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Muhammad(pbuh) is not the comforter? Help me refute!

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    Muhammad(pbuh) is not the comforter? Help me refute!

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    **These words are of a Christian** Help me out. I know some of these are too easy to refute but I don't have the time to sit and do research coz Exams are round the corner. Any help is greatly appreciated!

    John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
    **Muhammad was not given to the disciples; he came around 600 years later and has been dead for over 1300 years. That's not FOREVER.

    John 14:17 [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
    **They did not know Muhammad, nor would they ever know Muhammad, so the rest cannot be true either. How is Muhammad "in" them? He's not!

    John 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
    **600 years until Muhammad came. That would mean people were "comfortless" for 600 years! Again, not true.

    John 14:26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
    **Did Muhammad EVER say he was sent in Jesus' name? NO!!

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    Re: Muhammad(pbuh) is not the comforter? Help me refute!

    dude, muhammad is not the comforter. is his name "holy spirit?" was he sent in "the name of Jesus?" did he come during the time of the disciples? no.

    for one to honestly think muhammad was the comforter.. well, to be quite honest, i just loose all my trust for them, because they are in complete denial of the truth. it is just simply not muhammad!

    it is the holy spirit (ruh in islam).

    but dude, it does not make islam all of a sudden false. it just means that muhammad was not predicted there.

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    Re: Muhammad(pbuh) is not the comforter? Help me refute!

    Their is one problem. The bible today - if compared to the hebrew context - their is ample mistranslation as we Muslims believe. Ahmed Deedat did a good commentary on the differences.

    Thats why, you do not use, the current translated bible to show that Mohammad :saw: was prophecised in the bible - you will have to understand the ancient hebrew versions - which surprisingly Christians usually ignore... I would like a christian opinion on why modern transcripts could ever be more credible then ancient scripts - especailly since difference in meaning in many many cases are so different - including cases which define the religion itself.

    Hope this stays as a civilised debate
    Muhammad(pbuh) is not the comforter? Help me refute!

    Fight in the way of God, against those who fight against you, drive them out of the places they have drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. Fight them, until persecution is no more, and Religion is for God. But if they stop, let there be no war.


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    Re: Muhammad(pbuh) is not the comforter? Help me refute!


    here are a few pages by Dr. Ahmed Deedat.. and a sample page, quite a long read, but well worth it, also has many manuscripts which you can browse.. in my opinion I don't see why you have to prove to christians something that questions that very crux of their religion, but if you Must, then I hope you'll read the following and that it is beneficial for your debate insha'Allah

    full rebuttal with original manuscripts

    Muhummed
    THE NATURAL SUCCESSOR TO
    Christ

    By Ahmed Deedat





    CHAPTER 1

    The final Messenger








    MULTI-FACETED SUCCESSION

    Successions are of many kinds like the birthright of the "first-born" as in Jewish law. Or the ascending of the eldest son or daughter to the kingly throne. Or by election, to select a candidate by the vote of the majority. Or Theologically, an appointment by Divine Decree of God's chosen Messengers. Like the call of Abraham, Moses, Jesus or Muhummed (May the Peace and Blessings of God be upon them all) who were appointed or "anointed"2 in consecration to their office.

    Muhummed's (pbuh) succession to Jesus Christ (pbuh) is multifaceted.

    1. Chronologically, in history as a sequence of event in time.

    2. By being Chosen3 by God.

    3. In the fulfilment of the prophecies of his predecessors, and but not in the least...

    4. By bringing the Guidance of God to perfection ' "For he will Guide you into all Truth." said. Jesus Christ



    1. In this book as well as in my other publications, I quote extensively from the Arabic Qur’an not only for blessings or adornment. It presents a golden opportunity for my learned brethren to memorize these quotations with its meaning and to share their knowledge with others.

    2 . "ANOINTED:" or appointed; Hebrew word "Messiah." See my book - "Christ in Islam," for fuller explanation.

    3. "CHOSEN:" Arabic – Mustafa. A title of the Prophet of Islam.



    HISTORICALLY

    The Holy Prophet Moses preceded Jesus Christ (pbuh) by some 1300 years and Muhummed (pbuh) succeeded to that high office vacated by Jesus some six centuries later.

    It was the 12 of Rabi I., in the year of the Elephant, or the 29th of August 570 of the Christian Era1 that Muhummed the Praiseworthy, to whom all praise is due, was born in the sacred city of Makkah in pagan Arabia. His people the Quraish remembered the year of his birth as the "Era of the Elephant", because just two months before the birth of the child Abraha al-Ashram, the Abyssinian viceroy of Yemen had attacked the sacred sanctuary at Makkah at the head of his troops riding a huge African elephant. A terrifying sight never to be erased from their memory and a still more shocking end to the invasion — the miraculous destruction of Abraha and his army as recorded in Sura Fil or the Elephant —

    Seest thou not how thy Lord dealt with the Companions of the Elephant?

    Did He not make their treacherous plan go astray?

    And He sent against them flights of Birds,

    Striking them with stones of baked clay.

    Then did He make them like an empty field of stalks and straw,(of which the corn) has been eaten up

    (SURA FIL) Holy Quran 105:1-5

    1. Always use A.C. (After Christ) or C.E. (Christian Era) and not A.D. as Muslims often do unthinkingly.

    GOD'S OWN STANDARDS


    God Almighty chooses His Own Messengers, He uses His Own Standards although we may not always understand the wisdom of it. Paul cries the anomaly -



    For the Jews require a sign (miracles to convince) and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

    (HOLY BIBLE) I Corinthians 1: 22

    But worldly wise as Paul was, he found that his wisdom was "a stumbling-block" to the Jews and "foolishness" to the Greeks.

