EDIT: This post has been moved to the beginning of the thread.
In order to understand this issue, we need to examine the Islamic law on apostasy. Since religion is looked on as a personal affair in western society, the notion of state intervention in one's personal choice would naturally seem excessive. However, from the Islamic perspective, a number of points must be observed with regard to apostasy:1. Islam has never compelled anyone to accept the religion. Anyone who becomes a Muslim does so purely through objective study of the religion. As Allah has informed us in the Qur'an:So an Islamic state is certainly justified in punishing those who betray the state, committing treason and support enemy forces. As for anyone else, if they do not publicly declare their rejection of Islam, the state has no interest in pursuing them; if their case does become public, however, then they should be reasoned with and educated concerning the religion so that they have the opportunity to learn the concepts they may not have understood properly and they can be encouraged to repent.
2:256 There is no compulsion in religion.
10:99 So would you (O Muhammad) then compel people to become believers?
Likewise, Islam encourages its followers to reflect and contemplate upon the universe around us and to ponder over the beauty of the Qur'anic message:
47:24 Do they not ponder over the Qur'an or are their hearts locked up?
51:20-21. And on earth are signs for those endowed with inner-certainty; and [likewise there are signs] in yourselves, do you not observe?
29:20 Say: "Travel through the earth and see how Allah did originate creation; so will Allah produce a later creation: for Allah has power over all things.
Thus, Islam requires that one's faith be constructed upon logical investigation and study of the universe in which we live. Through logical contemplation, one realizes the supreme authority of the Creator and the veracity of Muhammad's (saws) claim to prophethood. Thus we find that, in the history of Islam, no knowledgeable Muslim has ever left Islam. The only cases we find of former Muslims are people who were never practicing Muslims in the first place, nor did they ever have a good understanding of Islam. Yet on the other hand, the list of educated converts to Islam is immense, and it includes educated leaders such as priests, rabbis and atheists.
2. Those who have left Islam have historically fallen under three categories: those who left having never properly understood the religion often due to social circumstances, those who faked a conversion into Islam in order to undermine the Islamic community from within, and those who left to support opposing forces in battle against the Muslims. Because of the first category, Islam requires that the person who has chosen to forsake the religion be consulted with in order that his doubts may be clarified to him if there is any specific issue of confusion, or so that he may learn the proper Islamic teachings that he may otherwise have not been exposed to. As for the second and third category, this was the original reason behind the Prophet's statement on apostasy. The Qur'an records (3:72) that the Jews of Madinah decided to initiate the practice of pretending to accept Islam and then publicly declare their rejection of it, so as to destroy the confidence of the newly-converted Muslims. Thus, the Prophet Muhammad pbuh ruled that a punishment should be announced so that those who decide to accept Islam do so because of a firm conviction not in order to harm the Muslim community from within.
3. Coming to the actual law of apostasy, the Prophet Muhammad pbuh did say, in the above historical context, "Whoever replaces his religion, execute him" (Bukhari, Abu Dawud) but how exactly do we understand this statement and does it conflict with the principles of freedom? The Prophet Muhammad pbuh himself clarified this statement in another hadith narrated in Sahih Muslim where he mentioned that the one who was to be fought against was the one who "abandons his religion and the Muslim community". It should be noted that every country has maintained punishments, including execution, for treason and rebellion against the state (See Mozley and Whitley's Law Dictionary, under "Treason and Treason Felony," pp. 368-369). Islam is not just a set of beliefs, it is a complete system of life which includes a Muslim's allegiance to the Islamic state. Thus, a rejection against that would be akin to treason. Rebellion against God is more serious than rebellion against one's country. However, one who personally abandons the faith and leaves the country would not be hunted down and assassinated, nor would one who remains inside the state conforming to outward laws be tracked down and executed. The notion of establishing inquisition courts to determine peoples' faith, as done in the Spanish Inquisition, is something contrary to Islamic law. As illustrated by the historical context in which it was mandated, the death penalty is mainly for those who collaborate with enemy forces in order to aid them in their attacks against the Islamic state or for those who seek to promote civil unrest and rebellion from within the Islamic state. When someone publicly announces their rejection of Islam within an Islamic state it is basically a challenge to the Islamic government, since such an individual can keep it to themselves like the personal affair it is made out to be.
