Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) Prophecised in other Scriptures.

format_quote Originally Posted by A_Way_Of_Life

But here is the thing, Jesus (Peace be upon him) said that only if he "goes will the comforter come", the Holy Spirit was already on Earth long before the time of Jesus (Peace be upon him)

Who is the Holy Spirit, in your understanding, if you claim he was already present?

If you accept the text, I am sure you will agree that we must not only take the parts we want to prove our point , but properly interpret the text and text surrounding it that has relevance?

Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

I am sorry A_Way_Of_Life, it cannot refer to Muhammad. One receives the Holy Spirit, in my experience, when I repented of all my sins and asked God for forgiveness, understanding and accepting that Jesus has paid for my sins. I do not have to do anything, as a matter of fact I cannot do anything to deserve this forgiveness. I stand in awe that God sees fit to forgive my sins and has accepted me as His child. I can only respond with gratitude.
There are many that try and deserve being a child of God. This, I think is really a total overestimation of our good deeds, God's holiness and the real nature of sin (apart from the fact that the Bible teaches us that our good deeds cannot earn our salvation)

format_quote Originally Posted by fromgenesis

Who is the Holy Spirit, in your understanding, if you claim he was already present?

If you accept the text, I am sure you will agree that we must not only take the parts we want to prove our point , but properly interpret the text and text surrounding it that has relevance?
I am sorry A_Way_Of_Life, it cannot refer to Muhammad. One receives the Holy Spirit, in my experience, when I repented of all my sins and asked God for forgiveness, understanding and accepting that Jesus has paid for my sins. I do not have to do anything, as a matter of fact I cannot do anything to deserve this forgiveness. I stand in awe that God sees fit to forgive my sins and has accepted me as His child. I can only respond with gratitude.
There are many that try and deserve being a child of God. This, I think is really a total overestimation of our good deeds, God's holiness and the real nature of sin (apart from the fact that the Bible teaches us that our good deeds cannot earn our salvation)

The holy spirit in Islam is the Angel Gabriel (Peace be upon him)

The comforter that is prophesied in the Gospel of John can only be referring to prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him)


This link can explain things better than I can.

http://www.answering-christianity.com/prediction.htm

These videos are from a former Christian who reverted to Islam.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIoXsBQ-m-I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3v3Y...eature=related

It is believed Prophet Jesus (Peace be upon him) spoke Aramaic. This clip is from "The passion of the Christ". He prophesies Prophet Ahmad (Peace be upon him); Ahmad (peace be upon him) is another name for Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him). Prophet Jesus (Peace be upon him) prophesies him by name in Aramaic.

format_quote Originally Posted by A_Way_Of_Life

The holy spirit in Islam is the Angel Gabriel (Peace be upon him)

Perhaps in Islam, but it is not possible to identify the Angel Gabriel with the Holy Spirit in Christianity. See this story:

Luke 1

26In the sixth month, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee, 27to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin's name was Mary. 28The angel went to her and said, "Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you."
29Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. 30But the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, you have found favor with God. 31You will be with child and give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus. 32He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever; his kingdom will never end."

34"How will this be," Mary asked the angel, "since I am a virgin?"

35The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God. 36Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a child in her old age, and she who was said to be barren is in her sixth month. 37For nothing is impossible with God."

38"I am the Lord's servant," Mary answered. "May it be to me as you have said." Then the angel left her.

Now shortening the story up a bit to point out why they cannot be one and the same, note the following:

1) God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee, to a virgin [who's] name was Mary.

2) The angel said to her, "Mary, you have found favor with God. You will be with child and give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus."

3) Mary asked the angel, "How will this be, since I am a virgin?"

4) The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you...so the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God."


Gabriel did not indicate that he would have anything to do with Mary becoming pregnant, but he did indicate the the Holy Spirit would. Thus we are talking about two different entitites.


