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The Qur’an And Violence

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    The Qur’an And Violence (OP)


    THE QUR’AN AND VIOLENCE

    Dr Robert Morey says on pg.39 of his book Islamic Invasion:

    This should not be a surprise to anyone because Islam not only condones such violence (talking about assassination) but actually commands in certain instances, in the Qur’an Muslims are told in Sura 9:5 ‘Kill the disbelievers wherever you find them’ what are Muslims supposed to do to the people who resist Islam? Sura 5:33 says “their punishment is …<question as to why he did the dot dot dot> execution, or crucifixion or the cutting off of the hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land.” In the west such things as cutting off someone’s hands or feet because he would not accept your religion is unthinkable

    [Dr Robert Morey, Islamic Invasion, pg. 39]


    Dr Morey has quoted verse 5:33 from the Qur’an but he has left 3 dots to indicate he has partially quoted the text, he intentionally left out:

    “Those who wage war against Allah and Allah and His Messenger and strive to make mischief in the earth”

    By leaving this part out Morey has attempted to paint the picture that Islam allows the indiscriminate killing of anybody that chooses not to accept the Islamic faith but actually this verse refers to those who wage war on Allah and His Messenger by waging war and causing mischief in the earth.

    to be more elaborate about the type of people this verse from the Qur’an applies to we have to look at the context of Sura 5 verse 33 before and after where Allah relates the happenings of Kane and Abel in which Kane kills his brother unjustly out of envy and in doing so, earned the sin as if he had killed the whole of humanity. Allah tells us the very reason why He revealed the verse:

    Who killed a human being unless it be for manslaughter or mischief in the earth then it is as if he killed the whole of humanity”

    By revealing this verse Allah is informing us about the sanctity of human life and the blood of mankind, this is why directly after this verse Allah says:

    The punishment of those who wage war with Allah and His Messenger and strive with might to make mischief through the land is execution, or crucifixion or the cutting off of the hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land.”

    So this verse refers to a particular type of people and it also strongly indicates that killing people is a form of waging war against God and His Messenger, it does not condone the killing of any westerner who does not want to embrace Islam as Dr Morey would like us to believe.

    Plus Dr Robert Morey tends to forget that there are a great number of Arabic Coptic Christians still living within the Arabian Peninsula, and we can’t forget about the Jews and Christians that lived within the Holy land of Jerusalem at the time of Muslims rule

    In Islamic Sharia there are four Punishments laid down for those who disobey the rulings of Allah and His Prophet (in subject to killing and so forth) who attempts to spread mischief on earth or who arm themselves and overtly intend to kill others…

    1) If one of the mentioned persons kills another then he himself will face the death penalty. If the victims heirs forgive him, he will still be executed because this is not a personal matter of the heirs but involves the social peace and harmony of the whole community (unless accidental)

    2) If he killed the person and also took his wealth then he will be publicly hanged so that it acts as deterrence (for others who desire to commit the crime)

    3) If the person who stole the wealth and did not kill the victim, then his right hand and left foot will be cut off.

    4) If the person does not steal nor kills anyone but instead aimed a weapon to infuse fright and terrorise people, then he will be extradited from his land. In other words, he will be separated from his family and will be imprisoned in another region.

    Some Scholars have commented that such a person should be extradited since there is a possibility that he will continue his crime in the new region. Instead the criminal should be imprisoned until he repents. The real aim is to protect the public from his behaviour, this will not be achieved by extradition but by ensuring he is kept behind bars and he repents sincerely. Makhool writes under this verse that Umar [r] remarked “I will keep such criminals in prison until I am sure they have repented. I will not let them go free into other regions where they will become a source of mischief for the inhabitants.” (Tafseer Qurtubi)

    The reason for revelation of this verse was when the people from the tribe of urena came to Madinah to accept Islam, they became sick. The Holy Prophet [s] advised them to drink milk mixed down with camel’s urine that they were given in charity. On doing this they were cured but they became so reviled that they killed the Shepard of the camels and ran away with 15 camels. The Holy Prophet [s] sent Hazrat Yassar [r] after them. These wretches however martyred Hazrat Yassar [r] after burning his eyes out and cutting of his hands and his feet. Later these people were arrested and bought back. The verse was revealed on this occasion.

    the punishment is applied to these following 3 types of people:

    1) He who obstructs and blocks the road (the highway man)
    2) He who blocks the way and seizes the wealth of the people
    3) and he who kills the people and seizes their goods.

