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    K.Venugopal's Avatar
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    What is the meaning of "I bear witness"?

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    Would anyone please enlighten me about what is meant by the phrase "I bear witness" in the Shahada - There is no god but Allah and Mohammad is his messenger.
    What is the meaning of "I bear witness"?

    "If you have two loaves of bread, sell one to buy hyacinths, for they will feed your soul." Mohammad

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    Re: What is the meaning of "I bear witness"?

    your accepting, and bearing witness, like your 100% sure that their is no god except Allah (swt) and Muhammad (pbuh) is his messenger...
    What is the meaning of "I bear witness"?

    Jaa-Ro-Nee-Mo!!!


    "they ask you when will the help of Allah (swt) come! Certainly Allah (Swt) help is always near"

    Surah al Baqarah v214



    SMILE

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    Re: What is the meaning of "I bear witness"?


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    Re: What is the meaning of "I bear witness"?

    It's a formal oath (like in court) that you are telling the truth, so you should never do this unless you are certain because bearing false witness is an unforgivable sin! In the court of man, you get charged with purgery which isn't that big of a deal these days, but of you commit this sin in the court of God... shudders to even think of the consequence!

    The Ninth Scribe
    What is the meaning of "I bear witness"?


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    Re: What is the meaning of "I bear witness"?

    My understanding of "I bear witness" is that I testify, or publically decare, that what follows is True and it also automatically negates anything that contradicts the statement.

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    Re: What is the meaning of "I bear witness"?

    Wallahi this ia great question, sometimes we (I) assume we (I) know what something means.
    What is the meaning of "I bear witness"?

    The path is long but I hope we meet,
    After the grave and the Day, in paradise in bliss upon a reclined seat.

    A traveler traveling - travelled from shirk to tawheed,
    If I'm remembered for anything - let it be the Mercy I seek.

    Your Bro. Abu Hurayra, al-Habeshi

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    K.Venugopal's Avatar
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    Re: What is the meaning of "I bear witness"?

    Would we, in bearing witness as in the Shahada, be bearing witness to our belief that Allah is the only god or are we bearing witness to a direct knowledge we have had?
    What is the meaning of "I bear witness"?

    "If you have two loaves of bread, sell one to buy hyacinths, for they will feed your soul." Mohammad

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    Re: What is the meaning of "I bear witness"?

    Quote Originally Posted by K.Venugopal View Post
    Would we, in bearing witness as in the Shahada, be bearing witness to our belief that Allah is the only god or are we bearing witness to a direct knowledge we have had?
    For me, personally, it is bearing witness to my faith, or deeply held beliefs that was based on my knowledge of the Quran that I gained from reading it.

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    Re: What is the meaning of "I bear witness"?


    What it means to bear witness that there is no god except Allaah is to deny that anyone other than Allaah has the right to be worshipped, and to affirm that this is the right of Allaah alone, with no partner or associate. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “That is because Allaah He is the Truth (the only True God of all that exists, Who has no partners or rivals with Him), and what they (the polytheists) invoke besides Him, it is Baatil (falsehood). And verily, Allaah He is the Most High, the Most Great”
    [al-Hajj 22:62]

    Just as Allaah has no partner in His dominion, so too He has no partner in His worship.

    a person has to utter the following words (with full faith) to be muslim ;
    THERE IS NO GOD BUT ALLAH, AND MUHAMMAD (PBUH) IS HIS MESSENGER.
    (PBUH) =peace_be_upon_him

    What is the meaning of "I bear witness"?

    "Our Body is form Earth, so its sustainance is from Earth. Our Soul is from Allah, so its sustainance is from Allah."
    -unknown-

    -------------------------------------------


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    K.Venugopal's Avatar
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    Re: What is the meaning of "I bear witness"?

    In the recitation of Shahada, Muslims bear witness that Allah is the only god on the basis of their faith and not experience. However, the word ‘witness’, as applicable in the Shariat, does not dilute the objectivity of witnessing by permitting the witness to qualify himself as witness on the basis of his having a subjective opinion of what he claims to have witnessed. In the case of rape, for example, the witness should have witnessed the actual penetration. Any subjective opinion about the character of the rapist would not suffice as witnessing. Would anyone please quote an authoritative source in Islam to indicate that to believe is equivalent to witnessing?
    What is the meaning of "I bear witness"?

    "If you have two loaves of bread, sell one to buy hyacinths, for they will feed your soul." Mohammad

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    Re: What is the meaning of "I bear witness"?

