I'm not convinced that human evolution contradicts the Qu'ran...

Greetings and peace be with you MuslimCONVERT;

I know in at least one verse of the Qu'ran, Allah [swt] states that all mankind is made from clay... that clearly doesn't mean we were literally formed out of clay in the wombs of our mothers...

Just a thought, if we had the knowledge; all of us would be able to trace our ancestry back to Adam.
Adam can trace his ancestry to clay; hence all mankind comes from the clay of Adam.
Ok I am Christian, maybe some more learned people might have other thoughts

In the spirit of searching

Eric

format_quote Originally Posted by MuslimCONVERT

The question I have is, is it possible to understand Adam [a.s.] being the "first man" to be, the first man with a soul, who was accountable for his actions, and was close enough in form to be considered "human" -even if he was the last in a long line of evolutionary species? Because the Qu'ran doesn't have a "story of creation" like the book of Genesis in the Bible, where it is clearly stated that there was nothing, and then God made the first human being... The Qu'ran is somewhat vague on what was happening on earth before man... But we know there were things happening on earth before Adam [a.s.] got here, based on the verse in the Qu'ran where Allah states, "And when thy Lord said to the angels, 'I am going to place a ruler in the earth', they said: 'Wilt Thou place in it such as make mischief in it and shed blood? And we celebrate Thy praise and extol Thy holiness?' He said: 'Surely I know what you know not...'" [Qu'ran 2:30]. From this verse we see that earth was well formed long before Adam [a.s.], and the angels were quite familiar with it...

In the Qur'an, it is very clear that creation of Adam was separate from creation of earth and everything in it and Adam was created and dwelled in paradise (jannat). You said it yourself above that earth had well been formed before Adam was created. So even if you believe in evolution of earth, Qur'an makes it clearly that human is not part of it:

Indeed, the example of Jesus to Allah is like that of Adam. He created Him from dust; then He said to him, “Be,” and he was. (Qur’an 3:59)

And We said, “O Adam, dwell, you and your wife, in Paradise and eat there from in [ease and] abundance from wherever you will. But do not approach this tree, lest you be among the wrongdoers.” (Qur’an 2:35)

And creation of human is separate from creation of the natural:

The creation of the heavens and the earth is indeed greater than the creation of mankind (Qur'an 40:57)

so you are saying Adam had parents who were animal like? Did these "hominid like" parents, as you describe them, have souls? Did they commit zina as animals commit with each other? I am not sure Adam would be born to zaani "hominid like" parents.

If Adam's immediate parents were "homind like" and not entirely homo sapiens, then when did Adam become a homo sapien? When he was in womb of his "hominid like" mother's womb? Or later when he was undergoing puberty (yea ridiculous). Or hmm ?

Asalaamu Alaikum,

This is what Abdur Raheem said.

format_quote Originally Posted by MustafaMc

Your statement that I highlighted in red directly contradicts the Theory of Evolution (ToE).

Actually that is for atheistic evolutionist. ToE is just is analysis of the mechanics of the process. As for Adam in jannah, that could be on earth, Quran is not specific. The same word to "go down" is used for Isrealites when they disobeyed Moses (pbuh). I tell you where it does, it says Adam was created without a father and mother, as Jesus was created without a father. How exactly we don't know. But Jesus (pbuh) even though without a father, but he still had to go through the normal process of birth through womb. Somebody suggested without a father may mean through horizontal mutation/gene transfer. But it is just guess, nobody knows the exact process.

In that case, both Adam and Jesus births would go against ToE, but that is just based on the belief that things happen as we know it. In Islam, we have the middle path, things happen in a pattern, but there are unknowns and unseen things in reality.

So I don't think ToE goes against Islam, unless somebody is very rigid beliefs for ToE.

format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos

so you are saying Adam had parents who were animal like? Did these "hominid like" parents, as you describe them, have souls? Did they commit zina as animals commit with each other? I am not sure Adam would be born to zaani "hominid like" parents.

If Adam's immediate parents were "homind like" and not entirely homo sapiens, then when did Adam become a homo sapien? When he was in womb of his "hominid like" mother's womb? Or later when he was undergoing puberty (yea ridiculous). Or hmm ?

No not saying anything... Just kind of thinking... Not presenting "my views" or saying that what I've written is true...

