What are your fellow muslims exactly doing in my Island?

format_quote Originally Posted by SoyBoricua

You are kidding right?

First of all for starters no true Christian would be opening up Pubs as most of us Evangelical Christians anyhow do not drink nor smoke in the first place and you should know that everything that glitters is not necesarily gold...

Second of all it is the Dubai government that has been hiring westerners and Asians to build their hotels for them. Probably because otherwise all Dubai would have for hotels would be mudhuts or caves as it does not seem to have anyone capable of building such architecture... And unlike the muslims that have moved here the westerners in your beloved Dubai are working and not only that working to improve your country's infrastructure...


To England and the rest:

It seems that the original subject for this thread has been hijacked in favor of discussing UK's inmigration policies and whatnot when that was never the main subject. Please refrain yourselves from using this thread for such purposes as I'm sure there's plenty of other threads around on just that subject in one form or another...

In regards to the praying times that your fellow muslims have in the local mosque are this:
11:30 a.m.-1:30p.m on fridays! As I said is a time in which most locals and other non muslim inmigrants are working...

SoyBoricua; Dubai's Muslims created those jobs in the first place. If you dont have work you dont have jobs, do you. Plus, Dubai didnt force any Westerners to work there, they came themselves. The vast majority of Dubai's development was done by Muslims, non-Muslims were hired as well, to work. Other Muslim countries like Malaysia, UAE, Pakistan etc which have strongly developed their countries was also done by hard working Muslims. You're thinking along narrow lines.

Muslims who come to the West work hard for a living, they put money back into the ecomomy via their living expenses and spending, contributing to the ecomony through taxes as well, creating a multiplier effect, where other people benefit from their spending, e.g through creation of jobs due to an increased demand, and taxes.

PS: The Prayer time you listed is Friday prayers, which are very important.

Without reading all the posts here I can say one thing... If some of these imperialist countries don't like the immigrants flooding their gates, they should have given some thought to colonizing half the world. Because that is exactly what imperialism breeds... the so-called open door policies! Most cases the immigrants I have encountered are much more successful than the actual so-called citizens. When given an opportunity they went all the way.... this is especially true in the states! Unless you are an actual native American, then you are a mutt. And those immigrants who weren't so successful and just wanted a better life than say they had in Mexico have taken jobs most Americans would refuse to do. How many Americans here would like to plow the fields on some farm for 12 hours straight for $3.00 an hr. with no benefits and live 8 to a room?

In regards to the praying times that your fellow muslims have in the local mosque are this:
11:30 a.m.-1:30p.m on fridays! As I said is a time in which most locals and other non muslim inmigrants are working...

That is the time for Jummah in Puerto Rico. We do not pick and select our prayer times. Our prayer times were established over 1400 years ago and they are at the same time in every location. The Actual prayer time for Jummah in PR today is 12:34 PM The reason for the Mosque to be open from 11:30 t0 1:30 would be for the people to get ther in time to do wudu before the Jummah and then give time after Jummah for a few minutes of socializing before returning to work or whatever.

It is not an attempt to keep non-Muslims out. Also by having it set at that time it can be established for year round and it will assure that every body will be there for the exact time of prayer, which will vary from day to day as the days get longer and shorter.

Now you can say what you want. But I have personally experienced reverse bigotry when I was growing up as a kid in the Hartford area. Believe me you did not want to be a white kid and wander into the PR section of Hartford. I will not hold that against all PR's, and I will not go into Details. But, I assure you PR prejudice against white folks is very much alive and well. But in all fairness, I will say that many white folks were hostile towards Puerto Ricans.
I will say that to a very strong degree "West Side Story" was very Realistic.

I can honestly say I have never been met with any hostility or prejudice by any Muslims in my entire life. Even when I looked like a snow flake wandering around North Africa. Long before I reverted to Islam I have always found Muslims to be honest and trust worthy no matter what country I was in.

Really who are these architects that have so willingly built these mosques?

If you see people on well fare it must be because you are living on well fare yourself or else work for the well fare agency?... how else can you know some little factoid as such?

your posts are another barrage of sagacious-sounding comments, written authoritatively enough and passed out as true. When in fact they aren't.


here is a little report from the U.S govt..

The report said Middle Eastern immigrants were highly educated, with 49 percent holding at least a bachelor's degree, compared to 28 percent of natives.

Median earnings for Middle Eastern men were $39,000 a year compared to $38,000 for native workers.

they tend to be better-educated than native U.S. residents — about half hold bachelor's degrees, compared to 28 percent of natives. They also perform as well economically as natives — 30- and 40-year-old Middle Eastern males with a college education have the same median income as natives, and Middle East immigrants are more likely be self-employed.



and here yet another report!

