Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) Prophecised in other Scriptures.

to the member who posted about mohammad predicted in Hindu scriptures.. PLEASE tell me you're joking. i'm assuming you have been finding your articles from dr. zakir naik. dr. zakir naik has been debunked in his artciles about Hinduism hundreds of times. he literally twisted around Hindu texts in front of thousands of people! he has been debunked, and if you simply good "Kalki avatar mohammad" you will see many sites that debunk the claim that Mohammad is the fufillment of Kalki Avatar. Plus, since the punishment for idoltry is death according to the qu'ran, it would be rather crazy to even accept a POSSIBILITY that kalki avatar is mohammd!!

The Vishnu Purana (4.24) says:

"When the practices taught by the Vedas and the institutes of law shall nearly have ceased, and the close of the Kali age shall be nigh, a portion of that divine being who exists of his own spiritual nature in the character of Brahma, and who is the beginning and the end, and who comprehends all things, shall descend upon the earth. He will be born as Kalki in the family of an eminent brahmin of Sambhala village, endowed with the eight superhuman faculties. By his irresistible might he will destroy all the barbarians and thieves, and all whose minds are devoted to iniquity. He will then reestablish righteousness upon earth; and the minds of those who live at the end of the Kali age shall be awakened, and shall be as pellucid as crystal. The men who are thus changed by virtue of that peculiar time shall be as the seeds of human beings, and shall give birth to a race who shall follow the laws of the Krita age, the Age of Purity. As it is said, "When the sun and moon, and the luner asterism Tishya, and the planet Jupiter, are in one mansion, the Krita age shall return."

There are several men who claim to be the Kalki: *, *

The article begins with a logical fallacy of the Appeal to Authority:

One hindu research professor, in his stunning book, claims that description of avatar found in the holy books of hindu religion is in fact that of the prophet muhammad(s.a.w). A little while ago, in India a fact revealing book has been published, which has been the topic of discussions and gossip, allover the country. Amazingly the author of this book is a fair-minded famous professor, who happens to be a Hindu. His name is Pundit Vedaprakash Upadhai and the name of his fact revealing book is "kalki avtar". The author is a hindu Brahmin by caste of Bengali origin. He is a research scholar, a seeker of the truth and a well known pundit in allahabad university. After years of research work, he published this book and other eight pundits have endorsed and certified his points of argument as authentic.

According to Hindu belief and their holy books, the description of the guide and the leader, named kalki avatar, fits that of prophet Muhammad(so.a.w)of Arabia. So the Hindus of the whole world should look into this new information not wait any longer for the arrival of kalki avatar (the spirit) as he already arrived 1400 years ago. The author produces following sound evidences from the vedas and other holy books of Hindu religion in support of his claim:-

Now we proceed to examine the proof:

1. In purana (a holy book of Hindus) it is stated that kalki avatar would be the last messenger of god in this world for the guidance of the whole world and all human beings. (according to Islam, prophet Muhammad (s.a.w) is also considered the last messenger of god in this world who was sent to guide all human beings).

The Vishnu Purana does not say that the Kalki Avatar will be the last messenger. This Purana does say that the Kalki Avatar:

1. Exists of his own spiritual nature in the character of Brahma
2. Is the beginning and the end
3. Comprehends all things
4. Will be born as Kalki in the family of an eminent Brahmin of Sambhala village
5. Will be endowed with the eight superhuman faculties

None of these descriptions apply to Muhammad.

2. According to a Hindu religion prediction, the birth of kalki avatar,would take place in an isle which again according to Hindu religion is Arab region.

This is an error in geographical terminology. An isle is an island, Arabia is a peninsula.

3. In books of Hindus, the names of the father and the mother of kalki avatar are given as vishnubhagat and sumaani respectively. if we examine the meanings of these names we shall come to a very interesting conclusion: take vishnubhagat vishnu (meaning god) + bhagat(meaning slave)= slave of god Allah (god) + abd (slave in Arabic) = slave of god (Abdullah in Arabic name of Mohammed's father) sumaani = peace or calmness aamenah(Arabic) =peace or calmness (name of mother of prophet Muhammad (s.a.w)

This is an error in philology. In other words, if the names are literal, then they do not match. A servant of Vishnu would not be equivalent to a servant of Allah, unless one admits that Vishnu is Allah.

4. In religious books of Hindus, it is mentioned that the staple food of kalki avatar would be dates and olives and he would be the most honest and truthful person in the region. Without any doubt the prophet Muhammad (s.a.w) is acclaimed to possess these qualities.

