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    Is There Evidence of Allah's Existence? (OP)


    I believe that there is no verifiable scientific proof that Allah (swt) exists. By this I mean that no one has ever seen, smelled or touched Him. Moses conversed with Him through the burning bush, but we don't have a tape recording of the conversation. No one has measured or defined His nature other than what He has revealed in the Quran. Belief in Allah (swt) is the most fundamental belief that we Muslims and other theists have. Why do you believe in His existence?

    My belief in Allah (swt) centers around the requirement I see for a Creator. This perceived need of a Creator is derived from my scientific knowledge (PhD in genetics and molecular biology, mash'Allah) and through the use of my mind to know that the universe and all life (as my friend Eric noted) did not arise by chance, but rather was created by a Higher Power that I know as Allah (swt). It is my choice to believe in Allah (swt) as it is the choice of others to disbelieve.

    I will use an analogy that I have stated elsewhere. If I were to walk upon a beach and came upon three bricks (_ _ _) that were stacked on top of each other perfectly aligned like:

    |
    |
    |

    I would conclude that someone came before me and stacked them up in that matter. The fact that there were no footprints left in the sand would not be proof that I was wrong and that the bricks instead became stacked by the random crashing of the waves on the shoreline. Rather I would conclude that these waves erased the footprints of the person who stacked the bricks while leaving the bricks standing. How much more intricate is the design of life systems that are evidence of a Creator?


    Why do you believe in Allah (swt)?

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    Re: Is There Evidence of Allah's Existence?

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    Sahih International
    I did not make them witness to the creation of the heavens and the earth or to the creation of themselves, and I would not have taken the misguiders as assistants.
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    Re: Is There Evidence of Allah's Existence?

    Yes, to answer the original question. I'm sorry if I repeat points that have already been made (I haven't had a chance to read the whole thread).

    Evidence that Allah exists is all around us, in nature, whether it be here on Earth or out in space. The evidence is also available in the Qu'ran and through the teachings of our beloved Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). I personally believe that scientific evidence is not necessary for belief in God/Allah. Having said that, I've spent much of my life studying science (a Bsc in Biomedical Sciences and currently a medical student) and the more I learn, the more I find tit to be total madness that someone, especially those who are learned, can claim that Allah does not exist.

    Islam how ever, managed to bridge the gap between religion and science. I'm sure all of you have heard of the scientific facts which are revealed by the Almighty in the Qu'ran and only recently been proven by science. I ask you, what more does man want as evidence?

    The Qu'ran says it best:

    [ Verily! In the creation of the heavens and the earth, and in the alternation of night and day, and the ships which sail through the sea with that which is of use to mankind, and the water which Allaah sends down from the sky and makes the earth alive therewith after its death, and the moving {living} creatures of all kinds that He has scattered therein, and in the veering of winds and clouds which are held between the sky and the earth, are indeed aayaat {proofs, evidences,lessons, signs, revelation, etc.} for people of understanding.] Soorat Al Baqarah{2:164}

    Allah guides whom he wills. Some of the most learned men on the planet are atheists and those without education believe in God with all their hearts.


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    Re: Is There Evidence of Allah's Existence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Born_Believer View Post
    ...are indeed aayaat {proofs, evidences,lessons, signs, revelation, etc.} for people of understanding.]
    Yes, I agree with this ayat of course and it is indeed evidence to me of Allah's existence. However, these are indirect evidences that depend upon a level of 'understanding' that does not neccessarily come with a PhD in science. These evidences require the lens of faith to become evident.

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    Re: Is There Evidence of Allah's Existence?

    Funny thing is how so many people want to find a scientific measuring device to prove the existence of Allaah(swt). We don't even know what such a device would need to consist of.

    An analogy, most of us know what a thermometer is and it can be used to measure the existence of heat. We did not always have thermometers they are a fairly recent invention. Let us go back in time say 1000 years. What proof was there heat existed? It was purely a personal and subjective opinion. John says my bath water is cold his wife Mary says it is hot. Was there any way Mary could prove to John the water was Hot if he could not feel the heat? Does that mean heat did not exist until the invention of the thermometer?

    So it is with Proof of Allaah(swt) those of us who believe, feel his existence. We do not need a thermometer, we know he exists. The non believers are like John in my Analogy. they assume that because they do not feel the warmth of Allaah(swt) he does not exist.


    The warmth of Allaah(swt) is sufficient proof for me to know he exists.
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    Re: Is There Evidence of Allah's Existence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodrow View Post
    The warmth of Allaah(swt) is sufficient proof for me to know he exists.
    If this thread were a competition, then you just finished in first place .

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    Re: Is There Evidence of Allah's Existence?

    Quote Originally Posted by the_stranger View Post
    And to throw in my two cents on the existence of Allah, I agree with CosmicPathos. If we deny the existence of Allah, then we kind of have to accept infinite regress, which doesn't make sense.
    Infinite redress or eternal universe I suppose.