    God chose Moses (pbuh) a man who was a fugitive from justice and a stutterer. The Holy Bible calls him a man with "uncircumcised lips." (Exodus 6: 12).

    Despite his difficulties when commissioned to confront Pharaoh, the greatest tyrant of the age, Moses (pbuh) cries out to the God of Mercy —

    (Moses) said: "O my Lord! expand for me my breast;" 1

    Make my task easy for me;

    "And remove the impediment from my speech,

    "So that they may understand what I have to say:

    "And give me a Minister from my family,

    "Aaron, my brother; "Add to my strength through him, "And make him share my task:

    "That we may celebrate Thy praise without stint,

    "And remember Thee without stint:

    'For Thou art He that (ever) regardeth us. (God) said: "Granted is thy prayer, 0 Moses!"

    (SURA TA'HA) Holy Qur'an 20:25-56

    1. Meaning – give me courage, make me bold.



    WHY "SUPPOSED"?

    Then comes Jesus (pbuh) who was chosen by God. According to Christian teachings, he was a carpenter and the son of a carpenter, with a dubious genealogy as recorded in the Gospels —

    And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed)1 the son of Joseph...

    (HOLY BIBLE) Luke 3: 25

    Acknowledged today by a thousand million Muslims that Jesus Christ (pbuh) was born miraculously — without any male intervention; the followers of Christ created two separate genealogies for a man who had no genealogy. Between the Gospels of Matthew and Luke they give this mighty Messenger of God sixty-six fathers and grandfathers. And of these two separate lists only one name is common to these two lists and that is of Joseph the Carpenter, who does not Fit in anywhere because, as Luke records above, he was only the "SUPPOSED" father of Jesus. 2

    1. The words you see here in brackets are the exact replica from the King James and the Roman Catholic Versions of the phrase – "(as was supposed)" brackets and all.

    2. Consult – "Is the Bible God’s Word?" for a fuller explanation of these anomalies.



    EVEN BISHOPS DOUBT

    In a "SHOCK SURVEY OF ANGLICAN BISHOPS" in June 1984 it was revealed that 31 of their 39 Bishops thought that "Christ's miracles, the virgin birth and the resurrection might not have happened exactly as described in the Bible."

    In deference to the Bishops of the Church of England (the "Anglicans") the Church of Scotland most respectfully omitted any reference to the "Virgin Birth" from its most recent publication "A STATEMENT OF FAITH." The topic of the miraculous conception of Jesus (pbuh) is getting increasingly hotter for Western Christianity to handle as you see here:



    AND GOD CHOSE JESUS (PBUH)


    Jesus Christ (pbuh) though spiritually rich in wisdom, light and truth; philosophised light-heartedly about the beggars of the world, when he said:

    There came unto him (Jesus) a woman having an albaster box of very precious ointment, and poured it on his head...

    But when his disciples saw it, they had indignation, saying, To what purpose is this waste?

    For this ointment might have been sold For much, and given to the poor.

    ... he (Jesus) said unto them ... For ye have the poor always with you, but (poor) me ye have not always.

    (HOLY BIBLE) Matthew 26: 7-11

    But when destitution stared him in the face. When poverty, penury and need touched his own dear self; he cried pathetically:

    And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the son of man (referring to himself) hath not where to lay his head.

    (HOLY BIBLE) Matthew 8: 20 also repeated in Luke 9: 58

    And yet God chose him (Jesus pbuh): Unique and inscrutable are Thy ways O Lord!



    M-U-S-T-A-F-A THE CHOSEN ONE



    It is He Who sent amongst the unlettered a messenger from among themselves, to rehearse to them His Signs, to sanctify them, and to instruct them in Scripture and Wisdom, — although they had been, before, in manifest error;-

    (SURA JUMUA) Holy Qur'an 62: 2

    Amazing as it may seem, I am not amazed anymore! For this is His way — He chooses an Ummi 1 non-literate Prophet for an Ummi illiterate nation.

    "A POOR SHEPHERD PEOPLE, ROAMING UNNOTICED IN ITS DESERTS SINCE THE CREATION OF THE WORLD: A HERO-PROPHET WAS SENT DOWN TO THEM WITH A WORD THEY COULD BELIEVE: SEE, THE UNNOTICED BECOMES WORLD-NOTABLE, THE SMALL HAS GROWN WORLD-GREAT; WITHIN ONE CENTURY AFTERWARDS, ARABIA IS AT GRENADA (Spain) ON THIS HAND, AT DELHI (India) ON THAT; -GLANCING IN VALOUR AND SPLENDOUR AND THE LIGHT OF GENIUS, ARABIA SHINES THROUGH LONG AGES OVER A GREAT SECTION OF THE WORLD. BELIEF IS GREAT, LIFE-GIVING. THE HISTORY OF A NATION BECOMES FRUITFUL, SOUL ELEVATING, GREAT, SO SOON AS IT BELIEVES. THESE ARABS, THE MAN MAHOMET, AND THAT ONE CENTURY, -IS IT NOT AS IF A SPARK HAD FALLEN, ONE SPARK, ON A WORLD OF WHAT SEEMED BLACK UNNOTICEABLE SAND; BUT LO, THE SAND PROVES EXPLOSIVE POWDER, BLAZES HEAVEN HIGH FROM DELHI TO GRENADA! I SAID, THE GREAT MAN WAS ALWAYS AS LIGHTNING OUT OF HEAVEN; THE REST OF MEN WAITED FOR HIM LIKE FUEL, AND THEN THEY TOO WOULD FLAME."

