Quran VS Bible , a thoroughly comparative study,arranged by items

God almighty's shaving of people in Islam and Bible


Hadith - Mishkat, Narrator AbuHurayrah , transmitted by Tirmidhi and Darimi

Allah's Messenger said, "The inhabitants of Paradise are hairless, beardless and have black eyes,
their youth does not pass away and their garments do not wear out."

Thus The inhabitants are automatically hairless and beardless upon entering Jannah without God having to Physically shave them.
Kun fayakoon - Be and it is. God Almighy will it and the thing comes into being



Whereas in the Bible ,it Portrays God Almighty as a Barber like people cutting hairs
It says in

Isaiah 7:20

In that day the Lord will use a razor

http://out.com/topfive/images/products/razors_002.jpg

They used those cut-throats then as They didnt have safety razors back in those time


hired from beyond the River--the king of Assyria--to shave your head and the hair
of your legs, and to take off your beards also.

So he is going to shave the head & beard and also hair of the legs(lol , doesnt say how high ) with a razor . You tell that to a barber today and he would ask you
" Dont you know about Immac or Veet ,you know those ads you see on TV everyday . So hence Can you imagine God Almighty taking a razor trying to shave the legs ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Airforce

God almighty's shaving of people in Islam and Bible


Hadith - Mishkat, Narrator AbuHurayrah , transmitted by Tirmidhi and Darimi

Allah's Messenger said, "The inhabitants of Paradise are hairless, beardless and have black eyes,
their youth does not pass away and their garments do not wear out."

Thus The inhabitants are automatically hairless and beardless upon entering Jannah without God having to Physically shave them.
Kun fayakoon - Be and it is. God Almighy will it and the thing comes into being



Whereas in the Bible ,it Portrays God Almighty as a Barber like people cutting hairs
It says in

Isaiah 7:20

In that day the Lord will use a razor

https://www.islamicboard.com/

They used those cut-throats then as They didnt have safety razors back in those time


hired from beyond the River--the king of Assyria--to shave your head and the hair
of your legs, and to take off your beards also.

So he is going to shave the head & beard and also hair of the legs(lol , doesnt say how high ) with a razor . You tell that to a barber today and he would ask you
" Dont you know about Immac or Veet ,you know those ads you see on TV everyday . So hence Can you imagine God Almighty taking a razor trying to shave the legs ?

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It amuses me how many of these turds write abominable crap about Muslims on youtube and false uninformed videos about stuff they have no idea about, forgetting in the process to browse the pages of their books, which are filled with absurd fantasy, comic relief, not to mention filled to the brim with scatology!

Do Angels eat ?

Bible says

The angels who visited Abraham ate food!

And the LORD appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre, as he sat at the door of his tent in the heat of the day. He lifted up his eyes and looked, and behold, three men were standing in front of him. When he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them and bowed himself to the earth and said, "O Lord, if I have found favor in your sight, do not pass by your servant. Let a little water be brought, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree, while I bring a morsel of bread, that you may refresh yourselves, and after that you may pass on--since you have come to your servant." So they said, "Do as you have said." 6And Abraham went quickly into the tent to Sarah and said, "Quick! Three seahs of fine flour! Knead it, and make cakes." And Abraham ran to the herd and took a calf, tender and good, and gave it to a young man, who prepared it quickly. Then he took curds and milk and the calf that he had prepared, and set it before them. And he stood by them under the tree while they ate. (Genesis 18:1-8)


"They" means even God ate food .



Quran says :

The story of Prophet Abraham in Quran also indicates that the angels have no need of food. When angels, in the form of men, visited Prophet Abraham to give him the good tidings of the birth of a son, he killed a fatted calf in their honour. They refused to eat and he became fearful, it was then that they revealed themselves as angels. (Quran 51:26-28)

Trinity P.5

Why 3 ?

One of the issue comes to the mind regarding the trinity besides the issues been mentioned, is the question, why it is suggested to be trinity?why not duality in the Godhead why not even more than three?

That is not a puzzle….. the reason behind such choice of trinity,lies behind the obsession with the number 3 in ancient times…… from the very ancient times the number 3 is suggested to be essential, perfect, substantial, solid, complete and even divine !