    And infinite redress makes just as much sense to me as a God being (who has infinite powers, exists outside of time and space and needs no creator, etc). So I think this is mostly a matter of perspective.
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    Re: Is There Evidence of Allah's Existence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodrow View Post
    An analogy, most of us know what a thermometer is and it can be used to measure the existence of heat. We did not always have thermometers they are a fairly recent invention. Let us go back in time say 1000 years. What proof was there heat existed? It was purely a personal and subjective opinion. John says my bath water is cold his wife Mary says it is hot. Was there any way Mary could prove to John the water was Hot if he could not feel the heat? Does that mean heat did not exist until the invention of the thermometer?
    Heat is measurable outside the mind of the person sensing it. You don't need a modern thermometer to show heat exists. You just need to boil some water or thaw something. And indeed, people can sense heat that does not in reality exist (when neurons misfire). If you want to prove to anybody but yourself that Gods exist, you are going to have to do better than telling them you perceive something they don't.

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    Re: Is There Evidence of Allah's Existence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis View Post
    Heat is measurable outside the mind of the person sensing it. You don't need a modern thermometer to show heat exists. You just need to boil some water or thaw something.
    I guess the atheists of those days were the ones suffering Parietal Lobe Damage?

    best,
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    Re: Is There Evidence of Allah's Existence?

    Quote Originally Posted by العنود View Post

    I guess the atheists of those days were the ones suffering Parietal Lobe Damage?

    best,
    Perhaps.

    Perhaps there is spiritual energy all around us and perhaps we have souls within us. Perhaps we can sense spiritual energy with our sensory organs and perhaps the organs or neurons processing their signals in the brains of atheists are faulty. If this is so then this spiritual energy and these souls should be detectable objectively, outside the minds of those perceiving them.

    One interesting attempt to do so led to the meme that "the soul weighs 21 grams"

    http://www.snopes.com/religion/soulweight.asp

    Check it out

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    Re: Is There Evidence of Allah's Existence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis View Post
    processing their signals in the brains of atheists are faulty. I
    People with parietal lobe damage have difficulty identifying a sensation's location and type (pain, heat, cold, or vibration) hence, before thermometers were invented one can argue that mere sensation is the decider but then how about those who don't feel such things? Does it make heat, cold or pain any less non-existent?
    Such is the analogy of modern day atheists.. they can be hit with a ton of bricks and will only have a concrete explanation of why that occurred. No secondary thought or at least no secondary thought that is of use to change their directionality!

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    Re: Is There Evidence of Allah's Existence?

    Saying we feel God around us is not good enough to prove His existence. Otherwise, everyone would have felt that need to know God. But in history, very few actually truly searched for God. A lot of people are deceived by their minds to think too much about the subject.

    The Prophets of God searched for God, and then God showed Himself to them by manifesting His revelations on them. There was a sense of mission to all of those men.

    Another problem with approaching the existence of God with, "I feel Him surrounding us" is that it puts a sort of physical limitation on God, as if He is physical somehow. How do we know that? We don't. We really don't know anything about God except His attributes. Just because we say we know God in some way doesn't necessarily constitute itself as proof.

    The Messengers of God searched for Him, and then He led them to Himself. The only way that they knew for sure that God was there, was that He contacted them when they wished and longed to have contact with Him. Then these Prophets of God became the Proofs of Allah, in that they showed the existence of God by means of signs and prophecies. They are things which, when Allah wills, He demonstrates to His creation to lead them to Him. It is rejection of a Prophet to be convinced in one's heart about these signs and prophecies and then completely deny it based on mere assumptions about those signs or prophecies and the Prophet who brought them.

    When Allah says to look in the heavens and the earth for signs of Allah, there are specific reasons why we are to look there. Many people look there without knowing God, but it does not lead to the same realization as a Prophet of God has in their certainty, nor at the level of certainty of a believer in such a Prophet who became convinced of his signs and prophecies. The Qur'an has mentioned these signs, therefore we search for those signs and then we become more aware and convinced of God's existence. It isn't that we see what others don't. We simply know that God is there, and that the heavens and the earth demonstrate certain signs (Ayat) which Allah gave us in the Qur'an.

    Again, what level of certainty is there on the mere inference that God exists because we deducted that by observing the universe? Atheists come up with completely opposite conclusions for very good reasons. The reason is that the universe does not reveal God, God reveals Himself. What better proof is there about God than contact with Him? Atheists deny this contact humans have with God, which is why they relegate religion to fantasy. They do not believe in the possibility of contact with God because they don't see Him. Also for other reasons.
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    Re: Is There Evidence of Allah's Existence?

    I do not believe life comes from nothing. So that is what made me believe there is a creator.

    Now there are so many different religions/ideologies so it is difficult to choose. However, from studying all of them Islam was different. Apart from the Quran, all the scriptures look as though it was written by humans. In my opinion the Quran could not have been written by a human. The way it's written is so different. Just compare the scriptures and you'll see what I mean.
    Is There Evidence of Allah's Existence?

    I was looking at myself talking to myself and I realized this conversation...I was having with myself looking at myself was a conversation with myself that I needed to have with myself.

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    Re: Is There Evidence of Allah's Existence?

    There is no need to prove that there is a God if you reflect. Look around you and reflect. You will come to the conclusion that there is a god.