The Hadith are a collection of oral traditions which record the most minor details of Muhammad's life and habits. He did enjoy dates, however, there is no mention of him eating olives, although there are some references to olive oil.

5. It is stated in Vedas (holy book of Hindu religion) that the birth of kalki avatar would take place in an honorable clan. This perfectly fits the quraysh where the prophet Muhammad (s.a.w) belonged to. (very honorable clan for more details u can read the history of prophet(s.a.w) to see the qualities that they possessed which made them one of the strongest clans).

No, the Vishnu Purana clearly says "He will be born as Kalki in the family of an eminent brahmin of Sambhala village". Muhammad was not born in Sambhala village, he was born in Arabia, and no one has ever claimed that Muhammad came from a Brahmin family. Additionally, is there any objective reason to believe the Quaraysh to be more honorable than other clans?

6. God would teach kalki avatar through his messenger (angel) in a cave. Allah taught prophet Muhammad (s.a.w), through is messenger angel jibraeel(gabreal) in a cave known as gaar-e-hiraa(a cave in mount hiraa).

The Purana says no such thing. Hindus believe that the Kalki Avatar is a god [Vishnu] who has been reincarnated 10 times and not a mere messenger. Muhammad claimed to be a messenger and would have been grossly offended by the suggestion that he was the incarnation of a Pagan god. There is a huge difference between the concept of Propethood in Islam and the concept of the Avatar in Hinduism and one cannot impose an Islamic meaning on a Hindu title.

7. God would avail kalki avatar with a very speedy horse to ride and travel the whole world and the seven skies. indication of buraaque(horse) and me'raaj (the night when prophet traveled the seven skies).

Muhammad never traveled the whole world, he was reported to have traveled to the "farthest Masjid", although, according to Ibn Ishaq's Sirat Rasulullah, Muhammad's wife Aishah claimed that his body never left the bed that night. Incidentally, this story [the Miraj] is very similar to the story of Zoroaster's ascent into the seven heavens on a mythical beast called a "Gryphon".

8. God would also avail kalki avatar with divine help. This was particularly proved in the battle of uhud.

The Kalki Avatar has, according to the Purana, "irresistible might" and is divine ["character of Brahma"]. Therefore, he does not need divine help, he provides divine help.

9. Another dazzling account given about kalki avatar was that he would be born on the 12th of a month. whereas the prophet Muhammad (s.a.w) was born on the 12th of the rabiul awwal (Islamic calendar).

This assumes that Hindus used the same calendar as Muslims. There is also disagreement among Muslims scholars concerning exactly when Muhammad was born. In fact, some Islamic sources claim that Muhammad's birthday (Mawlid) was first celebrated 3 centuries after the death of Muhammad.

10. Kalki avatar would be an excellent horse rider and a swordsman. The author here draws the attention of Hindus that the real days of horses and swords have gone and the present time is of guns and missiles. so it would be foolish on the part of those who still expect kalki avatar, who should be an excellent rider and swordsman to come. in fact, the divine book, holy qur'aan contains qualities and signs attributed to kalki avatar reflecting on the prophet Muhammad (s.a.w).

Nearly every hero in the ancient world used swords and horses, therefore, this criteria doesn't point out anyone in particular. However, some Hindus believe that the Kalki Avatar will be a machine-man, who will come to earth on a white horse with a blazing sword in his hands. This future incarnation of Vishnu will appear at the end of Kali Yuga (evil eon) and would solve the problem of Adharma (unrighteousness). He will punish all evil people in this world, destroy the world, and recreate a golden age of peace and harmony. Clearly, Muhammad did none of these things.

If the author of this book were a Muslim, he could have been arrested or he could have been murdered and all the copies of this book would have been confiscated. even a ban would have been extended on its further publications. a riot and violence would have broken out against innocent Muslims and their blood would have been shed. (these are just some of the things that could have happened as Muslims would be accused of false propaganda etc). however, these facts are verified and supported by the eight eminent pundits. what the author and the eight other eminent pundits say is that the Hindus who are still anxiously awaiting the arrival of kalki avatar are simply subjecting themselves to a never ending pain. because such a great messenger has come and departed from this world fourteen centuries ago.

This type of censorship and blatant violation of human rights would be far more common in Pakistan than in democratic and secular India.

Editor Note :- Salaamun Alkum Article does not said that Hindu religion is authentic religion . It's said that even Hindus they Know about the last Prophet and did not excepted it is their fault Quran said . They know this Prophet like they know their sons. All Prophet predicted for the last prophet even the new and old Testament of Bible In present condition you can find about the last Prophet of Islam. So in the Day of Judgment they can't deny the Fact that they don't know who was the last Prophet.

