Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) Prophecised in other Scriptures.

format_quote Originally Posted by Al Habeshi

Like some preachers/pastors who end up humiliated because they visited prostitutes?

Don't get me wrong I am not saying it is only in Christianity, but this claim of having God's spirit and so on, and yet still having members commiting adultery is amazing.

Well, I said nothing amiss. Firstly, not everyone who stands in the pulpit is a Christian, no, not by a longshot. Not everyone who graduates from a theological school is even a Christian. Quite simply, just because someone goes to church on Sunday, was baptized, and calls themselves a Christian, that doesn't make them so.

Now, that's not to say that you as a genuine Christian can't just wake up one day and say, 'I'm turning back to a life of sin,' because you can. The thing is that you as a Christian don't have to do the things that you were bound with before you accepted Christ anymore. That's the whole point of Christianity. By accepting Christ you can receive a new start, a life divorced by those things and lifestyles that you were bound with.

format_quote Originally Posted by north_malaysian

I am further confused with your explanation....what are the differences between "spirit" and "soul"

Well, I'm a baby in Christ myself. I know that the soul is the mind, will, and emotions. The spirit then I guess is what God made for us to have fellowship with him. I know Jesus said we must worship God in spririt and in truth. Maybe someone else can explain it better than I can. But the spirit is in the body so God does in dwell within human bodies.

format_quote Originally Posted by north_malaysian

Yes... not only people but God too...



So, in your opinion does this concept exist in Islam too?

I can't say. I know there are Muslims who feel God's presence, I think that is why Muslims talk about this peace they get from living a life of Islam, but I don't think Muslims mean that in quite the same way that Christians talk about the Holy Spirit being in their lives.

format_quote Originally Posted by Hamayun

So you admit that he was "made"? By Whom?

If he was "made" then you have your answer my brother

Whoever "made" him is God and worthy of thanks and worship by Christians and Muslims alike.

Peace

Yes, the fleshly body that Christ inhabited was indeed made by God. Not by a biologically natural birth however. There is 100% divinity and 100% humanity in one body. So while what you say is accurate about the origins of Christ's body, the origin of Christ is something altogether different.

format_quote Originally Posted by Hamayun

So you admit that he was "made"? By Whom?

If he was "made" then you have your answer my brother

Whoever "made" him is God and worthy of thanks and worship by Christians and Muslims alike.

Peace

Jesus had a body. It was indeed a part of creation. That is what we mean by the incarnation. God put on flesh; and that flesh was made. By whom? By God of course. But it is also important to understand that that the Son was not limited by that physical body; Christ was pre-existant. He was not made by God, for God is not made, God simply is. All of that is true of the Son just as much as it is of the Father. And since "by him [Christ] all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together" (Colossian 1:16-17); and since "through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made" (John 1:3); it seems that you are directing me to recognize him as being "worthy of thanks and worship by Christians and Muslims alike." This I do. I invite you to join me.

format_quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker

Jesus had a body. It was indeed a part of creation. That is what we mean by the incarnation. God put on flesh; and that flesh was made. By whom? By God of course. But it is also important to understand that Christ was pre-existant. He was not made by God, for God is not made, God simply is. All of that is true of the Son just as much as it is of the Father.

While God was here on earth in a cradle, learning how to walk and talk who was in control of the universe?

Are there other Gods who took over his duties while he was here?



Also brother although we have our differences we are worshipping the same God. Different journeys to the same destination. One of the paths is probably better than the other but the destination is the same.

God knows our intentions and may he guide us both and keep us away from evil. Peace to you

format_quote Originally Posted by Hamayun

While God was here on earth in a cradle, learning how to walk and talk who was in control of the universe?

Are there other Gods who took over his duties while he was here?

Why do you limit God to being in just one place in space and time? As a good Muslim, I'm sure that you believe God is infinite. So, there is no problem with God being incarnate and in heaven and everywhere else as well.

format_quote Originally Posted by MustafaMc

The verse that you quoted actually referred to struggles that Paul was encountering during his life as further illustrated by his statement in Gal 2:11 But when Cephas (Peter) came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. There indeed was a struggle between Paul and the Disciples primarily regarding the doctrine of works vs. faith. For that matter, the greater struggle may have actually been regarding the Divinity of Jesus, but that is not readily apparent in the NT.