    Thus concluded the speech of Thomas Carlyle, one of the greatest thinkers of the past century. It was Friday, the 8th of May 1840. His theme — "The Hero as Prophet" His audience: were Anglicans — English Christians.

    1. UMMI: "Unlettered." "One other circumstance we must not forget: that he had no school-learning; of the thing we call school-learning; none at all." Thomas Carlyle in his "HEROES AND HERO-WORSHIP"

    THE CHOSEN PEOPLE

    God chooses His Messengers and God chooses His People, In the realm of the Spirit no nation was as favoured as the Jews and yet Moses (pbuh) is made to bewail against his own people —

    Ye have been rebellious against the Lord from the day I knew you.

    (HOLY BIBLE) Deutronomy 9: 24

    In this last will and testament of Moses (pbuh) the Israelites frustrate their "meek and gentle" Messenger who is forced to rail against their continual stubborn resistance and arrogant attitudes to God's guidance —

    For I knew thy rebellion, and thy stiff neck: behold, while I am yet alive with you this day, ye have been rebellious against the lord; and how much more after my death?

    (HOLY BIBLE) Deutronomy 51:27

    Alas how true! I am not going to philosophise on God's choice. But in the very next chapter the fire of God's anger is kindled to a blaze and He decries the Jews -

    They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they (the Jews) have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are Not A People; I will provoke them to anger with a Foolish Nation.

    (HOLY BIBLE) Deutronomy 32:211

    1. Emphasis are mine.


    JEWS SUBSTITUTED

    Anyone with a modicum of Scriptural knowledge will be able i guess who in the eyes of these arrogant, racist Jews is "not-a people" — a non-entity and "a foolish nation" if not the Ishmaelite cousins — the Arabs who in the words of Thomas Carlyle have been "ROAMING UNNOTICED IN ITS DESERT SINCE THE CREATION OF THE WORLD."!?

    THE ARABS. Alexander the Great passed them by: the Persian. passed them by; the Egyptians passed them by; and the Roman; passed them by. It would have been an absolute liability for any nation to conquer and colonise them. But the Creator did not pass them by. He picked them up from the depths of darkness and transformed them into torch-bearers of light and learning to the world. "I will move them "I will move them (the Jews) to Jealousy"1 This jealousy is a cultivated sickness. Remember, Sarah and Hagar the two wives of Abraham (pbuh) — the Friend of God. The jealousy of Sarah was bequeathed to her children and on to nations and tribes yet unborn.


    1. If the Romans or the Greeks had displaced the Jews as the "Chosen of God" then the envy would not have been as acute or as intolerable to the Jews.

    Not so long ago I read a book on the discovery of medicine written by a Jewish medical man. I can unfortunately not remember the name of the author and failed to retrace the book. However, the wordings of the tribute paid by this Jewish author to his Semetic (Arab) cousins have made an indelible impression on my mind. And I quote from memory:


    "GOATHERDS AND CAMEL DRIVERS SITTING ON THE THRONE OF THE CAESARS"


    Full of spite, venom and sarcasm, but how true! This is what God did and always does. He honours whom He wills. This is what He does to show His Mighty Hand (Power)?



    IT IS SURELY ONE OF THE GREATEST MIRACLES OF HISTORY THAT FROM THE BACKWATER OF ARABIA THERE SHOULD HAVE EXPLODED A GROUP OF MEN, COMPANIONS OF A PROPHET, WHO WITHIN THE SPACE OF A FEW BRIEF DECADES WERE ABLE TO CREATE A MAGNIFICENT CIVILISATION EXTENDING FROM THE PYRENEES TO THE GATES OF CHINA

    Abdul Wadod Shalabi in "Islam Religion of Life:"

    THE LAST WARNING

    The foregoing is the exact fulfilment of Jesus Christ's (pbuh), (the last of the great Jewish prophets) own prediction of the displacement of the Jewish race in the spiritual guidance of man. In the words of the Master himself —

    Therefore I say unto you (Jews), The Kingdom of God shall be taken away from you (Jews), and shall be given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

    (HOLY BIBLE) Matthew 21: 45 1

    1. "Kingdom of God:" The honour, the privilege of being God’s chosen people to guide mankind – "Ye (Jews) shall be unto me (God Almighty) a kingdom of priests, and a holy nation." (Exodus 19:6) This grand commission ended with Jesus (pbuh).



    CHAPTER TWO

    IN THE WORDS OF THE MASTER



    JUST ONE FULL PROPHECY1



    1 This site only expounds a single prophecy from the New Testament. See "What the Bible says about Muhammmed (pbuh)" for prophecies from the Old Testemant.

    A COMMON TRAIT

    Just a cursory glance, a rapid reading, a hurried look at the previous verse will satisfy the Muslim that Jesus Christ (pbuh) did indeed prophesy the advent of Muhummed (pbuh), the Messenger of God. The Muslim is puzzled at the stubbornness, vanity and tunnel vision of the Christian which prevents him from seeing his own inner light and listening to his conscience so as not to recognise the obvious.

