I got the idea for this thread out of another one I read where the OP asks about girlfriends and Islam.
This is really a two-part question taking two ideas Ive noticed to be prevelant among Muslims.
The first one is this, if homosexuality is a learned trait, what exactly keeps two men/women from finding others of the same gender attractive given that when a man and a woman are along, Shaytaan is present. That is if the potential is there to find anyone attractive, are folks of the same gender at the same risk?
If not, why not? If theres something that is done to prevent this, why isnt it extending into male/female relationships to make them platonic?
Re: What prevents two muslim men (or women) from falling in love?
That is an unusual Q..however here is my response--
You could potentially fall in love with anyone, or love anyone...there are different kinds of love-- what keeps one from loving their uncles, newphews and niece's without having an incestuous relationship? for instance like the one Salome had with her uncle? Some people might argue that you can't help whom you fall in love with, whether you are a necromaniac, a zoophile or a pederast, be that as it may... Not everyone acts on their feelings simply because they cannot help their attraction.. at least I hope... certainly you don't go cave man style and grab every woman that is attractive to you by her hair into some dark alleyway where you can relieve your urges?...
Sexual relations is a way to express love but in and of itself is a very primitive inherent aptitude and we are all capable of.. love in and of itself is a noble emotion, what you choose to do with the feeling might be right or wrong.. you may make it lawful and that is great, or you can go against the guidelines and just sleep with someone every so often until you find the one that rocks your boat---
Religion's role is to define for you that which is acceptable and that which isn't...
30 years ago homosexuality was an act of sexual deviance, not unlike the afore mentioned ones, but society now deems it acceptable. secularism will not define for theists that it is now ok to be a zoophile because you can't help but be attracted to your goat and who is to define the 'norm'for us? a certain number of the population will indeed be attracted to animals.. some men will always be attracted to young boys, and some will be attracted to the dead.. In such cases some people might get counseling and some actualy serve time for acting on their lust is a crim!. It doesn't mean that theists are backwards and unable to acquiesce to new research... it is what it is and what has always been..
So yes you can potentially find anyone or anything attractive, how you choose to act on it, is a different tale all together..
cheers
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Re: What prevents two muslim men (or women) from falling in love?
format_quote Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
That is an unusual Q..however here is my response--
You could potentially fall in love with anyone, or love anyone...there are different kinds of love-- what keeps one from loving their uncles, newphews and niece's without having an incestuous relationship? for instance like the one Salome had with her uncle? Some people might argue that you can't help whom you fall in love with, whether you are a necromaniac, a zoophile or a pederast, be that as it may... Not everyone acts on their feelings simply because they cannot help their attraction.. at least I hope... certainly you don't go cave man style and grab every woman that is attractive to you by her hair into some dark alleyway where you can relieve your urges?...
If thats true, why does the Qur'an/hadiths only warn agaisnt lust between a man and a woman?
If it is controllable, why then can't men/women be friends?
Re: What prevents two muslim men (or women) from falling in love?
format_quote Originally Posted by Isambard
If thats true, why does the Qur'an/hadiths only warn agaisnt lust between a man and a woman?
If it is controllable, why then can't men/women be friends?
The warnings are more noticeable for conduct between Male and Females, because that is the situation most probable. The stated punishments for same sex physical relationships should be sufficient warning for a sane person.
The friendship and love is not what is being controlled what is controlled is lust. Muslim's do love each other and part of this love is to avoid any situations that would turn this love into meaningless lust or lead either into sin.
Re: What prevents two muslim men (or women) from falling in love?
format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
The warnings are more noticeable for conduct between Male and Females, because that is the situation most probable. The stated punishments for same sex physical relationships should be sufficient warning for a sane person.
The friendship and love is not what is being controlled what is controlled is lust. Muslim's do love each other and part of this love is to avoid any situations that would turn this love into meaningless lust or lead either into sin.
Then why can two men hang out alone, yet a man and a woman cant do the same?
In either case, there is punishment for lust and there is the potential in both cases for something 'bad' happening.
Re: What prevents two muslim men (or women) from falling in love?
format_quote Originally Posted by Isambard
Then why can two men hang out alone, yet a man and a woman cant do the same?