4. From Islamic history, we can gain a better understanding of how this law has been implemented. Although the Prophet Muhammad pbuh threatened the death penalty in response to the attempts against the Muslim community, no such executions took place in his time (Imam Shawkani, Nayl Al-Awtar, vol. 7, p. 192) even though there is a report that a Bedouin renounced Islam and left Madinah unharmed in his time (Fath Al-Bari vol. 4, p.77 and vol. 13 p. 170; Sahih Muslim biSharh An-Nawawi, vol. 9, p. 391). Thus, we find that context plays an important role in determining how to deal with apostates. The case of one who enlists nations to fight against the Islamic state is more serious, for example. That is why the scholars of the Hanafi school of thought felt that the punishment only applies to the male apostate and not the female apostate because the latter is unable to wage war against the Islamic state. If someone simply has some doubts concerning Islam, then those doubts can be clarified.
From another of my posts:
format_quote Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'AdlAs a side note, this has already happened, examples include the spanish inquisition. But on to your question...format_quote Originally Posted by blunderbus
First of all, the law on apostasy has been explained here and here. It is commonly taken out of context, but the point to note is that the Prophet Muhammad (saws) clarified that the one to be punished was the one who rebelled against the community. This is quite similar to state laws on treason. A state is justified in taking action against those who pose a significant threat. But the idea of setting up an inquisition to examine the beliefs of the people is against Islamic teachings, so someone who personally changes their religious convictions will be insignificant in the eyes of the state. It is the one who publically announces his rebellion, stirring civil unrest, who must be opposed. While the Christian inquisitions were bent on examining (through the use of torture) the beliefs of those Muslims and Jews who outwardly professed conversion to Christianity, in an Islamic state, someone who even outwardly professes acceptane of Islam is left alone because they cause no harm to society, and the Islamic state is only interested in the security of its society.
If someone poses a threat to a state's security, then they are justified in taking action against them. But if someone changes their personal religious views, then it is quite extreme for the state to attempt to pry into the hearts of its citizens to determine their faith and punish them.
_______
Material from this post has been added to this article:
http://www.load-islam.com/artical_de...conceptions#28
Assalamu alaikumformat_quote Originally Posted by Abdul Azizhow are they dealt with?according to Islam?What does the Quran say about their punishment?
please help me on this matter bros and sis.
Please go to the following link:
http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=en...v=browse&dgn=4
You can do any research.
The Causes of Apostasy and the Islamic Remedy
In most cases, apostasy stems from the onset of doubt in the belief of the apostate. Islam has remedied this problem in the following manner:
1. Islam, from the onset, has never compelled anyone to accept it as his or her religion. It should be safe to assume that the individual – as long as he or she is not being confronted with any material or spiritual coercion – will never accept Islam except on account of conviction. Allah says:
- There is no compulsion in faith.
- So would you (O Muhammad) then compel people to become believers?
2. Islam encourages the development of the faculty of reason, expanding its horizons to contemplate on the signs within the person’s body and the signs in the surrounding environment. It encourages researching and contemplating the Qur’ân as well as history. Allah says:
- In the Earth are signs for those who are certain, and in themselves (as well). Will they not then see?”
- Say (O Muhammad): “Behold all that is in the heavens and the Earth.”
- Say (O Muhammad): ‘Travel in the land and see how He originated Creation.”
- Have they not pondered the word?
- Do they not ponder the Qur’ân?
- Say (O Muhammad): “Travel in the land and see what was the end of those before you. Most of them were polytheists.”
- Have they not traveled through the land, and have they not hearts wherewith to understand and ears wherewith to hear?
Thus, Islam requires that conviction be built upon the results of deep investigation and contemplation into Creation, including oneself, and into life and history, as well as the Qur’ân. From this, the precision in the governance of the universe and the wonder of its creation will be revealed, as well as how this requires that Allah alone must possess divinity. In this way, conviction in Islam becomes established on the basis of these clear and obvious conclusions. This establishes the believer’s faith on the basis of evidence as opposed to blind following, and on the basis of sound arguments as opposed to conjecture.
