“Can Allaah create a god like Himself?”

**- Qatada -** · 08-26-2006

An atheist saying “Can Allaah create a god like Himself?”

Question:

Some atheists ask questions such as, “If Allaah is able to do all things, can He create another god like Himself?” or “Can He create something so heavy that He cannot lift it?”.

Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.

Firstly:

The atheist needs someone who will call him to Allaah and remind him of the blessing and signs of Allaah which point to His existence, Oneness and might.

The entire universe points to Allaah, may He be exalted, how can anyone deny it?

How could anyone disobey God or how could anyone deny Him

When God has a sign in everything that exists to point to His Oneness?

No attention should be paid to the specious arguments of the atheists and those who have gone astray, except by the one who is qualified to refute them. So we must be very cautious, because a specious argument may become settled in the heart, after which it is difficult to get rid of it.

Secondly:

This argument is one of the oldest specious arguments offered by the atheists, and the scholars have a well known answer to it, which may be summed up in two points:

1 – This matter is impossible, because if the other one was a god, it would not be possible to create him. To assume that he can be a god and be created is impossible.

It says in al-Durar al-Saniyyah min al-Ajwabah al-Najdiyyah (3/265): A story discussing a different issue was narrated from Ibn ‘Abbaas, which is that the devils said to Iblees, O our master, why do we see you rejoicing over the death of a scholar in a way that you do not rejoice over the death of a worshipper? For we cannot influence the scholar but we can influence the worshipper. He said: Go a worshipper, go to him when he is worshipping. They said: We want to ask you. He turned to them and Iblees said: Can your Lord create another like Himself? He said: I do not know. He said: Don’t you see that his worship cannot benefit him when he is so ignorant?

They asked a scholar about that and he said: That is impossible, because if he were like Him, he could not have been created, and the idea that he is created and is like Him is impossible. If he is created he is not like Him, rather he is just one of His slaves. He said: Don’t you see that this man can destroy in an hour what it took years to build? And Allaah knows best. End quote.

2 – The idea of another god existing alongside Allaah is inherently impossible. There is a great deal of evidence to suggest that it is impossible, the least of which is the existence of this organized universe. If there were another god, the system of the universe would be spoiled because they would compete with one another and each of them would want to prevail over the other, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Had there been therein (in the heavens and the earth) aalihah (gods) besides Allaah, then verily, both would have been ruined. Glorified be Allaah, the Lord of the Throne, (High is He) above all that (evil) they associate with Him!”

[al-Anbiya’ 21:22]

“No son (or offspring) did Allaah beget, nor is there any ilaah (god) along with Him. (If there had been many gods), then each god would have taken away what he had created, and some would have tried to overcome others! Glorified be Allaah above all that they attribute to Him!”

[al-Mu’minoon 23:91]

Ibn Katheer (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in his Tafseer: i.e., if there was a number of gods, each one of them would have taken away that which he created and the universe would be in disarray. What we see is that the universe is organized and orderly, and each realm, upper and lower, is connected to the other in the most perfect manner. “you can see no fault in the creation of the Most Gracious” [al-Mulk 67:3]. And each of them would seek to dominate the others and some of them would prevail over others.

The same applies to the creation of an object so heavy that Allaah could not lift it. It is impossible, because Allaah is the One who creates it, and He is able to destroy it at any moment, so how can He be unable to lift it?

The atheist only wants to cast aspersions on the general meaning of the words of Allaah, “Allaah has power over all things” [al-Talaaq 65:12]. So he says, if He has power over all things, why does He not have the power to do this?

The answer is: Because it is impossible, it is nothing.

That which is impossible does not exist, because it cannot exist, so it is nothing, even if the mind can imagine it. It is known that the mind can assume and imagine the impossible, the mind can imagine two opposites, such as something existing and not existing, at the same time.

The verse states that Allaah has power over “things” but that does not include things that are inherently impossible, because they are not things, rather they do not exist and they cannot be brought into existence.

Hence more than one of the scholars have stated that the power of Allaah has to do with that which is possible, for the reason that we have mentioned, which is that that which is non-existent and impossible is not a “thing”.

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: As for Ahl al-Sunnah, in their view Allaah, may He be exalted, has power over all things, and everything that is possible is included in that. As for that which is inherently impossible, such as a thing both existing and being non-existent, there is no reality in it and its existence cannot be imagined, so it cannot be called a “thing” according to the consensus of the wise. This includes the idea of creating another like Himself, and so on. End quote from Manhaaj al-Sunnah (2/294).

Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in Shifa’ al-‘Aleel (p. 374): Because that which is impossible is not a “thing”, so His Power has nothing to do with it. Allaah has power over all things and no possible thing is beyond His power. End quote.

And Allaah knows best.

Islam Q&A

**IceQueen~** · 08-26-2006

the logic of the argument in the first place is absurd, so even going into it will only lead to an absurd answer so yeah-its nothing cos the question is nothing

**Trumble** · 08-26-2006

Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah

The entire universe points to Allaah, may He be exalted, how can anyone deny it?

