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Oneness of God

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    Oneness of God (OP)



    Oneness of God
    by Aisha Brown

    The three monotheistic religions-- Judaism, Christianity, and Islam-- all purport to share one fundamental concept: belief in God as the Supreme Being, the Creator and Sustainer of the Universe. Known as "tawhid" in Islam, this concept of the Oneness of God was stressed by Moses in a Biblical passage known as the "Shema", or the Jewish creed of faith: "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord." (Deuteronomy 6:4)


    It was repeated word-for-word approximately 1500 years later by Jesus when he said "...The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; the Lord our God is one Lord." (Mark 12:29)


    Muhammad came along approximately 600 years later, bringing the same message again: "And your God is One God: there is no God but He, ..." (The Qur'an 2:163).


    Christianity has digressed from the concept of the Oneness of God, however, into a vague and mysterious doctrine that was formulated during the fourth century. This doctrine, which continues to be a source of controversy both within and without the Christian religion, is known as the Doctrine of the Trinity. Simply put, the Christian doctrine of the Trinity states that God is the union of three divine persons-- the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit-- in one divine being.


    If that concept, put in basic terms, sounds confusing, the flowery language in the actual text of the doctrine lends even more mystery to the matter:


    "...we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity...for there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, another of the Holy Ghost is all one...they are not three gods, but one God...the whole three persons are co-eternal and co-equal...he therefore that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity..." (excerpts from the Athanasian Creed).


    Let's put this together in a different form: one person, God the Father + one person, God the Son, + one person, God the Holy Ghost = one person, God the What? Is this English or is this gibberish?


    It is said that Athanasius, the bishop who formulated this doctrine, confessed that the more he wrote on the matter, the less capable he was of clearly expressing his thoughts regarding it.


    How did such a confusing doctrine get its start?*


    Trinity in the Bible


    References in the Bible to a Trinity of divine beings are vague, at best.


    In Matthew 28:19, we find Jesus telling his disciples to go out and preach to all nations. While this "Great Commission" does make mention of the three persons who later become components of the Trinity, the phrase "...baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" is quite clearly an addition to Biblical text--that is, not the actual words of Jesus-- as can be seen by two factors:


    1) baptism in the early Church, as discussed by Paul in his letters, was done only in the name of Jesus; and


    2) the "Great Commission" was found in the first gospel written, that of Mark, bears no mention of Father, Son and/or Holy Ghost--see Mark 16:15.


    The only other reference in the Bible to a Trinity can be found in the Epistle of I John 5:7. Biblical scholars of today, however, have admitted that the phrase "... there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one" is definitely a "later addition" to Biblical text, and it is not found in any of today's versions of the Bible.


    It can, therefore, be seen that the concept of a Trinity of divine beings was not an idea put forth by Jesus or any other prophet of God. This doctrine, now subscribed to by Christians all over the world, is entirely man-made in origin.


    The Doctrine Takes Shape


    While Paul of Tarsus, the man who could rightfully be considered the true founder of Christianity, did formulate many of its doctrines, that of the Trinity was not among them. He did, however, lay the groundwork for such when he put forth the idea of Jesus being a "divine Son". After all, a Son does need a Father, and what about a vehicle for God's revelations to man? In essence, Paul named the principal players, but it was the later Church people who put the matter together.


    Tertullian, a lawyer and presbyter of the third-century Church in Carthage, was the first to use the word "Trinity" when he put forth the theory that the Son and the Spirit participate in the being of God, but all are of one being of substance with the Father.


    A Formal Doctrine Is Drawn Up


    When controversy over the matter of the Trinity blew up in 318 between two church men from Alexandria--Arius, the deacon, and Alexander, his bishop-- Emperor Constantine stepped into the fray.


    Although Christian dogma was a complete mystery to him, he did realize that a unified church was necessary for a strong kingdom. When negotiation failed to settle the dispute, Constantine called for the first ecumenical council in Church history in order to settle the matter once and for all.


    Six weeks after the 300 bishops first gathered at Nicea in 325, the doctrine of the Trinity was hammered out. The God of the Christians was now seen as having three essences, or natures, in the form of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.


    The Church Puts Its Foot Down


    The matter was far from settled, however, despite high hopes for such on the part of Constantine. Arius and the new bishop of Alexandria, a man named Athanasius, began arguing over the matter even as the Nicene Creed was being signed; "Arianism" became a catch-word from that time onward for anyone who didn't hold to the doctrine of the Trinity.