If the author does not believe that Hinduism is an "authentic" religion, why does he appeal to Hindu scriptures? It is intellectually dangerous for Muslims to draw conclusions concerning what they believe to be the truth from sources they consider to be of questionable veracity. An Avatar is a reincarnation of a god - an idea that Muhammad would have immediately condemned as shirk, the most serious of all sins. In addition to the many factual flaws in this argument, there is another very serious problem.

The largest issue here is the moral and ethical problems associated with this type of polemic. This argument is an "outwitting" which essentially says that "the ways justify the means". In other words, Hindus should believe something, ... anything about Muhammad. Why is this a problem?

Suppose that a Hindu accepts the idea that Muhammad was the Kalki Avatar, or 10th reincarnation of the Hindu god Vishnu, would he or she be a Muslim? Or, taking this scenario a little further, suppose a large number of Hindus adopted this idea, how would they be viewed by the Ummah (Muslim Community)? Would these people be considered Muslim or would they be another heterodox sect like the Nation of Islam, Ahmadis, Qadianis, or Bahá'ís - and would they be mistreated, persecuted, and killed as some of these groups were/are for their beliefs?

to you guys what makes a prophecy? is it written words about someone? or what?

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Originally Posted by thirdwatch512

jesus was the last prophet according to christianity, until he returns. the Bible even says so.. Jesus said "this is the end" before he was crucified.

also, for anyone to be a prophet, they must have been a jew.. so there's no way mohammad could have been.

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That's right all the prophets from when God made the covenant with the Jews (Isaac) were Jews.

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Genesis 17
18 And Abraham said to God, "If only Ishmael might live under your blessing!"

19 Then God said, "Yes, but your wife Sarah will bear you a son, and you will call him Isaac. [d] I will establish my covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him. 20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation. 21 But my covenant I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah will bear to you by this time next year." 22 When he had finished speaking with Abraham, God went up from him.

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What is the point if God sends prophets to other nations when God only made a covenant (promise) with the Nation of Israel which is forever ? :?

Also Moses was a Jew he was an Egyptian Jew.

Also I would like to quote the following it is relavant.

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Genesis 12
The Call of Abram
1 The LORD had said to Abram, "Leave your country, your people and your father's household and go to the land I will show you.

2 "I will make you into a great nation
and I will bless you;
I will make your name great,
and you will be a blessing.

3 I will bless those who bless you,
and whoever curses you I will curse;
and all peoples on earth
will be blessed through you."

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Who is cursing the nation of Israel at the moment ? The Arabs (mostly muslims).

In fact the punishment for attacking Israel is quite severe in the Bible, it says that anybody who attacks Israel in the last days. Them and there children to 7 generations will not be able to go to heaven. It is almost like fighting against God himself according to the Bible. Since the promised land (Israel) is a metaphor for heaven.
They will try to totally destroy the Jews and they nearly will but God himself will stop the war and save Israel and totally destroy the attackers.

YEh

Oh, so now you're saying that god's racist? I can't believe you guys. Abraham wasn't a jew, nor was he a christian - yet he submitted to God and he wasn't of the polytheists.

Abraham was not a Jew nor yet a Christian; but he was true in Faith, and bowed his will to Allah's (Which is Islam), and he joined not gods with Allah.

Without doubt, among men, the nearest of kin to Abraham, are those who follow him, as are also this Prophet and those who believe: And Allah is the Protector of those who have faith.

[Qur'an 3: 67-8]

Islaam (which means submission to God) was the religion of ALL the Prophets of God, they all called their people to God's worship and that the people shouldn't associate partners with God in that worship.

Those who love the life of this world more than the Hereafter, who hinder (men) from the Path of Allah and seek therein something crooked: they are astray by a long distance.

We sent not a messenger except (to teach) in the language of his (own) people, in order to make (things) clear to them. Now Allah leaves straying those whom He pleases and guides whom He pleases: and He is Exalted in power, full of Wisdom.

[Qur'an Abraham 14: 3-4]

Allaah guides those who are sincere, and those who submit themselves to Him. It doesn't matter what race you belong to - God will convey the message through His Prophets to mankind.


Do you know who Israeel [Ya'qub/Jacob] was? He was the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham. Guess what religion Israeel followed? He followed the religion of Abraham - And Abraham was a Muslim and worshipped God Alone, he wasn't of the polytheists. So compare yourself to Abraham, not anyone else, because if the jews aren't following the way of Abraham, and the christians aren't following the way of Abraham - then they are misguided since Abraham was a close friend and obedient to Allaah.

