Jesus: Divine Son of God or Prophet of Islam?

The answer to this question will not be found in a debate, but in which book (the Qur'an or the Bible) one takes as being authoritative (if either for some people), and the quality of the hermenuetic one uses when reading them. And, try as one might to be objective, that hermenuetic is going to be impacted by the faith one brings to the study. I find that most of these debates have Muslim thinking the Islamic representative won, and Christians thinking just the opposite. I used to be interested in them, but they all turn our so much the same, with little learned on either side, that I basically find them pointless now.

There is one good thing about them, though. Prior to where they start attacking each other's views, one can get a good statement of what the particular individual happens to him/herself believe. And there is always value in learning a little more about our brothers and sisters in humanity, even those we disagree with.

format_quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker

The answer to this question will not be found in a debate, but in which book (the Qur'an or the Bible) one takes as being authoritative (if either for some people), and the quality of the hermenuetic one uses when reading them. And, try as one might to be objective, that hermenuetic is going to be impacted by the faith one brings to the study. I find that most of these debates have Muslim thinking the Islamic representative one, and Christians thinking just the opposite. I used to be interested in them, but they all turn our so much the same, with little learned on either side, that I basically find them pointless now.

There is one good thing about them, though. Prior to where they start attacking each other's views, one can get a good statement of what the particular individual happens to him/herself believe. And there is always value in learning a little more about our brothers and sisters in humanity, even those we disagree with.

I disagree. Our arguments against the Trinity are using your own Bible as proof. Many have been convinced through debates like this that the Bible they followed is corrupt and did not call Isa pbuh God.

Honestly Seeker, why would you disregard such debates which are made even simpler for Christians by using their OWN holy books, to prove a point?

Your dismissal of such debate and espousing of a "either you believe the Bible or the Quran and thats that" answer is shocking in it's lack of depth and insight.

It is this attitude that drives many Christians away when you give such statements that expect religion to be just random and blind faith.

Debates provoke thought and they should continue. You say that this isnt the case for you but that is only because you have conditioned yourself to ignore the benefits of the debate.

format_quote Originally Posted by AntiKarateKid

I disagree. Our arguments against the Trinity are using your own Bible as proof. Many have been convinced through debates like this that the Bible they followed is corrupt and did not call Isa pbuh God.

Honestly Seeker, why would you disregard such debates which are made even simpler for Christians by using their OWN holy books, to prove a point?

Your dismissal of such debate and espousing of a "either you believe the Bible or the Quran and thats that" answer is shocking in it's lack of depth and insight.

It is this attitude that drives many Christians away when you give such statements that expect religion to be just random and blind faith.

Debates provoke thought and they should continue. You say that this isnt the case for you but that is only because you have conditioned yourself to ignore the benefits of the debate.

You misunderstand me if you think that I am calling for blind faith. What I am saying is that hearers of these debates don't come with open minds, but with preconceptions as to what is and is not authoritative, and based on those preformed views their conclusions can be anticipated even before the debate is begun.

When I see that to be true here debate after debate, I eventually have to ask the question, "What's the point?" I don't see people being edified or learning through these events, but simply further entrenched in to which ever ideas they were predisposed to from the beginning.

format_quote Originally Posted by Follower

LOL! I find it so funny that Muslims insist that the Bible is corrupt, when their Quran validates the Gospel and Torah.

It is possible that the label Trinity is deficient in labeling Jesus- for that title is from man. The concept is in the Bible, but it is not labeled for us.

Also Muslims insist that Jesus is a mere prophet under Mohammad when it is Jesus who unique above all in the Quran!!

Bring your proof. Because you make no sense right about now.

I find it so funny that you could be so ill informed about the Quran?

And when God said, 'O Jesus son of Mary, did you say unto men, "Take me and my mother as gods. apart from God?” He said, 'To you be glory! It is not mine to say what I have no right to. If I indeed said it, you knew it, knowing what is within my soul, and I do not know what is within your soul. you know the things unseen. I only said to them what you did command me: "serve God, my Lord and your Lord." And I was a witness over them, while I remained among them; but when you did take me to yourself, you were yourself the watcher over them; you are the witness of everything. If you punish them, they are your servants, if you forgive them, you are the Almighty, the All-wise.' God said, ‘This is the day the truthful shall be profited by their truthfulness. For them await gardens underneath which rivers flow therein dwelling forever, God being well-pleased with them end they well-pleased with Him; That is the mighty triumph'.

“Indeed, they are unbelievers who say, ‘God is the Messiah, the son of Mary.’” (Quran 5:72)
[/B]
Hmm, if you claim that that validates the Bible of today, then you should take another gander at your book.

Oh and btw, the Bible and Torah the Quran talks highly of are not the ones you use. Allah refers to the original uncorrupted ones which should have lead you to Islam.

You have today manuscripts littered with errors and written by anonymous authors.



Oh btw, about this nonsense about Isa pbuh being honored above all...


Say: We believe in God and that which is revealed unto us and that which was revealed unto Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and his sons, and that which was given to Moses and Jesus and the Prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between them, and unto Him we have surrendered.”
(Quran 3:83-84)


Should I continue butchering your comment? Because the only who should be laughing here is me, not you.

format_quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker

You misunderstand me if you think that I am calling for blind faith. What I am saying is that hearers of these debates don't come with open minds, but with preconceptions as to what is and is not authoritative, and based on those preformed views their conclusions can be anticipated even before the debate is begun.