3. Islam grants the individual an opportunity to repent. In this fixed period of time, he has the opportunity to present and freely discuss his problem so that his misconceptions can be removed and the issues that give him doubt can be clarified by rational proofs and tangible evidence. If he returns to faith – even if only with his tongue – his life will remain inviolable and his rights and honor will be upheld.Both from:Apostasy Apostasy is defined as a Muslim making a statement or performing an action that takes him out of the fold of Islam. The punishment prescribed for it in the Sunnah is execution, and it came as a remedy for a problem that existed at the time of the Prophet (peace be upon him). This problem was that a group of people would publicly enter into Islam together then leave Islam together in order to cause doubt and uncertainty in the hearts of the believers. The Qur’ân relates this event to us:
A group from the People of the Scripture said: ‘Believe in what came down upon those who believe at the beginning of the day, then disbelieve at the end of the day, so perhaps they might return from faith.
Thus, the prescribed punishment for apostasy was instituted so that apostasy could not be used as a means of causing doubt in Islam.
At the same time, the apostate is given time to repent, so if he has a misconception or is in doubt about something, then his cause of doubt can be removed and the truth clarified to him. He is encouraged to repent for three days.
http://islamtoday.net/english/discov...&sub_cat_id=48
Although the IslamToday team provides a clear and simplistic explanation, this issue is actually deeper than this and I intend, inshaa'Allah, to provide a closer analysis of the various views in light of the Qur'an, Ahadith and 'Ijmaa of the scholars, in the future.
Other links:
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...=1119503544134
http://muslim-canada.org/APOSNOFR.HTM#four
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http://www.ymofmd.com/books/zb_mri/i...man_rights.htm
Question.
If a Muslim leaves Islam, what do Muslims call him? And what is the Islamic prescribed sentence for the one who leaves Islam. Please send me as soon as possible. Thank you very much.
In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.
Dear questioner! Thank you very much for this question that reflects deep insight and true search for knowledge. May Allah grant you success in this life and the Hereafter.
It goes without saying that, leaving Islam is the ugliest and the worst form of disbelief (kufr) in Almighty Allah. It is technically called ridda (apostasy from Islam), and someone who leaves Islam is called a murtadd (apostate).
The Qur'an makes it clear that the one who leaves Islam, hinders people from the path of Allah and then dies as such will be a loser on the Day of Judgment. His eternal abode will be Hell, where he/she will suffer severe torture and endless chastisement. Allah will not forgive him/her, nor will any of his/her good deeds be accepted from him/her. Allah Almighty says: "Lo! Those who disbelieve and turn from the way of Allah and then die disbelievers, Allah surely will not pardon them." (Muhammad: 34)
Also, the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, is reported to have said: "The blood of a Muslim who testifies that there is no god but Allah and that I am the Messenger of Allah is not lawful to shed unless he be one of three: a married adulterer, someone killed in retaliation for killing another, or someone who abandons his religion and the Muslim community.''
The prescribed punishment for a murtadd:
If a sane person who has reached puberty voluntarily apostatizes from Islam, he deserves to be punished. In such a case, it is obligatory for the caliph (or his representative) to ask him to repent and return to Islam. If he does, it is accepted from him, but if he refuses, he is immediately killed.
No one besides the caliph or his representative may kill the apostate. If someone else kills him, the killer is disciplined (for arrogating the caliph's prerogative and encroaching upon his rights, as this is one of his duties).
There is no blood money for killing an apostate (or any expiation). If he apostatizes from Islam and returns several times, his return to Islam, which occurs when he states the two Testifications of Faith, is accepted from him, although he is disciplined.
If a spouse in a consummated marriage apostatizes from Islam, the couple are separated for a waiting period (`iddah) consisting of three intervals between menstrual cycles. If the spouse returns to Islam before the waiting period ends, the marriage is not annulled but is considered to have continued the whole time.
(Based on 'The Reliance of the Traveler, by Ahmad Ibn Naqib Al-Misri, with some amendments.)
In addressing the issue of apostasy it is important to keep in mind the time, circumstances and the conditions that existed at the time of a particular ruling or judgment. Most modern governments do not apply Shari`ah law. However, this does not justify individuals taking it upon themselves to kill people if they apostatize from Islam. If this were to happen, such reckless action would only lead to a vicious circle of murder and homicide in which case a great deal of innocent people would be injured. As it stands presently, the means for dealing with apostasy are appropriate. Muslims should know that Almighty Allah has promised the apostate a severe punishment in this life, and an even greater punishment in the next life.
You can also read:
Source of the Punishment for Apostasy
Allah Almighty knows best.
