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    Is There Evidence of Allah's Existence? (OP)


    I believe that there is no verifiable scientific proof that Allah (swt) exists. By this I mean that no one has ever seen, smelled or touched Him. Moses conversed with Him through the burning bush, but we don't have a tape recording of the conversation. No one has measured or defined His nature other than what He has revealed in the Quran. Belief in Allah (swt) is the most fundamental belief that we Muslims and other theists have. Why do you believe in His existence?

    My belief in Allah (swt) centers around the requirement I see for a Creator. This perceived need of a Creator is derived from my scientific knowledge (PhD in genetics and molecular biology, mash'Allah) and through the use of my mind to know that the universe and all life (as my friend Eric noted) did not arise by chance, but rather was created by a Higher Power that I know as Allah (swt). It is my choice to believe in Allah (swt) as it is the choice of others to disbelieve.

    I will use an analogy that I have stated elsewhere. If I were to walk upon a beach and came upon three bricks (_ _ _) that were stacked on top of each other perfectly aligned like:

    |
    |
    |

    I would conclude that someone came before me and stacked them up in that matter. The fact that there were no footprints left in the sand would not be proof that I was wrong and that the bricks instead became stacked by the random crashing of the waves on the shoreline. Rather I would conclude that these waves erased the footprints of the person who stacked the bricks while leaving the bricks standing. How much more intricate is the design of life systems that are evidence of a Creator?


    Why do you believe in Allah (swt)?

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    Re: Is There Evidence of Allah's Existence?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hulk View Post
    No. Creation cannot come from nothing, and the Creator is not creation.
    Well you summed up everything I was trying to say.

    I think atheists/agnostics and even theists sometimes reduce the standard of God to our level. Some even give God human characteristics.
    Is There Evidence of Allah's Existence?

    I was looking at myself talking to myself and I realized this conversation...I was having with myself looking at myself was a conversation with myself that I needed to have with myself.

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    Re: Is There Evidence of Allah's Existence?

    Quote Originally Posted by GuestFellow View Post

    I think atheists/agnostics and even theists sometimes reduce the standard of God to our level. Some even give God human characteristics.
    Does the Quran not give human attributes to God? Mercy, anger and so on?
    2 | Likes GuestFellow, GodIsAll liked this post

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    Re: Is There Evidence of Allah's Existence?

    Quote Originally Posted by observer View Post
    Does the Quran not give human attributes to God? Mercy, anger and so on?
    Yes but that's because to give Muslims an idea of what God is like. Since he is beyond our comprehension, that is probably why human characteristics are used to enable us to have an idea of what he is like. However those human characteristics should not be applied literally.

    Some people reduce God's standard to a low level which can be borderline shirk. Some people believe God has human features or has relatives.
    Is There Evidence of Allah's Existence?

    I was looking at myself talking to myself and I realized this conversation...I was having with myself looking at myself was a conversation with myself that I needed to have with myself.

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    Re: Is There Evidence of Allah's Existence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hulk;
    Additionally, one has to reflect upon the characteristics of creation in terms of creatures and even law of the universe such as the speed of light/sound/etc. Do you think that these traits were out of nothing?
    Well, "we don't know is the scientific answer". The problem with many religious adherents is that they accuse atheists of not having the answers as if that's a bad thing; we don't, we're looking for them. I hope someday we find them.

    As for something coming from nothing, science is starting to suggest that this is perfectly possible. It also suggests that our concept of "nothing" is wholly inadequate.

    My problem with the religious viewpoint is that it seems to say "We don't know the answer to this, so God must have done it." I can't accept that reasoning.
    Last edited by observer; 05-30-2013 at 09:25 PM.
    2 | Likes Pygoscelis, czgibson liked this post

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    Re: Is There Evidence of Allah's Existence?

    Quote Originally Posted by observer View Post
    Does the Quran not give human attributes to God? Mercy, anger and so on?
    Shaykh Ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him) was asked: There is a hadeeth narrated from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) in which he forbids saying “May Allaah deform your face”, and says that Allaah created Adam in His image. What is the correct belief with regard to this hadeeth?
    He replied: This hadeeth is proven from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), in which he said: “If any one of you strikes (another), let him avoid the face, for Allaah created Adam in His image.” According to another version: “In the image of the Most Merciful.” This does not imply resemblance or likeness. What is meant, according to the scholars, is that Allaah created Adam with the ability to hear and see, and to speak when he wants. These are also attributes of Allaah, for He is All-Hearing, All-Seeing, and He speaks when He wants, and He has a Face, may He be glorified and exalted. But it does not mean that there is any resemblance or likeness. Rather the image of Allaah is different from that of created beings. What is meant is that He is All-Hearing, All-Seeing, and He speaks when He wants, and He created Adam also able to hear and see, with a face and hands and feet. But man’s hearing is not like Allaah’s hearing, his seeing is not like Allaah’s seeing, his speaking is not like Allaah’s speaking. Rather Allaah has attributes that befit His majesty and might, and man has attributes that befit him, attributes that are finite and imperfect, whereas the attributes of Allaah are perfect, with no shortcomings, infinite and without end. Hence Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “There is nothing like Him, and He is the All‑Hearer, the All‑Seer” [al-Shoora 42:11] “And there is none co‑equal or comparable unto Him” [al-Ikhlaas 112:4] So it is not permissible to strike the face or say “May Allaah deform your face”. End quote. Majmoo’ Fataawa al-Shaykh, 4/226

    http://islamqa.info/en/ref/20652
    Is There Evidence of Allah's Existence?