    Their punishment will be the following, banishment, cut of the hands and the feet, execution.

    Also in regards of Islamic Shari ‘a we find In the Shafee fiqh book Umdat as Salik (reliance of the traveller) on pg. 616

    Section 015.0: the penalty for highway robbery

    015.1: the Caliphs obliged to summon whoever uses a weapon (o: though force suffices to be considered a weapon or taking money by dint of ones fists.) and makes people afraid to use the road (o: no matter whether in the wilderness, a village, or in the country, meaning he frightens those who pass along the way by means of his strength or weapons) if the highway man responds to the summons before he has injured anyone, then he is only disciplined. (Def: 017). If he steals the equivalent of 1.058 grams of gold under the previously mentioned conditions (014.1) both his right hand and his left foot are amputated. (A: the difference between a highway man and someone who takes by forcible seizure (dis: 014.6) is that the latter does so within earshot of help. While the offence of the highway man is far greater because he menaces the life line of the community and its trade routes.)

    015.2: if a highway man kills someone, he must be executed, even when the person entitled to retaliation (def: 03) aggress to forgo it. If the highway man robs and kills, he is killed and then left crucified for three days, if he wounds or maims someone; retaliation is taken against him, though it may be waived by those entitled to take it.


    The book further reads:

    015.3: (N: the penalty for highway robbery such as mandatory execution, crucifixion, and amputating the hand and the foot is cancelled if the highway man repents. (A: desists, and gives himself up) before he has been apprehended, though he is still liable to retaliation (def: 03) by parties entitled to it (A: for injuries or deaths he caused to victims and is financially responsible for restoring the money he has taken.) 616 Umdat as Salik.

    from the evidences I have shown we see clearly that the verse 5:33 does not refer to non Muslims who wish not to embrace Islam as Morey would have us think but it refers to those terrorists who rob, kill, harm and oppress people by use of force and so forth and here again we see Islam opposes terrorism.

    Indeed the Islamic law is just and am sure many people would nod their head in agreement with the above but yet there are some that still would think this ruling of the chopping of the hands and the feet to be extreme as many Christians voice but yet when missionaries quote this verse they do great injustice to the context.

    Further on in verse 34 in Sura 5 Allah says:

    Except those who repent before you have them in your power so know that Allah is the all forgiving and Merciful. (5:34)

    If the bandit or the mischief maker repents for his behaviour before the capture and publicly announces his desire to lead a life of peace, then the set punishments (i.e. public execution, to cut of the hands and the feet, to imprison) will be dropped, however if the victim of the crime does not forgive the offender, then the criminal will still face the decreed punishment. A criminal’s repentance will not be accepted after he has been arrested for his crime, but in fact will face the full extent of the law.

    The reason for this is because his repentance is no longer based on sincerity and truthfulness. This case is similar to a person who repents to Allah as he draws his last breathe before dying (Tafseer Qurtubi) and repentance at such a time is not accepted. (Tirmidhi, book of supplications)

    So the criminal has chance to repent and in doing so avoids the punishment only if the victim’s family overlook and pardon his wrongdoing. This is the nature of Allah the all Loving God who is willing to forgive, unlike the God of the Bible whom the Christians and Jews call Yahweh.