As-salamu alaykum
i am gathering some information concerning the following quotation:
now i know Allah does clearly say in his word "If anyone desires a religion other than Islam never will It be accepted of Him" (Quran 3:85)"It is our opnion that whovever claims the acceptability of any exsisting religion today-other than Islam-such as Judaism, Christianity and so forth is a non believer. He should be asked to repent. If he does not, he must be killed as an apostate because he is rejecting the Quran (Sheikh Muhammad as Saleh al Uthaimin. The Muslim Belief. pg 22)
and whoever of the Muslims deny this will become an apostate unless he turns to his Lord in repentance, but i need more information on this and just excatly how to answer this.
I am not concerned that i wont find answers by myself, but im sure there are people much expierenced here that will give satisfactory answers that i can take from and utilise ...thank you and wasalams
the Quran says nothing about killing.I am against the killing..Its all these opinions.as for the killing for apostates the situation was different.
Sahih Bukhari:
Volume 8, Book 82, Number 794:
Narrated Anas:
Some people from the tribe of 'Ukl came to the Prophet and embraced Islam. The climate of Medina did not suit them, so the Prophet ordered them to go to the (herd of milch) camels of charity and to drink, their milk and urine (as a medicine). They did so, and after they had recovered from their ailment (became healthy) they turned renegades (reverted from Islam) and killed the shepherd of the camels and took the camels away. The Prophet sent (some people) in their pursuit and so they were (caught and) brought, and the Prophets ordered that their hands and legs should be cut off and that their eyes should be branded with heated pieces of iron, and that their cut hands and legs should not be cauterized, till they die.
Last edited by Bittersteel; 01-03-2006 at 02:15 PM.
As-Salamau alaykum
I will be sure to scrutinise these and and the subject and report my findings after research, i am not proud about asking for help, its not about MY articles, infact i am trying to compile a book thats deals with such issues and i am trying to put it in the best way possible ...
please note i am a Muslim but the purpose of this post is to find answers and points and so forth ...for example i have been made aware that penal punishments such as stoning , and killing for apostasy are also valid God given laws also contained with in the Bible and Jesus clearly stated these rules were here to stay in Matthew chapter 5 verse 17 onwards.
I need more answers and points and i know the Muslims here are very clever and are good at answering satisfactorily .....so i dont want no bad reputation points for posting this ....nor would i like this thread to be edited because then i may loose out on much needed knowledge and sources to refernce on this issue.
MODERATOR'S COMMENT: YOU ARE FREE TO ASK QUESTIONS BUT PLEASE DO NOT COPY ANTI-ISLAMIC ARTICLES!
i definately need answers to the last part of this so if any of you brothers sisters feel you can contribute to this then please do so ...and thank you wasalams
Dr. Abu Ameenah Bilal Philips gives the following explanation:
This has already been answered here:format_quote Originally Posted by Abrar
http://www.load-islam.com/C/rebuttals/Misquoted/#18
The book is still in the works, but these are the notes based on his series of lectures entitled Contemporary Issues.
http://www.ilmquest.org/osc/product_...roducts_id=238
As-salamu alaykum, i agree that was an excellent peice of quotation about capital punishment that i wont fail to use when drawing up an article about this ....if anybody has anything else to throw my way then please do ....wasalams
that was an amazing answer do you mind if i run of with that one?
format_quote Originally Posted by Andaraawus
I'm glad you found it useful, alhamdulilah. In case I use it in a future article, just mention where you got my answer from if you plan to use it, inshaa'Allah.
Btw, your discussion with POBook was moved here:
Death Penalty
As salamalikum
Many people say that a person who left islam should not get the death penalty. Well what about these hadeeth that clearly tell us to execute the person who leaves Islam?
Sayyiduna Ibn Abbaas radhi allahu anhuma says: Nabi sallalahu alayhi wasallam said "Execute the one who renegades from his Deen." (Sahih al-Bukhariy Hadith6299, Sunan al-Nasaa’iy)
Sayyiduna ‘Uthmaan radhiyallahu anhu narrates hearing Nabi Sallallahu alayhi wa sallam as saying "……The one who changes his religion after accepting Islam must be executed." (Sunan al-Nasaa’iy Hadith4057)
Sayyiduna Abdullah radhiallahu anhu narrates Nabi Sallallahu alayhi wa sallam as saying "It is not Halaal to kill a Muslim except for 3 reason: …no.3.The one that turns away from his Deen, thereby disassociating himself from the group of Muslims."(Sahih Muslim Hadith4351)
Also the four Imams have had the same views on someone leaving islam.