    Quote Originally Posted by K.Venugopal View Post
    In the recitation of Shahada, Muslims bear witness that Allah is the only god on the basis of their faith and not experience. However, the word ‘witness’, as applicable in the Shariat, does not dilute the objectivity of witnessing by permitting the witness to qualify himself as witness on the basis of his having a subjective opinion of what he claims to have witnessed. In the case of rape, for example, the witness should have witnessed the actual penetration. Any subjective opinion about the character of the rapist would not suffice as witnessing. Would anyone please quote an authoritative source in Islam to indicate that to believe is equivalent to witnessing?

    Those who have accepted Islam are followers of the truth. They have, through their effort and the grace of Allah, found the treasure of the world. WHen they bear witness, the can speak on behalf of Islam being the truth.


    Keep in mind, from an Islamic perspective, Islam is the truth and there is no subjectivity in saying that.

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    Re: What is the meaning of "I bear witness"?

    Quote Originally Posted by AntiKarateKid View Post
    Those who have accepted Islam are followers of the truth. They have, through their effort and the grace of Allah, found the treasure of the world. WHen they bear witness, the can speak on behalf of Islam being the truth.


    Keep in mind, from an Islamic perspective, Islam is the truth and there is no subjectivity in saying that.
    How do you know Islam is the truth except by accepting the word of the Quran for it? This being so, how would you have witnessed the truth? Accepting another’s word for something is not a witnessing. Witnessing cannot be a second-hand experience; it must be a direct experience. Therefore it appears that the phrase “I bear witness” in the Shahada is erroneous.
    What is the meaning of "I bear witness"?

    "If you have two loaves of bread, sell one to buy hyacinths, for they will feed your soul." Mohammad

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    Re: What is the meaning of "I bear witness"?



    ^ Why do people revert to Islam? Because they feel Islam is the truth. Hence, no contradiction.

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    Re: What is the meaning of "I bear witness"?

    Quote Originally Posted by K.Venugopal View Post
    How do you know Islam is the truth except by accepting the word of the Quran for it? This being so, how would you have witnessed the truth? Accepting another’s word for something is not a witnessing. Witnessing cannot be a second-hand experience; it must be a direct experience. Therefore it appears that the phrase “I bear witness” in the Shahada is erroneous.
    Anything else just doesn't have that certain oomph factor:

    I think there is a god

    I know there is a god

    I feel there is a god

    When you say that you bear witness, you claim to have had some form belief based on something beyond the thinking, feeling, and knowing.

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    Re: What is the meaning of "I bear witness"?

    Quote Originally Posted by K.Venugopal View Post
    How do you know Islam is the truth except by accepting the word of the Quran for it? This being so, how would you have witnessed the truth? Accepting another’s word for something is not a witnessing. Witnessing cannot be a second-hand experience; it must be a direct experience. Therefore it appears that the phrase “I bear witness” in the Shahada is erroneous.
    witnessing what?
    The Quran being revealed?

    We witness the truth of Allah in every walk of life. the sun rising and setting, the trees, the little ants, children, moutains..all of this is the creation of Allah.

    Declaring the shahahdah is not just something to say, it is to believe without doubt, with absolute certainty that there is none worthy of worship but Allah and Muhammed is His servant and messenger. It is to believe first hand, to witness the truth of Islam yourself.

    As for certainty in the Quran...The Quran addresses that ...


    And if you (Arab pagans, Jews, and Christians) are in doubt concerning that which We have sent down (i.e. the Quran) to Our slave (Muhammad Peace be upon him ), then produce a Soorah (chapter) of the like thereof and call your witnesses (supporters and helpers) besides Allah, if you are truthful

    But if you do it not, and you can never do it, then fear the Fire (Hell) whose fuel is men and stones, prepared for the disbelievers

    2:23-24

    to date no one has been able to rise to the challenge given by the Quran.

    indeed the pagans of Arabia accused Muhammed of forging the Quran,

    Or they say, "He (Prophet Muhammad SAW) forged it (the Quran)." Say: "Bring you then ten forged Soorah (chapters) like unto it, and call whomsoever you can, other than Allah (to your help), if you speak the truth!"

    11:13

    none of them, from the influential leaders to the poets were able to rise to this challenge. Further more the Quran contains things that could not have been made, like telling things of the future (surah Room) and indeed many secrets of the world that scientists today are just discovering. The Quran contains no contradiction or mistake (if you do have an verses you may not understand then we can help you with that.)

    and Allah knows best
    What is the meaning of "I bear witness"?