Middle Eastern Immigrants in U.S. Educated, Prosperous, Study Says
Gannett News Service, August 15, 2002

(Also ran in Arizona Republic - 8/15)

WASHINGTON — Middle Eastern immigrants in the United States are well educated, earn more money than most Americans and are predominantly Muslim, according to a report released Wednesday.

They also are among the nation's fastest-growing immigrant groups, according to the report issued by the Center for Immigration Studies in Washington, a think tank that supports reducing the number of immigrants to the United States.

The report says the number of Middle Eastern immigrants increased from fewer than 200,000 in 1970 to almost 1.5 million in 2000. The overall number of foreign-born residents in the United States tripled to 31 million over the same period.

The report offers a rare portrait of an immigrant group that has received intense scrutiny and negative publicity since the Sept. 11 attacks.
Project MAPS, a survey of "Muslims in the American Public Square" conducted in 2001-2002 by researchers at Georgetown University, found that 86 percent of all Muslim professionals were concentrated in three careers: engineering, computer science, and medicine. Law, law enforcement, and politics accounted for a minuscule 0.6 percent. American Muslims, some demographers say, have also been voting well below their numbers in the population -- registering to vote at only half the national rate, according to the 2001 American Religious Identification Survey [PDF], a project of the Graduate Center of the City University of New York. "If they ever did play to their weight" in the electoral arena and in Washington, Muslims "would be a much more considerable force in public policy-making," says Steve Clemons, a Democrat who directs the American Strategy Program at the New America Foundation in Washington.



I have no reason to believe that England Muslims are any different than those in the united states!

So how about you write something a little bit worth while?...
actually better yet.. state what it is you really want from this post... what are you really after?

format_quote Originally Posted by SoyBoricua

That's a load of bologney. The enginers and architects that have built most of Dubai's modern architecture are in fact westerners... The muslims that do work on the contruction do the heavy lifting, operate cranes but did not do any the planing for most of what you see around that country today...

Do you even understand what you're saying? Westerners didnt wake up one day and say "Hey, lets go to Dubai and develop it, spending our own money."

Dubai Muslims fortified what was desert and worked hard to develop it. The Western people saw job opportunities in Dubai, an opportunity to make money and live in high standard, hence the immigration. Muslims created the jobs that non-Muslims applied to take. Of course many Muslims also took those jobs.

This is an interesting article highlighting even further development projects in an already highly developed and technological city of Dubai:

Dubai construction boom powers ahead
Dubai has always been a building site, but there are more large projects under construction now than ever before. This is a city in transition to a bigger future.

The biggest trade show in Dubai this year will not be the huge Gitex computer exhibition, but the Index furniture and interior design show that opens this Wednesday.

For construction, and not IT, is the boom industry in the Middle East today. Index will occupy all eight halls of the, appropriately enough, just refurbished Dubai International Exhibition Centre, as well as two temporary halls and the Al Multaqa Ballroom.

'Furniture and interior products imported into the Gulf rose by six per cent last year and 10% in 2000,' said organizer Joe Berger of dmg Index Exhibtions. 'Within the past 10 years this exhibition has grown six fold.'

There are two factors explaining the current construction boom: high oil prices and demographics.

The increase in oil revenues in the GCC states, up from $61 billion in 1998 to a current level of $150 billion per annum explains where the money is coming from. From the demand side, one of the world's fastest growing and youngest populations is pushing construction forward.

At the present time, the centre of the construction boom is undoubtedly Dubai. In the hotel sector alone there are plans to build 150 more hotels over the next five to seven years, expanding the number of hotel rooms from 20,000 in 1990 to 55,000.

Other new projects underway in Dubai are the $2 billion Dubai International Financial Centre, a huge office complex rumored to include a major skyscraper; the $2.5 billion expansion of the Dubai International Airport; the $3 billion Palm Island project; $1.6 billion Dubai Marina leisure and residential development; $1.6 billion Festival City mixed-use development; further phases of the Dubai Internet City and Media City; and the new Convention Centre at the Dubai World Trade Centre.

In addition, Emaar Properties is developing the Emirates Hills/Emirates Lakes into a massive residential new town, and Majid Al Futtaim has a massive shopping mall and indoor ski resort under construction on a nearby site.