I find it interesting and beautiful that in the Qur'an, Allah refers to the whole of humanity as:

Pickthall
"O children of Adam, if there come to you messengers from among you relating to you My verses, then whoever fears Allah and reforms - there will be no fear concerning them, nor will they grieve." (7:35)

And doesn't refer to us as "O children of apes", or "O children of hominids".

What hasn't been related to us about the conditions at the time of the creation of Adam (peace be upon him) and any other creatures present, all counts as matters of the unseen, which we don't need to delve into.

Scientific theories can change at the drop of a hat, even after years of being held as accepted fact, and are precisely that, theories. Postulated by other humans who have the same human limitations and failings as us, which people nowadays rely on to shape their view of the world and its origins. We don't need to somehow see if we can make our belief accomodate those theories.

Allah told us that he created our parents Adam and Hawwa (peace be upon them both). There is no reason whatsover in Qur'an or sunnah to suppose that they evolved from anyone or anything, the only reason would be to try to see if we can "modernise" or "adapt" our belief to fit in with the current day trend, and this is really not a good road to go down.

And Allah knows best in all matters, and may He forgive me if I said anything wrong.

although some mutations are visible in other creatures, this can't be used to claim that we just came out of amoeba, not thinking, not willing and not seeing, and slowly just developed into humans with authority over land and sea.
the explanation given is that one mutation at a time, the process of natural selection kept the best traits and discarded the rest.
without a will.
this cannot explain how something as complex as the eye developed, as most of the components of the eye are useless without the other parts, and of no benefit to the existing parts
and for non thinking, non seeing matter which came out of a non thinking non seeing planet to suddenly decide it wants to see, when it doesn't even know what seeing is and is unable to think in order to decide to build the components via a long process doesn't seem sensible at all, as the organism would have rejected each component as a useless trait,
it would have to know what it's doing and trying to make if it isn't going to discard these components as unnecessary.
also the fact that there are 7bn homo sapiens on earth, for the process of evolution to make sense, it would require that there were hundreds of billions of creatures almost identical to humans roaming around, since it works through multiplication. and if one were to try to explainthe absence of these creatures via the theory of natural selection of the best traits, it wouldn't leave room for all the other creatures which are so different from humans that are present today.

the argument that Allah created us in stages may possibly have some reason to exist as it explains the Being Who wills the process, although i don't hold that point of view,

the argument can be made that Allah tells us in the Quran that the likeness of Jesus is that of Adam, He created him from dust and said "BE", and he was.
the Quran also tells us clearly that Jesus (pbuh) was born of woman, (the process of fetal development is not given even though it occurred),
the dust being the origin of constituents which build the body.
Allah also tells us in the quran that He took out the offspring of Adam from Adam's loins and said "am i not your Rabb"

When thy Lord drew forth from the Children of Adam - from their loins - their descendants, and made them testify concerning themselves, (saying): "Am I not your Lord (who cherishes and sustains you)?"- They said: "Yea! We do testify!" (This), lest ye should say on the Day of Judgment: "Of this we were never mindful":
Quran 7:172
yet we know that we came to this earth through the process of birth with long stages between us, and Allah also tells us about this process in the Quran.

so it could be argued that the presence of man in paradise is different to how he came about on earth.
but i still find it hard to believe that we were once monkeys or something else (one mutation short) and that with one sudden mutation we became human and have continued as humans since,
and all the other humans from the mutation before disappeared while fish and snakes and birds and worms and elephants and apes remained.

Allah knows best

If you refer to evolution from the point of where we were humans onwards then fair enough. Because it only makes sense. But if you take it all the way to the apes, then stop!

If you look at skin colours for example, you will see that people have more or less adapted to their environment. Hotter regions in general have darker skinned people. People more or less adapted to their environment, because Adam 3layhu alsalaaam was only a certain colour.

Evolution in that sense, well u can call it adaptation is not contradicted by islamic belief.

God says in the Quran that He created Adam with His Hands. what i take that to mean is that God created Adam by himself and Adam didn't evolve from anything else nor was he produced like children are from their parents. additionally, i believe that it also says in the Quran that God made Adam from clay and then blew soul into him, but am unsure of the exact words. all this points to the fact that God made Adam directly from clay and Adam was not evolved from some other being.