In either case, there is punishment for lust and there is the potential in both cases for something 'bad' happening.
if 'alone' means sex and or fondling from base one to four, then there is bigger ****ation for them than just man and woman... surely you have heard of the people of 'lut'?
cheers!
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Re: What prevents two muslim men (or women) from falling in love?
format_quote Originally Posted by Isambard
If thats true, why does the Qur'an/hadiths only warn agaisnt lust between a man and a woman?
If it is controllable, why then can't men/women be friends?
a man and woman in Islam are better than friends.. they are considered kin.. every male Muslim here is my brother and ever female my sister.. I think that goes deeper than 'friendship' without crossing the lines?
cheers
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Re: What prevents two muslim men (or women) from falling in love?
format_quote Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
a man and woman in Islam are better than friends.. they are considered kin.. every male Muslim here is my brother and ever female my sister.. I think that goes deeper than 'friendship' without crossing the lines?
if 'alone' means sex and or fondling from base one to four, then there is bigger ****ation for them than just man and woman... surely you have heard of the people of 'lut'?
cheers!
cheers
Ive combined your replies to save space. Hope you dont mind.
Alone means I go to the theatre, or to a movie, or just go for lunch. There is nothing inherently sexual, or even any sexual intention behind these acts. Just enjoyment of company.
As I understand it, Satan hangs around when a man and a woman are alone together. This is why if I were a muslim, I should avoid the above with any of my female friends.
If homsexuality is learned, then why shouldnt I avoid doing the above with my male friends?
If its about control, why cant I control myself around women?
Re: What prevents two muslim men (or women) from falling in love?
format_quote Originally Posted by Isambard
Ive combined your replies to save space. Hope you dont mind.
I don't
Alone means I go to the theatre, or to a movie, or just go for lunch. There is nothing inherently sexual, or even any sexual intention behind these acts. Just enjoyment of company.
enjoy the company of a Muslim in an open space with people, if your intents are noble.. if you want to be alone with a lady, it means you have 'special feelings' to which you are entitled so long as you make them lawful!
As I understand it, Satan hangs around when a man and a woman are alone together. This is why if I were a muslim, I should avoid the above with any of my female friends.
The operative word is 'alone'!
If homsexuality is learned, then why shouldnt I avoid doing the above with my male friends?
If indeed you have homoerotic feelings for them, then you should avoid temptation!
If its about control, why cant I control myself around women?
I hope that you can!
cheers!
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Re: What prevents two muslim men (or women) from falling in love?
Homosexuality, moreover, is an abomination and a grave sin. In Hadith, the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, clarifies the gravity of this abomination by saying: “Allah curses the one who does the actions (homosexual practices) of the people of Lut” repeating it three times; and he said in another Hadith: “If a man comes upon a man then they are both adulterers.” Here, he considered homosexuality tantamount to adultery in relation to the Shari’ah punishments because it is an abomination on the one hand and the definition of adultery applies to it on the other hand.
understand then, that this too falls under adultery and subject to the same punishment... Thus if you feel you have homosexual feelings for someone and you are an observant Muslim, you should avoid situations or temptations that will lead you to commit sin.. and if possible seek counseling!
cheers!
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Re: What prevents two muslim men (or women) from falling in love?
format_quote Originally Posted by Isambard
If its about control, why cant I control myself around women?
Perhaps it is because you are around women you do not love?
I can not fathom how a man could desire to cause harm or take advantage of any woman he truly loves.
Lust is understandable and in the proper conditions it is not only acceptable it is demanded.
Lust without love needs to be controlled, hopefully by our own volition. But, to make the volition easier upon our selves we follow a code of modesty that helps reduce thoughts of lust.
To act upon lust for someone you have not made a life commitment to is a betrayal of love
Re: What prevents two muslim men (or women) from falling in love?
Addendum..with regard to your comment on your 'homosexuality being learned'...I'll say there is an element of learned and there is an element of psychology.. if you read papers on homosexuality, you'll find that there is a scale, people to whom the thought of laying with a woman is completely appalling to those who can be bisexual..