Without doubt, among men, the nearest of kin to Abraham, are those who follow him, as are also this Prophet and those who believe: And Allah is the Protector of those who have faith.




Regards.

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Do you know who Israeel [Ya'qub/Jacob] was? He was the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham. Guess what religion Israeel followed? He followed the religion of Abraham - And Abraham was a Muslim and worshipped God Alone, he wasn't of the polytheists. So compare yourself to Abraham, not anyone else, because if the jews aren't following the way of Abraham, and the christians aren't following the way of Abraham - then they are misguided since Abraham was a close friend and obedient to Allaah.

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You have just expressed your own opinion, and don't expect that christians nor jews on this forum will believe what you say. For us it is clearly from beggining to end that all God's prophets were jews. They celebrated jewish holy days. Of course i know that for islam it is most important to prove that all prophets were muslims and Muhammed was the last one predicted in the Bible. And i am very happy seeing christians and jews here together resisting
the claim that all prophets were muslims. You know, i study history and if i said to my academic professor that Abraham or Moses were a muslims, my profesor would give me F (worse) mark. And i think that also Chinese, and Hindu teach in schools that all prophets were Israelis.

Well, you have your own version of history, and we will stay with our. :p

A person can be Jewish by race, however to be a Muslim is to perform a verb - Islaam [i.e. submission.] All the Prophets worshipped the One and Only God and called their people to that, in the way that God wanted to be worshipped - so they were Muslims.

Say (O Muhammad SAW) to the believers to forgive those who (harm them and) hope not for the Days of Allâh (i.e. His Recompense), that He may recompense people according to what they have earned (i.e. to punish these disbelievers, who harm the believers).

Whosoever does a good deed, it is for his ownself, and whosoever does evil, it is against (his ownself). Then to your Lord you will be made to return.


And indeed We gave the Children of Israel the Scripture, and the understanding of the Scripture and its laws, and the Prophethood; and provided them with good things, and preferred them above the 'Alamîn (mankind and jinns) (of their time, during that period),

And gave them clear proofs in matters [by revealing to them the Taurât (Torah)]. And they differed not until after the knowledge came to them, through envy among themselves. Verily, Your Lord will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection about that wherein they used to differ.


Then We have put you (O Muhammad SAW) on a plain way of (Our) commandment [like the one which We commanded Our Messengers before you (i.e. legal ways and laws of the Islâmic Monotheism)]. So follow you that (Islâmic Monotheism and its laws), and follow not the desires of those who know not.

Verily, they can avail you nothing against Allâh (if He wants to punish you). Verily, the Zâlimûn (polytheists, wrong-doers, etc.) are Auliyâ' (protectors, helpers, etc.) to one another, but Allâh is the Walî (Helper, Protector, etc.) of the Muttaqûn (pious - see V.2:2).

This (Qur'ân) is a clear insight and evidence for mankind, and a guidance and a mercy for people who have Faith with certainty


Or do those who earn evil deeds think that We shall hold them equal with those who believe (in the Oneness of Allâh Islâmic Monotheism) and do righteous good deeds, in their present life and after their death? Worst is the judgement that they make.

And Allâh has created the heavens and the earth with truth, in order that each person may be recompensed what he has earned, and they will not be wronged.


[Qur'an Al-Jathiya (the Crouching) 45: 14-22]

:sl:

Islam therefore lays down the foundation for the universality of a single prophet. As such the claim of the Quran -- that the Holy Prophet (sa) was raised not only for Arabia but for the whole of mankind -- is founded on a sound philosophy. We find mention in every religion of a utopian future or golden age when all mankind would be brought under the one flag. But there does not seem to be any foundation laid for the unification of man in his beliefs and dogmas. It was for the first time in the history of religion that Islam paved the way for a universal religion by the declaration that all the people of the world, at different times, were blessed with the advent of divine messengers.

According to the Holy Quran, the institution of prophethood is universal and timeless. There are two terms used to indicate the same office, each with slightly different connotations. The term An-Nabi has the connotation of prophecy. Those whom God chooses to represent Him are implanted with the knowledge of certain important events regarding the future. They are also told of things past, which were unknown to the people, and his knowledge of them stand as a sign of his being informed by an All-Knowing Being. Prophecy as such establishes the truth of the prophets, so that people may submit to them and accept their message.

The second term used in connection with prophets, is Al-Rasool or Messenger. This refers to such contents of the prophet's revelation as deal with important messages to be delivered to mankind on God's behalf. Those messages could be speaking of a new code of law, or they could simply be admonishing people for their past lapses in reference to previous revealed laws.

