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On another forum I go on occasionally a Christian on there stated that the Qur'an does not say the bible has been corrupted, and thus no reason for Islam. Can some one give me information as to where it is stated the Bible has been corrupted. Thank you
just some more to take note is...the decision was made by sa'd bin muadh who the jews themselves chose to make the decision (they were even given the decision!):
The Siege of Bani-Kureizha
Now came the affair of the Bani- Kureizha. The victory in the opinion of the Muslims was hardly achieved as long as the Bani-Kureizha remained so near, and in such dangerous proximity to Medina. They had proved themselves traitors in spite of their sworn alliance, and had at one time almost surprised medina from their side, an even which, if successful, would have involved the general massacre of the Muslims. The Jews were therefore besieged and compelled to surrender in discretion.
The condition for Surrender put forward by Bani-Kureizha
The Jews made only one condition, that their punishment should be left to the judgment of the Ausite (Of the tribe of Aus) chief, Sa'd Ibn Muaz. This man, a fierce soldier who had been wounded in the attack, and indeed died from his wounds the next day, infuriated by their treacherous conduct, gave the sentence that the "fighting men" should be put to death, and that the women and children should become the slaves of the Muslims ; and this sentence was carried into execution.
"It was a harsh, bloody sentence, " says Lane-Poole, "worthy of the Episcopal generals of the army against the Albigenses, or of the deeds of the Augustan age of Puritanism ; but it must be remembered that the crime of these men was high treason against the State during a time of siege ; and those who have read how Wellington's march could be traced by bodies of deserters and pillagers hanging from the trees , need not be surprised at the summary execution of a traitorous clan."
These traitorous Jews brought their fate upon themselves. If they had been put to death, even without the judgment of Sa'd, it would have been in consonance with the principles which then prevailed. But they themselves had chosen Sa'd as the sole arbiter and judge of their fate ; they knew that his judgment was not at all contrary to the received notions and accordingly never murdered. They knew that if they had succeeded they would have massacred their enemies without compunction.
People judge the massacres of King David according to the "lights of his time". Even the fearful slaughters committed by the Christians in primitive times are judge according to the certain "lights". Why should not the defensive wars of the early Muslims be looked at from the same standpoint? But whatever the point of view, an unprejudiced mind will perceive that no blame can possibly attach to the Prophet in the execution of the Bani-Kureizha.
Well, as a superficial level one can just read the OT, and decide what part of it possibly sound it is from mens own word and what was possibly revealed by God.
I am really not upto digging up the OT.
The thread is entitled to the Bible, which includes some books in the Torah.
Whatever the original torah was it is unknown. What you may have is remnants of the torah in the scriptures with other stuff that is not.
Just do an internal and external criticism of the torah.
Last edited by Skillganon; 12-20-2006 at 05:06 AM.
One verse in the entire NT where Jesus' disciples have a sword in hand, the passage has nothing to do with people obeying or accepting Jesus but is on the occassion of his arrest. So, they bring it but Jesus does NOT tell Peter to use it. Peter does use it on his own and Jesus tells Peter to put the sword away. Jesus then heals the man who was injured by the sword. And Jesus final words on the subject are that one who lives by the sword will die by the sword.format_quote Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
These references are metaphors. It is not a call to pick up a sword. It has to do with the division that Jesus causes in the world as people make choices regarding him, it does in some instances bring division within families. We see that very clearly today when a Jew or a Muslim becomes a Christian, or when a Christian becomes a Muslim or a Jew. What you do with Jesus can bring division when others view him differently.There is another verse like that , i came as fire or sword ( 2 different versions have 2 different words ). So, why Jesus (P) told these ?
----hehe , nothing but it has to do something with Palestine. Jews & Christians deny that Muslims have any right over Palestine when ur own holy books clearly states that the First born son deserves double portion .[/QUOTE]
That Ishamael was the first born, does not necessarily entitle him to the double portion. Esau was the first born, but the inheritance went to Jacob. Further, God had decreed that he would send a son to Abraham and Sarah who would be the one to receive Abraham's inheritance. Ishmael was born to Hagar, not Sarah. So, Ishmael is not the son of the promise. Personally I think the Palestinians are getting a raw deal today, but you can't make a case from the stories of Abarham, Isaac, and Ishmael for them.
Wa Alaykum Assalaam,format_quote Originally Posted by New_Muslim
On another forum I go on occasionally a Christian on there stated that the Qur'an does not say the bible has been corrupted, and thus no reason for Islam. Can some one give me information as to where it is stated the Bible has been corrupted. Thank you
The Qur'an does mention that the followers of the previous books changed them:
And mix not truth with falsehood, nor conceal the truth [i.e. Muhammad Peace be upon him is Allâh's Messenger and his qualities are written in your Scriptures, the Taurât (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)] while you know (the truth). [2:42]
Know they (Jews) not that Allâh knows what they conceal and what they reveal?
And there are among them (Jews) unlettered people, who know not the Book, but they trust upon false desires and they but guess.
Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands and then say, "This is from Allâh," to purchase with it a little price! Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for that they earn thereby. [2:77-79]
And verily, among them is a party who distort the Book with their tongues (as they read), so that you may think it is from the Book, but it is not from the Book, and they say: "This is from Allâh," but it is not from Allâh; and they speak a lie against Allâh while they know it. [3:78]
And from those who call themselves Christians, We took their covenant, but they have abandoned a good part of the Message that was sent to them. So We planted amongst them enmity and hatred till the Day of Resurrection (when they discarded Allâh's Book, disobeyed Allâh's Messengers and His Orders and transgressed beyond bounds in Allâh's disobedience), and Allâh will inform them of what they used to do.
O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Now has come to you Our Messenger (Muhammad) explaining to you much of that which you used to hide from the Scripture and passing over (i.e. leaving out without explaining) much. Indeed, there has come to you from Allâh a light (Prophet Muhammad
Wherewith Allâh guides all those who seek His Good Pleasure to ways of peace, and He brings them out of darkness by His Will unto light and guides them to a Straight Way (Islâmic Monotheism). [5:14-16]
Regarding the story of Banu Qurayza that has been brought up, there was a thread about it here, which contains other relevant links:
http://www.islamicboard.com/basics-i...u-quraiza.html
And it has also been mentioned here: http://www.islamicboard.com/refutati...ws-medina.html
Seeing as this thread was going in different directions, I have decided to split the discussion about the accuracy of the Torah into the following thread:
http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...ted-torah.html
I think it is best to close the thread, since the original question has been answered and there are other threads which are open on the topic of whether the Bible is corrupted, such as:
Proof that the Bible is ‘Corrupted’
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