    The Christian in turn is puzzled at the hard-hearted obstinacy of the Jews, a nation endowed with such creative genius, which, despite a thousand and one prophecies in their own Bible (the Old Testament) regarding the coming of the "Messiah," are totally incapable of recognising their lord and "saviour." Are they both somewhat blind?

    No! Neither the Jews nor the Christians are necessarily impervious to truth. The trouble is that we all pick up our prejudices from childhood. The American call it being "programmed"

    Simply reading the verses or listening to lectures and getting that smug satisfaction of being in the know will not help spreading the truth. This is the age of the "EVERYMAN." 1 The age of the professionals is over. It is the duty of every Muslim — man, woman or child to get involved. Each according to his or her capacity. Memorize the above verse with its meaning as well as the quotations preceding and those that follow so that you may feel equipped to share our Deen with non-Muslims. There are no short-cuts to Da'wah (propagation)!

    1. "EVERYMAN:" is a new series of books to equip everyman or woman to learn an art or trade such as – plumbing, pottery, woodwork, etc by studying at home.

    PRODUCE YOUR PROOF!

    Perhaps this is not the first time you are reading or might have heard about the prophecies in the Jewish and Christian Scriptures regarding the advent of the last and final Messenger of God — Muhummed (pbuh) the Mercy unto all mankind. And perhaps you have at times made some half-hearted and skimpy efforts at suggesting that our Nabi-e-Kareem was prophesised in the Holy Bible. But when proof was demanded, you simply not able to, because you had not done any home work Remember, there is no substitute for hard work. I believe what I say and I practise what I preach. Insha-Allah!

    I have personally memorized various selections from the Bible in a dozen different languages, including Arabic and Hebrew. Not for show but because of the openings these snippets of religion create for me in propagating our faith to various language groups. Languages are the keys to people's hearts.



    IN THE LAND OF THE PHARAOHS

    Notwithstanding many assurances, I got stranded in Cairo for lack of an entry visa. A kind gentleman from the AI-Azhar, who was trying to help us obtain the relevant documents, got frustrated with the delay and in order to attend to his Friday prayers, handed me and my son Yousuf to a young Egyptian lady, well-groomed in Western attire.

    After much effort and time she returned to us with the good news. "Forty dollars," she said. I asked, "For what?" "The visas," she answered. Twenty dollars for me and twenty for my son. "But I am a guest of the Government," I insisted. She said that she knew nothing about it, so I smiled and paid.

    From the lady's speech and deportment, I had sensed that she was well-educated and a lady of culture, so undauntedly I asked her again what her name was in my broken Arabic. However, her name was too novel for me to remember. I asked her further: "Are you a Muslim?" She said, "No, I am an Egyptian Christian." This was the opening I was waiting for. I began, "Do you know that before Jesus Christ departed from this world, he told his disciples," and I started to quote, now in meticulous Arabic, a verse from the Arabic Bible, (see next page), which I had memorized for opportunities just like this particular one.



    THE TRANSLATION


    I had no need to translate the above Arabic to her, because as an Arab she understood the verse perfectly. But for the benefit of those who do not know Arabic I give you its exact equivalent from the English Bible, which I had also taken the trouble to memorize in my spare time. You can create that spare time also if you have true love for Allah's Deen and wish to share it with others.

    Nevertheless, I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

    (HOLY BIBLE) John 16:7



    "AL-MOOUZZI" THE COMFORTER

    I implore my brethren who can read the Arabic quotation to memorize it together with the English translation above and create opportunities for using it. Learn the verses in conjunction

    with other languages that you know. There will be a definite all-round improvement in your fluency, and proficiency in preaching Islam to other people.

    The word "Comforter" above is "al-Moouzzi" in Arabic. I asked the lady, "Who is the "al-Moouzzi" of this prophecy?" She said, " do not know," She was honest She did not beat around the bush. So I said that we are told in the Holy Qur'an that Jesus Christ (pbuh) had told his disciples —



    I continued that, *This Ahmed is another name for Muhummed, and Muhummed is Moouzzi!" "Very funny," she exclaimed, "these Egyptians" (meaning the Muslim Egyptians) "take us to the cinema, they take us" (meaning Christian women) "to the dance, but no one ever tells us anything about this Moouzzi!" Through her Allah soobha'nahoo-wa-ta'aalaa, armed me with a fourteen-pound SledgeHammer before leaving Cairo Airport. Alhumdo'lillah! And, did I use that SledgeHammer!!

    An integrated explanation of Comforter/Moouzzi of John 16: 7 and Ahmed/Muhummed of The Holy Qur’an 61: 6 will be slotted in place when explaining the Ayat (the verse) heading this chapter.

    BIBLICAL CONFIRMATION

    Remember, that in the sixth century of the Christian Era, when Muhummed (pbuh) was chanting God's words which was systematically "put into his mouth," ' the Arabic Bible had not yet been translated. He could never have known that he was fulfilling and confirming the utterances of his predecessor Jesus (pbuh) to the letter.



    ONLY FOR THE ISRAELITES

    1.









    JESUS FOR JEWS ONLY

    These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them saying,
    Go ye not into the way of the Gentiles, 1 and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go ye rather unto The Lost Sheep Of The House Of Israel.

    (HOLY BIBLE) Matthew 10:5-6

    1 Gentiles: non-Jews

    NOT FOR DOGS

    And behold a woman of Canaan 1 came ... and cried unto him saying, have mercy on me ... my daughter is seriously possessed with a devil.

