× Register Login What's New! Contact us
Page 1 of 21 1 2 3 11 ... Last
Results 1 to 20 of 411
  1. #1
    Justufy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    162
    Threads
    4
    Reputation
    249
    Rep Power
    61
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Logical proof for the existence of holy god.

    Report bad ads?

    When we look at the greatness and perfection of nature it seems that all has been created with intended purpose, gravitational laws, physic laws, natural laws, this goes for all natural bodies present in our universe.

    However natural bodies are unintelligent, they are incapable of deciding of these laws by themselves, however they all act towards a defined end, for example, a planet will orbit around the sun.

    The complex array of cells of the human body all have specific functions, acting towards an end is a characteristic of intelligence.

    Now that this has been said it is obvious that there exists an intelligent being that guides all that exists and dictates these laws.

    And this all men know as God.

  2. Report bad ads?
  3. #2
    IAmZamzam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Fort Smith, Arkansas
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    1,480
    Threads
    50
    Reputation
    7394
    Rep Power
    67
    Likes (Given)
    13
    Likes (Received)
    91

    Re: Logical proof for the existence of holy god.

    Using the word "perfection" like that is just begging for trouble. It's an easy hook to latch onto and argue against, allowing one an excuse to miss the main point. Indeed, the the pure vagueness and subjectivity of the word is fodder for many of the atheists' own shoddy arguments against God's existence, such as the "perfection vs. creation" nonsense. I don't seek to offend; I'm just warning you.

    Let me try my hand at this; here's something (admittedly a very heavily edited version of a quite excerpted portion from an extremely rough draft of a work in progress--I hope the ellipses don't make it too choppy) from the book on Islam I'm writing:

    Consider what [“the forces of nature”] do to the world. They give it mechanism, organization, structure, intricacy, and what is generally seen as beauty. In other words, all their operationally defining characteristics are the marks of design. Think of a Rubix Cube. It may not be easy to solve the puzzle of precisely how the whole thing works but you can still observe with much ease that it is a designed thing. Its main characteristics are mechanism, organization, structure, intricacy, and (color-based) aesthetics. Would a Rubix Cube have simply happened to come to be somehow if no intelligent being had made it? So it is with the world, as far as we can observe. Do its laws or “forces” not provide it with a great degree of organization and structure by their mere existence? Is the world not intricate? Everyone knows it is, even the infant who has got a single glimpse out of the nursery room window. Are not many things in the way the world works—the hydrological cycle, for example—not mechanism of a sort? Is there not what most would agree is beauty in the world’s rich, lush verdure, gorgeous mountains, dazzling rivers and cataracts, and wondrous colorful caves? There might not be much meaning to any of these characteristics if they were alone (I have found that many people posing teleological theistic arguments make too singular a focus on intricacy) but they all coexist…

    Think of the arts—any of them. A painter makes a painting with the use of the three primary colors (blue, yellow, and red), using and combining them in different ways to make his intricate, organized, aesthetic work of design. An author uses the three types of sentences (statements, questions, and commands) to do the same thing when constructing a story. So it is with a composer of music using the three building blocks and shaping tools for the music (rhythm, melody, and lyrics), or an architect with his ceilings, walls and floors. So it is with gravity, the strong nuclear force, and the electro-weak force. They combine with each other in different patterns to produce the world with the same characteristics. Experience teaches us that they could not were there not an Artist behind them…

    I hear…all the time from atheists…the appeal to natural selection, an example of the self-negating idea of order from chaos, used as evidence against the notion of the world having been designed. Of what use is this argument when one could at least as easily use it as evidence of the opposite position? To start with the premise that natural selection happens because of impersonal or random things instead of being part of an ultimate purpose, and then use that premise on which to build an argument against the existence of that ultimate purpose, is to form yet one more bit of atheistic circular reasoning…

    The agnostic philosopher Bertrand Russell raised objections of his own the better part of a century ago and they are still paralleled or parroted by nontheists everywhere. These objections come from Russell’s famous essay “Why I Am Not a Christian”, in which he spends much less time on the subject of Christianity than the principal subject of God’s existence. He said on the subject of the world’s design by natural law, “Nowadays we explain the law of gravitation in a somewhat complicated fashion that Einstein has introduced...You no longer have the sort of Natural Law that you had in the Newtonian system, where, for some reason that nobody could understand, nature behaved in a uniform fashion…Where you can get down to any knowledge of what atoms actually do, you will find that they are much less subject to law than people thought, and that the laws at which you arrive are statistical averages of just the sort that would emerge from chance. There is, as we all know, a law that if you throw dice you will get double sixes only about once in thirty-six times, and we do not regard that as evidence that the fall of the dice is regulated by design; on the contrary, if the double sixes came every time we should think that there was design. The laws of nature are of that sort as regards to a great many of them. They are statistical averages such as would emerge from the laws of chance; and that makes the whole business of natural law much less impressive than it formerly was.”

