What's with the sudden outbreak of Jesus Visions?

[AntiKarateKid]

All of a sudden everyone is claiming that this obscure Muslim or that one saw a vision and converted. SOme of the other ones go something like this

" I saw Muhammad and Jesus and Muhammad couldn't look Jesus in the eye"

Is this a current fad? Has all the talk about Islam having more converts and growing faster fueled this trend? How may we respond to a " Muslim" who claimed to see Esa in a vision such as this?

We all know Shaitan can easily decive people but he can never impersonate the prophet. I would ask this person what exactly the prophet looked like in this "vision" of his. Personally I think these people were all of questionable emaan. And would also make a counter claim about Non Muslims who had "visions" and converted to Islam.

What do you guys think?

[- Qatada -]

Here's the description of Allah's final Messenger, Muhammad (peace be upon him) in detail:

http://www.islamicboard.com/prophet-...b-tirmidh.html

It should be noted that it is possible for a person to see the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) in a dream, and that the Shaytaan cannot appear in the image of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), but he could appear in another form and claim that he is the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).

It was narrated that Abu Hurayrah said: I heard the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say: “Whoever sees me in a dream will see me when he is awake; the Shaytaan cannot take my shape.”

(Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 6592; Muslim, 2266).


According to a report narrated by Ahmad (3400): The Shaytaan cannot resemble me.”



Al-Haafiz Ibn Hajar said:

We have narrated it with a complete isnaad from Ismaa’eel ibn Ishaaq al-Qaadi from Sulaymaan ibn Harb – who was one of the shaykhs of al-Bukhaari – from Hammaad ibn Zayd from Ayyoob who said:

If a man told Muhammad (meaning Ibn Sireen) that he had seen the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) [in a dream], he would say, “Describe to me the one whom you saw.” If he gave a description that he did not recognize, he would say, “You did not see him.” Its isnaad is saheeh [authentic], and I have found another report which corroborates it. Al-Haakim narrated via ‘Aasim ibn Kulayb (who said), my father told me: I said to Ibn ‘Abbaas, “I saw the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) in a dream.” He said, “Describe him to me.” He said, “I mentioned al-Hasan ibn ‘Ali and said that he looked like him.” He said, “You did indeed see him.” Its isnaad is jayyid.

Fath al-Baari, 12/383, 384.

http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=23367&ln=eng&txt=dream%20image%20Muh ammad

[teen-omar]

jazakallhu khayran for the clarification akhi qatada
always at hand when needed ;-)
wassalam

[glo]

All of a sudden everyone is claiming that this obscure Muslim or that one saw a vision and converted. SOme of the other ones go something like this

" I saw Muhammad and Jesus and Muhammad couldn't look Jesus in the eye"

Is this a current fad? Has all the talk about Islam having more converts and growing faster fueled this trend? How may we respond to a " Muslim" who claimed to see Esa in a vision such as this?

We all know Shaitan can easily decive people but he can never impersonate the prophet. I would ask this person what exactly the prophet looked like in this "vision" of his. Personally I think these people were all of questionable emaan. And would also make a counter claim about Non Muslims who had "visions" and converted to Islam.

What do you guys think?

Everyone?? That's a lot of people!

I haven't heard of any such claims. Has this been in the news?
Do you have any evidence you could share in this forum?

Thank you.

[Umar001]

In general, I have found that alot of these people I have read about come across, don't actually know the real Islam. Some practice in Nigeria/Iran etc, they are brought up around Islam or practicing, but their concepts are not right. At best they know the general view that non-practicing Muslims hold, you know, parents who allow their children to eat pork and they drink alchol, but they tell their children 'Fear Allah...' the child here's bits and bobs here and there and then decides to leave Islam. Their perspective is just like that of a non Muslim, because they had not read exhustivly, while believing in Islam, about Islam.

I wonder if they then saw a drea of Jesus being shy infront of the Devil if they would devil worship. Hmm.

Most of this preaching is done to arouse emotion.

[glo]

Having a profound experience of a direct revelation from Jesus Christ is something not uncommon in converts to Christianity, and not necessarily just converts from Islam.
Make of such an occurance what you will, of course ...

I know many Christians who make such claims (myself included! )

I don't think it's necessarily of plot by Christians to confuse the Muslim world (which AntiKarateKid may or may not be impying)

Peace

[- Qatada -]

This is where Islam and Christianity differ, since revelation from God is given to Prophets & Messengers who come with clear signs and proofs, not just any person. If everyone was given revelation - then we'd all argue and claim that 'my revelation is more truer than yours', and the exact reason for Messengers was to unite mankind on what they differed.

