peace be upon those who follow righteous guidance,
this is a question i put to christians all the time when doing the da'wah stall (da'wah means invitation to islam) because they qoute the bible, we qoute the Quran.
how do we know which book is true when they differ on so many different matters?
many books claim to be the book of God, but how can we independently varify which is a true book of God and which not?
the book itself saying it is true is not in itself a proof, that is totally circular in reasoning. so we have to have something other than this.
so could we just see if we agree, the creator does not lie, the creator does not make mistakes. do we agree with these two ideas?
if we do then it becomes easier to varify which is the true book of God as it should therefore have no contradictions or mistakes in it.
peace be upon those who follow righteous guidance,
this is a question i put to christians all the time when doing the da'wah stall (da'wah means invitation to islam) because they qoute the bible, we qoute the Quran.
how do we know which book is true when they differ on so many different matters?
many books claim to be the book of God, but how can we independently varify which is a true book of God and which not?
the book itself saying it is true is not in itself a proof, that is totally circular in reasoning. so we have to have something other than this.
so could we just see if we agree, the creator does not lie, the creator does not make mistakes. do we agree with these two ideas?
if we do then it becomes easier to varify which is the true book of God as it should therefore have no contradictions or mistakes in it.
If you accept that God writes books that would be one strategy. The problem with this is that many people do not accept that premise.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
If you accept that God writes books that would be one strategy. The problem with this is that many people do not accept that premise.
if a book claims to be the true book of God then it would therefore be without flaw or contradiction, as only God is perfect, only God is capable of writing a book without flaws.
if a book claims to be the true book of God then it would therefore be without flaw or contradiction, as only God is perfect, only God is capable of writing a book without flaws.
Again, that is if you accept the premise that God writes books. There is a difference between God revealing Himself through revelation and interaction and writing a book. Yes, if God actually "wrote" a book it would be perfect as befits His nature. I don't believe Christians or Muslims make the claim that God actually wrote a book. Both religions believe that God's message is contained within our holy books, the difference is that Muslim's claim and believe that the Qu'ran is in its entirety the literal message of God. That is a matter of faith.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
Again, that is if you accept the premise that God writes books. There is a difference between God revealing Himself through revelation and interaction and writing a book. Yes, if God actually "wrote" a book it would be perfect as befits His nature. I don't believe Christians or Muslims make the claim that God actually wrote a book. Both religions believe that God's message is contained within our holy books, the difference is that Muslim's claim and believe that the Qu'ran is in its entirety the literal message of God. That is a matter of faith.
Yup Muslims don't make a claim that God physically wrote Quran by his hand. Author doesn't have to write book by his hand, author can dictate and scribe or publisher can write the book, yet book belongs to author. The key question is who the words belong too.
It is not Al-Birr (piety, righteousness, and obedience to Allâh, etc.) that you turn your faces towards east and (or) west (in prayers); but Al-Birr is (the quality of) the one who believes in Allâh, the Last Day, the Angels, the Book, the Prophets and gives his wealth, in spite of love for it, to the kinsfolk, to the orphans, and to Al-Masâkîn (the poor), and to the wayfarer, and to those who ask, and to set slaves free, performs As-Salât, and gives the Zakât, and keep their word whenever they make a promise, and who are patient in extreme poverty and ailment (disease) and at the time of persecution, hardship, and war. Such are the people of the truth and they are Al-Muttaqûn (the pious).
That thread will probably answer most of your questions. (I'm sure there are tons of other ones out there as well)
Bs'd
I looked at those prophecies, and they are supposed to have happened about 1400 years ago, and be fulfilled a few years after they would have been spoken.
Now there is of course no way to check if those prophecies were spoken before or after the events they speak about.
What I read in the Quran, is that the mother of Jesus, Miriam, was the daughter of Imran, the father of Moses.
But Moses and Miriam, they lived 1300 years before Jesus. So that looks like a serieus problem.
Again, that is if you accept the premise that God writes books..
Keltoi, there are two opinions on this amongst the scholars, one is that the meanings of the qur'an are from Allah, the words from the prophet, the other is that both meanings and words are from Allah. doesn't make much difference either way, no one claimed that Allah 'wrote' books. straw man..
on subject, we 'believe' the qur'an is true, faith and reason are both in play here, if the qur'an is coherent-no contradictions-, and makes no claims that could be falsified by science, and the moral commands and world view etc there are sound, and have benefits then it's 'true'. the bible and Torah specifically have been tampered with by men 'inspired' by God, many other 'bibles' existed, why the current ones and not the others, not to mention other obvious indicators of it not being 'true' anymore.