    Do you see what Russell’s doing here, dear reader? He’s trying to explain one kind of law (the laws of physics) by appealing to another kind of law (the laws of mathematics). That just brings us back to square one. It’s yet more nontheistic circular reasoning at worst and utter futility at best. The material world itself offers no more actual explanation for the existence of the mathematical laws (or rather the realities they’re describing) than it does for the physical ones. I would respond to Russell with his own words from the same essay:

    “It is exactly of the same nature as the Hindu’s view, that the world rested upon an elephant, and the elephant rested upon a tortoise; and when they said, ‘How about the tortoise?’ the Indian said, ‘Suppose we change the subject.’ The argument is really no better than that.”

    On the subject of design by law Russell continues, “You are then faced with the question, Why did God issue just those natural laws and no others? If you say that he did it simply from his own good pleasure, and without any reason, you then find that there is something which is not subject to law, and so your train of natural law is interrupted.”…If God exists then by He is a supernatural Being, which means that He is not a part of nature but beyond it. Natural law, by definition, applies to nature. So of course the train of natural law ends before God: how could it not when it’s only natural law? Were God to be subject to any sort of law, it would be a supernatural law, not a natural one, and we have no reason to believe there is any supernatural equivalent to natural law.

    But by far the weakest argument Russell makes is: “If you accept the ordinary laws of science, you have to suppose that human life and life in general on this planet will die out in due course: it is merely a flash in the pan; it is a stage in the decay of the solar system; at a certain stage of decay you get the sort of conditions and temperature and so forth which are suitable to protoplasm, and there is life for a short time in the life of the whole solar system. You see in the moon the sort of thing to which the earth is tending—something dead, cold, and lifeless.” Will a Rubix Cube last forever? Do paintings not peel, fade, decay? Does the paper on which literature, scripts and poetry are written not peel, fade, decay? Do great works of architecture not eventually fall apart? Do the sounds produced by the instruments of a band not dwindle into silence? Come now! Whether or not something is designed has nothing whatsoever to do with its transience…

    In his essay “A Designer Universe?” [Scott] Weinberg admits, “I’d guess that if we were to see the hand of the designer anywhere, it would be in the fundamental principles, the final laws of nature, the book of rules that govern all natural phenomena.” But then he adds: “We don’t know the final laws yet, but as far as we have been able to see, they are utterly impersonal and quite without any special role for life.” Without any special role for life? What, then, do you call the laws making this planet form into the only one of its kind within interminable and uncrossable gulfs, if not altogether anywhere? What do you call the laws which keep this planet spinning in orbit in just the rate we need upon it if we are to remain on it and be graced by cool winds without which our weather would fall apart? Or keeping the earth in an orbit rather than allowing it to drift too close to the sun? What do you call the laws causing living things to grow and thrive? No special role for life indeed! Here’s an exercise, dear reader: walk around outside for just an hour and see how many instances you can spot of physical laws having special roles in our living…

    The atheistic scholar Kai Nielsen objects to the concept of design in the world by saying that were the world to be designed via its laws, it would not be like it is today but instead would be more like the growth of vegetation or fungus—another mere assertion. The only way that Nielsen’s argument could work is if the kind of growth in question were a natural mark of design, like the marks I listed in the previous section—but that’s not the case, now is it? Is the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel a vegetation-or-fungus-like growth? Is a computer a vegetation-or-fungus-like-growth? Is a Parcheesi board a vegetation-or-fungus-like-growth?
    Logical proof for the existence of holy god.

    Peace be to any prophets I may have mentioned above. Praised and exalted be my Maker, if I have mentioned Him. (Come to think of it praise Him anyway.)

  4. #3
    Grace Seeker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    USA
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Christianity
    Posts
    5,343
    Threads
    52
    Reputation
    22485
    Rep Power
    95
    Likes (Given)
    3
    Likes (Received)
    39

    Re: Logical proof for the existence of holy god.

    Justufy, I would say that all of which your write about bears witness to God, but I don't think you're going to find many who don't already agree with you that would see it as a "logical proof".

  5. #4
    Supreme's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    London
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    1,917
    Threads
    106
    Reputation
    5426
    Rep Power
    0
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    2

    Re: Logical proof for the existence of holy god.

    Quote Originally Posted by Justufy View Post
    When we look at the greatness and perfection of nature it seems that all has been created with intended purpose, gravitational laws, physic laws, natural laws, this goes for all natural bodies present in our universe.