[glo]

This is where Islam and Christianity differ, since revelation from God is given to Prophets & Messengers who come with clear signs and proofs, not just any person. If everyone was given revelation - then we'd all argue and claim that 'my revelation is more truer than yours', and the exact reason for Messengers was to unite mankind on what they differed.

Of course you have to test your experience against God's word. If there are discrepancies, then the revelation cannot be from God.

"God told me to kill my neighbour in cold blood", for example, would be a false revelation!

[Umar001]

Yea but you have to decide what God's word is for you to test it against it, if the revelation dictates that something is God's word then that is futile.

An example would be, someone gets revelation to "God told me to kill my neighbour in cold blood" this person then goes to the religion he was brought up in, religionx and sees that according to this religion this is right, so he does it.

[glo]

I'm afraid that the bias of interpreting events to fit into our own worldview/religion/thinking, is something we all have to guard ourselves against!

Just see what happens after natural disasters ... somebody will come out and claim that this was God's punishment against homosexuals/Muslim/Christians/unbelievers etc etc.
Nobody has any proof to make any such claims.
Truth is, we sometimes want to believe what we believe ... and we will fit thing in to support it.

I believe we guard ourselves against such self-centred thinking

• by knowing God's word well,
• by discussing our own understanding with other believers,
• by listening to those with greater knowledge,
• and last but not least by asking for God's guidance and protection in prayer

Peace

[Umar001]

I'm afraid that the bias of interpreting events to fit into our own worldview/religion/thinking, is something we all have to guard ourselves against!

Just see what happens after natural disasters ... somebody will come out and claim that this was God's punishment against homosexuals/Muslim/Christians/unbelievers etc etc.
Nobody has any proof to make any such claims.
Truth is, we sometimes want to believe what we believe ... and we will fit thing in to support it.

Well that depends, what I think is different is that, instead of trying to find a path through reason, some experience something and go to a path which they assume is right. Like for example, someone brought up in a Muslim family, never took Islam serious, one day has a near death experience, sees angels or something. Then this individual without any reason becomes a better Muslim, now, this individual has not studied to see if Islam is true, rather he has only started praciticing Islam more because he happend to be born into a Muslim family, if he were born into a hindu, jewish, christian family this same experience would just have made him practice his given faith more.

That is what I object to. And see happening alot. Now I am not saying that such a person's religion is not accepted, maybe he might be born into the right religion and its accepted, but what if he isn't. That is the problem I find, people have an experience and then go to the faith/religion they are most comfortable/aware of and practice it.

Thats what I meant..

[ddz]

According to the first few posts, some have said that it could be the devil in disguise as he does not come into a vision when the Prophet (PBUH) is present, and one post said that it could be the devil causing deciet, from what I have gathered (Just a skim through) it seems that the devil has disguised himself as the whole vision itself or one of the 2 - Jesus or Muhammad?

- because if he has disguised himself as Muhammad, and still cannot look jesus in the eye, thenn isnt it still beneficial ON THE WHOLE that Satan cannot prevail against God Almighty's followers?

[glo]

I understand your point, Eesa.

[Umar001]

- because if he has disguised himself as Muhammad, and still cannot look jesus in the eye, thenn isnt it still beneficial ON THE WHOLE that Satan cannot prevail against God Almighty's followers?

Not really, since the individually may then be lead to believe that Jesus is God or something like that.

[ddz]

Not really, since the individually may then be lead to believe that Jesus is God or something like that.

Thus.. the conversion Im guessing.. hmm if overall its beneficial upon the life of the convert, and makes him a better person on the whole, isnt it better that the person had the experience in the first place?

Bear in mind im not for what has happened, nor am I against it

Since the experience is subjective and personal, what would anyone's opinion matter? the vision is private, and bear in mind that people have these experiences among others different from visions, all in benefit. Its rare for an individual to have an experience and then act negative within the aftermath stage.

If the experience has benifited the subject on the whole- meaning he is a more wholly being, respects and loves his neighbours and obeys God Almighty, then who are we as people to judge what they're vision is? if its brought them more positivity within their actions then I think there is no point on judging whether the VISION itself is credible or not. Because what has occured in the long run is better for the individual.