Surprisingly, your proposition does not offend me though it may others. At the very least you had the courage to state what I am certain every Christian on the face of the planet earth believes about Prophet Muhammad (saaws) and Islam. However, you must also understand that I believe that same way towards your prophet, Paul, Gal 2:8 For He who effectually worked for Peter in his apostleship to the circumcised effectually worked for me also to the Gentiles. and Christianity.... and likewise my contention from the position of a former Christian and present Muslim is that you are the one with a false religion as you your self acknowledged.

So if you believe that Jesus (as) is at the same time the Son of God yet fully God, then you disbelieve in the Oneness of Allah. Qur'an 5:72 Certainly they have disbelieved who say: "Allah is Christ the son of Mary." While Christ himself said: "O children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Whoever joins partners with Allah, Allah will deny him the paradise, and the hellfire will be his home. There will be no helper for the wrongdoers. You yourself have spoken a monstrously, blasphemous statement at which the very Heavens might crack, the earth might cleave asunder and the mountains might crumble to pieces.

You are exactly correct that Islam and Christianity are diametrically opposed despite having superficial similarities. Since they both can't be Divinely inspired, you are correct in that one must be a misguidance from Satan. Let us reflect for a moment:

The focus point of worship in all of Christianity is the human being, Jesus (as), son of Mary as being God who made the ultimate sacrifice for the redemption of mankind. Yet though some Christians lead very upright and moral lives, what is the extent of their worship? Remember theirs is a religion of faith not works lest any man boast.

The focus point of worship in Islam is the One God, Allah, without father, mother, son or daughter and to whom none is comparable. The Muslim worship of their Creator includes prescribed ritual prayer, fasting, charity tax and pilgrimage as prescribed by Allah and demonstrated by Prophet Muhammad (saaws). We forbid the wrong (murder, stealing, adultery, gambling, intoxicants, backbiting, slander, etc) and we promote the good (worship of Allah, charity, kind treatment of parents, modesty, honesty, etc).

Verily by their fruits you will know them. Allah will judge between us on that fateful Day and the ones who had True faith and who worshiped Him as we were created to do will be separated from those who did not.

Masha'Allah.. so well said, there isn't more to add to this..

format_quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker

Why do you limit God to being in just one place in space and time? As a good Muslim, I'm sure that you believe God is infinite. So, there is no problem with God being incarnate and in heaven and everywhere else as well.

being every where is one thing.. being three distinct characters of very different nature is another, considering his nature is at odds with itself.. for instance he prays to himself the night before he forsakes himself for some anti-climactic purpose!

cheers

format_quote Originally Posted by Hamayun

So if all three are actually one substance then.....

Why split them into three and pray to all three of them?


Why not just pray to that one essence???


Why???



Peace

In essence that is what Christians do. However, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, which exist in triunity, are responsible for different aspects of a Christians spiritual journey. The Father is the Almighty God, the Son is Jesus Christ who through God's mercy brought us atonement, and the Holy Spirit is the indwelling Spirit, the Comforter, who leads us to righteousness. The reason Christians recognize this triune nature is because that triune nature is pointed out to us.

format_quote Originally Posted by ASeeker

Can we take it that the Jews and Christians agree that their respective scriptures make no reference to the prophet of Islam?

indeed by the same token, that the Jews make no reference to the prophet/God of Christianity!

cheers

format_quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker

See, we would not say that there are three different natures. There are three distinct persons, but there is just one essence.

Now if you had been talking about Jesus alone, then I would have ceded you the point that Jesus himself had two different natures, a human nature and a divine nature. But God has only one nature, one essence, one substance, one being no matter which of the three distinct personas you speak of the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit.

So you have four Gods now? two in Jesus, plus a father and a silent holy spirit?

format_quote Originally Posted by ASeeker

Can we take it that the Jews and Christians agree that their respective scriptures make no reference to the prophet of Islam?

Peace be upon those who follow the guidance,

what a misguided statement! while the "Messiah" is prophesied in the Tanakh, "Christianity" is NOT! and while "Christianity" is not prophesied in the Tanakh, Islam IS!!!

here's part of an old post:

For sources we’ll use The Stone Edition Chumash The Torah, Haftaros and Five Megillos with A Commentary Anthologized From The RAbbinic Writings by Mesorah Publishing as well as the Artscroll Tanach Series Bereishsis/ Genesis A New Translation with a Commentary Anthologized From Talmudic, Midrashic and Rabbinic Sources Translation and commentary by Rabbi Meir Zlotowitz with Overviews by Rabbi Nosson Scherman and a Foreword by HaGoan HaRav Mordechai Gifter, published by Mesorah Publication Ltd, hereafter referred to as the Chumash or Bereishsis/ Genesis respectively.