    In Jewish law if a burglar breaks into your home and you start fighting him but yet the man is too strong and overpowers you and you are on the brink of being killed when all of a sudden your wife comes to your rescue by grabbing his private's and squeezing them causing the attacker to flee in pain and by this method she saved your life but yet you are commanded by Yahweh to:

    cut of her hands and not to pity her (Deuteronomy 25:11-12)

    is this Just?

    In this respect which is more Just the Qur’an? Or the Bible? Is Yahweh really the God of love as Christians say? In reply to Morey cutting of your wife’s hands because she saves your life by squeezing the secrets of the attacker is unthinkable!

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    Re: The Qur’an And Violence

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    "Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character" [Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Mâlik]


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    Re: The Qur’an And Violence

    brother Joe is Joe98 Joe is short for Joseph/Yusuf
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    Re: The Qur’an And Violence

    I saw the first couple of posts in this thread and some Bozo had the nerve to mention Chechnya in his list of attrocities done by Muslims.
    I don't endorse everything going on there, but if any people have the right to stand up and defend themselves against the oppresor (in this case, the Christians), then it's the Chechnians. I mean, 25% of the population were annihilated and now they've even started to perform weird chemichal experiments on the Muslims there.
    One of my best friends's brother was killed in Chechnya, may Allah accept him as a Shaheed.
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    Re: The Qur’an And Violence

    format_quote Originally Posted by Abu Zakariya View Post
    I saw the first couple of posts in this thread and some Bozo had the nerve to mention Chechnya in his list of attrocities done by Muslims.
    I don't endorse everything going on there, but if any people have the right to stand up and defend themselves against the oppresor (in this case, the Christians), then it's the Chechnians. I mean, 25% of the population were annihilated and now they've even started to perform weird chemichal experiments on the Muslims there.
    One of my best friends's brother was killed in Chechnya, may Allah accept him as a Shaheed.
    Salaam

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    Re: The Qur’an And Violence


    I wrote an article on this topic called "Does Quran Promote Killing of Innocent especially non-muslims? How do you explain 9:5, 8:12, 2:191, 4:88 and many others?" which can be found on http://www.towardsislam.com/dan_1988...-innocent.html
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    Re: The Qur’an And Violence

    DOES THE QURAN ALLOW MUSLIMS TO MURDER ALL THE DISBELIEVERS???

    “Kill all the disbelievers wherever you find them” (Qur’an 9:5)


    1. “Kill the Disbelievers where ever you find them” is actually a mistranslation commonly made by non Muslims again and again, the word “disbelievers” in Arabic is “Kafiruwn” which is not found anywhere in the Arabic text of this verse, the word that is commonly mistranslated is “Mushrikuwn” which literally means “idol worshippers”, so this verse of the Qur’an actually reads:

    “Kill the Idol worshippers where ever you find them” (Qur’an 9:5)

    Yes, one may say that idol worshippers are disbelievers but not all disbelievers are idol worshippers, therefore it is wrong to use the generic term of disbelievers denoting the whole genus of non Muslims, in this manner many orienlentalists have propagated a clouded misinterpretation of Islam of being a violent and barbaric religion.

    You can quickly refute the claims of the skeptic by cross refereing the following verse

    Allah does not forbid you to deal justly and kindly with those who don’t fight you on account of your religion nor drive you out from your homes. Verily Allah loves those who are just. (Qur’an 60:8)

    2. Secondly by quoting this verse for their intended purpose they are in fact making a contextual error, in order for me to explain I have to go through the context of this verse and give a short commentary about the reason for this revelation.

    THE CONTEXT OF SURAH TAWBAH VERSE 5

    [1] This is declaration of disassociation from Allah and His Messenger to those idolaters with whom you had entered into a contract and they did not keep it.

    [2] Then go about in the land for four months and know that you can not tire Allah and Allah is to humiliate the infidels.

    [3] And there is proclamation from Allah and His Messenger to all People on the day of Great Pilgrimage that Allah is rid of the polytheists and so His Messenger, if you then repent it is then good for you, and if you turn you' face then know that you can not tire Allah. And give good tidings to infidels of a painful torment.