    However natural bodies are unintelligent, they are incapable of deciding of these laws by themselves, however they all act towards a defined end, for example, a planet will orbit around the sun.

    The complex array of cells of the human body all have specific functions, acting towards an end is a characteristic of intelligence.

    Now that this has been said it is obvious that there exists an intelligent being that guides all that exists and dictates these laws.

    And this all men know as God.
    This reminds me of Paley's watchmaker analogy. Seeing as everything fits into place, it has to have been created. Unfortunately, such an argument has faults. Life has been evolving now through natural selection for millions of years, and that is how humans have their functions. It did not happen overnight. The Universe has also been changing now fofr billions of years- it used to be glowing hot, but now it is dark and cold. The planets that orbit stars, such as Earth, have taken billions of years to orbit such stars.

  6. Report bad ads?
  7. #5
    JaffaCake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    99
    Threads
    0
    Reputation
    366
    Rep Power
    0
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Re: Logical proof for the existence of holy god.

    A+ for effort

  8. #6
    Eric H's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    uk
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Christianity
    Posts
    3,384
    Threads
    28
    Reputation
    50195
    Rep Power
    117
    Likes (Given)
    4281
    Likes (Received)
    2591

    Re: Logical proof for the existence of holy god.

    Greetings and peace be with you Justufy;

    I feel all these things strengthen our own beliefs, and we see perfection in God’s creation. We may feel compelled to pass on our message of hope, but we can do this in loving kindness, with all the people who will still perceive differently.

    You have scored a big A for effort from our friend JaffaCake, and that might be good

    In the spirit of searching for God

    Eric
    Logical proof for the existence of holy god.

    You will never look into the eyes of anyone who does not matter to God.

  9. #7
    Ummu Sufyaan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    rock bottom
    Gender
    Female
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    7,926
    Threads
    817
    Reputation
    56377
    Rep Power
    116
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    32

    Re: Logical proof for the existence of holy god.

    This reminds me of Paley's watchmaker analogy. Seeing as everything fits into place, it has to have been created.
    absolutely.
    the functioning and timing of nature,etc is far too prefect not to attribute it to a higher being. eg, all our bodily systems work in an organized sequence,
    i cant get my head around how we just came about out of nowhere.


    Life has been evolving now through natural selection for millions of years, and that is how humans have their functions.
    what is the proof/whose is to say that during all these millions of years, plus this "natural selection" concept, human race wouldn't have died out, not evolved.
    Last edited by Ummu Sufyaan; 11-14-2009 at 08:28 AM.
    Logical proof for the existence of holy god.

    ...desperate for husnul-khitaam...


    please make dua that Allah grants me a good end (to my life). please make dua that Allah guides me.


  10. #8
    JaffaCake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    99
    Threads
    0
    Reputation
    366
    Rep Power
    0
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Re: Logical proof for the existence of holy god.

    Quote Originally Posted by Umm ul-Shaheed View Post
    the functioning and timing of nature,etc is far too prefect not to attribute it to a higher being.
    i cant get my head around how we just came about out of nowhere.
    If you replace 'nature' in that sentence with 'God' would you still be happy with it?

  11. #9
    Asiyah3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    in a temporary world
    Gender
    Female
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    2,036
    Threads
    55
    Reputation
    17023
    Rep Power
    73
    Likes (Given)
    262
    Likes (Received)
    173

    Re: Logical proof for the existence of holy god.

    Quote Originally Posted by JaffaCake View Post
    If
    Why don't you believe in God, Jaffacake?

    (Just asking of curiosity)

  12. Report bad ads?
  13. #10
    Trumble's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Buddhist
    Posts
    3,275
    Threads
    21
    Reputation
    10492
    Rep Power
    92
    Likes (Given)
    4
    Likes (Received)
    20

    Re: Logical proof for the existence of holy god.

    Quote Originally Posted by Justufy View Post
    When we look at the greatness and perfection of nature it seems that all has been created with intended purpose, gravitational laws, physic laws, natural laws, this goes for all natural bodies present in our universe.
    Speak for yourself. I see no 'intended purpose'; to me the massive degree of pain and suffering in the world is evidence of just the opposite.

    However natural bodies are unintelligent, they are incapable of deciding of these laws by themselves, however they all act towards a defined end, for example, a planet will orbit around the sun.
    Begging the question, not 'logic'. What 'defined end'? And why should anything have to 'decide' what physical laws are? The universe does what it does.