    Our Lord! Verily, we have heard the call of one calling to Faith: 'Believe in your Lord,' and we have believed.
    Our Lord! Forgive us our sins and expiate from us our evil deeds, and make us die (in the state of righteousness) along with Al-Abrar

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    K.Venugopal's Avatar
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    Re: What is the meaning of "I bear witness"?

    My question here is simply this, how has any Muslim witnessed that Allah is the only god and Mohammad is His prophet? Does witness mean “I believe”? You could say, “I am witness to the love of Allah, because every time I pray, I feel His presence and love.” Here it means, “I have experienced Allah’s love. I bear witness to it.” You are your own witness. But in the Shahada, a Muslim is claiming that Allah is the only god. Did he go to a high mountain, peer into heaven, see no one else but Allah sitting there, and come back to claim that Allah is the only god? Similarly, a Muslim may know from the Quran that Mohammad is Allah’s prophet and this knowledge may be absolute truth for him. But in what way does the word ‘witness’ come into the picture? Was any Muslim on the scene when Allah dubbed Mohammed as his prophet? Therefore are not Muslims in reciting the Shahada being untruthful?
    What is the meaning of "I bear witness"?

    "If you have two loaves of bread, sell one to buy hyacinths, for they will feed your soul." Mohammad

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    IbnAbdulHakim's Avatar
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    Re: What is the meaning of "I bear witness"?

    ^ i see where your going with this.

    and it may appear to actually be a valid point


    BUT thats only if your a literalist



    no we have not seen Allaah
    and we have not seen prophet Muhammad sallallahi alaihi wasallaam physically dubbed to be the messenger

    but we have the Quran, and by it we know Allaah
    we have the Quran and by it we know our messenger
    and by the Quran we declare and testify to the truth, which to us is as clear as our own two hands.


    so just as we bare witness that we have two hands, we can barewitness by our understanding and guidance via the Quran




    i hope that made sense for you
    What is the meaning of "I bear witness"?

    -
    My tears testify that i have a heart
    yet i feel me and shaytan never part
    -

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    Re: What is the meaning of "I bear witness"?

    Quote Originally Posted by K.Venugopal View Post
    My question here is simply this, how has any Muslim witnessed that Allah is the only god and Mohammad is His prophet? Does witness mean “I believe”?
    whether a person believe or disbelieves there is one fact that remains and that is there is none worthy of worship but Allah and Muhammed is the final Messenger,

    You could say, “I am witness to the love of Allah, because every time I pray, I feel His presence and love.” Here it means, “I have experienced Allah’s love. I bear witness to it.”
    bearing witness in the truth does not then mean when you specifically pray you are worshipping God. No, God is worshipped in all walks of life, islam is a way of life, its not just about worshipping and thats it,its your actions, intentions manners, everything.

    . But in the Shahada, a Muslim is claiming that Allah is the only god.
    a muslim is testifying in the truth that there is Only One God..


    Did he go to a high mountain, peer into heaven, see no one else but Allah sitting there, and come back to claim that Allah is the only god?
    Thats a silly way of putting it, its like saying youve seen the world map but you havent seen the countries above with your own eyes so are they really the shape that the maps indicate? or youve seen the moon but you dont know exactly what it is because youve only seen something in the sky, youve never been and touched the moon. Or youve heard about the ocean having a barrier between but you cant believe it because youve never seen it. There are a lot of things we believe without seeing because the truth and facts are right there.
    As Allah states trans of:

    Verily! In the creation of the heavens and the earth, and in the alternation of night and day, there are indeed signs for men of understanding.
    Those who remember Allah (always, and in prayers) standing, sitting, and lying down on their sides, and think deeply about the creation of the heavens and the earth, (saying): "Our Lord! You have not created (all) this without purpose, glory to You! (Exalted be You above all that they associate with You as partners). Give us salvation from the torment of the Fire.

    3:190-191

    but your question is not new. Indeed the Jews told Mossa peace be upon him they would not believe till they saw Allah plainly.


    Similarly, a Muslim may know from the Quran that Mohammad is Allah’s prophet and this knowledge may be absolute truth for him. But in what way does the word ‘witness’ come into the picture? Was any Muslim on the scene when Allah dubbed Mohammed as his prophet? Therefore are not Muslims in reciting the Shahada being untruthful?
    not at all, we may not have been there but we believe without doubt in the shahadah we say. it is Allah that guides and i cant make you believe and see what i see, but that does not mean i am wrong. Because you dont see something does not make it false. There are many signs on earth that Allah has placed for us to see.
    and the Quran answers your question trans of:

    And those who have no knowledge say: "Why does not Allah speak to us (face to face) or why does not a sign come to us?" So said the people before them words of similar import. Their hearts are alike, We have indeed made plain the signs for people who believe with certainty.
    Verily, We have sent you (O Muhammad Peace be upon him ) with the truth (Islam), a bringer of glad tidings (for those who believe in what you brought, that they will enter Paradise) and a warner (for those who disbelieve in what you brought, they will enter the Hell-fire). And you will not be asked about the dwellers of the blazing Fire.

