And thou (stands) on an exalted standard of character. Surah Al-Qalam 68, Verse 4.
Now Compare
Narrated Abu Qilaba: Anas said, "Some people of 'ukl or 'Uraina tribe came to Medina and its climate did not suit them. So the Prophet ordered them to go to the herd of (Milch) camels and to drink their milk and urine (as a medicine). So they went as directed and after they became healthy, they killed the shepherd of the Prophet and drove away all the camels. The news reached the Prophet early in the morning and he sent (men) in their pursuit and they were captured and brought at noon. He then ordered to cut their hands and feet (and it was done), and their eyes were branded with heated pieces of iron, They were put in 'Al-Harra' and when they asked for water, no water was given to them." Abu Qilaba said, "Those people committed theft and murder, became infidels after embracing Islam and fought against Allah and His Apostle ." ( Bukhari Book #4, Hadith #234).
Brother Ansar said theres no fabricated hadeeth at all in Sahih Bukhari..i wonder what he thinks of this hadeeth?
All of them worship out of fear of fire
and consider deliverance abundant good fortune
or so they may dwell in the gardens , and reach to the meadows of paradise and there drink from its rivers
of gardens or fire i have no opinion
I seek no exchange for my Dearest Love
thanks lolwatever - guess this is what happens when you don't read the whole thread - i'll go back.
the examples you gave are very clear and leave no room for doubt as to whether they are literal or metaphorical.
but i was thinking that in the case of the hadiths, it might not always be that plain, so i was wondering who determines, when it isn't obvious, whether a certain hadith is literal or metaphorical.
maybe i'll know after i read the whole thread.
i had read fi_sabilillah's post now clarifying that hadith. thought you were refering to something else, so i wanted to be sure.
but my question remains, in relation to what akulion wrote, who determines whether a specific hatith is literal or metaphorical, when it is not obvious.
Last edited by snakelegs; 09-13-2006 at 03:18 AM.
each man thinks of his own fleas as gazelles
question authority
lol to be quite honest i cant really recall a hadith where its hard to figure metaphor from nonmetaphor... but as with anything else that's ambiguous, if we don't know something we can always go back to the scholars who can explain it for us based on their knowing of other hadiths and verses that we may be ignorant of
lol to be quite honest i cant really recall a hadith where its hard to figure metaphor from nonmetaphor... but as with anything else that's ambiguous, if we don't know something we can always go back to the scholars who can explain it for us based on their knowing of other hadiths and verses that we may be ignorant of
hope that helps
take care all the best
there is so much to learn in islam, that i doubt that there are very many ordinary people who have in depth knowledge! but it's good that you are supposed to learn as much as possible.
each man thinks of his own fleas as gazelles
question authority
^ das true das y we go back to the 'specialists' if we hav trouble understanding something or knowing hte ruling regarding issues... and even then, the scholars cant just say 'the ruling is so n so' and we blind follow.. they hav to be able to explain it to people and present the evidence for their conclusions.
The Hadith and the Quran cannot contradict each other. That is an established fact. The hadiths that are out there today that are Sahih and those that are present in the agreed books do not contradict the Quran in any way even though for us, laymen, it may seem as they do. Once a person gets an understanding of the Hadith and the Quran they see that they do no contradict. And if millions of scholors (scholors including the Sahaba, and the Tabieen, and the Tabatabieen) over the past 1400 years have not seen a contradiction, who are we, people who do not even know all the basics of the religion to jump and say that they contradict when it is actually our lack of understanding?
I will not argue this point. Not because I agree, but because I at the moment (and in the near future) won't have the time to dedicate to it.
Point being was, there is more to hadith rejection than "oh noes, that hadith seems nasty, it must be wrong!" thinking.
I came into this thread from making a post in a new thread about September eleven: 9 problems 11 solutions; to which I have added a different scale of solutions. It struck me immediately that the ferocity of the Prophets Judgement (Peace go with Him and all His descendents) is to the same degree as my own immediately present hatred for those who commit the crimes of hate of the modern economy, against all that is life sustaining. Apart from wondering about the fuller context of the Judgements (for example, were the bad guys planning to accumulate interest by selling the camels, there is so much contextual detail omitted); I am left wondering about why it is that today so many of us accept such severity of Judgement against us in the grave, only by accepting spending money as though a life sustaining act; when we refute that such should be conducted up here in the world in which we raise our children. ???
