When we look at the greatness and perfection of nature it seems that all has been created with intended purpose, gravitational laws, physic laws, natural laws, this goes for all natural bodies present in our universe.
However natural bodies are unintelligent, they are incapable of deciding of these laws by themselves, however they all act towards a defined end, for example, a planet will orbit around the sun.
The complex array of cells of the human body all have specific functions, acting towards an end is a characteristic of intelligence.
Now that this has been said it is obvious that there exists an intelligent being that guides all that exists and dictates these laws.
If there is no God like the atheists put it then ultimately there can be no right or wrong, and morality is just a construct from the chemicals in our minds and from altruistic behaviour, ultimately it does not matter, it does not matter how many children’s you’ve raped or killed, the poor are dying in the street? Who cares let them die! Every man for himself! Because it matters not. It won’t matter in the end if you lived your live like Hitler or like a saint, it won’t matter how much pain you have caused to fellow men,
they hold that the only reason why people are moral is because they are like a dogs that wont piss on the carpet because they fear punishment, we don’t need earthly punishment to be moral, even if we have no proof of heavenly punishment we believe, and that is the greatness in our faith! To believe without evidence to show true love for God!
Imagine this dialogue with death in the atheistic worldview.
When the just that comes to the end of his life dies Death will come to him and will say '' I don’t give a *** what good you have done in your life if you have done this or that, you’re no better than any random road pancake on the interstate, now get into your box and rot away, just like the only true passage of your silly book said: you are ashes and to ashes you will return!''
And shame to the atheists like trumble and tetsujin that come here in an attempt to support this vile and contemptuous worldview, shame on them for labouring to instigate doubt here and promote a
Worldview that dooms’ even themselves in this equating hopeless reality that they hold as death!
If what you believe is true because in the end it all comes back to the same thing, so why are you here?
I think the possibility of meaninglessness of life in the absence of God does not necessitate inevitability of the anti-thesis of that possibility. It might help the believer to strengthen his faith, but not the disbeliever because the disbeliever is convinced that is just how cruel life is. Just my opinion.
Last edited by CosmicPathos; 12-13-2009 at 05:31 AM.
If there is no God like the atheists put it then ultimately there can be no right or wrong
Religion does not provide morality. It provides obedience. Islam doesn't teach you to be good for the sake of good, it teaches you to submit to the will of Allah.
You have a moral sense independent of your religious dogma that you've coloured it with.
ultimately it does not matter, it does not matter how many children’s you’ve raped or killed, the poor are dying in the street? Who cares let them die!
Would you really be out there raping children if not for your religion? I have too much respect for you to believe that is true.
shame on them for labouring to instigate doubt here and promote a
Worldview that dooms’ even themselves in this equating hopeless reality that they hold as death!
Do you believe that they are out to **** people to hell in some evil conspiracy? Can you not see that they don't believe in such things and speak in earnest? Encouraging people to think for themselves rather than following the claims and commands of others?
Religion does not provide morality. It provides obedience. Islam doesn't teach you to be good for the sake of good, it teaches you to submit to the will of Allah.
You have a moral sense independent of your religious dogma that you've coloured it with.
Would you really be out there raping children if not for your religion? I have too much respect for you to believe that is true.
Do you believe that they are out to **** people to hell in some evil conspiracy? Can you not see that they don't believe in such things and speak in earnest? Encouraging people to think for themselves rather than following the claims and commands of others?
Think for themselves? Right!
Would you be with your 80 year old mom on her death bed at the expense of your work responsibilities and career goals and ambitions? Without religion, I would not feel the need to waste my time by spending it with a dying person who has no hope to survive.
Would you be with your 80 year old mom on her death bed at the expense of your work responsibilities and career goals and ambitions? Without religion, I would not feel the need to waste my time by spending it with a dying person who has no hope to survive.
Well thats my entire point! if God does not exist anything goes. And we can be selfish beasts.
So screw then dying mother! who cares she will die anyways!
Because in the end it dosen't realy matter! none of it does!
haha and then the dude brings in an emotional situation of 'raping the young boys and girls.' Well, it is perfectly moral for a 35 year old, who cannot find pleasure in women of old age, to convince a 10 year old into sexual pleasures. What is wrong with it? Only religion forbids fornication with young children. Your religionless morality is based on what? Just because you would not do it and personally find it reprehensible, you would dictate your personal morality onto someone who does not think like you? Nice, dogmatic ideology.
Last edited by CosmicPathos; 12-13-2009 at 05:54 AM.
Would you be with your 80 year old mom on her death bed at the expense of your work responsibilities and career goals and ambitions? Without religion, I would not feel the need to waste my time by spending it with a dying person who has no hope to survive.
Even if she's your mother and this is the last time you will ever see her? That's cold man. Really cold.
Even if she's your mother and this is the last time you will ever see her? That's cold man. Really cold.