    But he answered her not a word.

    And his disciples came and begged him, saying. Send her away: for she crieth after us.

    But he answered and said, I am Not Sent But Unto The Lost Sheep Of The House Of Israel.

    But she came and knelt before him, saying. Lord, help me.

    But he answered her and said, It is Not Fair To Take The Children's Bread And Cast It To The Dogs. 2

    (HOLY BIBLE) Matthew 15:22-26

    1. Mark 7.26 says that the woman was a Greek.

    2. Meaning non-Jews.

    It goes to the credit of this Jewish prophet, that he practised what he preached. In his lifetime he never converted a single Gentile (non-Jew). And of his hand-picked elect (his twelve disciples), he made sure that they belonged to his tribe so that his other prophecy might Find fulfilment: "when the son of man (Jesus pbuh referring to himself) shall sit on the throne of his glory, ye (the disciples) also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel" (Matthew 19: 28).

    NO NEW RELIGION



    2 "LAW": The word in the Arabic text here is "Taurat." (Heb. "Torah.")

    The Messiah was no mealy-mouthed Messenger among the Jews. Like his predecessors Amos and Ezekiel or Isaiah and Jeremiah, he was trenchant in his condemnation of Jewish formalism and hypocrisies. His novel approach and militant preaching had created certain misgivings amongst the religious hierarchy. The Scribes and the Pharisees came to him again and again to test him as to his bona fides (His Genuineness).

    To allay their suspicions that he had brought no new fangled religion, and that his was the confirmation of all the teachings that had gone before him. He says —

    Think not that I am come to destroy the law (Hebrew - Torah), or the prophets: I am come not to destroy, but to fulfil.

    For verily I say unto you. Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law (Torah), till all be fulfilled.

    Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

    HOLY BIBLE Matthew 5: 17-19

    Compare this phrase "CONFIRMING THE LAW (WHICH CAME) BEFORE ME" - these seven words at the beginning of this section with the three verses of Matthew above, and you will not fail to note that there is no wordiness in the Qur'anic diction. It conveys God's Message concisely, with clarity and precision.

    "THE FATHER1 OF TRUTH CHOOSES HIS OWN PROPHETS, AND HE SPEAKS TO THEM IN A VOICE STRONGER THAN THE VOICE OF THUNDERY

    Sayed Amir Ali in "The Spirit of Islam. "

    1. FATHER: The use of the word "Father" in relation to God was cut out from Islam owing to the perversion of the idea among Christians.

    The Qur'an had come to Confirm, Correct and Complete Divine Revelation, or whatever was left of it in unworthy hands.





    THE GOOD NEWS

    3.




    I will not apologise, nor am I called upon to apologise for reproducing here verbatim (a word for word) commentary on the word "AHMED," from ABDULLAH YUSUF ALI'S English translation. But before I do that permit me to pay a fitting tribute to the KING FAHD HOLY QUR'AN PRINTING COMPLEX in Al-Madinah AI-Munawarah which is turning out millions of Holy Qur'ans in many different languages.

    Their reason for using YUSUF ALI as a base for their reproduction is summed up in these words:

    "A NUMBER OF INDIVIDUALS HAVE IN THE PAST VENTURED TO TRANSLATE THE QUR'AN, BUT THEIR WORKS HAVE GENERALLY BEEN PRIVATE ATTEMPTS, GREATLY INFLUENCED BY THEIR OWN PREJUDICES. IN ORDER TO PRODUCE A RELIABLE TRANSLATION FREE FROM PERSONAL BIAS, A ROYAL DECREE (No, 19888, DATED 16/8/1400 AH) WAS ISSUED BY THE CUSTODIAN OF THE TWO HOLY MOSQUES, KING FAHD IBN ABDUL AZIZ, AT THAT TIME THE DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER - THE TRANSLATION OF THE LATE USTADH ABDULLAH YUSUF ALI WAS CONSEQUENTLY CHOSEN FOR ITS DISTINGUISHING CHARACTERISTICS, SUCH AS A HIGHLY ELEGANT STYLE, A CHOICE OF WORDS CLOSE TO THE MEANING OF THE ORIGINAL TEXT, ACCOMPANIED BY SCHOLARLY NOTES AND COMMENTARIES."

    The Presidency of Islamic Researches, lfta, Call and Guidance

    Out of over six thousand profound explanatory notes in Yusuf Ali's translation, the following is just one of three explaining the prophecy in the words of Jesus (pbuh) regarding the advent of Muhummed (pbuh) the Messenger of God.
    Note No: 5438:



    "Ahmed", or "Muhummed", the Praised one, is almost a translation of the Greek word Periclytos. In the present Gospel of John 14:16, 15:26, and 16:7, the word "Comforter" in the English version for the Greek word "Paracletos", which means "Advocate", "one called to the help of another, a kind friend", rather than "Comforter". Our doctors contend that Paracletos is a corrupt reading for Periclytos and that in the original saying of Jesus there was a prophecy of our holy Prophet Ahmed by name. Even if we read Paraclete, it would imply to the Holy Prophet, who is "a Mercy for all creatures" (H.Q. 21:107) and "most kind and merciful to the Believers" (H.Q. 9:128) See also note 416 to H.Q. 3:81.



    4.