There are many other reasons, but this should be sufficient to show that at least from a Christian understanding (which is what you need when reading the Christian scriptures) the Holy Spirit and Gabriel are not one and the same, even if they might be portrayed that way in the Qur'an.

format_quote Originally Posted by A_Way_Of_Life

The comforter that is prophesied in the Gospel of John can only be referring to prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him)

This is hardly true.

First, the actual term is parakletos which you have translated Comforter (no criticism of that translation), is Counselor in the Bible I generally use, and translated into various other terms in other Bibles, as there is no precise translation for it in English or any other language I know. Never have I seen any Bible translate it as Muhammad. But I don't read Arabic, maybe it is that there. You tell me:

16 وَسَوْفَ أَطْلُبُ مِنَ الآبِ أَنْ يُعْطِيَكُمْ مُعِيناً آخَرَ يَبْقَى مَعَكُمْ إِلَى الأَبَدِ،

17 وَهُوَ رُوحُ الْحَقِّ، الَّذِي لاَ يَقْدِرُ الْعَالَمُ أَنْ يَتَقَبَّلَهُ لأَنَّهُ لاَ يَرَاهُ وَلاَ يَعْرِفُهُ، وَأَمَّا أَنْتُمْ فَتَعْرِفُونَهُ لأَنَّهُ فِي وَسَطِكُمْ، وَسَيَكُونُ فِي دَاخِلِكُمْ.

Second, Muhammad does not do the things that the Comforter is said to do:

• to be with you forever
• he lives with you
• will be n you

As Jesus was speaking directly to the disciples, and Muhammad was not even yet alive, how could any of these be true of Muhammad?


Later Jesus adds some more information about this Counselor/Comforter/paracletos:

When the Counselor comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me.

John 15:26

If we are to identify this Counselor/Comforter/paracletos with Muhammad, then it would mean that Muhammad was not sent by Allah, but by Jesus. It would also mean that Muhammad's job is to testify about Jesus. Yet, that does not seem to be the focus of Muhammad's life and mission, other than to deny those things that the Gospel of John records about Jesus.

So while Muslims love the verse in which Jesus says:

But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you.

John 16:7

They pick out only one small portion of it and say it points to Muhammad and dismiss everything else that Jesus told us was also true with regard to the Counselor. Things such as are included, not just in the above passages, but in Jesus continuation of his comments in this very passage:

John 16

7But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment: 9in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me; 10in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; 11and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned.
12"I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you. 15All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you.

Which of the above mentioned things are true of Muhammad?

1. Muhammad coud not come unless Jesus went away.
2. Muhammad convicted the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment.
3. Muhammad would convict the world of sin because men do not believe in Jesus.

It is not enough for Muhammad to do some of these things, they must all be true of him, and all of the ones menitoned above in the other passages as well, if one is to consider that Muhammad is the one being referred to by Jesus when he speaks of the paracletos. If even one of these things is untrue of Muhammad, then he is not the one Jesus was speaking about. Simply put Muhammad does not qualify, for though some of these items might be interpreted to be true of him, the majority definitely are not.

And understand also this phrase "believe in" as John uses it. To "believe in" is not to simply affirm that you believe something about Jesus, but that one actually puts his/her trust in Jesus, that one depends on Jesus. To do so the way that John is speaking of would be for Muhammad to teach that Jesus could be depended on in the same way that Allah can; it would be to make Jesus a partner with Allah, to associate a human being with Allah. Surely Muhammad would never do such a thing. I am surprised Muslims even want to make the application.

format_quote Originally Posted by ASeeker

It is surely important and fair for Islam to take account of the views of Jews and Christians about the interpretation of the scriptures which belong to them. I have never heard of any Jew or any Christian who accepts the assertion that any part of the Bible says anything about Muhammad.

What Bible are you reading? There are so many different versions of the Bible you could be reading the wrong one

Your Bible also forbids you from drinking alcohol and eating pork... but you conveniently ignore that and even serve wine in the church lol.

So ignoring Muhammad(PBUH) in the Bible is a relatively easy task in comparison.