Bs'd
What I read in the Quran, is that the mother of Jesus, Miriam, was the daughter of Imran, the father of Moses.
But Moses and Miriam, they lived 1300 years before Jesus. So that looks like a serieus problem.
Hay "Torah Truth". Say, my name is also "Torah Truth" but it doesn't mean we are same person. We are 2 different persons.... Like wise Father of Maryam was also Imran sharing name with Prophet Imran ..... They were 2 different persons......
How can i say this??? Because it's clarified in a Hadees. I'll InshALLAH find that Hadees & post that in this very post, so do visit again
Keltoi, there are two opinions on this amongst the scholars, one is that the meanings of the qur'an are from Allah, the words from the prophet, the other is that both meanings and words are from Allah. doesn't make much difference either way, no one claimed that Allah 'wrote' books. straw man..
on subject, we 'believe' the qur'an is true, faith and reason are both in play here, if the qur'an is coherent-no contradictions-, and makes no claims that could be falsified by science, and the moral commands and world view etc there are sound, and have benefits then it's 'true'. the bible and Torah specifically have been tampered with by men 'inspired' by God, many other 'bibles' existed, why the current ones and not the others, not to mention other obvious indicators of it not being 'true' anymore.
The issue of course is whether one particular holy book is "the" Word of God. That is a matter of faith and faith alone. I can read the manual for my new television set and find no contradictions in the things it tells me...that does not equate to divine involvement. As in all things to do with religion, it boils down to faith and which holy book we see as the authority.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
The issue of course is whether one particular holy book is "the" Word of God. That is a matter of faith and faith alone. I can read the manual for my new television set and find no contradictions in the things it tells me...that does not equate to divine involvement. As in all things to do with religion, it boils down to faith and which holy book we see as the authority.
no, it is a matter which can be proved by proof and ration not just faith alone. you go on yours on faith alone because you know it is full of flaws and contradictions like the guru granth sahib and the sancrit scriptures of the hindus.
the Quran however is without flaw or contradiction, unlike the bible.
the Quran however is without flaw or contradiction, unlike the bible.
Except for the parts where
• it refers to the existence of invisible magical spirits from Arabian mythology (djinn)
•*it claims that the entire world was covered in a flood and a man gathered all the million plus species onto an ark (11:40)
• it refers to the sun's orbit, usually in the same phrase as the moon's orbit, (13:2, 21:33, 36:40) along with places where the sun rises and sets (18:86)—just like most Mesopotamian myths
• it refers to splitting the moon into two pieces (54:1)
• it claims that the stars will "fall"; (81:2) and the lower sky has "lamps" in it (41:12)
• it claims that humans are formed from a "gushing fluid" that comes from between your loins and ribs (86:5)
This is exactly the kind of language you would expect from 7th-century desert nomads.
Of course, Muslims have all kinds of clever ways of interpreting these verses "metaphorically" or whatever so they don't seem as silly as they are—just like Christians interpret the Bible to seem less silly than it is.
I'm also a fan of the part in the Bukhari hadith that talks about Muhammad riding a magical flying donkey, al-Buraq.
Eh, mock all you like.
To us our religion, to you yours. (or nonreligion, should I say, as atheists seem so adamant to stress that atheism is not a religion)
Last edited by crayon; 02-04-2009 at 02:21 PM.
Reason: lol typo, thanks alpha
Torah Truth- Yes it is the prophecies help prove that a scripture is from GOD.
Qingu- If there is a "contradiction" in the Bible further, deeper study into the "contradiction" reveals a truer, richer story. The "contradiction" becoming more information for the one with an open heart.
Various translation can also help you decide if the message is truely a contradiction, or a human error.
LOL!! Why would someone manufacture contradictions and say it is from GOD!! Wouldn't they realize that atheists would question it and use that to prove that the writing was not from GOD?
We no the quran is reall becuase that is the only holy book that has never been changed it was given too our prophet with the exact same words from allah. and it will never be changed and never has.
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Author doesn't have to write book by his hand, author can dictate and scribe or publisher can write the book, yet book belongs to author. The key question is who the words belong too.
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