Both these functions unite in a single person, and as such all prophets can be termed as messengers, and all messengers as prophets.

According to Islam, all prophets are human beings and none bear superhuman characteristics. Wherever some miracles are attributed to prophets, which are understood to indicate their superhuman character, the categorical and clear statements of the Quran reject such a notion. Raising of the dead is one of such miracles attributed to certain prophets. Although similar descriptions are found in many divine scriptures or religious books, according to the Quran they are not meant to be taken literally, but have a metaphorical connotation. For instance, it is attributed to Jesus (as) that he raised the dead into a new life. But the Holy Quran speaks of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (sa) in the same terms, with the same words being applied to his miracle of spiritual revival. Similar is the case of creating birds out of clay and causing them to fly in the name of God. These birds are only human beings who are bestowed with the faculty of spiritual flight, as against the earthly people.

No prophet is granted an exceptionally long term of life which makes him distinctly different and above the brotherhood of prophets to which he belongs. Nor is any prophet mentioned as having risen bodily to remote recesses of the universe. Wherever there is such mention, it is spiritual ascent which is meant, not bodily ascent, which the Quran categorically declares is against the character of prophets. When the Holy Founder of Islam was required by the People of the Book to physically ascend to heaven and bring back a book, the answer which God taught him was simply this:



Say to them: 'My Lord is far above (such childish conduct). I am no more than a human being and a prophet.' Surah Bani-Israel (Ch. 17: V.94)

This answer rejects all claims about other prophets who are understood to have ascended physically to heaven. The argument implied in this answer is that no human being and no prophet can rise bodily to heaven, otherwise the Prophet Muhammad (sa) could also have repeated the same miracle. The emphasis on the human characteristics of prophets and their human limitations is one of the most beautiful features of fundamental Islamic teachings. Prophets rise above their fellow human beings not because they were gifted with superhuman qualities, but only because they gave a better account of the qualities that they had been gifted with. They remained human despite having ascended to great spiritual heights, and their conduct as such is inimitable by other human beings.

On the issue of continuity of prophecy, Islam categorically declares the Holy Prophet (sa) of Islam to be the last of the law- bearing prophets and the Quran to be the last Divine book of law, perfected and protected till the end of time. Obviously a book which is perfect and also protected from interpolation transcends alteration. No change is warranted on both counts. As long as a book is perfect and protected from human interpolation, no change is justified.

As far as prophecy other than law-bearing prophecy is concerned, the possibility of its continuity is clearly mentioned in the Quran. Again there are clear prophecies about such divine Founder of Islam and the Holy Book -- the Quran. The following verse of Surah Al-Nisa leaves no ambiguity about this:



And whoso obeys Allah and this Messenger of His shall be among those on whom Allah has bestowed His blessings, namely, the Prophets, the Truthful, the Martyrs, and the Righteous. Surah Al-Nisa (Ch. 4: V.70)

In short, Islam is declared in the Quran to be the last perfected religion for the benefit of mankind, after which no new teaching would be revealed to annul the teachings of Islam, nor would a new independent prophet be born outside the domain of Islam; any new prophet would be completely subordinate to the Holy Prophet Muhammadsa.

The prophets always came to deliver a message. That message was not confined to the areas of beliefs, but also covered the areasre of practices and implementation of the beliefs. The teachings are divided into two large categories:

How to improve one's relationship with God.
How to conduct oneself in relation to one's fellow human beings.

These two categories in fact cover all aspects of religious laws. We cannot enter into a lengthy discussion of how this task is carried out to perfection in Islam, but perhaps it would be appropriate to illustrate a few important features of this teaching of universal character.


:w:

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Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah

Oh, so now you're saying that god's racist? I can't believe you guys. Abraham wasn't a jew, nor was he a christian - yet he submitted to God and he wasn't of the polytheists.
[INDENT]
[COLOR=Navy] Abraham was not a Jew nor yet a Christian; but he was true in Faith, and bowed his will to Allah's (Which is Islam), and he joined not gods with Allah.

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No Abraham's Son was the first of the Jew's. And that is when God made a covenant with the Jews for an everlasting covenant.
They are being punished still now for their sins of their previous generations. Since they disobeyed God. Like we were punished with the ability to die when Adam sinned in heaven.
All the prophets even mentioned in the Quran are Jews from Isaac onwards. You don't find that strange ? :?

But through Jesus he made the world follow God's Word and Son. He gave many signs in the OT and NT that the gentiles will receive God's revelation after his resurrection.