    Thus concludes (Ayat) verse 6 of (Sura) chapter 61 under discussion. "The Prophet of Islam was foretold in many ways; and when he came he showed forth many Clear Signs, for his whole life from beginning to end was one vast miracle. He fought and won against odds. Without learning from men he taught the highest wisdom. He melted hearts that were hard, and he strengthened hearts that were tender and required support. In all his sayings and doings men of discernment could see the working of God's hand;" yet the sceptics called it SORCERY — jugglery — magic!

    FORGER AND JUGGLER! NO, NO! THIS GREAT FIERY HEART, SEETHING, SIMMERING LIKE A GREAT FURNACE OF THOUGHTS, WAS NOT A JUGGLER'S.
    Thomas Carlyle, page 88 in his book -"Heroes and Hero-worship"


    And they called his miraculous fulfilment of prophecy magic, Jugglery, enchantment — that which became the most solid fact of human history — Islam!

    Muhammad(pbuh) is not the comforter? Help me refute!

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    Re: Muhammad(pbuh) is not the comforter? Help me refute!

    format_quote Originally Posted by hmmm5 View Post
    **These words are of a Christian** Help me out. I know some of these are too easy to refute but I don't have the time to sit and do research coz Exams are round the corner. Any help is greatly appreciated!

    John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
    **Muhammad was not given to the disciples; he came around 600 years later and has been dead for over 1300 years. That's not FOREVER.

    if u wana play it literally then here are the refutations...

    which disciples we are speaking of is not verified in this context...disciples of which age???


    John 14:17 [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
    **They did not know Muhammad, nor would they ever know Muhammad, so the rest cannot be true either. How is Muhammad "in" them? He's not!

    'they', again, are not termed. 'in' can be symoblic...there is technically nothing 'in' us besides flesh and blood...no man...
    John 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
    **600 years until Muhammad came. That would mean people were "comfortless" for 600 years! Again, not true.
    umm...duuuhhh...before muahmmed came they had the original bible to comfort them...ie, christ and his message...Allah wudnt bother sending a new prophet until the religion was corrupted enuf...

    John 14:26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
    **Did Muhammad EVER say he was sent in Jesus' name? NO!!

    why shud he...?every man for themselves....phrophet muhammed does not discriminate either prophet from the other, unlike ur version of 'jesus'.prophet muahmmed came in the name of Allah and all his prophets, including jesus and he bid witness to their sacridity...dnt u think that is the way a prophet shud be. he didnt come to eradicate all other religions. he came to add on to them and fix up what the people screwed up. ur version of jesus came and fix the beliefs of judaism coz it also stuffed up...did he come in the name of moses???
    ...
    Muhammad(pbuh) is not the comforter? Help me refute!

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    In your masterpiece beautiful
    You speak the unspeakable through
    I love you too"

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    Re: Muhammad(pbuh) is not the comforter? Help me refute!

    format_quote Originally Posted by Md Mashud View Post
    Their is one problem. The bible today - if compared to the hebrew context - their is ample mistranslation as we Muslims believe. Ahmed Deedat did a good commentary on the differences.

    Thats why, you do not use, the current translated bible to show that Mohammad :saw: was prophecised in the bible - you will have to understand the ancient hebrew versions - which surprisingly Christians usually ignore... I would like a christian opinion on why modern transcripts could ever be more credible then ancient scripts - especailly since difference in meaning in many many cases are so different - including cases which define the religion itself.

    Hope this stays as a civilised debate
    Well, there are many problems with your post.

    1. The Gospels(Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John) were NOT written in Hebrew. They were written in GREEK. There are over 24,000 manuscripts found of the Greek NT, more then ANY other ancient manuscripts in the world.. the closest comes at 1100.. so yeah.. there are a TON of Biblical manuscripts.

    Almost all the Greek manuscripts agree with each other. The only minor errors are spelling errors, which is not to be unexpected.

    And, we can look at ancients Coptic and Aramaic manuscripts of the Bible too, and they all confirm each other.

    Ok, so that is one thing.

    2. As for the Old Testament.. Yes, the Old Testament is written in Hebrew.

    There are 3 clasified OT manuscripts..

    -Masoric
    - DSS(Dead Sea Scrolls)
    - Septuigent(Greek translation of the Torah that took place in around 200 - 300 BC.)

    The Dead Sea Scrolls were manuscripts from the Bible found that date as far back as 200 BC.

    The Septuigent is the Torah translated in Greek. They basically translated it, and it has been in tact ever sense.

    The Masaoric Text is the text that Jews have always used.

    All three of these texts go hand in hand with each other, with very few differences. With the DSS, they only found 7 differences then with the Masaoric! These were spelling too! The Septuigant is just like the Masaoric, only it is translated into greek.

    so mr. deedat has no clue what he is talking about. Christians use the oldest manuscripts.

    the oldest manuscripts of the New Testament are from about 67 AD(about 35 years after Jesus.) They go hand in hand with those of today.

    EVEN IF we lost the Bible for some reason.. If we jsust read all the early Christian Church Father writings, we would find EVERY VERSE OF THE BIBLE quoted except for 11! Literally! So if we ever loose the Bible, we can just read sme early Church writings, and we will finde very verse!!

    So please, don't even try and say "oh, they don't use the oldest." Because Christians do, trust me. unless you have taken a university level class on this(which it iss obvious you have not) the do not speak.

    Thinking that the NT (New Testament) was written in Hebrew is enough for me to know that you just believe what people are feeding you, without looking up info for yourself.

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    Re: Muhammad(pbuh) is not the comforter? Help me refute!