Al-Hanafiyyah
Imam al-Marghinaaniy says: "If a Muslim, may Allah forbid turns away from Islam, the religion of Islam should be presented to him. If he has any doubts they should be cleared…and he should be kept under supervision for 3 days. If he reverts to Islam, he must be set free, otherwise he should be executed. (Al-Hidaya) Allamah Ibn ‘Aabideen says: "Note well! It is unanimous that a renegade from Islam must be executed" (Rasaa’il Ibn Aabideen)
Al-Maalikiyyah
Imam Maalik says: "The one who renegades from Islam to another religion and exposes it will be asked to repent from his action. If he does not repent, he must be executed." (Al-Mu’atta lil Imam Maalik)
Al-shaafi’iyyah
Imam al-Shaafi’iy says: "One who renegades from Islam will not be left alone, either he reverts to Islam or he will be executed." (Kitab al-Umm)
Al-Hanaabilah
Allamah Ibn Qudaama al-Hanbaliy says: "All the scholars are unanimous that a renegade must be executed." (Al-Mughniy with Sharh al-Kabir Vol.10 Pg.74 Dar al-Kutub al-Ilmiyyah Beirut)
Many muslims use this as there defence 2:256 There is no compulsion in religion. but the hadeeth talks about someone leaving islam after becoming muslim and the Ayat talks about someone being forced to except Islam. We cannot force a christian but when a muslim leaves his religion we should educate him about Islam but if he still does not except or revert back to islam then he should be excuted.
Last edited by Islamicboy; 03-29-2006 at 08:24 PM.
salama
chk this out
Kill the Apostate
“Whoever changes his religion (Islam), kill him” (Bukhari)
“The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas (retribution) for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims." (Bukhari)
The case of the apostate facing trial in Afghanistan, with the remote prospect of being sentenced to death, has brought swift reaction from the West. It is truly amusing to see the heads of European states reacting to the possible death of one man while they find it easy to aid the murder of thousands of Iraqis. What kind of twisted moral barometer causes such a reaction in one case, but not the other?
This week we learnt that American marines murdered 15 members of an Iraqi family in cold blood, including a three year old child. No problem, say the leaders of Europe, but the trial of the Afghan apostate is too much for them. You can’t kill an apostate, but kill as many Muslims as you need to improve the balance sheet of the party donors! This is the source of their moral barometer, as the apostate case is opposing secular values of freedom of religion, while the occupation and murder of Iraqis is conforming to secular interests of spreading freedom and democracy!
Many individuals in the Secular West find it hard to understand that capital punishment prescribed for changing religion, because religion has no importance in the West, it is reduced to one of personal taste, and the principle of freedom of religion facilitates easy apostasy. Of course this is also rooted in European history, where religious intolerance by the Church was immense.
In Islam, society is supposed to be governed by religion; where apostasy is the secular equivalent of treason not a matter of personal choice for Muslims. Many Christians and Jews have jumped on the anti-Islamic bandwagon, and have joined hands with their secular colleagues, without realising that such penal codes also exists in their religions.
I wish someone would tell these Zionist-Christians and the Muslim moderates that: freedom of religion is not a religious notion, it is a secular notion. Can the God of any religion say to its subject, believe in me as long as you are happy, but if you are not happy then move over to the next religion? In that case the religion is clearly stating that it does not hold the ultimate truth. If a religion does not have conviction in its own values, its followers are certainly not going to have conviction either. Now what kind of religion is that?
As expected, the moderates have responded by giving dubious interpretations to claim that the law of apostasy is not part of Islam, and to look acceptable, they promote the idea that Muslims have freedom of religion. Do they? I thought once you subscribe to Islam you are bound by the laws of Islam, so where is the freedom. The world is divided between the sick moderates and healthy radicals. These sick moderates work hard to make Islam appealing to non-Muslims, in such a manner that it becomes fully compatible with liberal democracy. What is the significance of Islam, if it is interpreted to make it compatible to everything else?