- God made a covenant (promise) with the Jews. And it cannot be broken as easily as Muslims claim.
- He also made a promise that he would "pour out his spririt upon the nations" (give to us his Holy Spirit so that we can be in union with God).
- And another promise that he would make all the nations of the world follow him in truth (through the power of the Holy Spirit).

This is what happened when Jesus came to the earth and fulfilled these promises. You cannot deny the truth.

You can claim "it never happened", but why then has all the prophecies come true concerning him in the OT, and the prophecies that Jesus made in the NT come true ?
Such as "Solomon's temple (that Herod the great re-built) will be totally and utterly dismantled, so that not even a stone will be left.

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Mark 13 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society


Mark 13
Signs of the End of the Age
1As he was leaving the temple, one of his disciples said to him, "Look, Teacher! What massive stones! What magnificent buildings!"

2"Do you see all these great buildings?" replied Jesus. "Not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down."

3As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter, James, John and Andrew asked him privately, 4"Tell us, when will these things happen? And what will be the sign that they are all about to be fulfilled?"

5Jesus said to them: "Watch out that no one deceives you. 6Many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am he,' and will deceive many. 7When you hear of wars and rumors of wars, do not be alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 8Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be earthquakes in various places, and famines. These are the beginning of birth pains.

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Was this prophecy fulfilled ?

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Legend has it that the construction of the entire complex lasted only three years, but other sources such as Josephus say that it took far longer, although the Temple itself may have taken that long. It is possible that the complex was only a few years completed when the future Emperor Titus burnt the place to the ground in 70 CE.

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This Temple was where the dome of the rock is now. This thing was huge, no one would have imagined that this place could be teared down it was so massive.
But Jesus made the bold claim, and just ~40 years latter it was totally dismantled and

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Not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down

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so his prophecy came true. The whole temple was removed by the Romans to get rid of the Jews, so they destroyed the temple so that no one could worship.
So the Romans kicked the Israelites out of their promised land.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herod's_Temple

-God made the promise that the Israelites will come back though and re-establish Israel.
No one could have predicted this even the Bible scholars and historians couldn't/wouldn't believe it. But that has happened too !!

It says that the Jews will attacked and killed for many years to come. As punishment for their rebellion. To the point that the Jews will be totally wiped out. But God will show himself then, and destroy all the enemies of Israel.

Be prepared, be scared !! :laugh: :-[

YEh

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Oh, so now you're saying that god's racist? I can't believe you guys.

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What can you not believe? I was under the impression that Allah in the Quran specifically proclaims that at one time the Children of Israel were his favorite, so is he racist? It is an interesting discussion, do you have any commentaries you could provide me with on those verses?

The Children of Israeel were a people chosen by Allaah for a specific amount of time, when they accepted the Prophets sent to them and obeyed them. That was the covenant - if you obey the Messengers' sent to you, Allaah will keep His side of the covenant, but when they started rejecting some Prophets while slaying others - why should Allaah keep His covenant with them? Infact, if they're breaking the covenant with Allaah - He will break His side of the covenant with them. And that's exactly what happened.


You can read more commentary here:

Allah's Blessings for the Children of Israel
http://tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=2&tid=1743

From the belief of all who believe in the Hebrew scriptures, that may be a problem because of how the covanent is told to be everlasting. Why would God proclaim something like this, when he knows it is not true? Oh, yeah, it was added to it later (Islams answer).

I just do not see why they would add that, but either way, it is basically agree to disagree.

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Originally Posted by jamaaljad

From the belief of all who believe in the Hebrew scriptures, that may be a problem because of how the covanent is told to be everlasting. Why would God proclaim something like this, when he knows it is not true? Oh, yeah, it was added to it later (Islams answer).

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So you think that God would keep His covenant with them even if they broke their side of it? Or do you think that God is dependant upon them? No he's not:

Allâh to Whom belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth! And woe unto the disbelievers from a severe torment.

Those who prefer the life of this world instead of the Hereafter, and hinder (men) from the Path of Allâh (i.e.Islâm) and seek crookedness therein - They are far astray.

And We sent not a Messenger except with the language of his people, in order that he might make (the Message) clear for them. Then Allâh misleads whom He wills and guides whom He wills. And He is the All-Mighty, the All-Wise.


And indeed We sent Mûsa (Moses) with Our Ayât (signs, proofs, and evidences) (saying): "Bring out your people from darkness into light, and make them remember the annals of Allâh. Truly, therein are evidences, proofs and signs for every patient, thankful (person)."