Peace

format_quote Originally Posted by fromgenesis

No answer to the logical problem faced. You are addressing issues irrelevant to the question posed.

I don't think you understood my post. I said you seem to have a habit of ignoring evidences in your own Bible.

Here is an Example:

PROPHET MUHAMMAD (pbuh) IN THE BIBLE
by Dr. Zakir Naik


Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in the Old Testament:

The Qur’an mentions in Surah Al-Araf chapter 7 verse 157:

"Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures) in the law and the Gospel".


1.
MUHAMMAD (PBUH) PROPHESISED IN THE BOOK OF DEUTERONOMY:

Almighty God speaks to Moses in Book of Deuteronomy chapter 18 verse 18:

"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and I will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."

The Christians say that this prophecy refers to Jesus (pbuh) because Jesus (pbuh) was like Moses (pbuh). Moses (pbuh) was a Jew, as well as Jesus (pbuh) was a Jew. Moses (pbuh) was a Prophet and Jesus (pbuh) was also a Prophet.

If these two are the only criteria for this prophecy to be fulfilled, then all the Prophets of the Bible who came after
Moses (pbuh) such as Solomon, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Malachi, John the Baptist, etc. (pbut) will
fulfill this prophecy since all were Jews as well as prophets.

However, it is Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) who is like Moses (pbuh):


i)
Both had a father and a mother, while Jesus (pbuh) was born miraculously without any male intervention.

[Mathew 1:18 and Luke 1:35 and also Al-Qur'an 3:42-47]


ii)
Both were married and had children. Jesus (pbuh) according to the Bible did not marry nor had children.

iii)
Both died natural deaths. Jesus (pbuh) has been raised up alive. (4:157-158)

Muhammad (pbuh) is from among the brethren of Moses (pbuh). Arabs are brethren of Jews. Abraham (pbuh) had two sons: Ishmail and Isaac (pbut). The Arabs are the descendants of Ishmail (pbuh) and the Jews are the descendants of Isaac (pbuh).

Words in the mouth:

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was unlettered and whatever revelations he received from Almighty God he repeated them verbatim.

"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."

[Deuteronomy 18:18]


iv)
Both besides being Prophets were also kings i.e. they could inflict capital punishment. Jesus (pbuh) said, "My kingdom is not of this world." (John 18:36).

v)
Both were accepted as Prophets by their people in their lifetime but Jesus (pbuh) was rejected by his
people. John chapter 1 verse 11 states, "He came unto his own, but his own received him not."

iv)
Both brought new laws and new regulations for their people. Jesus (pbuh) according to the Bible did not bring any new laws. (Mathew 5:17-18).

2.
It is Mentioned in the book of Deuteronomy chapter 18:19

"And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not harken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him."


3.
Muhammad (pbuh) is prophesised in the book of Isaiah:

It is mentioned in the book of Isaiah chapter 29 verse 12:

"And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned."

When Archangel Gabrail commanded Muhammad (pbuh) by saying Iqra - "Read", he replied, "I am not learned".


4.
prophet Muhammad (pbuh) mentioned by name in the old testament:

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is mentioned by name in the Song of Solomon chapter 5 verse 16:

"Hikko Mamittakim we kullo Muhammadim Zehdoodeh wa Zehraee Bayna Jerusalem."

"His mouth is most sweet: yea, he is altogether lovely. This is my beloved, and this is my friend, O daughters
of Jerusalem."

In the Hebrew language im is added for respect. Similarely im is added after the name of Prophet Muhammad
(pbuh) to make it Muhammadim. In English translation they have even translated the name of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as "altogether lovely", but in the Old Testament in Hebrew, the name of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is yet present.


Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in the New Testament:

Al-Qur'an Chapter 61 Verse 6:

"And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said, 'O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me and giving glad tidings of a messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmed.' But when he came to them with clear signs, they said, 'This is evident sorcery!' "

All the prophecies mentioned in the Old Testament regarding Muhammad (pbuh) besides applying to the Jews also hold good for the Christians.


