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    Re: please clarify this statement from the bible

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    For once I agree with old Paul.
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    Re: please clarify this statement from the bible

    ^
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    Re: please clarify this statement from the bible

    format_quote Originally Posted by Talha777 View Post
    For once I agree with old Paul.




    You agree that it was Hawa to blame and not both of them? And that therefore we must pay for Hawas mistake? Muslims don't believe in original sin...

    You agree that women aren't allowed to teach men? Didn't men come to Aisha to ask her for her opinion on scholarly issues? Isn't Aisha one of the top hadith narrators? If men aren't allowed to learn from women, why do we use her hadiths?

    "Full submission" is reserved for Allah alone... I am sure you would agree.

    Did you actually read it properly?
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    Re: please clarify this statement from the bible

    I dont agree with the whole passage, but I mean a woman should be subject to a man's authority like Islam says, if only Christians would follow the advice from their own Bible.

    "Evil omen is in the women, the house and the horse"
    -Prophet Muhammad (sallallaho alaihi wa salaam)
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    Re: please clarify this statement from the bible

    ^ erm bro that hadith is just the prophet quoting wat htey use 2 say in jahiliyyah! also as ibn qayyim explained the hadith as:

    "Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:
    “Another group said: regarding these three as bad omens only affects those who believe in that. Whoever puts his trust in Allaah and does not believe in omens and superstition, that does not affect him. They said: this is indicated by the hadeeth of Anas, ‘A bad omen only affects the one who believes in it.’ If a person believes in bad omens, Allaah may make that the cause of bad things happening to him, just as He may make trust in Him and making Him alone the focus of one's fear and hope one of the main causes of warding off evil that people may superstitiously expect."
    as for the rest... no the women isn't subject to the man's authority just for the sake of it... she only obeys her husband (not any man) only if he is in obedience ot Allah...

    we have great examples.. look at the old woman who repremanded abu bakr for example... just because she's a woman means she had to subjugate herself to a 'mans authority' and be quiet even tho she knew she was right?

    salams
    Last edited by lolwatever; 04-13-2007 at 12:57 PM.
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    Re: please clarify this statement from the bible



    format_quote Originally Posted by Talha777 View Post
    I dont agree with the whole passage, but I mean a woman should be subject to a man's authority like Islam says, if only Christians would follow the advice from their own Bible.

    "Evil omen is in the women, the house and the horse"
    -Prophet Muhammad (sallallaho alaihi wa salaam)
    evil omen as in those man or people who run after this world while forgeting that they will return to Allah. that has nothing to do with man's authority.

    I hope the mods come to clarify this issue, I won't say anything out of my ignorance.

    wasalam
    -SI-
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    Re: please clarify this statement from the bible



    Okay, next time you should be more careful so it doesn't look like you are endorsing views against Islamic teachings, inshaallah.

    (Some discussion of that hadith can be found here.)
    Last edited by Malaikah; 04-13-2007 at 12:51 PM.
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    Re: please clarify this statement from the bible

    No brother I don't think that is a quote of what they used to say in jahiliyah. Here is the whole hadith

    Narrated Ibn Umar (raa): Evil omen was mentioned before the Prophet (saws): The Prophet (saws) said, "If there is evil omen in anything, it is in the house, the woman and the horse." (Sahih Bukhari)
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    Re: please clarify this statement from the bible



    Please see here for an explanation of that hadith:
    http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=27192&ln=eng

    If you wish to take it further please do so in another thread... this thread is for our Christian members to clarify what is written in their bible.

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    Re: please clarify this statement from the bible

    Thank you for the link, but it is acknowledging difference of opinion on this issue, so I will not say you are wrong, neither you should say I am wrong.

    http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=27192&ln=eng
    The scholars differed concerning these ahaadeeth and how to reconcile them with the ahaadeeth that forbid tatayyur. Some of them interpreted them as they appear to be, and said that this is an exception from the ruling on tatayyur, i.e., that tatayyur is forbidden unless a person has a house which he does not want to live in, or a wife whom he does not want to keep company with, or a horse or servant, all of which he should get rid of by selling them, or by divorcing the wife.
    Jazak Allah khair.
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    Re: please clarify this statement from the bible