    Now that this has been said it is obvious that there exists an intelligent being that guides all that exists and dictates these laws.
    Which must have been, of course, designed and created by another being as nothing so complex as God could possibly just pop into existence by itself. A little problem which....

    And this all men know as God
    is solved simply by covering up the "Insoluable Logical Mess" label on the bottle with one that reads, simply, "'God"'. Neat.

  14. #11
    JaffaCake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    99
    Threads
    0
    Reputation
    366
    Rep Power
    0
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Re: Logical proof for the existence of holy god.

    Quote Originally Posted by _muslim_ View Post
    Why don't you believe in God, Jaffacake?
    Same reason that you don't believe I have a pet dragon.

  15. #12
    Ummu Sufyaan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    rock bottom
    Gender
    Female
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    7,926
    Threads
    817
    Reputation
    56377
    Rep Power
    116
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    32

    Re: Logical proof for the existence of holy god.

    If you replace 'nature' in that sentence with 'God' would you still be happy with it?
    im sorry, i genuinely dont understand your question. care to clarify?
    Logical proof for the existence of holy god.

    ...desperate for husnul-khitaam...


    please make dua that Allah grants me a good end (to my life). please make dua that Allah guides me.


  16. #13
    JaffaCake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    99
    Threads
    0
    Reputation
    366
    Rep Power
    0
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Re: Logical proof for the existence of holy god.

    OK. If I take your statement and replace the subject (function of nature) with God it reads:

    "God is far too perfect not to attribute it to a higher being."

    Do you agree with that statement and if not, why not?

  17. #14
    Eric H's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    uk
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Christianity
    Posts
    3,384
    Threads
    28
    Reputation
    50195
    Rep Power
    117
    Likes (Given)
    4281
    Likes (Received)
    2591

    Re: Logical proof for the existence of holy god.

    Greetings and peace be with you JaffaCake,

    Quote Originally Posted by JaffaCake View Post
    OK. If I take your statement and replace the subject (function of nature) with God it reads:

    "God is far too perfect not to attribute it to a higher being."

    Do you agree with that statement and if not, why not?
    I guess atheists find their solutions through logic and reason, and we struggle with this thing called faith. So mostly on faith, we trust that God cannot be attributed to any higher being.

    Either God exists fully and totally, or there is no God, if he exists fully and totally, then we search for the greatest God, the one above all else, who created all things.

    I think we all struggle with faith in God, if we had total faith, we would obey all God’s commands, and not sin.

    I guess people in faith are often not a good advert when we say God is on our side in times of conflict.

    In the spirit of searching for God

    Eric
    Logical proof for the existence of holy god.

    You will never look into the eyes of anyone who does not matter to God.

  18. Report bad ads?
  19. #15
    Supreme's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    London
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    1,917
    Threads
    106
    Reputation
    5426
    Rep Power
    0
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    2

    Re: Logical proof for the existence of holy god.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric H View Post
    Greetings and peace be with you JaffaCake,



    I guess atheists find their solutions through logic and reason, and we struggle with this thing called faith. So mostly on faith, we trust that God cannot be attributed to any higher being.
    It's a common misconception that atheists are more rational and 'scientific', and hence more intelligent, than theists.

  20. #16
    جوري's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    من ارض الكنانة
    Gender
    Female
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    27,760
    Threads
    1260
    Reputation
    246638
    Rep Power
    231
    Likes (Given)
    5578
    Likes (Received)
    6288

    Re: Logical proof for the existence of holy god.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric H View Post

    I guess atheists find their solutions through logic and reason,
    I disagree with that statement.. There is nothing logical or a result of reason as far as the majority of atheists are concerned!
    They merely substitute a set of beliefs for another very odd set of beliefs that the majority can't even classify under lucid or coherent!

    all the best
    Logical proof for the existence of holy god.

    Text without context is pretext
    If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him


  21. #17
    IAmZamzam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Fort Smith, Arkansas
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    1,480
    Threads
    50
    Reputation
    7394
    Rep Power
    67
    Likes (Given)
    13
    Likes (Received)
    91

    Re: Logical proof for the existence of holy god.

    It's like I'm not even here. Did no one even read what I said?

    Same reason that you don't believe I have a pet dragon.
    This will be about the one billionth time in my life I've had to say this to someone (seemingly literally to me): the next time you complain about why people lump atheists into stereotypes about being morally wretched, consider what disservice and disgrace you do to your fellow atheists and what hypocrisy you do to yourself whenever you feed those stereotypes with your cliched ploy of responding to serious intellectual arguments with insulting analogies which amount to five-year-old-level mockery. What infantile insulting cliche is next after that one? Santa Claus = God? The "leprechauns in your attic" analogy? The "Flying Spaghetti Monster"? If you want us to take you seriously, at least put some effort into pretending to take us seriously. It's a two-way street.
    Last edited by IAmZamzam; 11-14-2009 at 06:21 PM.
    Logical proof for the existence of holy god.