The number 3 is a very mystical and spiritual number featured in many folktales (three wishes, three guesses, three little pigs, three bears, three billy goats gruff). In ancient Babylon the three primary gods were Anu, Bel (Baal), and Ea, representing Heaven, Earth, and the Abyss. Similarly, there were three aspects to the Egyptian sun god: Khepri (rising), Re (midday), and Atum (setting)
• 3-faced goddess in Greek Mythology: Hecate
• 3 Gorgons-(snake-haired sisters in Greek mythology): Stheno, Euryale, Medusa are sometimes depicted as having wings of gold, brazen claws, and the tusks of boars. Medusa is the only one of the gorgons that is mortal.
• 3 Roman Furies (female personifications of vengeance) that were called the Erinyes (the Angry Ones) or Eumenides by the Ancient Greeks (Orestes called them the Solemn Ones, or the Kindly Ones): Alecto ("unceasing")~ Megaera ("grudging")~ Tisiphone ("avenging murder").
• 3-headed dog that guarded the gate to Hades in Greek Mythology: Cerberus
• 3 ancient Greek Harpies: Aello, Ocypete, and Celaeno.
• 3 Greek Fates (Moirai, Moirés): Clotho~ Lachesis~ Atropos (sometimes referred to as the 3 spinners).
• 3 Roman Fates: Decima~ Nona (goddesses of birth)~ Morta (goddess of death)
• 3 Roman Graces- (in Greek mythology called the Charities and according to the Spartans, Cleta was the third): Aglaia~ Euphrosyne~ Thalia.
• 3 parts to a Chimera: Head of a lion~ Body of a goat~ Tail of a snake
• 3 forms of Odin in Eddic Mythology: Har~ Jafnhar~ Thridi
• 3 mysterious figures amongst Norse gods: Hoenir~ Lodurr~ Mimir
• 3 monstrous offspring by Loki and Angroboda: Fenrir~ Hel~ Jormungund
• 3 hags possessing immense power in Norse Myth: Urdr~ Verdandi~ Skuld
• 3 Norns of Norse Mythology who sat beneath the World Tree Yggdrasil
• The Maya believed 3 stars in the Orion Constellation (Alnitak~ Saiph~ Rigel) were arranged by the gods as a triangular hearth, enclosing the smoke of the fire creation - the nebula.
(wikipedia)

If we visit the number 3 inthe bible :

It is obvious that the writers of the bible were obsessed as the ancient world by the number three ,as The number 3 is mentioned 523 times in the bible !!!
Just a sample of such obsession which cast a doubt on the origin of the bible

All the following phrases are mentioned in the old testament:

-a three-day journey
-Three days later
-three months later
-Within three days Pharaoh will lift up your head and restore you to your position
-On my head were three baskets of bread.
-And he put them all in custody for three days.
-Three men going up to God at Bethel will meet you there. One will be carrying three young goats, -another three loaves of bread
-Let us take a three-day journey into the desert to offer sacrifices to the LORD our God
-No one could see anyone else or leave his place for three days
-Three times a year all the men are to appear before the Sovereign LORD.
-For three years you are to consider it forbidden ; it must not be eaten.
-So they set out from the mountain of the LORD and traveled for three days. The ark of the -covenant of the LORD went before them during those three days to find them a place to rest.
-Then the LORD opened the donkey's mouth, and she said to Balaam, "What have I done to you to make you beat me these three times?"
-I summoned you to curse my enemies, but you have blessed them these three times.
-and when they had traveled for three days in the Desert of Etham, they camped at Marah.
-At the end of every three years, bring all the tithes of that year's produce and store it in your towns,
-Give three on this side of the Jordan and three in Canaan as cities of refuge.
-Build roads to them and divide into three parts the land the LORD your God is giving you
-Hide yourselves there three days until they return, and then go on your way."
-When they left, they went into the hills and stayed there three days
-From Hebron Caleb drove out the three Anakites—Sheshai, Ahiman and Talmai
-Appoint three men from each tribe. I will send them out to make a survey of the land
-He replied, "Out of the eater, something to eat; out of the strong, something sweet." For three days they could not give the answer.
-Joseph said to him. "The three branches are three days.
-As for the donkeys you lost three days ago, do not worry about them; they have been found.
-He ate and was revived, for he had not eaten any food or drunk any water for three days and three nights.

Etc etc etc…………………………….