    2:118-119

    How can you disbelieve in Allah? Seeing that you were dead and He gave you life. Then He will give you death, then again will bring you to life (on the Day of Resurrection) and then unto Him you will return.
    He it is Who created for you all that is on earth. Then He Istawa (rose over) towards the heaven and made them seven heavens and He is the All-Knower of everything


    2:28-29
    What is the meaning of "I bear witness"?

    Our Lord! Verily, we have heard the call of one calling to Faith: 'Believe in your Lord,' and we have believed.
    Our Lord! Forgive us our sins and expiate from us our evil deeds, and make us die (in the state of righteousness) along with Al-Abrar

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    Re: What is the meaning of "I bear witness"?

    Quote Originally Posted by K.Venugopal View Post
    My question here is simply this, how has any Muslim witnessed that Allah is the only god and Mohammad is His prophet? Does witness mean “I believe”? You could say, “I am witness to the love of Allah, because every time I pray, I feel His presence and love.” Here it means, “I have experienced Allah’s love. I bear witness to it.” You are your own witness. But in the Shahada, a Muslim is claiming that Allah is the only god. Did he go to a high mountain, peer into heaven, see no one else but Allah sitting there, and come back to claim that Allah is the only god? Similarly, a Muslim may know from the Quran that Mohammad is Allah’s prophet and this knowledge may be absolute truth for him. But in what way does the word ‘witness’ come into the picture? Was any Muslim on the scene when Allah dubbed Mohammed as his prophet? Therefore are not Muslims in reciting the Shahada being untruthful?


    You're not going to get a straight answer. Far too many things must be assumed axiomatically for someone to assert that they know the "truth".

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    Re: What is the meaning of "I bear witness"?

    Quote Originally Posted by K.Venugopal View Post
    How do you know Islam is the truth except by accepting the word of the Quran for it? This being so, how would you have witnessed the truth? Accepting another’s word for something is not a witnessing. Witnessing cannot be a second-hand experience; it must be a direct experience. Therefore it appears that the phrase “I bear witness” in the Shahada is erroneous.
    Declaring the shahaada, a person testifies/bears witness, that God (Allaah) exists without partners in divinity - no god but Him - and that Muhammad (pbuh) is His Messenger.

    Ho do we know that there is no God but God? History. Scripture. Revelation. Prophecy etc. The Qur'an, which is the miracle of miracles (for those who understand Arabic) is the greast of proofs. Next is the life of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh); his story, his miracles, his being prophesied in early scriptures, the events in his life etc. Any sceptic who dares to read about and examine the wondrous life story of the Holy Prophet, as well as the Qur'an from an authentic traditional source, attentively, his heart will recognize the truth, but his ego will stand in the way.

    If intelligent design and a fine-tuned universe isn't enough to convince an atheist, what else is? If an agnostic were to be given visions of an ethereal reality, he would call it magic, or perhaps a trick of the mind, and if he was shown heaven and hell, he would say it is but a dream or an illusion. Moreover, a Muslim ''witnesses" Allaah (with our inner eye) through progressive spiritual practise under the guidelines of Islamic spirituality and mysticism. Seeing Him with the naked eye is an intrinsic unattainableness in our dimension, for God transcends nature and all physical senses (if He didn't, He would be created being); He shall be beheld in the hereafter in a manner that suits His incorporeal and atemporal transcendence. So you see, esoteric experience in gnosis lies beyond logical explanation and as such cannot be illustrated in any language. A human being is to engage in muraaqaba (a form of deep spiritual reflection and meditation) to be able to begin comprehending reality.

    [58] Verily We* have coined for mankind in this Qur'an all kinds of similitudes; and indeed if you came unto them with a miracle, those who disbelieve would verily exclaim: You are but tricksters!
    [59] Thus does Allaah seal the hearts of those who know not.
    [60] So have patience (O Muhammad)! Allaah's promise is the very truth, and let not those who have no certainty make you impatient. {Qur'an: Surah 30}


    [*The "We" is taken as a royal-like pronoun]

    Peace and Guidance,

    Armand


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