I have never had any difficulty, at least considering the conception of God in the way Islam does.

How could anyone disobey God or how could anyone deny Him

If there is no God, there is no problem with either of those things.

No attention should be paid to the specious arguments of the atheists and those who have gone astray, except by the one who is qualified to refute them.

How do you become 'qualified' to refute an argument, specious or not? If faith is strong no 'qualified' person is needed. That just seems a cop out to give the responsibility for defending your beliefs to somebody else because you are unable to do so.

This argument is one of the oldest specious arguments offered by the atheists, and the scholars have a well known answer to it, which may be summed up in two points:

....

To assume that he can be a god and be created is impossible.

Why? An unproven (the story isn't even close) assertion of something that humanity will almost certainly never to be in a position to know is no refutation of anything.

The idea of another god existing alongside Allaah is inherently impossible. There is a great deal of evidence to suggest that it is impossible, the least of which is the existence of this organized universe. If there were another god, the system of the universe would be spoiled because they would compete with one another and each of them would want to prevail over the other

Why? And why? There is no evidence it is inherently impossible. The only thing you present is not only inconclusive, it is contradictory. If God (or Gods, if there were two) is Perfect, totally Good, omnipotent and omniscient why would two Gods "compete" or "wish to prevail" rather than co-operate?

The same applies to the creation of an object so heavy that Allaah could not lift it. It is impossible, because Allaah is the One who creates it, and He is able to destroy it at any moment, so how can He be unable to lift it?

This is just a very old philosophical poser, and has nothing to do with anybody casting aspersions on anything. Neither, even if the point is accepted, does it argue against the existence of God, only one view of his capabilities.

The answer is: Because it is impossible, it is nothing.

That which is impossible does not exist, because it cannot exist, so it is nothing, even if the mind can imagine it. It is known that the mind can assume and imagine the impossible, the mind can imagine two opposites, such as something existing and not existing, at the same time.

Very interesting. It answers the question how, exactly? The point is that where God is concerned supposedly NOTHING is impossible. You are not refuting the question, but conceding it, as does the verse you state.

**QuranStudy** · 08-26-2006

God has no beginning. God has no creator, and has no parents.

**IceQueen~** · 08-26-2006

exactly^

**^..sTr!vEr..^** · 08-26-2006

these peoppple!!!....i wish they wud ask ask questions from me!!...

Firstly, tell them straight away..Allah swt is not goin to ask me for such thgs so y shud i tell u..
Secondly, wht is it to u??is it a barrier in worshippin Him?

**Ansar Al-'Adl** · 08-26-2006

From here:

Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl

Question: Can God create a stone large enough that even He can't lift?

My Answer:

Atheists attempt to use this question to prove that the concept of omnipotence is self-contradictory. But the problem here is a contradiction in terms. This issue becomes even more clear when we examine a related question: "Can God create an uncreated being?" The problem here is that the questioner has already defined the being to be uncreated and then proceeds to ask for something that contradicts that definition. The problem is in the questioner's terms, not any lack in God's potential. The same is true when asking God to make a circle with four sides. Having already provided a definition of a circle that could never include a four-sided figure, such a question is absurd. Something is certainly self-contradictory here, but it is the questioner's terminology and not the omnipotence of God.

The same is true when we come to the case of create a stone which cannot be lifted. Aside from the problem that we are placing an infinite unrestricted being under the finite restricted laws of our universe, the concept of the stone is self-contradictory. Basically, such a stone could not exist. When one asks if God could create such a stone, one would normally identify the properties of such a stone. But here we haven't been given absoloute properties, but instead we've been given properties of the stone relative to God's properties. The questioner has identified the potential stone as something so big that God couldn't lift, so even though we already know that there is nothing God cannot lift, they have used that as an attribute for the stone. Automatically, the concept of such a stone is nullfied. Now, when they ask could God create such a stone, the answer is no, but that doesn't imply a lack of potential on the part of God. Instead, it reflects the fact that the concept of such a stone is illogical, unreal, inadmissable. It is very similar to asking if God can die. Well, death isn't an ability, its the inability to live. The immortal cannot die because that defies His attribute of immortality. Similarly, the omnipotent cannot create a task that He can't complete because such a task is merely a figment of one's imagination and could not exist.

You're basically asking, if God can do anything, can He make it impossible for himself to do something? The question is illogical and self-contradictory because the argument contradicts the premise. Once you have already established that God can do anything, then that's a set attribute and part of His nature. Therefore, He can do anything that is consistent with His nature, anything that is absolute.

Can God make 1=2? Well if 1=2, then it wouldn't be 1! So the idea is self-contradictory, not God.

The question also reminds me of the idea of what happens when an immovable rock meets an unstoppable force? The two things cannot exist in the same universe. Likewise, if God exists then all things which contradict His attributes are imaginary, non-existant and impossible. They are forever bound to the realm of imagination and cannot be brought into existence.