And indeed We sent Mûsa (Moses) with Our Ayât (signs, proofs, and evidences) (saying): "Bring out your people from darkness into light, and make them remember the annals of Allâh. Truly, therein are evidences, proofs and signs for every patient, thankful (person)."

And (remember) when Mûsa (Moses) said to his people: "Call to mind Allâh's Favour to you, when He delivered you from Fir'aun's (Pharaoh) people who were afflicting you with horrible torment, and were slaughtering your sons and letting your women alive, and in it was a tremendous trial from your Lord."


And (remember) when your Lord proclaimed: "If you give thanks (by accepting Faith and worshipping none but Allâh), I will give you more (of My Blessings), but if you are thankless (i.e. disbelievers), verily! My Punishment is indeed severe."

And Mûsa (Moses) said: "If you disbelieve, you and all on earth together, then verily! Allâh is Rich (Free of all wants), Owner of all Praise."


[Qur'an Abraham 14: 2-8]

Allaah can abrogate anything He wants, don't you see that Abraham was ordered to sacrifice his son? Yet what happened? Allaah abrogated that and made him slaughter a sheep/goat instead. Why shouldn't He? If a people rebel against Allaah and say evil about Him?

Instead He will replace them with a better people who will worship Him without associating partners with Him, they will love Allaah, and Allaah will love them. The covenants of Allaah are not binding upon anyone, only those whom He wills.

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Originally Posted by jamaaljad

I just do not see why they would add that, but either way, it is basically agree to disagree.

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It is also hard to understand why some people who claim to be Muslim would have denied that Muhammad was the real prophet and that the Angle Gabriel got it wrong and that he was meant to actually go to Ali (RA), or how people can claim divine-like attribute to men... but, hey, it happened, that is why we have deviant sects in Islam, because someone felt the need to make something up.

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Allaah can abrogate anything He wants, don't you see that Abraham was ordered to sacrifice his son? Yet what happened? Allaah abrogated that and made him slaughter a sheep/goat instead. Why shouldn't He? If a people rebel against Allaah and say evil about Him?

Instead He will replace them with a better people who will worship Him without associating partners with Him, they will love Allaah, and Allaah will love them. The covenants of Allaah are not binding upon anyone, only those whom He wills.

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:sl:

What do you mean? Are you saying it is Islamic belief that the covenant with the Jews was meant to last till the end of time? :?

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Originally Posted by Malaikah

:sl:

What do you mean? Are you saying it is Islamic belief that the covenant with the Jews was meant to last till the end of time? :?

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Nah, i'm just saying that the jews believe their covenant with Allaah is forever. Yet i'm proving to them using their knowledge of Prophet Abraham that Allaah can abrogate something if He wills, so even if what they said is supposedly true i.e. that the covenant would remain with them, then they have to question why Allaah commanded something for Prophet Abraham and later abrogated it.

It's just something to think about for them.

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Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah

Nah, i'm just saying that the jews believe their covenant with Allaah is forever. Yet i'm proving to them using their knowledge of Prophet Abraham that Allaah can abrogate something if He wills, so even if what they said is supposedly true i.e. that the covenant would remain with them, then they have to question why Allaah commanded something for Prophet Abraham and later abrogated it.

It's just something to think about for them.

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What did you mean by this ?

The whole Bible is about the Jewish people, prophecies through them, and about them till the end of age.
I mentioned prophecies that were fulfilled that went against all odds, all about the state of Israel.
It also says that their land will be given over to another people and they will suffer greatly, but God has not forsaken them totally. They are getting punished for their crimes against God.

Of course it says this in the Quran, but where does it state in the Bible that this "everlasting covenant" with his chosen people was revoked ?

Peace people,

YEh

Hey.


You know how you expect the Jews to follow the Messiah son of Mary? :) Well we expect them to accept the Messiah and follow the revelation revealed to God's final Messeinger, Muhammad (peace be upon him.) :) Since the message is for all of mankind.

Those who disbelieve from among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) and among Al-Mushrikûn (the polytheists) were not going to leave (their disbelief) until there came to them clear evidence.

A Messenger (Muhammad (Peace be upon him)) from Allâh, reciting (the Qur'ân) purified pages [purified from Al-Bâtil (falsehood, etc.)].

Containing correct and straight laws from Allâh.


And the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) differed not until after there came to them clear evidence. (i.e. Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) and whatever was revealed to him).

And they were commanded not, but that they should worship Allâh, and worship none but Him Alone (abstaining from ascribing partners to Him), and perform As-Salât (Iqâmat-as-Salât - the 5 daily Prayers) and give Zakât (the charity): and that is the right religion.