From the Chumash we read 16:3, So Sarai, Abram’s wife, took Hagar the Egyptian, her maidservant – after 10 years of Abram’s dwelling in the Land of Canaan – and gave her to Abram her husband, to him as a wife. He consorted with Hagar and she conceived; and when she saw that she had conceived, her mistress was lowered in her esteem.

16 The Birth of Ishmael. Despite their spiritual riches and Godly assurances, Abraham and Sarah were still heartbroken at their barrenness, for without heirs they would not be able to continue the mission of Bringing God’s teaching to mankind. Recognizing that it was she who was infertile, Sarah suggested that Abraham marry her maidservant Hagar, and, if a son were born, Sarah would raise him, so that he would be considered her adopted child.

Hagar was a daughter of Pharaoh. After seeing the miracles that were brought on Sarah’s behalf when she was abducted and taken to his palace, he gave her to Hagar, saying, “Better that she be a servant in their house, than a princess in someone else’s.” So it was that Hagar, an Egyptian princess, became Abraham’s wife and bore him Ishmael.

In the notes to verse 4 – Her mistress was lowered. Hagar brazenly boasted to the ladies, “Since so many years have passed without Sarai having children, she cannot be as righteous as she seems. But I conceived immediately!” (Rashi). Now that Hagar had assured Abraham’s posterity, she no longer felt subservient to Sarah (Radak).

A few notes about Sarah and Hagar from verses 6 – 8:
Verse 6 “your maidservant is in your hand; do to her as you see fit.” To me she is a wife; and I have no right to treat her unkindly. But to you she is a servant; if she mistreats you, do what you feel is right. (Radak; Haamek Davar). Sarah’s intent was not malicious, but to force Hagar to cease from her insulting demeanor. But instead of acknowledging Sarah’s superior position, Hagar fled (Arbarbanel; Sforno).

Rabbi Aryeh Levin noted that it is congruous to believe that a woman as righteous as Sarah would persecute another human being out of personal pique. Rather, Sarah treated Hagar as she always had, but in the light of Hagar’s newly inflated self-image, she took it as persecution.

We’ll leave the issue of Hagar for the moment except to pause to list the prophecies about Ishmael AT THIS TIME:

V10 And an Angel of Hashem said to her, “I will greatly increase your offspring, and they will not be counted for abundance.”
V 11 And an Angel of Hashem said to her, “Behold, you will conceive, and give birth to a son; his name shall be Ishmael, for Hashem has heard your prayer. And he shall be a wild-ass of a man; his hand against everyone, and everyone’s hand against him; and over all his brothers shall he dwell.”
The prophecy in verse 10 sounds VERY familiar to ones about Abraham’s’ descendants, while verse 11 gives us our other prophecy. We will return to Hagar later, Insha’ Allah.


Let us return to matter relating to Israel’s uncle Ishmael. In chapter 17, Chumash, God is speaking to Abraham about their covenant and promising a son through Sarah, Abraham interrupts God:
v18 And Abraham said to God, “Oh that Ishmael might live before You!” God said, “Nonetheless, your wife Sarah will bear you a son and you shall call his name Isaac…v 20 But regarding Ishmael I have heard you; I have blessed him, will make him fruitful, and will increase him most exceedingly; he will beget twelve princes and I will make him into a great nation…”

Part of the notes for this verse read: “We see from the prophecy in this verse, that 2337 years elapsed before the Arabs, Ishmael’s descendants, became a great nation [with the rise of Islam in the 7th Century C.E.]…Throughout this period, Ishmael hoped anxiously, until the promise was fulfilled and they dominated the world. We the descendants of Isaac, for whom the fulfillment of the promises made to us is delayed due to our sins…should surely anticipate the fulfillment of God’s promises and not despair” (R’ Bachya citing R’ Chananel).