Being Jews and again obsessed by the number 3 ,the writers of the new testament ….made Jesus as lived 3 decades, and his ministry 3 years ,he was one in the middle of the 3 been crucified ,and he stayed 3 days and 3 nights in his grave….

What a coincide !!

No ,no, it is not a coincide,they are just been influenced by the literally style that was common in such ancient times…and even today…the number 3 has significance to lots of people in our world…..

Another question..

Why those three (father,son,holy spirit)?why not others?

well,The father has to be included in any Godhead system ,isn’t it?
The king messiah (as depicted in the old testament) is the most significant character after God,the new testament writers developed the character ,ignored his supposed Earthly role,and instead inventing a heavenly role for him,to escape the accuse of the messianic failure to fulfill the concrete promises he had to fulfill….

But a Godhead with 2 members is incomplete,so they have to add another member to reach the perfect number(3)……..and the member (holy spirit) was the best candidate …he is powerful even more powerful than the Shekhinah… more important the concept that after the coming of the Messiah the Holy Spirit will be poured out upon all humanity gives clues why in the New Testament such great importance is given to the Holy Spirit and why it was the successful candidate after the messiah to join the godhead !!!.

..........................................

well that was the last part regarding the trinity right now..more related comes later in the right time and place..

......peace

Item.6

God’s agents:

1-Agent’s of communication:

Communication takes two forms,either sending or receiving …..

Man to God communication is simple and direct:

[2:186] When My servants ask you about Me, I am always near. I answer their prayers when they pray to Me.

God to man communication :

[042:051] It is not fitting for a man that God should speak to him except by inspiration, or from behind a veil, or by the sending of a messenger to reveal, with God's permission, what God wills: for He is Most High, Most Wise.

1-A human receives directly divine inspiration which neither confined to receiving a message or laws nor mere prophets as the receivers ….. eg; [020:038] "When We inspired your mother with that which We inspired. `Put him in the ark, and place in into the river, then the river will cast it on to the shore, and there one who is an enemy to ME and also an enemy to him will take him up.' And I wrapped thee with love from ME; and this I did that thou mightest be reared before MY eye;
the mother of Moses(peace be upon him) was a normal person but received inspiration (divine ideas )

non-humans recieves revelation?

[016:068] And thy Lord inspired the bee(seems to denote plural), saying: Choose thou habitations in the hills and in the trees and in that which they thatch;

[005:031] Then God sent a raven, who scratched the ground, to show him how to hide the shame of his brother. "Woe is me!" said he; "Was I not even able to be as this raven, and to hide the shame of my brother?" then he became full of regrets-
[006:130] 'O company of jinn and men ! Did not Messengers come to you from among yourselves who related to you MY Signs and who warned you of the meeting of this your day ?' They will say, `We bear witness against ourselves.' And the worldly life deceived them. And they will bear witness against themselves that they were disbelievers.

2-Behind a veil:
[007:143] When Moses came to the place appointed by Us, and his Lord addressed him, He said: "O my Lord! show (Thyself) to me, that I may look upon thee." God said: "By no means canst thou see Me (direct); But look upon the mount; if it abide in its place, then shalt thou see Me." When his Lord manifested His glory on the Mount, He made it as dust. And Moses fell down in a swoon. When he recovered his senses he said: "Glory be to Thee! to Thee I turn in repentance, and I am the first to believe."

3-Sending messeneger:
when a messeneger talks to you with what God has revealed to him, it is God talks to you but indirectly…..

2- Agents as bearer of glad tidings and warnings:

they could be prophets:
[002:213] Mankind were one community, and Allah sent (unto them) prophets as bearers of good tidings and as warners, and revealed therewith the Scripture with the truth that it might judge between mankind concerning that wherein they differed.
[007:188] Say: "I have no power over any good or harm to myself except as God willeth. If I had knowledge of the unseen, I should have multiplied all good, and no evil should have touched me: I am but a warner, and a bringer of glad tidings to those who have faith."

Or Angels

[003:039] And the angels called to him as he stood praying in the chamber, `ALLAH gives thee glad tidings of Yahya, who shall testify to the truth of a word from ALLAH - noble and chaste and a Prophet, from among the righteous.
[003:045] (And remember) when the angels said: O Mary! Lo! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a word from him, whose name is the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, illustrious in the world and the Hereafter, and one of those brought near (unto Allah)
[011:069] There came Our messengers to Abraham with glad tidings. They said, "Peace!" He answered, "Peace!" and hastened to enter[011:070] But when he saw their hands went not towards the (meal), he felt some mistrust of them, and conceived a fear of them. They said: "Fear not: We have been sent against the people of Lut."tain them with a roasted calf.[011:071] His wife, standing there, let out a laughter. We gave her the good news of (a son) Ishaq and after Ishaq, Yaqub.