Should not I be investing my energy and resources that make me and my progeny more fit rather than spending them on a dying person? And why is it cold? Just because you find it "cold," I do not have to find it that way and of course it is not illegal! Yay.
haha and then the dude brings in an emotional situation of 'raping the young boys and girls.' Well, it is perfectly moral for a 35 year old, who cannot find pleasure in women of old age, to lure a 12 year old into sexual pleasures. What is wrong with it? Only religion forbids fornication with young children. Your religionless morality is based on what? Just because you would not do it and personally find it reprehensible, you would dictate your personal morality onto someone who does not think like you? Nice, dogmatic ideology.
Well the rapist could argue: why not?? It gives me pleasure! I shall do as I please, pygosellis who are you to tell me what to do?
as I shall die and go unpunished in the sweetest of sleeps, for now let me rape It is pleasurable to me!
Would you be with your 80 year old mom on her death bed at the expense of your work responsibilities and career goals and ambitions? Without religion, I would not feel the need to waste my time by spending it with a dying person who has no hope to survive.
So, who is the better person:
1) The atheist who spends time with their dying mother because they love her and want her to be happy on her deathbed or...
2) The religious person who is only at their mothers deathbed because they don't want to go to Hell.
Who is the selfish person here? Does doing "good" things only to avoid getting punished make you a better person? It seems to me that your religion is now providing you with a completely selfish reason to do what is right.
Lack of religion does not mean that there is a lack of love or compassion. Don't delude yourself into believing that.
1) The atheist who spends time with their dying mother because they love her and want her to be happy on her deathbed or...
2) The religious person who is only at their mothers deathbed because they don't want to go to Hell.
Who is the selfish person here? Does doing "good" things only to avoid getting punished make you a better person? It seems to me that your religion is now providing you with a completely selfish reason to do what is right.
Lack of religion does not mean that there is a lack of love or compassion. Don't delude yourself into believing that.
Without God there can be no objective moral values.
Everything is relative without God, good and bad does not exist.
Should not I be investing my energy and resources that make me and my progeny more fit rather than spending them on a dying person? And why is it cold? Just because you find it "cold," I do not have to find it that way and of course it is not illegal! Yay.
I'd hope that you loved your mother and would want to spend some time with her at the end of her life. And if you don't... then I'd find it rather shallow for you to spend time with her just for show or to win a celestial prize.
Last edited by Pygoscelis; 12-13-2009 at 06:06 AM.
Without God there can be no objective moral values.
Everything is relative without God, good and bad does not exist.
How does introducing God create objective moral values?
Isn't religious morality just obedience to God's will? And his subjective decisions on these moral values? (Or in reality the subjective views of those claiming to speak for him?)
Last edited by Pygoscelis; 12-13-2009 at 06:07 AM.
1) The atheist who spends time with their dying mother because they love her and want her to be happy on her deathbed or...
2) The religious person who is only at their mothers deathbed because they don't want to go to Hell.
Who is the selfish person here? Does doing "good" things only to avoid getting punished make you a better person? It seems to me that your religion is now providing you with a completely selfish reason to do what is right.
Lack of religion does not mean that there is a lack of love or compassion. Don't delude yourself into believing that.
What do you mean by better? So now you are classifying people as "good," "better" and "bad" just because some cling to a certain idea and other's dont? I would actually say that the atheist is a bad person who is sitting with his religious mom, she cries, the atheist replies "sorry mom, I wish I could do anything but this is your end, I will never see you again."
And by the way, a religious person would sit beside his mom not because he fears going to hell but because he knows that it is the command of God and that is the most moral thing to do as clarified by his God and he has no option to rebel against his God.
Last edited by CosmicPathos; 12-13-2009 at 06:07 AM.
What do you mean by better? So now you are classifying people as "good," "better" and "bad" just because some cling to a certain idea and other's dont? I would actually say that the atheist is a bad person who is sitting with his religious mom, she cries, the atheist replies "sorry mom, I wish I could do anything but this is your end, I will never see you again."
And by the way, a religious person would sit beside his mom not because he fears going to hell but because he knows that it is the command of God and that is the most moral thing to do as clarified by his God and he has no option to rebel against his God.
How does introducing God create objective moral values?
Isn't religious morality just obedience to God's will? And his subjective decisions on these moral values? (Or in reality the subjective views of those claiming to speak for him?)
If you admitt to God then his decisions are wholly good and absolute, if you trust in yourself then your descisions are relative and questionnable.
So now you are classifying people as "good," "better" and "bad" just because some cling to a certain idea and other's dont?
Yes, I think a person that truly cares for the mother is a better person than one who does it only for their own gain. Call me crazy.
And no, I didn't say that someone was better than someone else because of ideas they cling to. I was implying that the person can be defined, in my humble opinion, as better than someone else based on their motives.
For example, I would look down upon the person that killed someone in order to rob them, but not on the one that killed in self defense. The motive is the key.
Funnily, religion often says the same thing, because the robber would be punished and the person defending themselves or their family would not.
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