Bereishsis/ Genesis adds: R’ Bachya cites R’ Chananel’s comment on this verse: We see from this prophecy [in the year 2047 from Creation, when Abraham was ninety-nine], 2337 years elapsed before the Arabs, Ishmael’s descendants, became a great nation. [This would correspond to 624 C.E, two years after the H(ijra)!…] to be honest, I totally missed the hijra comment the first time I read this because I wasn’t a Muslim and I didn’t know what they meant by hegira! But we do have one prophecy that at least according to the Jews, puts Islam as an Old Testament prophecy!


I got lazy and copied this from the Jewish Publication Society, the first half of Genesis chapter 25:

1 And Abraham took another wife, and her name was Keturah.

2 And she bore him Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah

3 And Jokshan begot Sheba, and Dedan. And the sons of Dedan were Asshurim, and Letushim, and Leummim.

4 And the sons of Midian: Ephah, and Epher, and Hanoch, and Abida, and Eldaah. All these were the children of Keturah.

5 And Abraham gave all that he had unto Isaac.

6 But unto the sons of the concubines, that Abraham had, Abraham gave gifts; and he sent them away from Isaac his son, while he yet lived, eastward, unto the east country.

7 And these are the days of the years of Abraham's life which he lived, a hundred threescore and fifteen years

8 And Abraham expired, and died in a good old age, an old man, and full of years; and was gathered to his people.

9 And Isaac and Ishmael his sons buried him in the cave of Machpelah, in the field of Ephron the son of Zohar the Hittite, which is before Mamre;

10 the field which Abraham purchased of the children of Heth; there was Abraham buried, and Sarah his wife.

11 And it came to pass after the death of Abraham, that God blessed Isaac his son; and Isaac dwelt by Beer-lahai-roi.

12 Now these are the generations of Ishmael, Abraham's son, whom Hagar the Egyptian, Sarah's handmaid, bore unto Abraham.

13 And these are the names of the sons of Ishmael, by their names, according to their generations: the first-born of Ishmael, Nebaioth; and Kedar, and Adbeel, and Mibsam,

14 and Mishma, and Dumah, and Massa;

15 Hadad, and Tema, Jetur, Naphish, and Kedem;

16 these are the sons of Ishmael, and these are their names, by their villages, and by their encampments; twelve princes according to their nations

17 And these are the years of the life of Ishmael, a hundred and thirty and seven years; and he expired and died; and was gathered unto his people.

18 And they dwelt from Havilah unto Shur that is before Egypt, as thou goest toward Asshur: over against all his brethren he did settle.

Let’s begin with the part dealing with Ishmael first. We see in verse 9 that both Isaac and Ishmael buried their Abraham, what does this tell us? Well, for one, we can confirm that there was NEVER a time during Abraham’s life when Isaac was Abraham’s firstborn, NOR was there EVER a time during Abraham’s life when Isaac was to Abraham “your son, your only son”. Those terms could ONLY be used to describe Ishmael, Abraham’s firstborn son. But we are not here to speculate who changed THAT story!

In Bereishsis/ Genesis, the notes for verse 17. Ishmael’s age is given because it assists in calculations with respect to [dating the various events which occurred during the life of] Jacob (Rashi [Yevamos 64a]) [and this is footnoted, which reads in part: 1 Rashi goes on to explain that we calculate from Ishmael’s age at his death that Jacob attended the Academy of Eber for fourteen years from the time he left his fathers’ house to the time he arrived at Laban’s house (as explained in Megillah 17a); to which we have the sub footnote: [Briefly, according to the data cited in Megillah 17a, when Jacob stood before Pharaoh he should have been 116 years old, yet Jacob himself gave his age as 130(Gen. 47:9). The discrepancy is explained by the fact that he spent fourteen years in the Academy of Eber after leaving his fathers’ house.]
According to Ramban [to this verse but cited in v12] Ishmael’s age is noted here because he repented and the age of the righteous is generally stated. Rashbam holds that it is recorded as a mark of honor for Abraham. Since the torah had mentioned Abraham’s age at Ishmael’s birth, and Ishmael’s age when he underwent circumcision. It now concludes by mentioning his lifespan. Further on we read Rashi comments that…is only mentioned in the case of righteous people [such as Ishmael, since he repented…]…
According to R’ Bachya it [the phrase “and was gathered unto his people”] is based the use in our verse of both expired and died – which refer to the death only of the righteous – and the Sages said that Ishmael repented of his evil ways.