    Peace be to any prophets I may have mentioned above. Praised and exalted be my Maker, if I have mentioned Him. (Come to think of it praise Him anyway.)

  22. #18
    mariyyah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    122
    Threads
    8
    Reputation
    610
    Rep Power
    61
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Re: Logical proof for the existence of holy god.

    This is the proof



    Allah - The One and Only God

    The essence of godhood is authority, whether it is conceived as sovereignty of a supernatural kind over the whole universe, or on the basis that man is bound by God's law in his worldly life and that all of His injunctions are to be complied with because they emanate from Him.

    To Him is due the primal origin of the heavens and the earth. How can He have a son when He had no consort? He it is Who created all things, and He alone has full knowledge of all things; That is God, your Lord! No god there is but He, the Creator of all things; Then give your worship to Him; And He it is Who looks after the safety and well-being of all. (Quran 6:102-103)

    Lord - Concept and History
    A perspective and analysis based on the Holy Quran on the concept of Lord God(Rabb in Arabic) in Islam and some other religions and how it was understood by various nations in history.
    The Most Beautiful Names belong to Allah

    The most beautiful names belong to God: so call on Him by them; but shun
    such men as use profanity in His names: for what they do, they will soon be requited. (The Holy Quran, 7:180)


    Concept of Lord God by the Jews and Christians

    After Pharaoh's people, the next in historical order are the Israelites and those people who adopted the Jewish religion or Christianity. In their case, there can obviously be no question about their either not acknowledging the existence of God or not believing in His being the Ilah and the Rabb. The Qur'an itself affirms their belief in Him on the point and the question which therefore arises is of the particular error for which they were characterized in the Qur'an as "those who went astray". (Quran 1:7)

    A brief answer is:

    Say (O' Muhammed): "O' people of the Book: Do not exaggerate concerning your faith, and adopt not the wrong notions of those who have gone astray before you, who misled many others, and themselves too strayed from the straight path." (Quran 5:77)

    From this, one may conclude that, in essence, the Jews and Christians too were guilty of the same error into which others had fallen earlier, and that in their case this arose out of exaggerated piety. Let us go into the matter in some detail, with the help of the Qur'an:

    (i) And the Jews said: "Uzair (Ezra) is son of God, while the Christians said, "Isa (Jesus) is son of God." (Quran 9:30)

    (ii) It was kufr on the part of Christians, to say that God was the same as Jesus son of Mary; though Jesus had himself said, for a fact, "O' sons of Israel, give your 'ibadah to Allah. Who is also your Rabb and my Rabb." (Quran 5:72)

    (iii) Verily those who said 'that God is one of three, committed kufr, for there is but one Ilah and there is no ilah but He. (Quran 5:73)


    (iv) And there will come a time (the Day of Judgment) when God will ask "O' Jesus, son of Mary, did you tell people to take you and your mother as ilahs besides Myself?" to which Jesus will reply, "Glory be to you! How could I have dared say that which I had no right to utter!" (Quran 5:116)

    (v) It is not for any person that, after being given the Book, and being endowed with hikmah [Literally, this word means wisdom; but when used in reference to a Prophet, it means that special wisdom which comes automatically after investment with the office of Prophethood, and which enables the Prophet to understand and expound the implications, and requirements of the Divine Injunctions. A. A. Maududi] and invested with Prophethood, he should go about telling people to give up God and instead give their allegiance and 'ibadah to him. Far more fitting it is that he should say: "Believe firmly in Allah as the Rabb (in every sense of the word), as you find it written in His Book, and as you learn of yourselves and teach others." Nor, again, is it for a prophet to tell the people to regard the angels and the prophets as rabbs. Would he enjoin kufr to you after you have become Muslims? (Quran 3:79-80)

    What we learn from the relevant verses is that the first error of the Jews and Christians was to raise their Prophets, and saints, and the angel, etc., to the status of divinity out of exaggerated regard for them, to believe them to have a say in the ordering of the universe and its affairs, to worship and address their prayers to them, treat them as partners in rububiyyah and in godhood in the supernatural sense, and to believe that they could remit their sins and come to their rescue and protect them from misfortune and disasters.