    It wasn't until 451, at the Council of Chalcedon that, with the approval of the Pope, the Nicene/ Constantinople Creed was set as authoritative. Debate on the matter was no longer tolerated; to speak out against the Trinity was now considered blasphemy, and such earned stiff sentences that ranged from mutilation to death. Christians now turned on Christians, maiming and slaughtering thousands because of a difference of opinion.


    Debate Continues


    Brutal punishments and even death did not stop the controversy over the doctrine of the Trinity, however, and the said controversy continues even today.


    The majority of Christians, when asked to explain this fundamental doctrine of their faith, can offer nothing more than "I believe it because I was told to do so." It is explained away as "mystery" -- yet the Bible says in I Corinthians 14:33 that "... God is not the author of confusion ..."


    The Unitarian denomination of Christianity has kept alive the teachings of Arius in saying that God is one; they do not believe in the Trinity. As a result, mainstream Christians abhor them, and the National Council of Churches has refused their admittance. In Unitarianism, the hope is kept alive that Christians will someday return to the preachings of Jesus: "... Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and Him only shalt thou serve." (Luke 4:8)


    Islam and the Matter of the Trinity


    While Christianity may have a problem defining the essence of God, such is not the case in Islam.


    "They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity, for there is no god except One God" (Qur'an 5:73). It is worth noting that the Arabic language Bible uses the name "Allah" as the name of God.


    Suzanne Haneef, in her book What Everyone Should Know About Islam and Muslims (Library of Islam, 1985), puts the matter quite succinctly when she says "But God is not like a pie or an apple which can be divided into three thirds which form one whole; if God is three persons or possesses three parts, He is assuredly not the Single, Unique, Indivisible Being which God is and which Christianity professes to believe in." (pp. 183-184)


    Looking at it from another angle, the Trinity designates God as being three separate entities -- the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. If God is the Father and also the Son, He would then be the Father of Himself because He is His own Son. This is not exactly logical.


    Christianity claims to be a monotheistic religion. Monotheism, however, has as its fundamental belief that God is One; the Christian doctrine of the Trinity -- God being Three-in-One-- is seen by Islam as a form of polytheism. Christians don't revere just One God, they revere three.


    This is a charge not taken lightly by Christians, however. They, in turn, accuse the Muslims of not even knowing what the Trinity is, pointing out that the Qur'an sets it up as Allah the Father, Jesus the Son, and Mary his mother. While veneration of Mary has been a figment of the Catholic Church since 431 when she was given the title "Mother of God" by the Council of Ephesus, a closer examination of the verses in the Qur'an most often cited by Christians in support of their accusation, shows that the designation of Mary by the Qur'an as a "member" of the Trinity, is simply not true.


    While the Qur'an does condemn both trinitarianism (the Qur'an 4:171; 5:73) and the worship of Jesus and his mother Mary (the Qur'an 5:116), nowhere does it identify the actual three components of the Christian Trinity. The position of the Qur'an is that WHO or WHAT comprises this doctrine is not important; what is important is that the very notion of a Trinity is an affront against the concept of One God.


    In conclusion, we see that the doctrine of the Trinity is a concept conceived entirely by man; there is no sanction whatsoever from God to be found regarding the matter simply because the whole idea of a Trinity of divine beings has no place in monotheism. In the Qur'an, God's Final Revelation to mankind, we find His stand quite clearly stated in a number of eloquent passages,


    "... your God is One God: whoever expects to meet his Lord, let him work righteousness, and, in the worship of his Lord, admit no one as partner." (the Qur'an 18:110)


    "... take not, with God, another object of worship, lest you should be thrown into Hell, blameworthy and rejected." (the Qur'an 17:39)


    -- because, as God tells us over and over again in a Message that is echoed throughout ALL His Revealed Scriptures,


    "... I am your Lord and Cherisher: therefore, serve Me (and no other) ..." (the Qur'an 21:92)
    Oneness of God

    The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said:
    "Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character" [Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Mâlik]


    Visit Ansâr Al-'Adl's personal page HERE.
    Excellent resources on Islam listed HERE.

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    Re: Oneness of God

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    format_quote Originally Posted by mule
    I think you are using the logic of man to measure the greatness of God.
    Can you show me where I am measuring the greatness of God?
    I never did. I just showed that the trinity can logically not be considered monotheism.

    Now its up to you if you wish to tell me that your religion is illogical, I am not making that conclusion I am simply using the logic given to me by God to analyse the truth.

    And the truth is that the trinity is not monotheism.

    The Koran does not have the word "royal plural" in it either........