Their (moderates) view is not shaped by Islam but as a result of the media onslaught; for them the problem of negative representation of Islam can only be solved by representing it correctly, which translates to satisfying the hostile critics. So they ‘reinterpret’ the Quran, which in turn is used to remove and/or reinterpret the clear evidences from the Hadiths, hoping they would arrive at a point, when the attack from the West would cease. Not true, the west does not need an excuse to attack Islam and Muslims, as the recent cartoon incident showed, and they need even less of an excuse to murder Muslims, as the murder of the Iraqis continues to demonstrate. In fact the West has been demonising Muslims, for centuries, and it has nothing to do with the conduct of the Muslims or even the values of Islam.
Unable to defend the Islamic penal code, moderates start to deny sound evidences from Hadiths, take selected verses out of context and offer an explanation that negates centuries of scholarship, going back to the companions of the Prophet (SAW). The majority view of the Scholars (Ulemas) is that: apostasy is punishable by death, but there is a minority view which says it is only punishable by death, if the apostate has committed actions of a belligerent nature against the Islamic state and the Muslims.
The moderates raise the Quran, as evidences from the examples (Sunnah) of the Prophet (SAW) are very clear on this issue, as is the early examples of His companions. So let us look at how they provide a false interpretation using the Quran, with a few examples.
They selectively quote the verses and one of the most popular one is from the Chapter of Baqarah: “There is no compulsion in religion” (2:256, AL-Quran). But if they looked further they would also see the verse: “Whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it will not be accepted from him, he will be the looser in the hereafter” (3:85, Al-Quran). One of the basic rules in interpreting Quranic verses is that you must take into account all the verses on the same theme, so that they synchronise and are consistent, and not contradictory.
If Muslims have freedom of religion to apostasise according to the first verse (2:256), as the moderates argue, but clearly they do not according to the second verse (3:85). This verse clearly states that by apostatising they would be the losers, meaning they will be in hellfire, punished. Hence to apostasise is an illegal act (Haram).So how does Allah (SWT) say in one place you are free to choose any religion and then tells the Muslims if you choose another religion you will be punished, surely that would be a contradiction? You can not be free to choose if the only choice you have is Islam!
Of course many would have deduced that the two verses, are not addressing the same category of people, or addressing the same subject. The first verse (2:256) is in only addressing the non-Muslims as rationally only they have the choice to accept or reject Islam but not the Muslims. But once the non-Muslims accept Islam, they are bound by its rules and the verse 3.85 becomes applicable to them. Just like you are free to join the army but once you join you can’t walk out freely, you are bound by the rules.
The moderates partially cite verses where Allah (SWT) is informing that we are ‘free’ to do what we like on earth, while they omit that we will be held accountable for our actions because our choice is supposed to be exercised in a particular way - well in that case there is no real freedom. In this sense neither Muslims nor non-Muslims are free to choose anything other than Islam. As verse (3:85) clearly states, no choice except Islam. In fact even according to the verse (2:256) the non-Muslims they only have a choice because Allah (SWT) has not compelled them through the Sharia laws to become Muslims, they should enter Islam willingly. As the sentence after “There is no compulsion in religion” (2:256), states: “truly the right way has become clearly distinct from error; therefore, whoever disbelieves in the Taghout and believes in Allah he indeed has laid hold on the firmest handle, which shall not break off, and Allah is Hearing, Knowing.” clearly pointing out, if they do not choose Islam they will be accountable and face the consequence in the hereafter.
The moderates in fact make the confusion between freewill and having the freedom to choose legally per the Islamic law, i.e. a legal permit. They selectively cite verses like 2:256 and this: "Say (Muhammad it is) truth from Lord of all. Whosoever will, let him believe, and whosoever will, let him disbelieve." [18:29] to claim that we have freedom of religion as Muslims. Nope, we are not free to choose we have the ability to choose! The idea of freedom in the verse 18:29 is clearly referring to freewill; it is a description of the reality that we have been given the ability to exercise our freewill; this ability to exercise freewill is not a legal permit. Hence, it is not evidence of permission from Allah (SWT), for Muslims to apostasise using the bogus claim that Islam caters for freedom of religion!
If the Muslims had the right to apostasies by making dubious interpretations of selected verses, and proclaiming freedom of religion, then they would have the right to do anything else, by that same argument. Therefore, we can take another example, we as Muslim have the ability to use our sexual organs in anyway we please as Allah (SWT) has given us the ability and free will (not the right) to use it in any way we please and commit fornication. But clearly we do not have the right from Islam to do that, as Allah (SWT) has prohibited adultery.