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    Re: Is There Evidence of Allah's Existence?

    Quote Originally Posted by observer View Post
    The problem with many religious adherents is that they accuse atheists of not having the answers as if that's a bad thing; we don't, we're looking for them. I hope someday we find them.
    There is nothing wrong with not having the answers. Science is about explaining how things work, but it cannot address everything. I think people have to be reasonable here.


    As for something coming from nothing, science is starting to suggest that this is perfectly possible.
    Do you have evidence for this? If you don't, then that's fine. I'm not saying your wrong. We don't have access to suitable references at all times.

    My problem with the religious viewpoint is that it seems to say "We don't know the answer to this, so God must have done it." I can't accept that reasoning.
    Well how would you define a reason?
    Last edited by GuestFellow; 05-30-2013 at 09:46 PM.
    Is There Evidence of Allah's Existence?

    I was looking at myself talking to myself and I realized this conversation...I was having with myself looking at myself was a conversation with myself that I needed to have with myself.

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    Re: Is There Evidence of Allah's Existence?

    Quote Originally Posted by observer View Post
    My problem with the religious viewpoint is that it seems to say "We don't know the answer to this, so God must have done it." I can't accept that reasoning.
    That is your problem alone along with other atheists. What you'd classify as science today which differs from what science was 200 years ago and certainly different still if there's still life two hundred years from now doesn't offer answers to the most basic of questions, isolating the gene that causes schizophrenia for instance, a cure for the common cold, the Usage of immunoglobilin D and the list goes on and on, yet pretends to offer an explanation to the origin of life and evolution of man from which the masses are meant to hang their hopes and beliefs?

    and no the concept of spontaneous generation is long dead!
    There should be no room for pseudo science or poetic science, and since you offer no viable explanation for the tough question then there really shouldn't be the slightest rudimentary remark as to why many subscribe to 'God Must have done it' Frankly life is too short and bizarre to subscribe to some random beliefs as dreamt up by an atheist.

    best,
    Is There Evidence of Allah's Existence?

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    Re: Is There Evidence of Allah's Existence?

    Quote Originally Posted by observer View Post
    Well, "we don't know is the scientific answer". The problem with many religious adherents is that they accuse atheists of not having the answers as if that's a bad thing; we don't, we're looking for them. I hope someday we find them.

    As for something coming from nothing, science is starting to suggest that this is perfectly possible. It also suggests that our concept of "nothing" is wholly inadequate.

    My problem with the religious viewpoint is that it seems to say "We don't know the answer to this, so God must have done it." I can't accept that reasoning.
    Then one has to define one's idea of nothing. If by nothing you mean empty space then that is still something. And if by nothing you mean absolutely nothing not even space then you have to wonder what caused it to change. Either way there is a source.

    As for "We don't know the answer to this, so God must have done it.".
    Well the problem with that is that you blanket all theists with that frame of mind. I think many muslim scientists(or muslims in general) would disagree. Understanding how something works does not negate that it has a source.

    And to add:
    Islam places great importance in seeking knowledge. If TRULY seeking knowledge leads one to disbelieve that surely this wouldn't have been encouraged. So that itself is worth reflecting on.
    Last edited by Hulk; 05-30-2013 at 09:35 PM.
    Is There Evidence of Allah's Existence?


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    Re: Is There Evidence of Allah's Existence?

    Quote Originally Posted by GuestFellow;
    Do you have evidence for this? If you don't, then that's fine. I'm not saying your wrong. We don't have access to suitable references at all times.
    Yes and no! It's a horribly complex area and I'm merely an interested amateur. Essentially, what I'm talking about here leads from Heisenberg's work and we see now with the idea of "vacuum energy" or "vacuum particles" where energy/particles (the same thing, essentially) appear to come from nothing.

    As I said, this might really be something from nothing or it could be that what we think of as nothing is completely flawed. Time will tell (hopefully, I'm an optimist )!
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    Re: Is There Evidence of Allah's Existence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hulk;
    Then one has to define one's idea of nothing. If by nothing you mean empty space then that is still something.
    We may well have to redefine what "nothing" is. I certainly can't do it!

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    Re: Is There Evidence of Allah's Existence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hulk View Post
    Then one has to define one's idea of nothing
    There's NO idea here. We didn't always exist on this earth per science, so per science as well they should put together the zillions of biochemical and physiological pathways & reactions all the way to a complex being with higher reticular function in two separate sexes across the species and make it so it is applied and empirical and reproducible for that is truly how science works. They don't like 'God of the gaps' and likewise we don't like pseudo science.These are their beliefs no more no less and I am not big on substituting one belief for another because it is en vogue!

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    Re: Is There Evidence of Allah's Existence?