    Let us (plural) make man in our(plural) image. So God(singular) created man in his(singular) own image, in the image of God (singular)created he him..........
    So you are saying that God using the plural=multiple Gods? Or multiple ;persons' in a God?

    Anyway, this use of 'we' according to Islam is the Royal We. You may read this fatwa for more info: http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=en...e&QR=606&dgn=4

    In arabic, it is not unusual to see a single arab say "naqool" (we say), when he is only one person. This is not evidence for trinity at all!

    And why three? Why not four? Or five?
    And why Christ as His son? Why not Moses? Or David? Or John the Baptist?

    I need more proof than that, mule.

    I was not asking you a question. I know what that means. I don't agree with your response. I also don't believe that all the sons of God are divine. Some are servants and others angels and yet in Jesus' case he called God his father.
    many prophets were called son of God.

    Wikipedia says about the tile "Son of God":
    the title belongs also to any one whose piety has placed him in a filial relation to God (see Wisdom ii. 13, 16, 18; v. 5, where "the sons of God" are identical with "the saints"; comp. Ecclus. [Sirach] iv. 10).


    In Judaism, it is through such personal relations that the individual becomes conscious of God's fatherhood, and gradually in Hellenistic and rabbinical literature "sonship to God" was ascribed first to every Israelite and then to every member of the human race (Abot iii. 15, v. 20; Ber. v. 1; see Abba). In one midrash, the Torah is said to be God's "daughter" (Leviticus Rabbah xx.)"

    How do we know which ones are divine and which aren't? :confused: Is it pick and choose? Is there an election?

    Looking forward to your reply,
    Ansar
    Oneness of God

    The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said:
    "Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character" [Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Mâlik]


    Visit Ansâr Al-'Adl's personal page HERE.
    Excellent resources on Islam listed HERE.
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    Re: Oneness of God

    SpaceFalcon2001,

    As I have mentioned before, it was well known before christianity existed that that refered to His Holy Court of Him and Angels, in their decision to create the world.
    You are better using the argument that God is refering to himself as a royal plural.

    You are not made in the image of Angels you are made in the image of God.

    Isa 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I [am] the LORD that maketh all [things]; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

    Jesus is not Equal with HaShem, infact we Jews have a prayer called Avienu Malkeinu, Our Father Our King! We say it quite often, calling HaShem our father, yet none of us are magically transformed to become saviours of the universe and new Gods. Perhaps we lack the proper pagan mythology to back us up?
    hm.....back then it must meant something different, because the passage says that he was about to get stoned for making himself equal to God. Pagan mythology? Gasp, that's not very nice.

    Regardless, the very fact that Jesus broke the sabbath by picking grain and telling others to break the sabbath (in addition to many other instances of Jesus breaking the commandments) shows that he was not a good Jew, and could never be Moshiach:
    The Moshiach will be a man of this world, an observant Jew with “fear of G-d”. (Isaiah 11:2)
    That musta meant that he was Lord of the sabbath.

    The Moshiach was a good man. You must consider the new testament reliable.

    mule
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    Re: Oneness of God

    format_quote Originally Posted by mule
    You are better using the argument that God is refering to himself as a royal plural.
    Sorry, I only have one God.
    You are not made in the image of Angels you are made in the image of God.
    Here is what has been true since the torah was written:
    "And God said to the ministering angels who had been created on the second day of creation of theworld, 'Let us make Man'" (Tagum Jonathan)

    When Moses wrote the Torah, and came to this verse (let us make), which is in the plural and implies that there is more than one creator, he said: "Sovereign of the Universe! Why do You thus furnish a pretext for heretics to maintain that there is a plurality of divines?" "Write!", HaShem replied. "Whoever wishes to err will err... Instead, let them learn from their Creator Who created all, yet when He came to create Man, He took counsel with the ministering Angels!" (Midrash)

    Thus, HaShem taught that one shouls always consult others before embarking on major new initiatives, and He was not deterred by the possibility that some might choose to find a sacrilegious implication in the verse. The implication of HaShem's response, "Whoever wishes to err," is that one who sincerely seeks the truth will see it; one who looks for an excuse to blasphame will find it.
    HaShem spoke with his Angels that he created out of respect to them, to show them that their creation was not meaningless! For HaShem would not want his closest servants to become enamored with the idea that they were not important.
    The Moshiach was a good man. You must consider the new testament reliable.
    Was? That interesting as none of the prophicies have been fulfilled. Jesus was a sinner, just like everyone else. He broke the sabbath and deserved to be stoned, as a failure for a Jew (and a dead one at that, if he even existed), he has no hope of being anyone's Moshiach.
    Last edited by SpaceFalcon2001; 03-16-2005 at 01:38 AM. Reason: minor fix
    Oneness of God

    سلام
    الله اكبر
    لا إله إلا الله
    أمّة إسرائيل حيّه
    هذا أرضي و بلدي
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    Re: Oneness of God

    SpaceFalcon,
    format_quote Originally Posted by SpaceFalcon2001
    Sorry, I only have one God.
    The Royal Plural does not indicate more than one God. It is used in many languages by an authority to refer to themself. So it refers to a single entity.