Apostasy is one thing, trial and execution of the apostate is another matter entirely. This can only be done by a legitimate Islamic State, the Caliphate. The defendant has to be brought and tried by an Islamic court. Clearly in the absence of the Islamic state, this is neither possible, nor permissible. For sure if a genuine Islamic state existed, the Afghani apostate would not have returned as an apostate from Germany, as he would know the consequence.
The whole episode is nothing more than a tragicomical theatre piece!
Yamin Zakaria (www.iiop.org)
London, UK
Ansar, i'm a bit confused by your post
You say it's often taken out of context, but then why do soo many scholars have so many disagreements about this, surely Qur'an and Islam is clear, and they should all have come to the same opinion. look at Jamal Badawi's answers here
http://www.islamonline.net/livedialo...GuestID=Gz9HCK
So what is your view on the case in Afghanistan, should he have been tried, is he rebelling and comitting treason?
this is what Sonz posted
now it is quite clear here that it doesn't mention anything about the context, it simply says kill him. It doesn't say if he does it in private, or whether he makes it public. Why is it so unclear? I thought Islam was clear, but yet there are always these different opinions, and these differences too amongst scholars who are supposed to have the most knowledge. why didn't the Prophet PBUH make it clear, and leave it so open“Whoever changes his religion (Islam), kill him” (Bukhari)
“The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas (retribution) for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims." (Bukhari)
Now come on this is such a biased view, what about the other reason that they simply did not think it was the truth, and honestly thought another way of life was better2. Those who have left Islam have historically fallen under three categories: those who left having never properly understood the religion often due to social circumstances, those who faked a conversion into Islam in order to undermine the Islamic community from within, and those who left to support opposing forces in battle against the Muslims.
Number 1, of course it's going to become public. If they are not seen to be praying, fasting or all this other stuff and instead start going to church, just simply following fundamentals of another religion, then it's bound to become public.if their case does become public, however, then they should be reasoned with and educated concerning the religion so that they have the opportunity to learn the concepts they may not have understood properly and they can be encouraged to repent.
Number 2 Now you're saying if it is to become public, which as i've said above is inevitable, then they'll be reasoned with??? What if their arguments stand firm, and they logically answer everything thrown at them. Just as non-muslims who upon given "proofs" of islam and "refutations" of so so so many misconceptions, and still reject islam, why can't the same be done with muslims? Why can't it simply be said to you is your way, to us is ours, or there is no compulsion in religion.
So what will be their fate then if they still decide to leave islam?
Now i don't the answer for sure but i'm pretty certain that if they still decide to leave islam, despite the "refutations" to the hundreds of misconceptions of a clear religion, then they will be executed. Please correct me if I am wrong
Now what does that mean
1) If someone leaves Islam it is bound to become public
2) If he holds strong to his arguments for reverting, just as non-muslims here do for not becomin muslims, then he'll be executed for not repenting?
Where is the freedom of religion?
salamlikum
lets not forget leaving the american military at war time could result in death penalty or life in prison. But the same country is making a big fuss over a person getting executed for leaving Islam.
1. You can leave the US military without dyingformat_quote Originally Posted by Islamicboy
2. We are not at War
3. Can does not mean always does - the whole of WW2 the Americans shot one guy and he not only deserted, he raped a girl too.
4. A religion is not the same as a country
5. Adults join up. Children get born into Islam
But above all 6. If you insist on drawing the analogy with treason, people are going to draw it back. If you do not feel you are a member of a Western community in time that community will decide you are not a member of it. This is the Israeli solution - all the Muslims on one side of a fence, all the rest on the other. Is this what you want?
1 then why do american troops take refuge status in canada after leaving there post?format_quote Originally Posted by HeiGou
2 we are not at war excuse me what is Iraq? i thought this is war on terror is it not?
4 ofcourse a religion is not as same as country yet leaving american military is death or life in prison but people and the human rights dont care about that howcome?
5 We cannot execute someone without teaching them islam and after we show islam to any person its impossible for them to still reject but if they still do then we execute them.
I will not compromise Islam becuase the kuffar cannot except it ok and bro lets not forget even the non muslims knowing this islam is still the fastest growing religion on earth today Alhumdillaah Allaahuakbar.
Last edited by Islamicboy; 03-30-2006 at 05:13 PM.
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