1.
John chapter 14 verse 16:
"And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever."

2.
Gospel of John chapter 15 verse 26:

"But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which
proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me."

3.
Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 7:

"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not
come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you".

"Ahmed" or "Muhammad" meaning "the one who praises" or "the praised one" is almost the translation of the
Greek word Periclytos. In the Gospel of John 14:16, 15:26, and 16:7. The word 'Comforter' is used in the English translation for the Greek word Paracletos which means advocate or a kind friend rather than a comforter.
Paracletos is the warped reading for Periclytos. Jesus (pbuh) actually prophesised Ahmed by name. Even the
Greek word Paraclete refers to the Prophet (pbuh) who is a mercy for all creatures.

Some Christians say that the Comforter mentioned in these prophecies refers to the Holy Sprit. They fail to realise
that the prophecy clearly says that only if Jesus (pbuh) departs will the Comforter come. The Bible states that the
Holy Spirit was already present on earth before and during the time of Jesus (pbuh), in the womb of Elizabeth, and again when Jesus (pbuh) was being baptised, etc. Hence this prophecy refers to none other than Prophet
Muhammad (pbuh).


4.
Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 12-14:

"I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth is
come, he will guide you unto all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me".

The Sprit of Truth, spoken about in this prophecy referes to none other than Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)
NOTE: All quotations of the Bible are taken from the King James Version.


Peace

"And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcass." Deuteronomy 14:8


does pork not come from swine?

Sermon on the Mount; "Think not that I am come to destroy the Law, or the Prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill."


Can't be Judeo/christian only as pleases you and solely christian as pleases you!

cheers

format_quote Originally Posted by Hamayun

I don't think you understood my post. I said you seem to have a habit of ignoring evidences in your own Bible.

The way I see it is more that certain persons who follow a religion that says the Bible cannot be trusted, curiously still desire to turn to it to substantiate the claims they make for one they consider a prophet. But this strong desire also causes them to read the Bible looking for this so strongly that they grasp at straws interpreting erroneously things that speak of other persons as if they spoke of their own prophet.

Here is an Example:

PROPHET MUHAMMAD (pbuh) IN THE BIBLE
by Dr. Zakir Naik


Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in the Old Testament:

The Qur’an mentions in Surah Al-Araf chapter 7 verse 157:

"Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures) in the law and the Gospel".


1.
MUHAMMAD (PBUH) PROPHESISED IN THE BOOK OF DEUTERONOMY:

Almighty God speaks to Moses in Book of Deuteronomy chapter 18 verse 18:

"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and I will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."

The Christians say that this prophecy refers to Jesus (pbuh) because Jesus (pbuh) was like Moses (pbuh). Moses (pbuh) was a Jew, as well as Jesus (pbuh) was a Jew. Moses (pbuh) was a Prophet and Jesus (pbuh) was also a Prophet.

Actually, I say this refers to Joshua. That to be from among the brethern could refer to Muhammad because both are children of Abraham does not fit the context of the Exodus, which was Moses leading the children of Israel out of Egypt. To go beyond children of Israel to include Arabs there is no reason to eliminate any person on the earth for ultimately all people in the world are related. No this prophet must be from one of the members of the 12 tribes of Israel. Muhammad fails on that test alone.

2.
It is Mentioned in the book of Deuteronomy chapter 18:19

"And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not harken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him."

I don't see that you said anything of significance in this point. This doesn't point to Muhammad or any particular person. It just talks about what God will do.


3.
Muhammad (pbuh) is prophesised in the book of Isaiah:

It is mentioned in the book of Isaiah chapter 29 verse 12:

"And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned."

When Archangel Gabrail commanded Muhammad (pbuh) by saying Iqra - "Read", he replied, "I am not learned".