When I see that to be true here debate after debate, I eventually have to ask the question, "What's the point?" I don't see people being edified or learning through these events, but simply further entrenched in to which ever ideas they were predisposed to from the beginning.

You are making a blanket statement. Do you really believe that everyone who watches these debates has come with their mind made up?

Have a little faith in man's intellect Graceseeker.....really.

YOU may feel that way but I assure you, there are many out there who would love to see a debate to help them make up their mind.

FOLLOWER: You compltetely distorted those verses and arrived at an unfounded opinion of Isa pbuh in Islam.

This rebuttal should correct your gave misconceptions.

Answer By Dr Zakir Naik :
1. JESUS (PBUH) "IS A WORD FROM ALLAH" NOT "THE WORD OF ALLAH"

The Qur’an mentions in Surah Ali ‘Imran Chapter 3 verse 45

"Behold! The angels said: O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus. The son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those Nearest to Allah.
[Al-Qur’an 3:45]

Jesus (pbuh) is referred in the Qur’an as a word from Allah and not as ‘the word of Allah’.

"A word" of Allah means a message of Allah. If a person is referred to as "a word" from Allah, it means that he is a Messenger or a Prophet of Allah.

2. THE TITLE OF A PROPHET (PBUH) DOES NOT MEAN THAT IT EXCLUSIVELY BELONGS TO THAT PROPHET (PBUH)

Different titles are given to different prophets (pbut). Whenever a title is given to a prophet (pbuh), it does not necessarily mean that the other prophets do not have the same characteristic or quality. For e.g. Prophet Abraham (pbuh) is referred to in the Qur’an as Khaleelullah, a friend of Allah. This does not indicate that all the other Prophets (pbuh) were not the friends of Allah. Prophet Moses (pbuh) is referred to in the Qur’an as Kaleemullah, indicating that God spoke to him. This does not mean that God did not speak to others. Similarly when Jesus (pbuh) is referred to in the Qur’an as Kalimatullah, "a word from Allah", it does not mean that the other Prophets were not "the word," of Allah.

3. JOHN THE BAPTIST (PBUH) IS ALSO CALLED "A WORD" OF ALLAH

Yahya (pbuh) i.e. John the Baptist (pbuh) is also referred to in the Qur’an as Kalimatullah i.e. a word of Allah in Surah Ali ‘Imran, Chapter 3, verses 38-39

"There did Zakariya Pray to his Lord, saying: "O my Lord! Grant unto me from Thee a progeny that is pure: for Thou art He that heareth prayer!

While he was standing in prayer in the chamber, the angels called unto him: "Allah doth give thee glad tidings of Yahya, witnessing the truth of a Word from Allah, and (be besides) noble, chaste, and a Prophet – of the (goodly) company of the righteous."
[Al-Qur’an 3:39]

4. JESUS (PBUH) REFERRED AS RUHULLAH – A SPIRIT OF ALLAH

Jesus (pbuh) also never referred to as Ruhullah "a spirit of Allah" but as a spirit from Allah in Surah Nisa Chapter 4 verse 171

"O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Jesus Christ the son of Mary was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah, And His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a Spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not ‘Trinity’: desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is One God: glory be to Him: (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs."
[Al-Qur’an 4:171]

5. SPIRIT OF ALLAH IS BREATHED IN EVERY HUMAN BEING

A spirit from Allah does not indicate that Jesus (pbuh) is God. The Qur’an mentions in several places that Allah breathed into the human beings "His Spirit" in Surah Al-Hijr, chapter 15 verse 29 in Surah Sajdah, chapter 32 verse 9

Surah Al Hijr Chapter 15 verse 29

"When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of My spirit, fall ye down in obeisance unto him."
[Al-Qur’an 15:29]

Surah Sajdah Chapter 32 verse 9

"But He fashioned him in due proportion, and breathed into him something of His spirit. And He gave you (the faculties of) hearing and sight and feeling (and understanding): little thanks do ye give!"
[Al-Qur’an 32:9]

format_quote Originally Posted by Follower

Anyone else labeled as Messiah in the Quran?

Do you understand that there were many other messiah's in the Bible? Look it up. It isnt a title reserved only for yeshua pbuh.

The Quran mentions only the most major prophets.

format_quote Originally Posted by Fedos

What happend was, is that God the Son (Jesus) literally stepped down from the throne of heaven and entered into the womb of Mary.

So who was on the Throne while he was gone?

format_quote Originally Posted by rpwelton

So who was on the Throne while He was gone?

I'll just quote you the revelant scriptures:

'Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God.

But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

And being found in the fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

And that every tongue should confess that Jesus is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.' Phillipians 2: 5-11.

When Jesus was incarnated he was totally dependent on God the Father, to serve as an example to us, Chistians, and to the world. The Father and the Holy Spirit were on the throne, but that doesn't change the nature of Christ, as we see in Saint John.

'In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The same was in the beginning with God.

All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made.

In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.

The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name;

Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.'

St. John 1: 1-14.