    ^ how about start another thred on it.. just because some interpreted it that way doesnt mean its the righ topinion, if you read on you'll understand that it's contradictory to simple islamic principle..

    also notic ethe wording of the hadith... "If there is evil omen in anything"

    just like "if i was to command somoene to prostrate to someone... i'd command wife 2 prostrate to hubby..."

    that doesnt mean that she should innit?

    salamz

    ps: u mgiht be right i think i confused abotu jahilliyah with another hadith... but the point is that it doesnt meant here is evil in them, it's a figurativ speech. and the correct view is mentioned at the end with the evidence.
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    Re: please clarify this statement from the bible




    Bro, thats explained by Aa'isha (may Allaah be pleased with her) herself:

    Answering false claim nr.2:


    ‘an answer to the false claim that evil omen is in the women’

    (misunderstood hadith) Volume 7, Book 62, Number 30:

    Narrated Abdullah bin 'Umar: Allah's Apostle said, "Evil omen is in the women, the house and the horse.'


    Answer: the Hadith mentioned above has come in most of the major books of Hadith in the words near to the ones quoted here. However, the following text of it contained in the sixth volume of Imam Ahmad Ibn Hanbal’s Musnad presents the true picture in this regard:


    * Abu-Hassan reports that two people came to A’ishah and said to her that Abu Hurayrah narrates that the Prophet used to say that bad luck is to be found only in women, horses and houses. At this A’ishah replied: By the God who revealed the Qur’an to the Prophet! The Prophet never said this; what he did say was that the People of the Jahilliyyah hold this opinion…

    It is evident from this text of the Hadith that this saying has been erroneously attributed to the Prophet (sws). He had actually quoted the views held by the people of Jahilliyyah (age of ignorance).


    source: http://www.answering-christianity.co...of_hadiths.htm
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    Re: please clarify this statement from the bible



    "if i was to command somoene to prostrate to someone... i'd command wife 2 prostrate to hubby..."

    That shows how much rights and duties the man has towards his wife anyway


    But yeah - back on topic inshaa Allaah.
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    Re: please clarify this statement from the bible



    ...and for a moment I thought Fi_ Sab was going to tell everyone to stay on topic...

    EDIT- ah, good. He did, (after getting involved in the off-topic discussion) still good stuff though...
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    Talha777's Avatar
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    Re: please clarify this statement from the bible

    I do not wish to open a whole new thread on something like this, which is just a difference of opinion on a hadith.

    also notic ethe wording of the hadith... "If there is evil omen in anything"

    just like "if i was to command somoene to prostrate to someone... i'd command wife 2 prostrate to hubby..."
    Yes, but there is another hadith which says for definite:

    Narrated Abdullah bin Umar (raa): I heard the Prophet (saws) saying "Evil omen is in three things: The horse, the woman and the house." (Sahih Bukhari)

    "There is neither 'Adha nor Tiyara, and an evil omen is only in three: a horse, a woman and a house." (Sahih Bukhari, Kitabut Tiba)

    So this and a few other ahadith confirm that it is more than "if". Jazak Allah khair.
    Last edited by Talha777; 04-13-2007 at 01:36 PM.
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    Re: please clarify this statement from the bible

    ^ refer 2 fi's post.. he foudn teh ref 4 my first thing about jahiliyyah

    now.. bak 2topic.. sorry thread starter..




    ps: now that the quote was actually attributed 2 jahiliyyah.. im definate there's a thread about that exact hadith.. perhaps mods could post those posts about that hadith into the other thread...?
    Last edited by lolwatever; 04-13-2007 at 01:17 PM.
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    Re: please clarify this statement from the bible

    13For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner
    I dont agree that only Eve was deceived and not Adam (alaihi salaam), this is clearly a contradiction in their own Bible, which attributes blame to both, albeit Eve was more at fault.

    "Had it not been for Eve, woman would have never acted unfaithfully towards her husband."
    -Prophet Muhammad (sallallahu alaihi wa salaam)
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    Re: please clarify this statement from the bible

    Ya Allah, I hope another debate isn't sparked over that hadith now... :X
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    Re: please clarify this statement from the bible




    Bro ^ In Islaam both Adam and Eve are blamed equally for eating from the tree:

    But Satan whispered evil to him: he said, "O Adam! shall I lead thee to the Tree of Eternity and to a kingdom that never decays?"