Just like if a Christian has a vision and converts to islam, personally I will have no opinions, and will be glad that the individual is more at peace with himself and can go on to lead a good life - just as a muslim may convert into another relgion, and lead a better life

[barney]

Of course you have to test your experience against God's word. If there are discrepancies, then the revelation cannot be from God.

"God told me to kill my neighbour in cold blood", for example, would be a false revelation!

Abraham had a false revelation? :eek:

[Umar001]

Thus.. the conversion Im guessing.. hmm if overall its beneficial upon the life of the convert, and makes him a better person on the whole, isnt it better that the person had the experience in the first place?

Bear in mind im not for what has happened, nor am I against it

Since the experience is subjective and personal, what would anyone's opinion matter? the vision is private, and bear in mind that people have these experiences among others different from visions, all in benefit. Its rare for an individual to have an experience and then act negative within the aftermath stage.

If the experience has benifited the subject on the whole- meaning he is a more wholly being, respects and loves his neighbours and obeys God Almighty, then who are we as people to judge what they're vision is? if its brought them more positivity within their actions then I think there is no point on judging whether the VISION itself is credible or not. Because what has occured in the long run is better for the individual.

Just like if a Christian has a vision and converts to islam, personally I will have no opinions, and will be glad that the individual is more at peace with himself and can go on to lead a good life - just as a muslim may convert into another relgion, and lead a better life

Well you see, if you say that a person has an experience and obeys God due to that then of course I'll be happy.

But if you take that away, and say well I'm happy even if a person is heading to hell as long as they find inner peace in this world that in my view that is cruel.

That is like saying, I can see someone walking towards fire, but because they are enjoying that walk there I wont stop them or be upset? How can you be happy knowing that a Muslim will be tormented day and night for ever and ever? Is that love?

[ddz]

Well you see, if you say that a person has an experience and obeys God due to that then of course I'll be happy.

Good to know

But if you take that away, and say well I'm happy even if a person is heading to hell as long as they find inner peace in this world that in my view that is cruel.

off course i wouldnt say that, thats putting words into my mouth, IF the experience doesnt lead to a beneficial outcome then I would still feel that it is not up to me to judge on where the person stands between God and they.

That experience is totally subjective and private so for me to have an input and say ohh your mad for thinking this, or I think Satan has something to do with your vision.. I think thats cruel in its own way and right..

USUALLY experiences like this are likley to be beneficial in SOME way or another for the individual, the qualities of the benefits vary, but all in all its more likley for a subject to feel more closer to God and closens the epistemic distance with them and God

Its VERY rare to have random experiences like this which have no positive outcome.

[جوري]

interesting topic
these are mere tribulations (fitan) and fit in concert with the end of the world prophecies.. to know religion well and to hold on to it, is described as holding on to 'jamara min an'nar' i.e a fieryember from hell...

you should read suret al'mo'emnoon.. and listen to it here http://www.islamway.com/?iw_s=outdoo...1&rm_size=2.73

people will keep creating sects, doubting what is patently obvious or bulls******* or being devout, these are the options out there...
once you have found truth, hold on to it, and don't be alarmed by who is doing what..
I admit that I find it admirable that my Muslim brothers and sisters are so concerned about what other people think or of their fate in the here after.. for the life of me I can't understand why?... I admit I get a little perverse pleasure in knowing some of these people are kaffirs and shall have all eternity to rot in hell insha'Allah while contemplating if it were all worth it to torment and badger the believers...

It is like telling a smoker, smoking ain't good for him but he admantly disagrees, there is nothing you can do, it is his business and his body, the only time I'll do something about it, is if they smoke in front of me with intent to kill me slowely from second hand smoke... If he wants to die of any of the numerous cancers, emphysema, lung dz etc while recounting the tales of his uncle bob who smoked until he was 122 and nothing happened to him then so be it...

Just shrug your shoulder and smile at the profound stupidity and on occasion blow some savage mordant kisses, it really drives them nuts

[Woodrow]

While it is true a person may convert on the basis of a vision, it must be understood that a vision does not mean it is a true reveltion. If that were the case all visions would lead to the same path and we would all be one faith.

Because visions have led to different ends, I think it is an error, to convert on the basis of a vision alone. There seem to have been visions urging people to accept every faith at one time or another. They can not all be true but the individuals that saw them seem honestly convinced.


A vision may be a start, but it should be viewed with caution and other explanations should be explored before accepting it as a true revelation.