    The problem I have with your interpretation that it refers to angels as well is that God ascribes actions to Himself using "we" which could not be done by angels. Angels are not creators. Angels do not give life and death. Angels are not the kings of the universe.

    your interpretation places the angels on an equal level with God, Himself.

    Oneness of God

    The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said:
    "Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character" [Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Mâlik]


    Visit Ansâr Al-'Adl's personal page HERE.
    Excellent resources on Islam listed HERE.
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    Re: Oneness of God

    format_quote Originally Posted by Ansar Al-Haq
    The problem I have with your interpretation that it refers to angels as well is that God ascribes actions to Himself using "we" which could not be done by angels. Angels are not creators. Angels do not give life and death. Angels are not the kings of the universe.

    your interpretation places the angels on an equal level with God, Himself.
    Ah, I am sorry Al-haq that you are confused. True enough, it says "let us make man in our image" (that is to say Man would be fashioned to be self aware, and have a mind of his own), however, I did not say that Angels actually did the creating. "Let us" is simply providing the Angels with respect, to read on:
    "Let us make Man in Our image, after Our likeness... So God created Man in His image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He [singular] created them
    Just as Man is unique, so the manner of his creation was unique and exalted. Throughout the chapter, God brought all things into being with an utterance, but He created Man with His own hands, as it were (Rashi)
    Oneness of God

    سلام
    الله اكبر
    لا إله إلا الله
    أمّة إسرائيل حيّه
    هذا أرضي و بلدي
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    Re: Oneness of God

    You're better off using the argument for royal plural.

    Sorry, I only have one God.
    Sigh........so do I.

    Was? That interesting as none of the prophicies have been fulfilled. Jesus was a sinner, just like everyone else. He broke the sabbath and deserved to be stoned, as a failure for a Jew (and a dead one at that, if he even existed), he has no hope of being anyone's Moshiach
    At least I can say you believe he existed.
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    Re: Oneness of God

    format_quote Originally Posted by mule
    At least I can say you believe he existed.
    Well, that's not too hard to believe. Jesus was probbly real, just like Shabbat Zevi we know was real. Both became acclaimed messiahs, although Jesus has had his name dragged through more mud. Not to mention the texts about Jesus that predate the Gospels that speak of him, not as a God, but as a quote worthy man Read: Gospel of Thomas, Gospel of Q.
    Last edited by SpaceFalcon2001; 03-16-2005 at 03:23 AM. Reason: minor fix
    Oneness of God

    سلام
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    هذا أرضي و بلدي
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    Re: Oneness of God

    I don't believe in a gospel of Q. I have never read the Gospel of Thomas. Don't know a thing about it.

    I have enough work just reading the bible. If I want to predate the gospels I go to the old testament.
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    Re: Oneness of God

    format_quote Originally Posted by mule
    I don't believe in a gospel of Q. I have never read the Gospel of Thomas. Don't know a thing about it.

    I have enough work just reading the bible. If I want to predate the gospels I go to the old testament.
    When you're ready to move beyond "church approved" writings:
    www.earlychristianwritings.com
    Oneness of God

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    Re: Oneness of God

    format_quote Originally Posted by SpaceFalcon2001
    Ah, I am sorry Al-haq that you are confused. True enough, it says "let us make man in our image" (that is to say Man would be fashioned to be self aware, and have a mind of his own), however, I did not say that Angels actually did the creating. "Let us" is simply providing the Angels with respect, to read on:
    Are we in the image of the angels as well? This means that the angels have the same image as God right?

    There are many more difficulties withi this interpretation.

    And may I ask which jewish groups supports this interpretation? Because all the Jewish websites I have been to use the 'royal we' explanation.
    http://www.torah.org/learning/lifeli...bereishis.html
    Oneness of God

    The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said:
    "Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character" [Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Mâlik]


    Visit Ansâr Al-'Adl's personal page HERE.
    Excellent resources on Islam listed HERE.
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    Re: Oneness of God

    It is (as I quoted) a Midrash, taught to better understand the text's intention, and of the great commentator Rashi.