One thing to note, Angels would appear in human form :

[006:009] If We had sent down an angel, We would have sent him as a human.
[019:017] She drew the curtain behind her and there, We sent Our spirit (angel) to her! It appeared before her in the figure of a full grown man.

‘Umar ibn al-Khattab said:
As we sat one day with the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him and give him peace), a man in pure white clothing and jet black hair came to us, without a trace of travelling upon him, though none of us knew him. He sat down before the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) bracing his knees against his, resting his hands on his legs, and said: "Muhammad, tell me about Islam." The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him and give him peace) said: "Islam is to testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and to perform the prayer, give zakat, fast in Ramadan, and perform the pilgrimage to the House if you can find a way."
He said: "You have spoken the truth," and we were surprised that he should ask and then confirm the answer. Then he said: "Tell me about true faith (iman)," and the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) answered: "It is to believe in Allah, His angels, His inspired Books, His messengers, the Last Day, and in destiny, its good and evil." "You have spoken the truth," he said, "Now tell me about the perfection of faith (ihsan)," and the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) answered: "It is to worship Allah as if you see Him, and if you see Him not, He nevertheless sees you." The hadith continues to where ‘Umar said: Then the visitor left. I waited a long while, and the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said to me, "Do you know, ‘Umar, who was the questioner?" and I replied, "Allah and His messenger know best." He said,
"It was Gabriel, who came to you to teach you your religion" (Sahih Muslim, 1.37: hadith 8).

Wind:
[025:048] And He it is Who sends the winds as heralds of glad tidings, going before His mercy, and We send down pure water from the sky,-


3:Agents of punishment:

as people didn’t listen to warning,the following procedure would be varied agents of punishment:
natural disasters:

water

[010:073] They rejected Him, but We delivered him, and those with him, in the Ark, and We made them inherit (the earth), while We overwhelmed in the flood those who rejected Our Signs. Then see what was the end of those who were warned (but heeded not)!
[008:054] (Deeds) after the manner of the people of Pharaoh and those before them": They treated as false the Signs of their Lord: so We destroyed them for their crimes, and We drowned the people of Pharaoh: for they were all oppressors and wrong- doers.
[34:15] Sheba's homeland used to be a marvel, with two gardens on the right and the left. Eat from your Lord's provisions, and be appreciative of Him - good land, and a forgiving Lord. [34:16] They turned away and, consequently, we poured upon them a disastrous flood

Wind:
plays a double role, the role of glad tiding mentioned before, now the role of punishment

[041:016] So We sent against them a furious Wind through days of disaster, that We might give them a taste of a Penalty of humiliation in this life; but the Penalty of a Hereafter will be more humiliating still: and they will find no help.

[010:022] He it is Who enableth you to traverse through land and sea; so that ye even board ships;- they sail with them with a favourable wind, and they rejoice thereat; then comes a stormy wind and the waves come to them from all sides, and they think they are being overwhelmed: they cry unto God, sincerely offering (their) duty unto Him saying, "If thou dost deliver us from this, we shall truly show our gratitude!"

[046:021] Mention (Hud) one of 'Ad's (own) brethren: Behold, he warned his people about the winding Sand-tracts: but there have been warners before him and after him: "Worship ye none other than God: Truly I fear for you the Penalty of a Mighty Day."
[046:024] Then, when they saw the (Penalty in the shape of) a cloud traversing the sky, coming to meet their valleys, they said, "This cloud will give us rain!" "Nay, it is the (Calamity) ye were asking to be hastened!- A wind wherein is a Grievous Penalty!
[051:041] And in the 'Ad (people) (was another Sign): Behold, We sent against them the devastating Wind:
[052:027] "But God has been good to us, and has delivered us from the Penalty of the Scorching Wind.
[033:009] O ye who believe! Remember the Grace of God, (bestowed) on you, when there came down on you hosts (to overwhelm you): But We sent against them a hurricane and forces that ye saw not: but God sees (clearly) all that ye do.