The list is in the millions, probably billions, of people who have been handed books to read and said that they could not because they didn't know how to reead. Isaish does not tell us that this person is any special person, just that on this day, which is a "day of the Lord" (in other words a day of judgement) that this will happen. Well, Muhammad didn't receive the Qur'an in a single day, but over an extended period of time. That Muhammad is unlearned is not sufficient to make him the subject of this passage.



4.
prophet Muhammad (pbuh) mentioned by name in the old testament:

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is mentioned by name in the Song of Solomon chapter 5 verse 16:

"Hikko Mamittakim we kullo Muhammadim Zehdoodeh wa Zehraee Bayna Jerusalem."

"His mouth is most sweet: yea, he is altogether lovely. This is my beloved, and this is my friend, O daughters of Jerusalem."

In the Hebrew language im is added for respect. Similarely im is added after the name of Prophet Muhammad
(pbuh) to make it Muhammadim. In English translation they have even translated the name of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as "altogether lovely", but in the Old Testament in Hebrew, the name of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is yet present.

Your suggestion that the Hebrew word used in this passage should be translated as Muhammad is a very poor translation. The first to ever suggest it was a Muslim, and I suspect they remain the only one's. Why did no Arab translation prior to Muhammad translate it in this fashion?


Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in the New Testament:

1.
John chapter 14 verse 16:
"And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever."

2.
Gospel of John chapter 15 verse 26:

"But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which
proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me."

3.
Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 7:

"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not
come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you".

"Ahmed" or "Muhammad" meaning "the one who praises" or "the praised one" is almost the translation of the
Greek word Periclytos. In the Gospel of John 14:16, 15:26, and 16:7. The word 'Comforter' is used in the English translation for the Greek word Paracletos which means advocate or a kind friend rather than a comforter.
Paracletos is the warped reading for Periclytos. Jesus (pbuh) actually prophesised Ahmed by name. Even the
Greek word Paraclete refers to the Prophet (pbuh) who is a mercy for all creatures.

Again, to translate "pericletos" as "Muhammad" or "Ahmed" is a unique view of Muslims alone, and not to be found among Arabic speakers prior to 700 AD. Further, "pericletos" most certainly does NOT translate as "the one who praises" or "the praised one", so if "Muhammad" does mean that, then "Muhammad" would be a mistranslation of "pericletos".

But even more importantly, I mentioned in the posts above all of the expectations that would be true of the pericletos, Muhammad falls short of completely fulfilling these, therefore even if you reject the Christian understanding of it as the Holy Spirit, it still cannot be Muhammad.


4.
Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 12-14:

"I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth is
come, he will guide you unto all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me".

The Sprit of Truth, spoken about in this prophecy referes to none other than Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

Really? Does Muhammad glorify Christ? I thought that Muhammad only glorified Allah, or are you suggesting that Christ and Allah are one and the same? That doesn't sound like the Muhammad I know.

I am also curious as to why you stopped quoting mid-verse and didn't complete the rest of what Jesus had to say: "14He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

15All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you."

Does Muhammad receive from Jesus and show it to Jesus' disciples? I thought it was Gabriel that spoke to Muhammad? Or what is it that Muhammad is receiving from Jesus? In fact, Muhammad received nothing from Jesus, and Muhammad showed nothing to Jesus' disciples because he never met either. But the Spirit was received by the disciples when after his resurrection Jesus met with his disciples, "Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost" (John 20:21-22).



NOTE: All quotations of the Bible are taken from the King James Version.

Trying to make Muhammad fit these passages is like trying to make a square peg fit in a round hole. Muslims can insist that they can make fit, but anyone who just looks at the text itself can see that he just doesn't belong.

format_quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker

And when this issue was brought up before the Apostles, they had a council to decide this very point. And after hearing all sides the following was the understaning of these very Jewish men:

these apostles were chosen by your God to abrogate his very commencements? I don't understand Why did your God change his mind, why couldn't he take care of it while he was with them instead of relegating such a task after his death, leaving room for so much confusion?

cheers