    [4] But those Idolaters with whom you had covenanted they did not detract anything in your Contract, and did not help any one against you then fulfil their covenant till the promised day. Undoubtedly, Allah loves the pious ones.

    [5] Then when the sacred months have passed, slay the Idolaters wherever you find them and catch them, and confine them and sit in wait for them at every place; again if they repent and establish prayer and give the poor-due then leave their way. Verily Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.


    Reason for revelation:


    There was a treaty that was drawn between the pagans of Makkah and the Muslims in which their was to be no war for 20 years however the pagans broke the treaty by helping the enemy’s of the Muslims with weapons against them. The pagans were given a four months security with a warning in which if they don’t make up for their wrong doing they would face humiliation except for the idolaters that were true to their contract as we see in verse 4 they had promise of security.

    We see clearly from the context this verse was revealed for that time and that time only, for example the Americans were at war with Vietnam many years ago, suppose the president of America said or the leading commander of the army commanded their soldiers to “kill the Vietnamese wherever you find them”, if I was to quote the president or commander out of the contextual timeframe of his statement, indeed it would make him sound barbaric but if I was to quote in context then indeed it would sound very logical.

    [3] The Qur’an is unique and you will not find another book on the face of the earth like it, I would like to point your attention to the verse that comes after the context:

    [6] And 'O beloved Prophet'. If any of the Idolaters ask your protection, then give him protection that he may hear the word of Allah then convey him to his place of security. This is because they are the people ignorant.

    Now do you know of any army general that would spare the opposition and escort them to a place of safety? Indeed this ruling is very unique, and Islam has many other rulings which offer security to innocent people in war and so forth, I lay down the challenge to anybody that can find me a more Merciful and Just battle warrior than my beloved Prophet Muhammad [peace be upon him].

    [4] THE TABLES CAN BE TURNED

    As Islam can be made out to be a ruthless and barbaric religion by orienlentalists and the media by quoting a few verses out of context so can Christianity and Judaism even more so by using the same methodology, for example I present these following verse from the Bible:

    [1] you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy.” (Deuteronomy 7:2)

    [2] You are to hamstring their horses and burn their chariots.” (Joshua 11:6)

    According to the New Testament Jesus said:

    [3] But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. (Luke 19:27)

    [4] I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I if it be already kindled? (Luke 12:49)

    [5] Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division (Luke 12:51)

    [6] Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
    For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. (Matthew 10:34-35)

    [7] If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. (Luke 14:26)

    8:12 is commonly used to say Islam teaches to strike fear into the heart of the disbelievers but if you actually look at the verse and what the people of tafseer have to say about its context and reason for revelation you will find that Allah sent angels down to aid the Muslims in a battle and Allah commanded these angels to strike fear into the hearts of the disbelievers, therefore it is a command to the Angels.

    2:191 is very easy to figure by looking at the context in which you cant get any more Just than that when it comes to the ettiquettes of war, the Muslims are told not to transgress limits.

    If you look back at this whole thread i am very sure you will find many Answers, i have looked into these subjects and still am looking.

    wasalams
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    Re: The Qur’an And Violence

    format_quote Originally Posted by Prawned View Post
    Just out of curiousity, and I'm just asking because I am curious, why does a religion of peace have rules of combat?
    I guess the 911 highjackers had not reach that page yet ,Huh?
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    Re: The Qur’an And Violence

    format_quote Originally Posted by Alphaseed View Post
    I guess the 911 highjackers had not reach that page yet ,Huh?
    Salaam

    Ask the US goverment, all they wanted to do was change the public opinion so they were angery and wanted to go to war and all of a sudden the US announces it's going to war with terror, funny really since america is killing people day in day out, and the majority of the west doesn't seem to care, I don't see no memorial's for the iraqi children, Oh I forgot the US is happy to think of them as the enemy.
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