Verily, those who disbelieve (in the religion of Islâm, the Qur'ân and Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him)) from among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) and Al-Mushrikûn will abide in the Fire of Hell. They are the worst of creatures.


Verily, those who believe [in the Oneness of Allâh, and in His Messenger Muhammad (Peace be upon him)) including all obligations ordered by Islâm] and do righteous good deeds, they are the best of creatures.

Their reward with their Lord is 'Adn (Eden) Paradise (Gardens of Eternity), underneath which rivers flow, they will abide therein forever, Allâh Well-Pleased with them, and they with Him. That is for him who fears his Lord.


[Qur'an - Al Bayyinah [the Clear Proof/Evidence] 98]

Regards.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah

So you think that God would keep His covenant with them even if they broke their side of it? Or do you think that God is dependant upon them? No he's not:

Allâh to Whom belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth! And woe unto the disbelievers from a severe torment.

Those who prefer the life of this world instead of the Hereafter, and hinder (men) from the Path of Allâh (i.e.Islâm) and seek crookedness therein - They are far astray.

And We sent not a Messenger except with the language of his people, in order that he might make (the Message) clear for them. Then Allâh misleads whom He wills and guides whom He wills. And He is the All-Mighty, the All-Wise.


And indeed We sent Mûsa (Moses) with Our Ayât (signs, proofs, and evidences) (saying): "Bring out your people from darkness into light, and make them remember the annals of Allâh. Truly, therein are evidences, proofs and signs for every patient, thankful (person)."

And indeed We sent Mûsa (Moses) with Our Ayât (signs, proofs, and evidences) (saying): "Bring out your people from darkness into light, and make them remember the annals of Allâh. Truly, therein are evidences, proofs and signs for every patient, thankful (person)."

And (remember) when Mûsa (Moses) said to his people: "Call to mind Allâh's Favour to you, when He delivered you from Fir'aun's (Pharaoh) people who were afflicting you with horrible torment, and were slaughtering your sons and letting your women alive, and in it was a tremendous trial from your Lord."


And (remember) when your Lord proclaimed: "If you give thanks (by accepting Faith and worshipping none but Allâh), I will give you more (of My Blessings), but if you are thankless (i.e. disbelievers), verily! My Punishment is indeed severe."

And Mûsa (Moses) said: "If you disbelieve, you and all on earth together, then verily! Allâh is Rich (Free of all wants), Owner of all Praise."


[Qur'an Abraham 14: 2-8]

Allaah can abrogate anything He wants, don't you see that Abraham was ordered to sacrifice his son? Yet what happened? Allaah abrogated that and made him slaughter a sheep/goat instead. Why shouldn't He? If a people rebel against Allaah and say evil about Him?

Instead He will replace them with a better people who will worship Him without associating partners with Him, they will love Allaah, and Allaah will love them. The covenants of Allaah are not binding upon anyone, only those whom He wills.

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Of course Allah can abrogate anything he wants, the point I am making is that he said it would be everlasting, so am I to claim that he does not have enough forsight to see that his statement of "everlasting" would be incorrect?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah

Hey.


You know how you expect the Jews to follow the Messiah son of Mary? :) Well we expect them to accept the Messiah and follow the revelation revealed to God's final Messeinger, Muhammad (peace be upon him.) :) Since the message is for all of mankind..

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Are you saying Jews cannot follow their covanent and follow Jesus as well?

Maybe i can ask you this question, do you think God would keep a covenant with someone who broke their side of it? What is the definition of a covenant? Both sides have to keep their side of their treaty for it to be kept intact.

Also, if we were to use your claim that the covenant is forever, then what really is the purpose for the rest of mankind? Are they supposed to wander around in darkness without even knowing that the 'Noahide laws' apply upon them? Without knowing the consequences if they break them laws? Since i've heard many jews on the forum state that there is no repentance for a person who breaks them laws, is that really fair? When someone hasn't even been warned?


Also - if jews can follow Jesus son of Mary, then they can also follow Muhammad since he is God's final Messenger. Oops, he's from a different race you ask? So what. He called to the 10 commandments, he never broke any of them - yet he is also the descendant of Abraham. So whats the difference? God knows best who He sends as a Messenger.


Abraham was not a Jew nor yet a Christian; but he was true in Faith, and bowed his will to Allah's (Which is Islam), and he joined not gods with Allah.

Without doubt, among men, the nearest of kin to Abraham, are those who follow him, as are also this Prophet and those who believe: And Allah is the Protector of those who have faith.

[Qur'an 3: 67-8]