Are we being good to our children by preventing them witnessing what they might fear too much, or are we exposing them to a monetary economy which is worse because they are being conditioned into falling into accepting such retribution in the grave as inevitable?
Stealing camels is heineous; but these days there are men whom steal mothers and wifes and force them into prostitution; and whom we all must surely regard as being headed for penalties in the grave at least as sever as Mohammed (Peace go with Him and all His descendents) Judged.
Mu'asalam
Within the Realm of King Solomon
Who could have known I was home grown
An accuser's false allegation
Did warrant only my Nation in apology for inconveniences
its shaytan leeches
who accuse
my unconscious sleep
of accusing you too cheep
I will be selling for five times three
centsiblity
I am going to hazard a guess that camel wee medicine causes hallucinations of death, and that the cure it can bring about is that cure of acceptance in Allah. Thereby the blinding of the criminals as retribution for trying to blame themselves upon the camel herder can be comprehended. But really, it is not certain, since my self, never drank the stuff.
mu'asalam
Within the Realm of King Solomon
Who could have known I was home grown
An accuser's false allegation
Did warrant only my Nation in apology for inconveniences
its shaytan leeches
who accuse
my unconscious sleep
of accusing you too cheep
I will be selling for five times three
centsiblity
I dont know what you are getting at here because your method of writing is very hard to understand.
The camel urine medicine mixed with honey was a remedy for certain disease of the knees in the past.
Infact it is not uncommon for people in the past to adopt natural remedies because of the lack of industrial chemicals present.
We even use many of natural ingredients today: whale fat used in cosmetics, gelatin used in food materials, animal intestines used for sausages and other delicies
I'm only getting at the fact that there is so very much contextual data missing from the Judgement that Mohammed (Peace go with Him and His descendents) made; that it is impossible for us to know its relevance right now; but only that a relevance is retained. So while there are no camel theives in my immediate vicinity, but the hadith is there staring me in the face, I seek some relevance. But I will not apologise for being difficult to understand since English is a very difficult language to express any meaning in with precision.
and Salam
Within the Realm of King Solomon
Who could have known I was home grown
An accuser's false allegation
Did warrant only my Nation in apology for inconveniences
its shaytan leeches
who accuse
my unconscious sleep
of accusing you too cheep
I will be selling for five times three
centsiblity
Someone wanted a better explanation, so I am going to do this from my previous research via memory. Please search the hadith for refrences to the same hadith and you will find all the mentioned narrations.....
The hadith which was quoted has many narrations, not just one. I did research on this about 2 years back when I was presented with that hadith by someone in Yahoo chat. The whole story is best understood after reading all the narrations.
The punishment of branding the eyes was actually a punishment which was allowed before the advent of Prophet Mohammed(s). In this particular hadith this punishment was dealt for the last time upon any person, and after it Allah swt commanded that this punishment can no longer be carried out, so it was completely stopped.
Further more something I noticed in the hadith is that it did not mention one part which is present in another narration, which says "the men were left alone in a valley and they asked for water, but were given none, so they died of thirst". A lot of people mistake this as being a denial from the Prophet, but in fact it was the people who were passing through that valley who refused to give those people water.
What is futher more to understand about this hadith and the severity of the punishment dealt is the fact that these people had driven off the entire livelihood and food supply of the people of that town (the camels) - thus making evryone in the vicinity suffer greatly.
Sometimes it takes research to shed light into the matter. That is why such deep topics are best left to Sheikh ul Hadith who have full understanding of the ahadith in a historical context.
Discussions on hadith should be done one at a time so each one can be explained completely and with due attention. The hadith concerning the ukil tribe has already been explained in this thread; please refer to the link provided earlier by br. Fi_Sabilillah:
Commonly Misquoted Verses and Narrations - the Ukil tribe
As for other hadiths mentioned in this thread, we will examine and discuss them in other threads, inshaa'Allah.
The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character" [Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Mâlik]
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