the flood, the locusts, the lice, the frogs and the blood:

[007:133] Thereupon We let loose upon them the punishment of the flood, the locusts, the lice, the frogs and the blood _ (a succession of) elaborately manifest proofs. But they continued to display arrogance. They were a criminal nation!

stoning

[029:040] Each one of them We seized for his crime: of them, against some We sent a violent tornado (with showers of stones); some were caught by a (mighty) Blast; some We caused the earth to swallow up.
[105:003] And He sent against them Flights of Birds, [105:004] Striking them with stones of Sijjeel.
[054:031] For We sent against them (Thamud )a single Mighty Blast, and they became like the dry stubble used by one who pens cattle
[055:035] There shall be sent against you a flame of fire, and molten copper; and you shall not be able to help yourselves.

Are there any other unknown agents of punishment? Yes
[033:009] O ye who believe! Remember the Grace of God, (bestowed) on you, when there came down on you hosts (to overwhelm you): But We sent against them a hurricane and forces that ye saw not: but God sees (clearly) all that ye do.
[074:031] and none can know the forces of thy Lord, except He and this is no other than awarning to mankind.

4- Agent’s of support:

Sakinah :

Which denotes peace, reassurance, calmness, and tranquility ,increase of faith
One of the most important agents that God sends on the believers to reassure the feeling of being in the presence of God and under his protection ,which increases the faith


[009:026] Then ALLAH sent down HIS peace(sakinah) upon HIS Messenger and upon the believers, and HE sent down host which you did not see, and HE punished those who disbelieved. And this is the reward of the disbelievers.
[009:040] If you help him not, then know that ALLAH helped him even when the disbelievers drove him forth while he was one of the two, when they were both in the Cave, when he said to his Companion, `Grieve not for ALLAH is with us.' Then ALLAH sent down HIS peace (sakinah)on him, and succoured him with hosts which you did not see, and humbled the word of those who disbelieved, and it is the word of ALLAH alone which is supreme. And ALLAH is Mighty, Wise.

[048:004] He it is Who sent down tranquility(sakinah) into the hearts of the believers that they might have more of faith added to their faith -- and Allah's are the hosts of the heavens and the earth, and Allah is Knowing, Wise –
[048:018] Certainly Allah was well pleased with the believers when they swore allegiance to you under the tree, and He knew what was in their hearts, so He sent down tranquility(sakinah) on them and rewarded them with a near victory...


till part.2

peace and bless

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Airforce

Do Angels eat ?

Bible says

The angels who visited Abraham ate food!

And the LORD appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre, as he sat at the door of his tent in the heat of the day. He lifted up his eyes and looked, and behold, three men were standing in front of him. When he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them and bowed himself to the earth and said, "O Lord, if I have found favor in your sight, do not pass by your servant. Let a little water be brought, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree, while I bring a morsel of bread, that you may refresh yourselves, and after that you may pass on--since you have come to your servant." So they said, "Do as you have said." 6And Abraham went quickly into the tent to Sarah and said, "Quick! Three seahs of fine flour! Knead it, and make cakes." And Abraham ran to the herd and took a calf, tender and good, and gave it to a young man, who prepared it quickly. Then he took curds and milk and the calf that he had prepared, and set it before them. And he stood by them under the tree while they ate. (Genesis 18:1-8)


"They" means even God ate food .



Quran says :

The story of Prophet Abraham in Quran also indicates that the angels have no need of food. When angels, in the form of men, visited Prophet Abraham to give him the good tidings of the birth of a son, he killed a fatted calf in their honour. They refused to eat and he became fearful, it was then that they revealed themselves as angels. (Quran 51:26-28)

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Well - there is a delicate issue here that follows from the English translation.

The original phrase would be that the angels consumed the food. Then one could explain that this was done
through consumption by fire which angels are capable of. Drinking in the origin can also mean appreciation and not actual drinking. Finally, it is said that this consumption and appreciation occurred there did in a sense nourish them due to the high spiritual level of Prophet Abrham. Also it is important to note that although angels do not eat they still need nourishment in a more spiritual sense of the word because nothing in Allah's world can exist without being sustained by him. This is actually a subject discussed in texts related to the Bible and same question is raised also there with this answer given. The point itself is interesting though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Al-manar

One of the issue comes to the mind regarding the trinity besides the issues been mentioned, is the question, why it is suggested to be trinity?why not duality in the Godhead why not even more than three?