Shaykh Ibn Abil-'Izz (d. 1389CE) also answered this question in Sharhul Aqeedatit Tahaawiyyah (p.137), in his discussion of the following verse:

And Allah, over each thing, is omnipotent; all-powerful [al-Baqarah 2:284]

This includes all that is possible. As for what is in intrinsically impossible - such as there being a thing that exists and does not exist at one and the same time - then, this has no reality, nor is its existence conceivable, nor is it termed 'a thing' by agreement of those with intelligence. Included in this category is: [Allah] creating the likes of Himself, making Himself non-existent, and other impossibilites.

This also serves as a reply to the question posed by some: 'Can Allah create a stone that He is unable to lift?' The argument being that if Allah cannot create such a stone, He is not all-powerful; but if He can, then likewise He is not all-powerful. The fallacy of this argument lies in the fact that such an affair is, in itself, impossible and exists only in the minds of certain people. And not all that the mind conjures-up has an existence that is possible, nor is it always termed 'a thing.'

Hopefully that makes the issue clear.

And Allah knows best.

**Eric H** · 08-26-2006

Greetings and peace be with you Ansar,

Two related question that have given me countless sleepless nights over the years are:

Could God love each one of us as he loves himself?

Could God love each one of us more than he loves himself?

In the spirit of searching for God

Eric

**Woodrow** · 08-26-2006

Originally Posted by Eric H

Greetings and peace be with you Ansar,

Two related question that have given me countless sleepless nights over the years are:

Could God love each one of us as he loves himself?

Could God love each one of us more than he loves himself?

In the spirit of searching for God

Eric

Greetings Eric,

Quite interesting questions. But perhaps not as complicated as they appear. Maybe we want a complex answer and the answer is actually very simple.

Ask these two questions:

Is God(swt) the most powerfull?

I believe the answer is yes.

Does God(swt) have any needs?

I believe the answer is no.

Now if you agree with my answers to those 2 questions, let us see what I believe would be answers to your 2 questions.

Could God love each one of us as he loves himself?

God(swt) has no need to love himself. He loves freely with no need of any return. He can love each of us with as much love as he desires to give, with no need to recieve any from any source. So yes he can love us with however much love he chooses and it having no relationship or meaning upon any love he desires to give to himself.

Could God love each one of us more than he loves himself?

Same answer

**Zone Maker** · 08-26-2006

Originally Posted by Woodrow

Greetings Eric,

Quite interesting questions. But perhaps not as complicated as they appear. Maybe we want a complex answer and the answer is actually very simple.

Ask these two questions:

Is God(swt) the most powerfull?

I believe the answer is yes.

Does God(swt) have any needs?

I believe the answer is no.

Now if you agree with my answers to those 2 questions, let us see what I believe would be answers to your 2 questions.

Could God love each one of us as he loves himself?

God(swt) has no need to love himself. He loves freely with no need of any return. He can love each of us with as much love as he desires to give, with no need to recieve any from any source. So yes he can love us with however much love he chooses and it having no relationship or meaning upon any love he desires to give to himself.

Could God love each one of us more than he loves himself?

Same answer

A very smart answer bro.
ha ha ha ha

.
It didn't even came across my mind.
simple but smart

.
ما شاء الله ولا حول ولا قوة الابالله.

**Eric H** · 08-27-2006

Greetings in peace Woodrow and thank you for your reply;

I believe the answer is no.

A very truthful answer but the word ‘believe’ sums up the level of proof that we both have, lack of proof keeps us searching.

Again I agree with your statement that God is all powerful, but I would also include one other word to describe God, he is the ‘greatest’ in all things.

If love is a good quality then God would be the greatest love.
If mercy is a good quality then God would have the greatest mercy.
If God were going to create the universe and life he would have the greatest good purpose to do so.

Again I agree with you that God does not need anything to make him greater, God did not need to create the universe, but he did

Search for a greatest good purpose to create the universe and life.

God loves each and every one of us as he loves himself?

Can there be any greater good purpose for God to create life?

Again I agree with you that the answer to this question will be simple if we knew the truth, but you and I are stuck with beliefs and a certain amount of doubt, we do not have God's qualities and we do not know the mind of God.

In the spirit of searching

Eric

**Woodrow** · 08-27-2006

Greetings Eric,

Learning is paradoxol the more we learn the less we know and the more we are driven to search.

We may disagree on beliefs, but perhaps we can agree that the lack of desire to search is evidence of a lack of beliefs.

I think when we stop searching is the day we stop believing.

Peace,Woodrow

**lolwatever** · 08-27-2006

1 – This matter is impossible, because if the other one was a god, it would not be possible to create him. To assume that he can be a god and be created is impossible.

that point is really good mashalah...

coz (astaghfirullah) but suppose such thing happened, the fact taht the 'created god' is created implies he isn't a god... since by definition Allah is the creator and not created.

ofcourse.. besides the fact it contradicts attributes of a true ilaah (such as al-waahid, laysa lahu kufuwan ahad etc)

jazaks bro fi, great article masahlah. would hav repped u but i'm dry on reps :s

salamz

Let's all recite Surah Al-Kahf today!

“Can Allaah create a god like Himself?”

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