Around the Gulf region shopping malls are under construction all over the place. But for now the focus of building activity is Dubai, and all these new offices, homes and hotels will need furniture and interior design. No wonder Index will outshine Gitex this year in Dubai.

http://www.ameinfo.com/16488.html

And you seem to have forgotten Malaysia, a developed Muslim country, along with many ares of Pakistan. Pakistan was cited by Harvard researches as the model of economic growth in the 1960s, and in the financial year 2005, Pakistan's growth was the second highest among in the world, first being China. Pakistani Muslims are working hard to develop their country. One example is a project in the city of Lahore, Defense area phase 8, where construction is going to develop that area in highly technical housing, infastructure, sanitation, technologically advanced theme parks, very high standard of living, etc. All this is going throughout Pakistan and Insha'Allah Pakistan will be fully developed soon.

Theres other examples of similar development in Muslim countries, particularly in UAE and Indonesia. You need to drop the hate for Muslims and think logically.

Dude you must be living in another dimension because I know for a fact that just in the U.K most muslims live by leeching off wellfare... Are there some that do work for a living? Sure there are but are few by comparison. And where I live most do not work hard for a living at all. They are instead mantained by some foreign overseas interest which is probably the same who built their mosque just as they have built most mosques around the world nowadays Saudi Arabia...

Dude, I live in UK, you live in Purto Rico, you know wot for a fact? Do you know, UK and other Western countries offer scholarship schemes for international countries, where the top students in a foreign country get a scholarship to work and study in UK, EU or US. They skills of these top students are utilised in economic development, and many of those top students are Muslims. As for other foreign students, Muslim and non-Muslim, to study in UK they have to pay very big fees, which they work to earn money to pay, plus they need to pay for living expenses such as accommodation, bills, food etc. The University fees alone are between £8,000-£24,000 a year, a lot of money, convert them to your currency to see how much they are. And thats the fees alone, excluding any living expenses. Muslims work very hard to pay them and study as well. Plus more people=more potential customers for businesses, Muslims pay for services which go towards economic development and add to a wider multiplier effect, that is one reason why Western countries have immigration, which means more man power, work power, and consumer spending, plus attracting the top students from around the world.

As for your area, I dont know why they came, but ever thought that they need to pay for living expenses and food, paying local businesses for their services= more cash flow.

My advise to you is, approach them in a polite manner, dont make it seem like they're not welcome. Imagine if you move to a predominately white area and some local whites approach you with angry forwns and demand to know why you're here, what you're doing here.....not very pleasent. Ask them in a polite and fitting manner as to their motivations, although i dont see any hidden agenda for their presense.

I know what they are but in despite of it all it all looks like is intended to avoid the locals and other working inmigrant groups at all costs especially when in combination to the other facts I've brought to bear on this thread and you and just about all your fellow muslims here consistenly ignore...

We're not ignoring you, read my last paragraph and read Woodrow's post. They are not trying to avoid locals, they need time for people to get into the Mosque for Friday prayer. Prayers are held in a congregation, and Friday prayers usually attract a lot of people, because of the importance put i congregation prayer/praying in a group, in unity.

format_quote Originally Posted by SoyBoricua

First of all the guy is not Puertorrican he is a Palestinian and he told me so himself...

I cannot go to the police just based on a suspicion! Just suspicious movements in and out and even the fact that a whole lot of them live being mantained by overseas funding would not be considered enough evidence to warrant an investigation on them and I was hoping that you guys could help me instead of having to resort reporting what me and quite a few others have observed to Homeland security.
And there's more: According to those that work nearby: The local mosque has remained close for at least 2 weeks, maybe more!

OK mate, can you clarify one thing about this Mosque, was it built recently? Or bought and converted? Are your suspicions aroused simply because they are Muslim or due to some other factor?

format_quote Originally Posted by SoyBoricua

First of all the guy is not Puertorrican he is a Palestinian and he told me so himself...

I cannot go to the police just based on a suspicion! Just suspicious movements in and out and even the fact that a whole lot of them live being mantained by overseas funding would not be considered enough evidence to warrant an investigation on them and I was hoping that you guys could help me instead of having to resort reporting what me and quite a few others have observed to Homeland security.
And there's more: According to those that work nearby: The local mosque has remained close for at least 2 weeks, maybe more!

Perhaps there has been some misunderstanding all around here. Just because we are Muslim does not mean we are from the mid east and speak fluent Arabic. I doubt if we have more than a handful of members from the Mideast.

We have as much difficulty in uinderstanding them as you would have in communicating with a Lithuanian Muslim as to why Polish Christians are moving into his predominantly Muslim town.