    Quote Originally Posted by العنود View Post
    and no the concept of spontaneous generation is long dead!
    There should be no room for pseudo science or poetic science,
    No I don't mean spontaneous generation but vacuum energy / particles. Pseudo science it certainly is not - whether it's right or wrong remains to be seen; that's the beauty of science!

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    Re: Is There Evidence of Allah's Existence?

    Quote Originally Posted by العنود View Post
    There's NO idea here. We didn't always exist on this earth per science, so per science as well they should put together the zillions of biochemical and physiological pathways & reactions all the way to a complex being with higher reticular function in two separate sexes across the species and make it so it is applied and empirical and reproducible for that is truly how science works. They don't like 'God of the gaps' and likewise we don't like pseudo science.These are their beliefs no more no less and I am not big on substituting one belief for another because it is en vogue!
    I can imagine it now.. "By nothing we mean something"
    Is There Evidence of Allah's Existence?


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    Re: Is There Evidence of Allah's Existence?

    Quote Originally Posted by observer View Post
    No I don't mean spontaneous generation but vacuum energy / particles. Pseudo science it certainly is not - whether it's right or wrong remains to be seen; that's the beauty of science!
    You failed to showcase how vacuum energy brings about life, beings, higher reticular function in a positive forward fashion. Yes science is beautiful, it is a way for us to describe the world we find ourselves in and deal with some of its problems. NO more NO less!

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    Re: Is There Evidence of Allah's Existence?

    Quote Originally Posted by العنود View Post

    You failed to showcase how vacuum energy brings about life, beings, higher reticular function in a positive forward fashion.
    I fear that that task may be beyond me!

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    Re: Is There Evidence of Allah's Existence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hulk View Post
    I can imagine it now.. "By nothing we mean something"
    Fact of the matter is, most atheists are self described scientists even though science isn't their field of study and it is fine not everyone who goes through academia is brilliant or vice versa, they're also self described 'free thinkers' - which again I think is probably a method to make themselves ok with their life style choices... What I absolutely abhor however, is the intellectual bullying and false self aggrandizement because you know when we get down to the nitty gritty they answer jack of the tough questions. As I stated I am not personally interested in pseudo science or science from which no plausible and replicable inference can be made!
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    Re: Is There Evidence of Allah's Existence?

    Quote Originally Posted by observer View Post
    I fear that that task may be beyond me!
    Hats off to you then & thanks for your honesty!
    Is There Evidence of Allah's Existence?

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    Re: Is There Evidence of Allah's Existence?

    Quote Originally Posted by observer View Post
    Yes and no! It's a horribly complex area and I'm merely an interested amateur. Essentially, what I'm talking about here leads from Heisenberg's work and we see now with the idea of "vacuum energy" or "vacuum particles" where energy/particles (the same thing, essentially) appear to come from nothing.

    As I said, this might really be something from nothing or it could be that what we think of as nothing is completely flawed. Time will tell (hopefully, I'm an optimist )!
    Fair enough. It is hard for me to comprehend for something to come from nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by العنود View Post

    Fact of the matter is, most atheists are self described scientists even though science isn't their field of study and it is fine not everyone who goes through academia is brilliant or vice versa, they're also self described 'free thinkers' - which again I think is probably a method to make themselves ok with their life style choices... What I absolutely abhor however, is the intellectual bullying and false self aggrandizement because you know when we get down to the nitty gritty they answer jack of the tough questions. As I stated I am not personally interested in pseudo science or science from which no plausible and replicable inference can be made!
    I would say from my experience some atheists view science as an ideology when really it's just a means to explain how things occur. Then these explanations are used to solve problems. Science is neutral. It does not take sides.
    Is There Evidence of Allah's Existence?

    I was looking at myself talking to myself and I realized this conversation...I was having with myself looking at myself was a conversation with myself that I needed to have with myself.

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    Re: Is There Evidence of Allah's Existence?

    you know on this topic i recently had a shocking discussion with a colleague of mine

    i kept on telling him to go back to the beginning where the first of anything ever came into existence and to give me an answer as to how that came into existence but he still refused to say god instead he kept saying " random chance" in order for there to be random chance there has to be somthing to give cause to the chance.


    i couldnt believe how blind people can be. was honestly shocked
    Is There Evidence of Allah's Existence?

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    My tears testify that i have a heart
    yet i feel me and shaytan never part
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    Re: Is There Evidence of Allah's Existence?

    Quote Originally Posted by العنود View Post
    What I absolutely abhor however, is the intellectual bullying and false self aggrandizement because you know when we get down to the nitty gritty they answer jack of the tough questions. As I stated I am not personally interested in pseudo science or science from which no plausible and replicable inference can be made!
    I think it's unfair to say that science fails because it doesn't have all the answers; it doesn't claim to, it merely tries to answer the questions. I'm not sure why you use the word pseudo-science, or why you think that these kinds of theories are not plausible or replicable? 100 years ago quantum physics seemed utterly ridiculous. Now, our world could not function without it.

    I think generally that the religious and the atheistic are looking for answers, they just find them in different places - religion in scripture and atheists (some of them anyway) in experiment and observation.

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