allah, without Islam, life would be meaningless. If I've ever learned patience, it's because of this. Alhamdulillah...*


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