Nearly 14,000 sexual references and behaviors are being viewed each year on television [7].Brown, RT. Adolescent sexuality at the dawn of the 21st century. Adolesc Med 2000; 11:19.
undoubtedly plays a factor in exploring ones curiosity,
and there is a purely psychological phenomenon, not unlike that observed in other forms of sexual deviance... people used to treat types of sexual deviations by aversion therapy but it hasn't really worked...I imagine at some point if one reconciles his/her priorities in life, they might make difficult modifications to life style choices....
ultimately it really comes down to giving in to the desires of the lower self or uplifting oneself for something better...
and it all falls under free will, a personal choice!
cheers!
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Re: What prevents two muslim men (or women) from falling in love?
there is no such love that exists between same genders, its just people who call it love when its actually filthy people who want to practice there lusts in new ways on each other.
People say God made me like this, I don't beleive this is true as it would be an insult to God, God created people of different genders so that they are attracted to the opposite gender and not the same. This is why the prophet Lut offered his daughters to the people of sodom so that they would stop the filthy act
Allah will not even look at the people who commited sodomy on the day of judgement
He it is Who sends blessings on you, as do His angels, that He may bring you out from the depths of Darkness into Light: and He is Full of Mercy to the Believers. [Quran {33:43}] www.QuranicAudio.com www.Quran.com
Re: What prevents two muslim men (or women) from falling in love?
format_quote Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
understand then, that this too falls under adultery and subject to the same punishment... Thus if you feel you have homosexual feelings for someone and you are an observant Muslim, you should avoid situations or temptations that will lead you to commit sin.. and if possible seek counseling!
cheers!
sis I don't think anyone has real feelings for a a person of the same gender, its just lust
He it is Who sends blessings on you, as do His angels, that He may bring you out from the depths of Darkness into Light: and He is Full of Mercy to the Believers. [Quran {33:43}] www.QuranicAudio.com www.Quran.com
Re: What prevents two muslim men (or women) from falling in love?
format_quote Originally Posted by aadil77
sis I don't think anyone has real feelings for a a person of the same gender, its just lust
No studies have been able to materialize what it is that causes a certain percentage of the population to have sexual deviance.. and I am not just speaking of homosexuality as there are many in the DSM
Anymore than they are able to understand why 1% of random population will have schizophrenia or vitiligo...scientists can only come up with some plausible conjectures..
Under either circumstance and we have had even a Muslim member here who when converted to Islam was struggling much with his homosexual feelings, but decided to give that life up for Allah swt and seek counseling.. if you go to some of the threads in the cyber counseling section you may find a couple of his posts..
we are tested in many ways and this is the trial of some people... I'll not contend against that which is learned or en vogue via madonna/britney spears on day time TV that gives some impressionable young some shock value and a need to imitate and act in a savage animal manner and as cited above in my previous post TV does play a large factor...But with some it is a genuine disorder... and in some people with Klüver-Bucy Syndrome neurobehavioral changes have been noted that renders them uninhibited and hypersexual with not just members of opposite gender but also the same gender..but I believe in such cases they are beyond counseling, simply because they don't register information the same way the rest of the population do.
All you can say is Al7mdlilah Alzhi 3afana mima ibtala beh ghyorna wafadhlana 3la katheran mim khlaqa tafdeela...and if you know a Muslim who is that way, they try to get them the help they need...
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Re: What prevents two muslim men (or women) from falling in love?
Hm, Muslim man with Muslim woman alone .. there is no need to discuss.
The thing your asking and talking about is ... Muslim man and Muslim man alone, or Muslim woman and Muslim woman alone, right?
Well, If some Muslim man to some other Muslim man looks like a woman and attracts him in that way, CAN'T STAY AND HANG AROUND together. Because, this Muslim man is not seeing MAN but he is seeing WOMAN so , the rule of Man-Woman applies (and vice verse for woman-woman case).
And anyway, there is also punishments for ... homosexuals so ..
there is no problem everyone will get what he deserves and everything is regulated.
Re: What prevents two muslim men (or women) from falling in love?
Neither the Qur'an nor the Hadith dwell very much on same sex lust/love. Women can be unsupervised with other women just as much as men can be with other men. Same gender should have sufficient knowledge about their own gender so as not to need very specific guidelines about proper limits.
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for acting on their lust is a crim!. It doesn't mean that theists are backwards and unable to acquiesce to new research... it is what it is and what has always been..
so , the rule of Man-Woman applies (and vice verse for woman-woman case).
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