    "Ahmed", or "Muhummed", the Praised one, is almost a translation of the Greek word Periclytos. In the present Gospel of John 14:16, 15:26, and 16:7, the word "Comforter" in the English version for the Greek word "Paracletos", which means "Advocate", "one called to the help of another, a kind friend", rather than "Comforter". Our doctors contend that Paracletos is a corrupt reading for Periclytos and that in the original saying of Jesus there was a prophecy of our holy Prophet Ahmed by name. Even if we read Paraclete, it would imply to the Holy Prophet, who is "a Mercy for all creatures" (H.Q. 21:107) and "most kind and merciful to the Believers" (H.Q. 9:128) See also note 416 to H.Q. 3:81.
    oh really? find me ONE, jsut ONE Biblical scholar that agrees with that. and find me just ONE of the 24,000 Biblical manuscripts that agree with that.

    that is the most ridiculous thing I have heard. "Our Doctors." HAH! I bet you can not find even ONE!! And he has NO PROOF from Biblical manuscripts.. because it is just not there.

    and notice that he never even bothered to address some of the key points..
    The Bible says the Comforter will come during the time of the Disciples

    The Bible says that the Comforter is the HOLY SPIRIT

    The Bible says that the Comforter will be sent by Jesus

    Notice he does not even bother to address such.
    Last edited by thirdwatch512; 09-23-2007 at 05:32 AM.

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    Re: Muhammad(pbuh) is not the comforter? Help me refute!

    That is Dr. deedat to you!..It is Ramadan and I don't want to be provoked into a long winded rebuttal with you; considering I genuinely believe you don't understand the basics of your own religion...

    If the BR.. of this thread wanted a Christian perspective-- I am sure he'll have gone on a catholic/or protestant forum and asked for it... this is beyond your sphere of expertise and the 'subtle' insinuation of your person on a thread where your input isn't needed or even warranted!
    Muhammad(pbuh) is not the comforter? Help me refute!

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    Re: Muhammad(pbuh) is not the comforter? Help me refute!

    format_quote Originally Posted by thirdwatch512 View Post
    Well, there are many problems with your post.

    1. The Gospels(Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John) were NOT written in Hebrew. They were written in GREEK. There are over 24,000 manuscripts found of the Greek NT, more then ANY other ancient manuscripts in the world.. the closest comes at 1100.. so yeah.. there are a TON of Biblical manuscripts.

    Almost all the Greek manuscripts agree with each other. The only minor errors are spelling errors, which is not to be unexpected.

    And, we can look at ancients Coptic and Aramaic manuscripts of the Bible too, and they all confirm each other.

    Ok, so that is one thing.

    2. As for the Old Testament.. Yes, the Old Testament is written in Hebrew.

    There are 3 clasified OT manuscripts..

    -Masoric
    - DSS(Dead Sea Scrolls)
    - Septuigent(Greek translation of the Torah that took place in around 200 - 300 BC.)

    The Dead Sea Scrolls were manuscripts from the Bible found that date as far back as 200 BC.

    The Septuigent is the Torah translated in Greek. They basically translated it, and it has been in tact ever sense.

    The Masaoric Text is the text that Jews have always used.

    All three of these texts go hand in hand with each other, with very few differences. With the DSS, they only found 7 differences then with the Masaoric! These were spelling too! The Septuigant is just like the Masaoric, only it is translated into greek.

    so mr. deedat has no clue what he is talking about. Christians use the oldest manuscripts.

    the oldest manuscripts of the New Testament are from about 67 AD(about 35 years after Jesus.) They go hand in hand with those of today.

    EVEN IF we lost the Bible for some reason.. If we jsust read all the early Christian Church Father writings, we would find EVERY VERSE OF THE BIBLE quoted except for 11! Literally! So if we ever loose the Bible, we can just read sme early Church writings, and we will finde very verse!!

    So please, don't even try and say "oh, they don't use the oldest." Because Christians do, trust me. unless you have taken a university level class on this(which it iss obvious you have not) the do not speak.

    Thinking that the NT (New Testament) was written in Hebrew is enough for me to know that you just believe what people are feeding you, without looking up info for yourself.
    There is a flaw in your post - You claim all these old stuff to exist - do the meanings, the laws, the understanding behind them get transferred to the new translated book? You see, through history of Christianity, it never seem they are following the same book. In Quran, we have somthing called tafsir, this is, the authentic meaning behind every verse - which is carried over from 1400 years ago to this date. You can actually, on the ancient Quran texts - see on the margins, top bottom left right, narrations - to explain what the texts mean. Muslims believe only those qualified to do so should make derivations of the Quran - to avoid making mistakes.

    I definatly, cant see this happening for bible - how do I make such a statement? By looking at christianity today... Also, is bible god's words or of the witnesses?
    Muhammad(pbuh) is not the comforter? Help me refute!

    Fight in the way of God, against those who fight against you, drive them out of the places they have drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. Fight them, until persecution is no more, and Religion is for God. But if they stop, let there be no war.


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    Re: Muhammad(pbuh) is not the comforter? Help me refute!

    Lol good ol' Deedat. He tried to hard to twist meanings and biblical literature. I guess if you squint hard it sorta maybe looks like Muhammed is in the bible. Now weather Muhammed is the "comforter" or the "beast" mentioned in Revalations is entriely dependant on which way you decide to twist scripture and ignore all the other evidence agaisnt it

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    Re: Muhammad(pbuh) is not the comforter? Help me refute!

    format_quote Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia View Post
    That is Dr. deedat to you!..It is Ramadan and I don't want to be provoked into a long winded rebuttal with you; considering I genuinely believe you don't understand the basics of your own religion...