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I am having trouble with these post as I cannot quite see what it is you are trying to say or prove. Here you quote from several internet sources: 33% match http://ftp.cs.brown.edu, 20% match http://en.wikipedia.org, 6% match http://www.britannica.com, 2% match http://www.gamesover.com, 2% match http://en.wikipedia.org the rest one supposes is you own work.

Anyone can invent a theory round any number - for example, in Muslim circles the number 19 and I guess you go along with that do you? So is there any value in all this. If you don't like the idea of the trinity then that is fine but does not make you right does it. Most things about God we simply do not know 'how' or 'why' and it is not possible to obtain any material, evidence - for example, where is He, is He everywhere but how can he be everywhere at once. How can he listen to a billion prayers or in Islam's case a billion prayers all the same? So let's move on please.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hugo

I am having trouble with these post as I cannot quite see what it is you are trying to say or prove. Here you quote from several internet sources: 33% match http://ftp.cs.brown.edu, 20% match http://en.wikipedia.org, 6% match http://www.britannica.com, 2% match http://www.gamesover.com, 2% match http://en.wikipedia.org the rest one supposes is you own work.

Anyone can invent a theory round any number - for example, in Muslim circles the number 19 and I guess you go along with that do you? So is there any value in all this. If you don't like the idea of the trinity then that is fine but does not make you right does it. Most things about God we simply do not know 'how' or 'why' and it is not possible to obtain any material, evidence - for example, where is He, is He everywhere but how can he be everywhere at once. How can he listen to a billion prayers or in Islam's case a billion prayers all the same? So let's move on please.

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This is a very foolish argument. Much more foolish than the one you seem to dispute I must say. You see, the people here are aware of the importance of these questions and try to get and strive to the best way to deal with them for the benefit of all of us while you are still at the level where you are not aware.

Before you want to know the big things ask yourself what do you know about yourself. Do you know you exist? You are made according to what you think of billion of cells - yet you do not disintegrate by touch - do you? What glues all these cells. Also, have you ever seen your heart, so how do you know that you have one. You see - you do not know so much about yourself either...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Al-manar

Trinity P.5

Why 3 ?

One of the issue comes to the mind regarding the trinity besides the issues been mentioned, is the question, why it is suggested to be trinity?why not duality in the Godhead why not even more than three?

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A good question, and you provide one possible response:

Quote:

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That is not a puzzle….. the reason behind such choice of trinity,lies behind the obsession with the number 3 in ancient times…… from the very ancient times the number 3 is suggested to be essential, perfect, substantial, solid, complete and even divine !

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I would suggest an alternate. If one accepts that God determines what is and isn't, and then reveals to us what is and then we humans report what has been revealed. The reason that it is three and not something else is as simple as that 3 is what in fact, what has been revealed, and thus what we report. If it were something else, we would have affirmed that number, not three. I suggest it is Trinity, not because three fits something other model, but those models were forumlated based on what in fact is. Should God exist in 2 or 4 or 14, then I suggest that number would have been the number over which there would have been an obession, that in ancient times would have been suggested as being essential, perfect, substantial, solid, complete, and even divine.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gabriel Ibn Yus

This is a very foolish argument. Much more foolish than the one you seem to dispute I must say. You see, the people here are aware of the importance of these questions and try to get and strive to the best way to deal with them for the benefit of all of us while you are still at the level where you are not aware. Before you want to know the big things ask yourself what do you know about yourself. Do you know you exist? You are made according to what you think of billion of cells - yet you do not disintegrate by touch - do you? What glues all these cells. Also, have you ever seen your heart, so how do you know that you have one. You see - you do not know so much about yourself either...

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I am not sure I was arguing about anything as such just asking a question. But thank you for confirming what I said, if indeed as you say it very very hard even to know about our own physical bodies which at least we can study and has been studies for centuries then how much harder it is to know what God is like since we have no physical evidence at all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hugo

I am having trouble with these post as I cannot quite see what it is you are trying to say or prove. Here you quote from several internet sources: 33% match http://ftp.cs.brown.edu, 20% match http://en.wikipedia.org, 6% match http://www.britannica.com, 2% match http://www.gamesover.com, 2% match http://en.wikipedia.org the rest one supposes is you own work.