    Their second error lay in their making even their scribes and hermits into rabbs, besides God (cf.9:31). In other words, the people whose real function was to expound God's law to others, and to reform the people morally and spiritually to make their conduct conform to Divine precepts were gradually assigned authority to determine, on their own, what was to be treated as forbidden and what as permitted, without reference to what was said in the Book. They could forbid any practices they did not approve, and institute any others they fancied. And in this way both Jews and Christians fell into the same two basic errors as that into which the people of Prophets Nuh and Ibrahim (on whom both be peace), the 'Aadites and the Thamud and the people of Madyan and others had fallen earlier. Like them, they too made the angels and their religious leaders to be partners with God in Rububiyyah in the supernatural sense, and in moral, cultural and political spheres too. And so they began to take their cultural, economic, moral and political principles from human beings, disregarding the Divine injunctions, until they reached a stage about which the Qur'an says:

    Have you noticed the people who were given a portion of the Book of God, but who (instead of making it the basis for their conduct), believed in jibt and taghoot? (Quran 4:51)

    Say (O' Muhammad): "Shall I tell you who are worse as to their ultimate fate with Allah than even the fasiqs [A fasiq, according to the Qur'an is one who breaks his covenant with Allah, who severs the ties between Him and His creatures and between man and man, and who creates mischief upon earth (cf. note in Tafhim-ul-Qur'an. Vol.1. p.61. relative to 2-27-2). A. A. Maududi]. It is those who drew the curse of God upon them, those who invited His wrath, and of whom many were turned into apes and swine by His Command, and who gave their worship to taghoot; they are the lowest in degree, and the farthest astray from the straight path." (Quran 5:60)

    The word jibt is a comprehensive term for all myths and superstitions, embracing such superstitious things as magic, the art of the occult, black magic, necromancy, witch-craft, soothsaying, divination, the belief in talismans or lucky stones or unlucky colors or numbers or natural phenomena, etc., or in the influence of the heavenly bodies on human affairs. As for taghoot, this term applies to every person, or group of persons, or organization or institution which, instead of submitting to God and His Injunctions, rebels against them and virtually sets up himself or itself as god instead, or is so set up by people. So when the Jews and Christians committed the two errors indicated above, the result of the first was that different kinds of superstitious beliefs took hold of their minds and of the second that their scribes and hermits, etc., gradually came to assume the same right to tell people what to do and what not as had been presumConcept of Lord God in Islam

    Allah - The One and Only God - Lord - Concept and History
    Concept of Lord God in Islam

    The foregoing detailed exposition of the misguided conceptions of various pre-Islamic people make it patently clear that from earliest times to the revelation of the Qur'an, none of those whom it mentions as the transgressors, the misguided, and the astray, actually denied the existence of God, or His being the Rabb and the ilah. All, however, went wrong in much the same ways in dividing the attributes of rububiyyah, in its five different senses, into two separate compartments.

    Insofar as such attributes of Allah as His being the Cherisher, the Provider, and the Protector and Helper of the creatures in the transcendental sense were concerned, the people regarded them as something apart from the rest. And, although in this sphere they did regard Allah as the Supreme Rabb, they also believed that the angels and various gods, the genii, and invisible forces, the stars, and other heavenly bodies, the Prophets and saints and other holy men, also had different shares in this rububiyyah.

    As for the remaining attributes, namely, Allah's being the Supreme Sovereign, the Fountainhead of authority, the Supreme Law-giver, and the Supreme Lord of all creation etc., the people either assigned these roles wholly to particular human beings or, while assigning them to God in theory, in practice treated the entire rububiyyah in moral, cultural, and political spheres as vesting in these beings.

    It was for the task of removal of both these types of misconceptions that there were ordained all the different Prophets from time to time (may peace be upon them) and, finally, Allah sent Muhammad (peace be upon him), as His last Prophet. All of the Prophets called to man to believe that there was but one Rabb, that is, Allah, in all of the various senses of the word, and that rububiyyah was not divisible nor was any portion of it available to any creature. The management and control of the universe, they emphasized, was centered is One Authority only, the Authority Who alone had created it, entirely to His own Grand Design and purpose, and Who exercised both de jure and de facto rule over all its affairs, and no-one had any share either in the creation or the running of the universe. As the Center of all authority, God alone was and is the Rabb, in all the senses of the word, both in transcendental matters and the temporal affairs of men. He alone was and is worthy of all worship, of being made the focus of all adoration and prayer. He alone listens to all prayers and He alone is worthy of our reliance and capable of providing for the needs of all too. He alone is at the same time the King, the Lord of the Universe and the source of all law and authority, and He alone has therefore the right to lay down what is right and what is wrong and what ought or ought not to be done. It is in the very nature of things a misconceived notion to think of rububiyyah as something which could be split up into compartments. It is an essential, and exclusive attribute of Allah and; hence, obviously and necessarily indivisible.

