Clearly they were real, but were they from Allah or not?
nothing clear nor real about them
Some Protestant Christians and non-Christians regard claims of Marian apparitions as being hallucinations encouraged by superstition, and occasionally simply as deliberate hoaxes to attract attention. Many such apparitions are reported in economically depressed areas, attracting many pilgrims who bring trade and money into the region (wiki).
That is just one faked ,so called apparition,that was composed and directed by a coptic church in Egypt ...
(though the video in Arabic) yet you can notice the torch in the church ,that is turned on(minute 0:40) and off (minute 0:50) ...
some coptic church fathers eg; father Bishoy ,and preist Refat Fekri... admitted that such apparitions are fake and criticised those churches that fool the simple people....
their testimony :
acoording to the famous father Bishoy (the second man in the Egyptian coptic authority),such fake apparations is made for the simple people who are longing for anything miracelous,extraordinary !!
Actually one of the most misleading propagandas in the religious world ,is the extraordinary claims ... not only the case of the catholic,orthodox christian claims of miracles of Mary,Saints etc.... but also the claims of healing with the name of Jesus ....... the issue goes even far to other world religions ,eg; hinduism etc....
countless reports of those adherents to such religions of not only they have a happy, spiritually fulfilling life without Jesus Christ, but also of extraordinary happenings in their communities ,including healing of desperate diseases etc....
In 1981 a group of five children were playing on a hill just outside of a village in the Yugoslavian Republic of Bosnia - Herzegovina called Medugorje when a vision of a beautiful woman claiming to be the Blessed Virgin Mary appeared before them. Since 1981 some seven to eight million pilgrims from different countries, cultures and Christian traditions have climbed up the holy hill of Medugorje. At 7:30 every evening pilgrims and tourists anxiously crowd around the dark rectory of a nearby church staring at the stream of light which will signify that once more the children, who still gather there daily, are having their private audience with the Blessed Mother. (IRF, Newsletter of the International Religious Foundation, Inc., Vol II, No. 6, Nov-Dec 1987, pp 1-2).
Divine grace (salvation) is felt to be especially potent in places visited by Jesus Christ or Saints or by Mary; where they have appeared in visions. Major pilgrimage centers include Lourdes where visions of the Virgin Mary were first seen in 1858 and where healing has been occuring since that time. (John R. Hinnells, ed., Dictionary of Religions, Middlesex, England: Penguin Books Ltd., 1984, p. 284)]. It also occurs to heretical Muslims who call on the dead or those not present, and the devils take the form of the one called upon even without him realizing it. I know of many cases where this has occurred and the people called upon have told me that they did not know that they were called upon, though those beseeching them for help saw their images and were convinced that it was the actual person. More than one person has mentioned that they called on me in times of distress, each telling a different story about how I have responded. When I told them that I never answered any of them nor did I know that they were calling on me, some said that it must have been an angel. I told them that angels do not benefit those committing SHIRK and that it was actually a devil trying to further misguide them.
It also occurs to heretical Muslims who call on the dead or those not present, and the devils take the form of the one called upon even without him realizing it.
I actually had a Catholic ask me this very question of the OP in person and I replied that I believed it was most likely a jinn that I explained was an evil spirit.
Thank you all once again. I don't think I will ever believe it when someone says that they are seeing apparitions.
The apparitions might be true, but they could be from deceiving djinn, who are always trying their hardest to make us humans deviate from worshiping the One true God, Allah swt, and worship His creations instead.
Actually one of the most misleading propagandas in the religious world ,is the extraordinary claims ... not only the case of the catholic,orthodox christian claims of miracles of Mary,Saints etc.... but also the claims of healing with the name of Jesus ....... the issue goes even far to other world religions ,eg; hinduism etc....
countless reports of those adherents to such religions of not only they have a happy, spiritually fulfilling life without Jesus Christ, but also of extraordinary happenings in their communities ,including healing of desperate diseases etc....
Regards
format_quote Originally Posted by Al-manar
Actually one of the most misleading propagandas in the religious world ,is the extraordinary claims ... not only the case of the catholic,orthodox christian claims of miracles of Mary,Saints etc.... but also the claims of healing with the name of Jesus ....... the issue goes even far to other world religions ,eg; hinduism etc....
countless reports of those adherents to such religions of not only they have a happy, spiritually fulfilling life without Jesus Christ, but also of extraordinary happenings in their communities ,including healing of desperate diseases etc....