So whatever ill will the Jews may harbor against Ishmael [that they say he had “evil” ways], he is cleared of any error and claimed by JEWISH Sages to be “of the righteous!” note the similarity in regards to Abraham in verse 8 And Abraham expired, and died in a good old age, an old man, and full of years; and was gathered to his people. Compared to of Ishmael in verse 17 And these are the years of the life of Ishmael, a hundred and thirty and seven years; and he expired and died; and was gathered unto his people.

Also, consider that we saw in the notes to Genesis 16 “that Abraham and Sarah were still heartbroken at their barrenness, for without heirs they would not be able to continue the mission of Bringing God’s teaching to mankind. Recognizing that it was she who was infertile, Sarah suggested that Abraham marry her maidservant Hagar, and, if a son were born, Sarah would raise him, so that he would be considered her adopted child.” This tells us that it was the intent of Abraham and Sarah to raise Ishmael “so that he would be considered her adopted child!” it stands within reason but our case doesn’t rely solely on it, that in their job of “parenting” Ishmael [up until the birth of Isaac] that they would have sent him to the “Academy of Eber in Jerusalem” for proper training in the “mission of Bringing God’s teaching to mankind.” So from Ishmael's beginning and again at the end of his life we can put him in the category of the “sons” of Eber, and thus an Hebrew.


We will take another look at Hagar, just in case any see her as a reason to disqualify Ishmael as one of the “righteous.” Let’s look again at 25:1, And Abraham took another wife, and her name was Keturah.
The notes say that there is a Hebrew word in the phrase which means “again” which would literally mean: And Abraham again took a wife, which is interpreted by the Sages to intimate the Abraham remarried to before: Hagar.

Keturah is Hagar, who received this name because her deeds were as beautiful as incense [ketores]; also because she remained chaste…from the time she had separated from Abraham (Midrash; Rashi).
In 21:14 Rashi comments that Hagar reverted to the idolatry of her father’s house. How then does he now call her action “beautiful as incense?” – Rather, when she was expelled from Abraham’s household she felt forsaken even by his God and she intended to revert to her idolatrous ways. But when the miracle occurred at the well, she repented (Gur Aryeh).

The Zohar similarly comments that although she had relapsed into her ancestral idolatry, she later repented and changed her name, after which Abraham sent for and married her. From this we see that a change of name males atonement for guilt, for she made this change of name symbolic of her change of behavior.
[Immediately following this there is a note discussing some Hebrew phraseology which…denotes that Keturah was righteous and fit for Abraham.]

Although Hagar/Keturah was a first generation Egyptian and hence forbidden in marriage [see Deut.32: 9], nevertheless, since his first marriage to her was with God’s sanction, she remained permissible to him for remarriage as well. Furthermore, the Midrash [Bereishis Rabbah 60:4] specifically states that Abraham married Keturah/Hagar by Divine Command (Tur).
Targum Yonasan renders the verse: and Abraham took a wife, and her name was Keturah; she is Hagar who had been bound to him…from the beginning.

so, as far as some REALLY CONSERVATIVE JEWS are concerned, the coming of Islam IS in the Torah! thus, naturally Islam would HAVE to have a Prophet! and thus, while some "Christians" find it ludicrous that the Rasulullah /Prophet of Islam[pbuh] might be mentioned in the Tanakh, i believe that may may well be mistaken!

now, shall we ask these same Jews if they believe in a "trinity?" i bet not...

format_quote Originally Posted by Hamayun

Also brother although we have our differences we are worshipping the same God. Different journeys to the same destination. One of the paths is probably better than the other but the destination is the same.

I am sorry, but I have to disagree with you. Of course there is only One God, but Christians worship the human being, Jesus (as), as God, while Muslims absolutely refuse to worship Jesus (as) as God or the Son of God. We Muslims worship the One God without father, mother, daughter or son and without equal.

While our respective INTENDED destinations are the same, I contend that, while our ultimate destination is at the Mercy of Allah, our respective religions teach that theirs is the only means for salvation. In Christianity, the Bible teaches that "no one comes to the Father except through the Son", while in Islam the Qur'an 3:85 teaches that "If anyone is looking for a religion other than Islam, then let it be known that it will not be accepted from him; and in the Hereafter he will be among the losers."

If you want to know what a Christian minister said about his comparison of Islam and Christianity, the following link under the "Radio" tab should be quite revealing.
http://davidjeremiah.org/