    This call of the various Prophets (on whom be peace), is brought out in the Qur'an in many a place, e.g.:

    Verily, your Rabb is Allah (alone)-He Who created the heavens and the earth in six days, and then established Himself on the Mighty Throne; He it is Who draws the night as a veil over the day, each seeking the other in rapid succession; the sun and the moon, and the stars are all subservient to His Law and Commands; Verily, it is patent that all creation is His, and authority too vests in Him, and Most Blessed is he, the Lord of all the Worlds. (Quran 7:54)

    Ask them (O Prophet), "Who is it who provides sustenance for you from the heavens and the earth? Is it He in Whose power are hearing and sight, and Who brings forth the living from the dead and the dead from the living, and Who rules and regulates all affairs?" (If you ask) they will say, "It is Allah (Who does all this)." Ask them, then, "Wherefore, then, do you not fear Him (and change your ways)?" (Say): "Such is Allah, your real Rabb and true, and, apart from Truth, what remains but error, and so wherefore do you get turned astray?’ (Quran 10:31,32)

    He (it is Who) created the heavens and the earth in Truth; He it is Who makes the night overlap the day and the day overlap the night, and made, the son and the moon subservient (to His Law), each one following a course till an appointed time … such is God, your Rabb; His is the Kingdom and there is no ilah but He; and why, then, do you keep getting turned away? (Quran 39:5-6)

    Allah it is Who made the night for you that you may find rest and peace in it, and the day in which you are enabled to see ... Such is Allah, your Rabb Creator of every thing. There is no ilah but He; so why are you deluded into straying? ... Allah it is Who made the earth a place for you to live and rest upon, and the sky a roof over you, and gave you shapes; and good shapes at that, and provided for your provision good and wholesome food; such is Allah, your Rabb, and, so, blessed be He, the Lord of all the Worlds. He alone is the Living (One); there is no ilah, but He and to Him alone then address all your prayers. (Quran 40:61-65)

    And Allah (it was Who) created you from clay…He merges night into day and day into night, and made the sun and the moon obey His Law, each following its course until an appointed timer Such is Allah, your Rabb; in Him vests all Sovereignty, while those; on call to besides him possess no such authority; and if you call upon them, they hear not your call and if they did they would not make any reply and, on the Day of Judgement, they will (to you discomfiture), (but) repudiate (and disown) your association of them with God. (Quran 35:11,13-14)

    And to Him belongs all that is in the heavens and the earth, and all are abjectly obedient and subservient to Him..., He propounds to you a similitude from your own (experience): Has any of your slaves a share in owning any of the things which We have bestowed upon you? Do they equal right, with you in the ownership and use of these things? Do you fear them as you fear your equals? Thus do we expound arguments to point the way to reality to those with wisdom and understanding, but wrong-doers merely follow their own baseless notions… Therefore (O' Prophet, and those of you who believe in him), set your face steadily and truly to the Faith; establish God's handiwork according to the pattern on which He has read, mankind; no change let there be in the work wrought by Him. This is the straight and correct road, but many among mankind know this not. (Quran 30:26,28,20,30)

    And, (the wrongdoers) did not appreciate God (and His attributes) in proper measure, and (they will see that) on the Day of judgment He will hold the earth in his fist, and the heavens will be rolled-up in His right hand; blessed is He and far above the (supposed) partners they associate with Him. (Quran 39:67).

    And praise all is due to Allah alone, the Rabb of the heavens and the Rabb of the earth, and Rabb of all the Worlds; and to Him belongs all Greatness and Glory throughout the heavens and the earth; and He is exalted in Power, and the All-Wise. (Quran 45:36,37)

    He is the Rabb of the heavens and the earth and whatever is between them; so give your 'ibadah to Him (O' Prophet) and remain steadfast in your worship of Him; (and) do yen know of aught like Him? (Quran 19:65)

    And Allah (alone) knows the hidden realities of the heavens and the earth, and to Him are referred all matters, so give your 'ibadah to Him (alone), and rely not upon any but Him. (Quran 11:123)

    He is the Rabb of the East and of the West; No ilah there is but He, and so entrust all your affairs unto Him (alone). (Quran 73:9)

    Verily this brotherhood of yours (that is, of all the prophets) is a single brotherhood, and I am your Rabb, wherefore give your 'ibadah to Me. Men have apportioned rububiyyah and the duty of 'ibadah on their own (without any sanction from Us), and all of them will, ultimately, return to Us. (Quran 21:92-93)

    Obey that which has been sent down to you from your Rabb, and do not obey others besides Him (as supposed protectors or guardians). (Quran 7:3)