I have a hard time with faith healers as well. They smack of snake oil and hoakum.
Some Protestant Christians and non-Christians regard claims of Marian apparitions as being hallucinations encouraged by superstition, and occasionally simply as deliberate hoaxes to attract attention. Many such apparitions are reported in economically depressed areas, attracting many pilgrims who bring trade and money into the region
Yes, Non Catholic Christians see that, but we also know that some of it may be real visions of demons impersonating Mary to keep Catholics stuck on paganism. I believe that Joseph Smith had either lied about his visions and as can be seen he plagiarized a lot from the Bible. We know cause he copied translational errors from the KJV or he really had visions of demons impersonating angels of God
Last edited by Burninglight; 02-08-2012 at 02:47 AM.
I believe that Joseph Smith had either lied about his visions and as can be seen he plagiarized a lot from the Bible. We know cause he copied translational errors from the KJV or he really had visions of demons impersonating angels of God
So paul of tarsus also lied about his visions and that's why he made a lot of errors in interpreting Jesus (pbuh) real teachings or paul really had visions of demons impersonating jesus (pbuh).
So paul of tarsus also lied about his visions and that's why he made a lot of errors in interpreting Jesus (pbuh) real teachings or paul really had visions of demons impersonating jesus (pbuh).
You have to draw the line somewhere.
lol, you are reversing my words on me. I can see you don't like Paul and you say all kinds on untrue things about him even after I told you we Christians see him as important as you see Muhammad. Everyone one we have brought up has had visions including myself. How can we tell what is from God and what is not?
One way I judge is a prophet must pass the prophet's test. Test #1 is the prophet from a prophetic bloodline? 2. Does the prophet support prior revelation and is he supported by it? 3. Has the prophet performed a miracle and or given prophecy that has been fufilled? 4. does the prophet mention the name of God or know it?
Jesus spoke to Paul after knocking him off his high horse; people witness part of Paul's revelation. Paul had no reason to support what he believed to be a Christian cult. He was one of the elect Jewish leaders a Pharisee; he was respected. He goes from that to a despised person. He loses his reputation among the religious leaders only to suffer the Christian skeptics who judge him on what he use to be.
Jesus blinded him and asked why he was persecuting him. Paul was told what great things he was to suffer of Christ sake. Paul considered himself the chief of sinners. He was beaten and stoned many times for promoting Christ by obeying the heavenly vision almost to the point fo death. He continually warns people night and day with tears. He is heart broken that his fellow bethren don't see the truth. He dies a martyr's death.
I don't see any motive in Paul's life to deceive anyone. He brought clarity to the gospel and doesn't contradict any of it. Luke shows that Jesus predicted His own death three times and he worked with Paul. The salvation Paul speaks of is in line with what Jesus said: "NO man can come to the father (God) except through me" Paul doesn't say anything different. Paul doesn't mention the word trinity in the Bible, but the triunity of God is prevades the Bible independantly of Paul.
I see you share in with those as part of Paul's persecutors.
Last edited by Burninglight; 02-08-2012 at 06:01 PM.
lol, you are reversing my words on me. I can see you don't like Paul and you say all kinds on untrue things about him even after I told you we Christians see him as important as you see Muhammad. Everyone one we have brought up has had visions including myself. How can we tell what is from God and what is not?
Exactly.
Jesus (pbuh) never even met Paul, let alone appointed him as an apostle.
NONE of the apostles appointed by Jesus (pbuh) even referred to paul as apostle.
format_quote Originally Posted by Burninglight
One way I judge is a prophet must pass the prophet's test. Test #1 is the prophet from a prophetic bloodline? 2. Does the prophet support prior revelation and is he supported by it? 3. Has the prophet performed a miracle and or given prophecy that has been fufilled? 4. does the prophet mention the name of God or know it?
Paul failed all of those tests.
prophet Muhammad (saw) fulfilled all of those tests.
format_quote Originally Posted by Burninglight
Jesus blinded him and asked why he was persecuting him. Paul was told what great things he was to suffer of Christ sake. Paul considered himself the chief of sinners. He was beaten and stoned many times for promoting Christ by obeying the heavenly vision almost to the point fo death. He continually warns people night and day with tears. He is heart broken that his fellow bethren don't see the truth. He dies a martyr's death.
Any of these supported by anyone not named Paul or Luke (his traveling "companion" and "secretary")?
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