    And then there are many religions which makes it hard to find the right path. Study and see what religion makes sense. Live it and see if it makes a diffrence in your life. If you put in the effort to find the truth, Allah will guide you.
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    Re: Is There Evidence of Allah's Existence?

    Quote Originally Posted by GuestFellow View Post
    I do not believe life comes from nothing. So that is what made me believe there is a creator.
    Life coming from nothing makes just as much sense to me as sentient creator coming from nothing. Ultimately something has to either come from nothing or be eternal, and I see no reason why going one step back (or thousands of steps back with creators of creators) does anything to solve the problem or make it more likely.

    Now there are so many different religions/ideologies so it is difficult to choose. However, from studying all of them Islam was different. Apart from the Quran, all the scriptures look as though it was written by humans. In my opinion the Quran could not have been written by a human. The way it's written is so different. Just compare the scriptures and you'll see what I mean.
    Of course you believe that. You are a Muslim. This uniqueness of the Quran making it so special that it couldn't be written by humans is a heavily biased perception. It was written by a human hand, in a human language, in ink on paper. That is exactly how I would expect a human claiming to speak for a God to do it. A God himself could do much better and communicate much more clearly and directly and be certain to be heard, believed, and understood by all.

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    Re: Is There Evidence of Allah's Existence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis View Post
    A God himself could do much better and communicate much more clearly and directly and be certain to be heard, believed, and understood by all.
    In fact all those who search for God do so without a book. They use reason!
    Nothing can't create but something can create- You don't know the nature of God to try to compass him with your limited understanding & description.
    The Quran or Torah or Injil came as a guideline for how God wants us to live in this life and to set the law, so folks aren't left to their devices on how said law should be.
    Man can donate sperm father 156 children, wombs in India for rent, men getting bent for men.. that sort of thing, defines for us the moral code!

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    Re: Is There Evidence of Allah's Existence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis View Post
    Life coming from nothing makes just as much sense to me as sentient creator coming from nothing. Ultimately something has to either come from nothing or be eternal
    Before I address your point do you believe something comes from nothing?
    Is There Evidence of Allah's Existence?

    I was looking at myself talking to myself and I realized this conversation...I was having with myself looking at myself was a conversation with myself that I needed to have with myself.

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    Re: Is There Evidence of Allah's Existence?

    Its absurd to ask a question like "Who created the Creator", it's even sillier to say that "since the Creator has no creator then it makes sense that the universe has no creator".

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    Re: Is There Evidence of Allah's Existence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hulk View Post
    Its absurd to ask a question like "Who created the Creator", it's even sillier to say that "since the Creator has no creator then it makes sense that the universe has no creator".

    Why is it absurd? It seems perfectly reasonable - if we say something can't come from nothing, well a creator would be something, so where did that something come from?
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    Re: Is There Evidence of Allah's Existence?

    Quote Originally Posted by observer View Post
    Why is it absurd? It seems perfectly reasonable - if we say something can't come from nothing, well a creator would be something, so where did that something come from?
    The Creator is not a creation. A creation comes from a Creator.

    For an Islamic perspective one only has to reflect upon Sura Al Ikhlas where one of the verses say
    "And there is none like unto Him."


    Wanting to use the same logic for the material universe is absurd because just about anything that we can get our scientific hands on we can study, we can dissect, we can measure, and not only does this allow us to make use of knowledge of studying these things to our advantage but it also tells us that it has history.

    Can one do the same with God? No.

    Additionally, one has to reflect upon the characteristics of creation in terms of creatures and even law of the universe such as the speed of light/sound/etc. Do you think that these traits were out of nothing?

    In the Quran we are reminded to reflect upon the perfect measure of creation. These are not from nothing. The problem you have is that you are trying to say "If something cannot come from nothing, then God must come from something is God is something."

    No. Creation cannot come from nothing, and the Creator is not creation.
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    Re: Is There Evidence of Allah's Existence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis View Post
    Heat is measurable outside the mind of the person sensing it. You don't need a modern thermometer to show heat exists. You just need to boil some water or thaw something. And indeed, people can sense heat that does not in reality exist (when neurons misfire). If you want to prove to anybody but yourself that Gods exist, you are going to have to do better than telling them you perceive something they don't.

    its an interesting answer because that is exactly the point!

    the perception people have is narrow.

    anything that is not acceptable is perceived as abnormal.


    i could use the islamic analogy.. badly worded by myself.

    that when the veil is lifted from a persons eyes then there is no ignoring the things that go on.

    it does not give all the answers but it does change a persons perception.


    and as people wander to the extremes they do condition themselves to observe certain things, sometimes by choice.


    heat is subjective, to an extent.

    people walk on hot coals for fun.

    and others jump around naked in the snow.


    others have situation awareness.

    although what they are aware of is something that probably differs.


    its like a scientist that constantly denies the existence of god, all the while ignoring the help he gets. the people he meets. the situations he encounters. every blessing that is sent.

    simply because he is focused on his own objective.

    i guess that is every individuals problem.
    Last edited by M.I.A.; 05-30-2013 at 09:15 PM.
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