    Say (O Prophet): "O people of the Book: Pledge your creed to that which is common between us and you, that we do not give our 'ibadah to any but Allah and that we associate none with Him, and that we do not asks any human being a rabb besides Him. (Quran 3:64)

    Say (O Prophet): I seek refuge with the (Sole) Rabb of all mankind, the (Sole) Monarch over all mankind, and the (Sole) Ilah of all." (Quran 114:1-3)

    So whosoever looks forth to meeting his Rabb let him do pious deeds, and associate not any with his worship of Him. (Quran 18:110)

    The foregoing verses bring out as clearly as possible that the Holy Qur'an uses rububiyyah as exactly synonymous with sovereignty, and the concept of Rabb it presents is that Allah is the Absolute Monarch of all creation, and its sole Lord and Master, and, as such:

    He is our Cherisher and Provider and Sustainer, and of all that constitutes creation; It is He Who looks after all our needs, governs all our affairs, and is alone worthy of our entrusting all our affairs to His discretion; It is by virtue of this very attribute that faith. in Him is the only right basis on which to build up the structure of human life in proper manner, and attachment only to His central Personage is capable of bringing together different individuals and groups and forming them into an Ummah.

    He alone is worthy of the 'ibadah, and submission, and worship, of all humanity and other creatures; and He alone is the Lord, Master, and Ruler, of ourselves, and all else besides.

    The pagans, whether Arabs or others, have always committed the error, which continues even today, of splitting up the comprehensive concept of rububiyyah into its five facets as if they could exist separately or be vested in different beings. The Qur'an lives most cogent and irrefutable arguments that the Universe is one, and that there is no room in it at all for Supreme Authority and rububiyyah vesting in any but the same Being. The very fact that the universe is subject to one supreme law shows that rububiyyah is reserved solely for Allah, Who alone brought the universe into existence. Therefore, whoever attributes any portion of rububiyyah to any but Him seeks but to depart from or ignore the ultimate fundamental Reality, to turn away from the Reality of the universe, to rebel against Truth, and, by thus going against what exists, only brings loss to himself and ultimate disaster.


    ed by those who were open rebels against God.

  23. #19
    cat eyes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Ireland
    Gender
    Female
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    2,790
    Threads
    57
    Reputation
    15905
    Rep Power
    71
    Likes (Given)
    6
    Likes (Received)
    5

    Re: Logical proof for the existence of holy god.


    I Have to agree with you brother supreme. my brother is well up to date with science because he dose not believe in the existence of god but if only these atheists knew that muslims were the first ever scientists and they proved the existence of god
    Logical proof for the existence of holy god.




  24. Report bad ads?
  25. #20
    Supreme's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    London
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    1,917
    Threads
    106
    Reputation
    5426
    Rep Power
    0
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    2

    Re: Logical proof for the existence of holy god.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yahya Sulaiman View Post
    It's like I'm not even here. Did no one even read what I said?



    This will be about the one billionth time in my life I've had to say this to someone (seemingly literally to me): the next time you complain about why people lump atheists into stereotypes about being morally wretched, consider what disservice and disgrace you do to your fellow atheists and what hypocrisy you do to yourself whenever you feed those stereotypes with your cliched ploy of responding to serious intellectual arguments with insulting analogies which amount to five-year-old-level mockery. What infantile insulting cliche is next after that one? Santa Claus = God? The "leprechauns in your attic" analogy? The "Flying Spaghetti Monster"? If you want us to take you seriously, at least put some effort into pretending to take us seriously. It's a two-way street.
    You pretty much stole the words from my mouth. Such demeaning and petty comparisons and sterotypical views of theists are absoloutely unwelcome and untrue.


  26. Hide
Page 1 of 21 1 2 3 11 ... Last
Hey there! Logical proof for the existence of holy god. Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, we remember exactly what you've read, so you always come right back where you left off. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and share your thoughts. Logical proof for the existence of holy god.
Sign Up

Similar Threads

  1. A proof for the existence of angels
    By selsebil in forum Aqeedah
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-12-2011, 03:51 PM
  2. Proof for the existence of hereafter?
    By greenvalley in forum The Hereafter
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 01-19-2011, 10:10 AM
  3. Simple, logical arguments to prove the existence of God
    By crayon in forum Comparative religion
    Replies: 187
    Last Post: 02-27-2010, 09:19 PM
  4. An Amazing Proof for the Existence of God
    By Questfortruth in forum Comparative religion
    Replies: 70
    Last Post: 11-29-2008, 06:49 AM
  5. Will atheist really get the proof of God's existence?
    By gang4 in forum Comparative religion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-19-2008, 03:37 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
create