Anyone can invent a theory round any number - for example, in Muslim circles the number 19 and I guess you go along with that do you? So is there any value in all this. If you don't like the idea of the trinity then that is fine but does not make you right does it. Most things about God we simply do not know 'how' or 'why' and it is not possible to obtain any material, evidence - for example, where is He, is He everywhere but how can he be everywhere at once. How can he listen to a billion prayers or in Islam's case a billion prayers all the same? So let's move on please.

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You haven't actually answered his questions.. No one in Islam subscribes to 'numerical miracles/theories' perhaps they are marvelous as much as learning mathematics is marvelous, but they have their own place, the Islamic tenets aren't built around those specific numbers.. It seems yet again that you are in a bind trying to explain why your god needs to be three headed, with two heads ineffectual, and the last head forsaking its other parts.. The nature of your god once taken down to its basic components make for a god that is inept at answering a 'billion prayers' for he couldn't even answer one, the one that I think should be the most important..

I have no problems moving on and neither does the OP.. question is can you without hiding factors that seem to be of paramount importance for without them your entire faith falls apart!

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Originally Posted by Hugo

I am not sure I was arguing about anything as such just asking a question. But thank you for confirming what I said, if indeed as you say it very very hard even to know about our own physical bodies which at least we can study and has been studies for centuries then how much harder it is to know what God is like since we have no physical evidence at all.

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I did not say that you can study your own phyical body - If anything you can study somebodies else physical body. These two things are not the same.

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Originally Posted by Hugo

[COLOR="black"]I am having trouble with these post

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Indeed you have trouble not only with my posts,but also with the board as a whole..
the more you post the more you lose prestige...
you have a trouble seeing the word (Wikipedia) in bold in my post...

you have trouble getting my criticism on the trinity,and the fact it is not because I don't like it... any trinity,duality is welcome,but is there a trinity really?....
that is the point...

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Originally Posted by Hugo

in Muslim circles the number 19 and I guess you go along with that do you?

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No,I don't .....

not only that ,but later you will find out while discussing the term (prophecy),how many theories suggested by Muslims(who tries hard to find as much prophecies fulfillment as possible) who are obsessed with the quantity not the quality,their theories will be put under fire.....

I'm not a simple minded person who would swallow every speculation....

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Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ

It seems yet again that you are in a bind trying to explain why your god needs to be three headed, with two heads ineffectual, and the last head forsaking its other parts.

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I don't see how any Christian could be in the bind you claim that Hugo is in, for the god you describe is not in fact the God we worship. If you think it is, then your understanding of Christian beliefs remainis substantially askew from reality. The following is a prime example:

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The nature of your god once taken down to its basic components make for a god that is inept at answering a 'billion prayers' for he couldn't even answer one, the one that I think should be the most important..

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Originally Posted by Grace Seeker

I don't see how any Christian could be in the bind you claim that Hugo is in, for the god you describe is not in fact the God we worship. If you think it is, then your understanding of Christian beliefs remainis substantially askew from reality. The following is a prime example:

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I don't think so.. God's name isn't Jesus the son of Mary!
and the God you worship seems to have forsaken Jesus the son of Mary.

all the best

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Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ

the God you worship seems to have forsaken Jesus the son of Mary.

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I disagree. I don't think that Jesus was ever forsaken: not in the garden when asking for "this cup to be taken" from him, and not even on the cross when crying out "my God, my God, why have you forsaken me". I've spelled out why more than once on several other threads, so I won't take up space doing that again. But your continued insistence that Jesus was forsaken is precisely why I say your understanding of Christian beliefs remainis substantially askew from reality. What you say Christians believe and what we really believe remain to essentially different things.

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Originally Posted by Grace Seeker

I disagree. I don't think that Jesus was ever forsaken: not in the garden when asking for "this cup to be taken" from him, and not even on the cross when crying out "my God, my God, why have you forsaken me". I've spelled out why more than once on several other threads, so I won't take up space doing that again. But your continued insistence that Jesus was forsaken is precisely why I say your understanding of Christian beliefs remainis substantially askew from reality. What you say Christians believe and what we really believe remain to essentially different things.

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My understanding is askew or your beliefs simply make no logical sense? I think the choice here is obvious!

all the best

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Originally Posted by Grace Seeker

The reason that it is three and not something else is as simple as that 3 is what in fact, what has been revealed, and thus what we report. .