Although we do share the same religion we do not have the same cultures nor languages, as those arrivals in Puerto Rico.

As for the Mosque being closed it is very possible that because of the small Muslim population it is more practical to just keep one or 2 centraly located mosques open. It does not make much sense to keep a building open in an area where it is only going to be used 1 or 2 hours a week. Peurto Rico is only half the size of Connecticut. A central Mosque would be within 50 miles from everybody on the Island. Also there are less than 6,000 Muslims in all of Puerto Rico. Most Mosques have more members than that.

When I lived out side of Austin, the closest Mosque to me was further than that. I doubt if many Muslims would consider having to travel 50 miles much of a sacrifice for Jummah.

format_quote Originally Posted by SoyBoricua

Well It was probably built no less than 4 to 5 years ago tops so it is pretty recent. And no my suspicions are not based on that "Oh they are muslims" but plenty of other facts i've already given plenty of times accros this thread

I see, well at least one thing you can say is that outsiders are carrying out construction projects on your Island, good or bad thing? Usually good but you'd know more in this case for your Island.

and on top of that when one considers what has happened all over the world with people blowing themselves up and beheading left and right in the name of your religion yes I do have more than a legitimate concern as to what their intentions might be...

We could have long winded discussions on this topic, but i dont think u'd like that in this thread, you're welcome to open up an appropriate thread for the above topic, put simply, most of them are to do with material conflict rather than religion.

The facts are:
a) Not only we have this mosque and just about all other mosques in the Island having being built with Saudi money but it seems they are also supprting the muslims they are bringing from overseas to fill those mosques financially as well paying for their housing, clothing and food!

The Saudis finance Mosque building around the world, but i havent heard any cases of them financing people's living, maybe the Palestinians in question are Palestinian refugees who had to flee from Israeli aggression and land grabs, which the Saudis are helping them out until they can manage themselves? Just a suggestion.

b) The structure itself looks more like a fortress than a house of prayer...

c) Most of the Palestinians/Jordanians that currently go to the local mosque and the others in the Island do not speak either English nor Spanish I know because just after 9/11 I called the phone number listed for it (now that number is no longer in service incidentally) and the one that first answered spoke neither of the Island's main languages... The same I have noticed of those that ocassionally visit the gas station where I work at...

I see. I dont know maybe since they're new they're planning to learn the local language. I dont see any reason why they'd move to cause trouble. Being Muslims, our religion teaches us to love God and His creations and live in peace. For God loves those who are kind and just. You could approach someone who visits the Mosque if not those who run the Mosque? Although they probably dont have hidden motives, nothing wrong with being cautious if you suspect suspicious activity.

format_quote Originally Posted by ABWAN

Oh thats only for non muslims... Muslims are considered "special" in usa. all you need to do is just tell police. It wouldnt matter if those people are innocent or are indeed part of something fishy. If not Police....then your local news agency (or Fox news at the worst case)....the next day even if what you suspect doesnt turn out to be true, you will be in the news headlines and front page of CNN, Fox and BBC!!! thats one slick trick to get you so famous and would also increase awareness amongst your community and they would all keep an eye on these palestenians in future instead of just you!

^^^ yup ... (just saw a see something... say something) ad ... (wink wink.)..

I think soy here is lacking some action in his gas station and just wanted to dream an elaborate story. It is great to be part of something so clandestine and important... might even be declared a local hero... should start it yourself soy just to hasten the whole thing along.

unhappy if they are on well-fare and unhappy if they get their money from else where :enough!: ... ****ed if you do and ****ed if you don't I guess! This topic has had more than 15 mins of fame.

Islam in Puerto Rico: 2004 official data estimated there are 5,091 Muslims in Puerto Rico, representing about 0.13 percent of the population, although many Muslims on the island claim the numbers are much larger. The early Muslim community largely consisted of Palestinians who arrived between 1958 and 1962. At the time, the vast majority of Puerto Rico's Muslims lived in Río Piedras – a crowded suburb of San Juan – where they operated restaurants, jewelry stores and clothing outlets. For years a storefront mosque on Calle Padre Colón served the entire community. Today there are mosques and Islamic Centers in Aguadilla, San Juan, Hatillo, Ponce, Arecibo, and Río Piedras. The American Muslim Association of North America (AMANA) also has an office in Cayey. Similar to their counterparts in the United States (particularly New York), large numbers of indigenous Puerto Ricans are becoming interested in Islam.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Puerto_Rico

may Allah (swt) guide these interesting group of people to Islam Insha-allah