    In the result, they both ate of the tree, and so their nakedness appeared to them: they began to sew together, for their covering, leaves from the Garden: thus did Adam disobey his Lord, and allow himself to be seduced.

    [Qur'an 20: 120-1]



    Tafsir of that verse:


    Then Shaytan whispered to him, saying: "O Adam! Shall I lead you to the Tree of Eternity and to a kingdom that will never waste away'') It has already been mentioned that he caused them to fall through deception.

    [وَقَاسَمَهُمَآ إِنِّي لَكُمَا لَمِنَ النَّـصِحِينَ ]


    (And he swore by Allah to them both: "Verily, I am one of the sincere well-wishers for you both.'') [7:21] It has already preceded in our discussion that Allah took a promise from Adam and his wife that although they could eat from every fruit, they could not come near a specific tree in Paradise. However, Iblis did not cease prodding them until they both had eaten from it. It was the Tree of Eternity (Shajarat Al-Khuld). This meant that anyone who ate from it would live forever and always remain. A Hadith has been narrated which mentions this Tree of Eternity. Abu Dawud At-Tayalisi reported from Abu Hurayrah that the Prophet said,


    «إِنَّ فِي الْجَنَّةِ شَجَرَةً يَسِيرُ الرَّاكِبُ فِي ظِلِّهَا مِائَةَ عَامٍ مَا يَقْطَعُهَا، وَهِيَ شَجَرَةُ الْخُلْد»


    (Verily, in Paradise there is a tree which a rider can travel under its shade for one hundred years and still not have passed it. It is the Tree of Eternity.) Imam Ahmad also recorded this narration. Concerning Allah's statement,




    [فَأَكَلاَ مِنْهَا فَبَدَتْ لَهُمَا سَوْءَتُهُمَا]


    (Then they both ate of the tree, and so their private parts became manifest to them,) Ibn Abi Hatim recorded that Ubayy bin Ka`b said that the Messenger of Allah said,


    «إِنَّ اللهَ خَلَقَ آدَمَ رَجُلًا طُوَالًا كَثِيرَ شَعْرِ الرَّأْسِ، كَأَنَّهُ نَخْلَةُ سَحُوقٍ،فَلَمَّا ذَاقَ الشَّجَرَةَ سَقَطَ عَنْهُ لِبَاسُهُ، فَأَوَّلُ مَا بَدَا مِنْهُ عَوْرَتُهُ، فَلَمَّا نَظَرَ إِلَى عَوْرَتِهِ جَعَلَ يَشْتَدُّ فِي الْجَنَّةِ، فَأَخَذَتْ شَعْرَهُ شَجَرَةٌ فَنَازَعَهَا، فَنَادَاهُ الرَّحْمَنُ: يَا آدَمُ مِنِّي تَفِرُّ، فَلَمَّا سَمِعَ كَلَامَ الرَّحْمَنِ قَالَ: يَا رَبِّ لَا، وَلَكِنِ اسْتِحْيَاءً، أَرَأَيْتَ إِنْ تُبْتُ وَرَجَعْتُ أَعَائِدِي إِلَى الْجَنَّةِ؟ قَالَ: نَعَم»


    (Verily, Allah created Adam as a tall man with an abundance of hair on his head. He looked like a clothed palm tree. Then, when he tasted (the fruit of) the tree, his clothes fell off of him. The first thing that became exposed was his private parts. So when he noticed his nakedness, he tried to run back into Paradise. However, in the process a tree caught hold of his hair (i.e. his hair was tangled in a tree), so he ripped his hair out. Then, the Most Beneficent called out to him saying, "O Adam, are you fleeing from me'' When he heard the Words of the Most Beneficent, he said, "No my Lord, but I am ashamed. If I repent and recant would You let me return to Paradise'' Allah replied, "Yes.'')








    Last edited by - Qatada -; 04-13-2007 at 01:39 PM.
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    Re: please clarify this statement from the bible

    Bro ^ In Islaam both Adam and Eve are blamed equally for eating from the tree
    Yes I know.
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