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would you accept that the obsession with the number three by the pagans before Judaism and Christianity to be revealed by God too?

apart from that ,What if I provide enough proofs that it wasn't revealed? would you accept then that the formula is nothing but human obsession not God's revelation?

more to say to conclude the trinity item in the right time later..(inshaAllah)

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Originally Posted by Grace Seeker

I don't think that Jesus was ever forsaken .

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Jesus cries as been forsaken... and you say no,he wasn't forsaken !! just why don't you believe him!?

but that can be understood ,I know why you don't believe what he said, it is really unbelievable!! ...

what kind of people that God would forsake?

Deuteronomy 31:17
On that day I will become angry with them and forsake them; I will hide my face from them, and they will be destroyed.

he won't forsake ?

Psalm 37:28
For the LORD loves the just and will not forsake his faithful ones. They will be protected forever, but the offspring of the wicked will be cut off;

don't you think jesus knew that?!!

to make matter worse ,anyone who would read the context of the writings of Matthew and such zealous savior who was more than eager to be executed and reminded his listeners time after time that it is a must for him to be killed eg;Luke 24:46 ,he even get angry with peter ,calling him satan when he asked for the safety of jesus, the over zealous savior would even ask his betrayer at the last supper to deport him faster to the Jews....

all of that inconsistent with his desperate cry (my God ,My God why have you forsaken me)
such textual problem... forced some biblical scholars to argue that Jesus was quoting the psalms !!

That indeed was a quotation from psalms ,but not by jesus ... it was by either the writer of Mark or Matthew (depending on who copied the other material ,which is still a controversial matter).....

Matthew (or Mark) being influenced by the old testament literally style... he wanted to add as much quotation as possible to compose the final scene of such sad monopoly ..he continued his talent of misapplying some old testament phrases on his story lines ..and the odd phrase to the context (my God ,My God why have you forsaken me) is just one of the many textual defects in his narratives......

more on such serious matter,will be exposed in details later ..inshaAllah...

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Originally Posted by Al-manar

would you accept that the obsession with the number three by the pagans before Judaism and Christianity to be revealed by God too? apart from that ,What if I provide enough proofs that it wasn't revealed? would you accept then that the formula is nothing but human obsession not God's revelation?

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Be interested to see you proof and why it is a proof and down through history a lot of numbers have become obsessions for all sorts of people - in Islam, why 5 prayers a day, why walk around 7 times etc so would you accept that these formula are nothing but human obsession not God's creation?

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Originally Posted by Al-manar

Jesus cries as been forsaken... and you say no,he wasn't forsaken !! just why don't you believe him!? but that can be understood ,I know why you don't believe what he said, it is really unbelievable!! ...what kind of people that God would forsake?

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For this to be understood you need to tell us what you think it means and why it was necessary for Jesus to suffer and to die. That way you will perhaps begin to understand what these passages mean. I also note that in these Biblical quotation you used three different web sites - why was that necessary?

One also notices that you have no concern whatever for context. Let us take Deuteronomy 31:17 - "On that day I will become angry with them and forsake them; I will hide my face from them, and they will be destroyed." where half the verse is missing. The whole verses says (NIV) "On that day I will become angry with them and forsake them; I will hide my face from them, and they will be destroyed. Many disasters and difficulties will come upon them, and on that day they will ask, 'Have not these disasters come upon us because our God is not with us?' The context that Moses is dying and commissioning Joshua and others to carry on the work so God is predicting that many will turn away - which of course we know to be true and would you expect God to bless those who wilfully turn away from him?

It is true as the Psalm says that For the LORD loves the just and will not forsake his faithful ones.... But such a verses cannot mean that the faithful never suffer trouble and trials for what it is saying is that God is always sufficient, will always in some way meet our need. Surely, such a thought must be true of Islam also? The fact that Jesus knew what he had to do is a long long way from the eager expectation you speak of and indeed all the Gospels make it clear that he was in great anguish about it and we see this the night before the cross and the words he spoke from it.

The NT is full of OT quotations so it has everything to do with showing a fulfilment of the prophesies and nothing whatever to do with your scurrilous allegation that the Gospel writers were fabricating the story - why would they do that, why would they lie? If there is a defect here it is in you obvious bias.