    If the BR.. of this thread wanted a Christian perspective-- I am sure he'll have gone on a catholic/or protestant forum and asked for it... this is beyond your sphere of expertise and the 'subtle' insinuation of your person on a thread where your input isn't needed or even warranted!
    PurestAmbrosia - Thanks alot for that article by the late Ahmed Deedat. It was a joy to read it and very informative. Thank you very much. And yes, I'm looking for refutations from the Muslims.

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    Re: Muhammad(pbuh) is not the comforter? Help me refute!

    format_quote Originally Posted by thirdwatch512 View Post
    dude, muhammad is not the comforter. did he come during the time of the disciples? no..
    Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 7:
    "Nevertheless I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not
    come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you".

    Some Christians say that the Comforter mentioned in these prophecies refers to the Holy Sprit. They fail to realise that the prophecy clearly says that only if Jesus (pbuh) departs will the Comforter come. The Bible states that the
    Holy Spirit was already present on earth before and during the time of Jesus (pbuh), in the womb of Elizabeth, and again when Jesus (pbuh) was being baptised, etc. Hence this prophecy refers to none other than Prophet
    Muhammad (pbuh).

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    Re: Muhammad(pbuh) is not the comforter? Help me refute!

    format_quote Originally Posted by hmmm5 View Post
    Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 7:
    "Nevertheless I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not
    come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you".

    Some Christians say that the Comforter mentioned in these prophecies refers to the Holy Sprit. They fail to realise that the prophecy clearly says that only if Jesus (pbuh) departs will the Comforter come. The Bible states that the
    Holy Spirit was already present on earth before and during the time of Jesus (pbuh), in the womb of Elizabeth, and again when Jesus (pbuh) was being baptised, etc. Hence this prophecy refers to none other than Prophet
    Muhammad (pbuh).
    Except if you read in the context of the whole book, it refers to a spiritual being (Holy spirit).

    Are you saying Muhammed wasnt a man?

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    Re: Muhammad(pbuh) is not the comforter? Help me refute!

    format_quote Originally Posted by hmmm5 View Post
    PurestAmbrosia - Thanks alot for that article by the late Ahmed Deedat. It was a joy to read it and very informative. Thank you very much. And yes, I'm looking for refutations from the Muslims.
    Dr. deedat has indeed consecrated his life to theology and comparative religion, and he was bestowed with the gift of great manners, his delivery was infallible that many ministers and priests simply reverted at his hands... sob7an Allah.. indeed it is a loss that he is no longer with us.. I'd advise that you watch some of his lectures,
    http://cgi.ebay.com/GREAT-COLLECTION...QQcmdZViewItem
    I found this to be the most complete series by him 114 lectures.. they are arduous to get through but well worth it.. Some of them are found on youtube but they are not complete.
    if this rebuttal you are working on is important, then it might be worth your while to go through them.. if it is a mere squabble with net trolls, then I'd not waste my time, since from experience I believeto be futile. People who are inquisitive and want to learn don't usually learn through a net correspondence, they purchase lectures and attend seminars.
    if all else fails, I'd recommend you contact Br. Ansar Al 'Adl on this forum by PM, or look through some of his old threads I believe he has most all topics covered.. he is very scholarly Masha'Allah.
    May Allah yizeedoh and yezedena 3ilman Ameen
    wr wb
    Last edited by جوري; 09-23-2007 at 10:03 PM. Reason: typos
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    Re: Muhammad(pbuh) is not the comforter? Help me refute!

    This boils down to what one wishes to believe I suppose. To Christians it is quite obvious that the Comforter referred to is indeed the Holy Spirit. It doesn't even take a Biblical scholar to figure that one out, but I suppose people see what they wish to see.
    Muhammad(pbuh) is not the comforter? Help me refute!

    "Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."

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    Re: Muhammad(pbuh) is not the comforter? Help me refute!

    The comforter was to bring solutions to the hereafter of him - according to Isa :RA: . What did the holy spirit bring in terms of solutions to the problems to the Earth, as prophet Mohammed :saw: has, in every way?
    Muhammad(pbuh) is not the comforter? Help me refute!

    Fight in the way of God, against those who fight against you, drive them out of the places they have drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. Fight them, until persecution is no more, and Religion is for God. But if they stop, let there be no war.


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    Re: Muhammad(pbuh) is not the comforter? Help me refute!

    format_quote Originally Posted by Md Mashud View Post
    The comforter was to bring solutions to the hereafter of him - according to Isa :RA: . What did the holy spirit bring in terms of solutions to the problems to the Earth, as prophet Mohammed :saw: has, in every way?
    the holy spirit is supposide to bring about a Jesus-like attitude, nothing physical.

    How has Muhammed solved the problems of the Earth? Strange comment as there were/are a number or wars being fought in his name.

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    Re: Muhammad(pbuh) is not the comforter? Help me refute!

    I should give Deedat some respect. He twists scriptures, but at least he works with what there leading me to believe its a misunderstanding and wishful thinking on his part...unlike some other so-called scholar who has a nasty habit of making stuff up making it intentional and malicious. *cough* Mr. Zakir* cough*
    Last edited by Isambard; 09-24-2007 at 05:26 AM.

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    Re: Muhammad(pbuh) is not the comforter? Help me refute!

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