    Further, we are made in the image of HaShem, just as the angels are, for even though they are created purely as servants of HaShem, they too have the ability to think as we do: the ability to rationalize their actions, and make choices.
    Oneness of God

    سلام
    الله اكبر
    لا إله إلا الله
    أمّة إسرائيل حيّه
    هذا أرضي و بلدي
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    Re: Oneness of God

    In the bible does it say that angels are made in the image of God?
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    Re: Oneness of God

    format_quote Originally Posted by SpaceFalcon
    ...[angels can] make choices.
    According to Islam they cannot. They can only do what Allah swt commands them to. They have no choice in any matter. They do what is programmed into their nature.
    Oneness of God

    The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said:
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    Re: Oneness of God

    format_quote Originally Posted by Ansar Al-Haq
    According to Islam they cannot. They can only do what Allah swt commands them to. They have no choice in any matter. They do what is programmed into their nature.
    Well that is a difference of our theologies I suppose.

    My question here is, why do you think Satan is a Jinn if he was to rule over all the angels? Why would Allah bother puting a lower life form in charge of Angels?
    Oneness of God

    سلام
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    Re: Oneness of God

    I don't think he was a lower life form, and I don't think he was put in charge of the angels. That may be another difference in our theologies.
    Oneness of God

    The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said:
    "Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character" [Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Mâlik]


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    Excellent resources on Islam listed HERE.
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    Re: Oneness of God

    format_quote Originally Posted by mule
    In the bible does it say that angels are made in the image of God?
    Not quite specifically, but we do see them as early as Genesis 18/19 walking sometimes as Men, and other times as Angels, paying attention to customs and the ways of other peoples.

    The defenition of an Angel is a function HaShem wishes to be performed, they are not puppets (or why not have HaShem do any job that needs to be done himself?), they need to be independant enough to make the choices that will result in their mission being fulfilled.
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    Re: Oneness of God

    format_quote Originally Posted by Ansar Al-Haq
    I don't think he was a lower life form, and I don't think he was put in charge of the angels. That may be another difference in our theologies.
    Sorry, I was working off this:
    In Islam, Satan is known as Iblis إبليس or "Shaitan شيطان", who was the chief of the angels until he disobeyed Allah by refusing to prostrate himself before Adam because he refused to accept Man as his superior. Islam describes Satan as a Jinn, an entity made of fire, and not of the angels made from light.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satan, is this not true entirely?
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    Re: Oneness of God

    Sorry, I was working off this:
    Quote:
    In Islam, Satan is known as Iblis إبليس or "Shaitan شيطان", who was the chief of the angels until he disobeyed Allah by refusing to prostrate himself before Adam because he refused to accept Man as his superior. Islam describes Satan as a Jinn, an entity made of fire, and not of the angels made from light.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satan, is this not true entirely?
    That is not correct. Iblis was the highest of the Jinns before he disobeyed. Now, he is the chief of the Shaytans (Devils).

    Please bear in mind that wikis are unreliable sources. They are forum encies that are often very inaccurate.

    For more info --:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Accuracy_dispute

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    Re: Oneness of God

    format_quote Originally Posted by kadafi
    Please bear in mind that wikis are unreliable sources. They are forum encies that are often very inaccurate.
    Of course it's unreliable, it's a public encyclopedia, that has many advantages and disadvantages to it. The best thing is that you can still go in there and make it correct!
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    Re: Oneness of God

    format_quote Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl View Post
    Christianity has digressed from the concept of the Oneness of God, however, into a vague and mysterious doctrine that was formulated during the fourth century. This doctrine, which continues to be a source of controversy both within and without the Christian religion, is known as the Doctrine of the Trinity. Simply put, the Christian doctrine of the Trinity states that God is the union of three divine persons-- the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit-- in one divine being.
    The only thing that happened in the 4th century was Constantine coined the term trinity, but He is not the inventer of the Father calling Jesus His Son nor is he the inventer of the Holy Spirit who is God according to the Bible. If Constantine were never a factor we would still have the message Paul gives. That we are only saved by grace through faith. It is a gift that cannot be earned or worked for.

    All have sinned and come short of God's glory and standard; the wages of sin is death, but God's gift is eternal life through Jesus Christ. Salvation is a gift that can only be received by faith not by works otherwise a person can take the credit and God doesn't get the glory. Don't blame some 4th century pagan for Christianity or taking from the onesness of God. It was written before Constantine was born: he that has the son has life; he that doesn't have the son, has not life but the wrath of God abides on him. The Lord our God is one.
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