Thank you for your time :)

The following quotation is from a link provided to me by Burninglight apparently a.ka. 'Brother Andrew' soliciting me to communicate with him via e-mail. I will let you decide for yourself if you want to continue interacting with him. It seems ironic that this guy wants to interact with Muslims on this forum, but yet is highly concerned about remaining anonymous so "Truth Hating Muslims" can't "swear, curse, condemn or send him their latest Fatwa". Note the 'On Line' date. On Line since: September 11, 2002, 8:46 A.M.

E-mail Brother Andrew

!

Note:

1. I have tried to be careful in both my research and conclusions. I am also sensitive to errors and inaccuracies in what I have said and will make changes when in error.
2. Using your memory or a pen and paper, copy the email address from this graphic into your email program.
3. I need to do this because we get a lot of hate mail from Muslims and most of them cannot read (or write) in English very well. (And yes, I know some Muslims do have Phd's in 8th century Algebra History, Global Computer Hacking Terrorism and Embryology; and can read and write in English quite well.) But the point is, I don't want to make is easy for Truth Hating Muslims to swear, curse, condemn or send me their latest Fatwa. Nice emails commending me for being brave, honest, kind, truthful and a Christian are always welcome!
4. I requested the webmasters and editors at xxxxxx to host my materials on their web site, as you have for "brother Andrew". Thanks guys!
5. I remain anonymous for security reasons. God Bless America! "The Good 'ol USA!!!"

It seems that Burninglight is not the same person as 'Brother Andrew'.

format_quote Originally Posted by Burninglight

And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
John-14:26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

-15:26But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

-16:7Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

Christians like me believe the Holy Spirit is God otherwise known as the Spirit of truth. Jesus as you can see from Scripture sends the Spirit of truth. Anyone that sends someone must be equal or greater in authority.

Who testifies of Jesus?
Who brings Him glory?
The Spirit of truth does. The Bible was written by men inspired and led by the Spirit of Truth the Holy Spirit in essence GOD

Jesus said "I AM the way the truth and the Life." He didn't say, "I show you the way and the truth" like all other prophets. Christians don't take the words of Jesus (PBUH) lightly.

BismiAllah Ar Rahman Ar Raheem,

greeting of peace burninglight,

i see once again that you are incapable of answering any questions about your scriptures. it seems that you can only post Biblical verses and references to the satanic verses. but that's OK with me, i understand that it is very difficult for you to escape Shaytaan's grip. in order to help free you from the bonds of the hellfire, i will, in sha'a Allah, take some of my precious time to shed light upon your errors.

i understand that you and your fellows Christians are under the belief, based upon faulty scriptures that the Comforter prophesied by Jesus, pbuh, is the "Holy Spirit" that you claim is one third of a unified godhead; you further claim that this associate partner of the godhead is here and has never left us. let's examine your scriptures briefly in order to determine the accuracy of your belief, shall we?

Acts 2:1 When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2 Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues[a] as the Spirit enabled them.

5 Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. 6 When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard their own language being spoken. 7 Utterly amazed, they asked: “Aren’t all these who are speaking Galileans? 8 Then how is it that each of us hears them in our native language? 9 Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia,[b] 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome 11 (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!” 12 Amazed and perplexed, they asked one another, “What does this mean?”

Acts 5:12 The apostles performed many signs and wonders among the people. And all the believers used to meet together in Solomon’s Colonnade. 13 No one else dared join them, even though they were highly regarded by the people. 14 Nevertheless, more and more men and women believed in the Lord and were added to their number. 15 As a result, people brought the sick into the streets and laid them on beds and mats so that at least Peter’s shadow might fall on some of them as he passed by. 16 Crowds gathered also from the towns around Jerusalem, bringing their sick and those tormented by impure spirits, and all of them were healed.

32 As Peter traveled about the country, he went to visit the Lord’s people who lived in Lydda. 33 There he found a man named Aeneas, who was paralyzed and had been bedridden for eight years. 34 “Aeneas,” Peter said to him, “Jesus Christ heals you. Get up and roll up your mat.” Immediately Aeneas got up. 35 All those who lived in Lydda and Sharon saw him and turned to the Lord.

36 In Joppa there was a disciple named Tabitha (in Greek her name is Dorcas); she was always doing good and helping the poor. 37 About that time she became sick and died, and her body was washed and placed in an upstairs room. 38 Lydda was near Joppa; so when the disciples heard that Peter was in Lydda, they sent two men to him and urged him, “Please come at once!”

39 Peter went with them, and when he arrived he was taken upstairs to the room. All the widows stood around him, crying and showing him the robes and other clothing that Dorcas had made while she was still with them.

40 Peter sent them all out of the room; then he got down on his knees and prayed. Turning toward the dead woman, he said, “Tabitha, get up.” She opened her eyes, and seeing Peter she sat up. 41 He took her by the hand and helped her to her feet. Then he called for the believers, especially the widows, and presented her to them alive. 42 This became known all over Joppa, and many people believed in the Lord. 43 Peter stayed in Joppa for some time with a tanner named Simon.

so, let's recap: according to [spurious] Christian writings, here the book of Acts, we learn that:

1) a tongue of fire appears upon Christians when "filled" with the Holy Ghost.

2) Christian leaders, filled with the Holy Ghost can cure people merely having them fall under their shadow!

3) they can also raise people from the dead!

this is what you believe, so let me ask you, where are these people sporting tongues of fire that can cure people with their shadow and raise people from the dead? according to you, these spirit would be with "you" ALWAYS!

so...where are they?

can you tell us?

if you can't tell us where they are then you have to admit that your "spirit" has indeed departed. and left nearly 2000 years ago. thus, your scriptures are in error.

thank you for the opportunity to discuss this and i look forward to your response.

and i wouldn't be sam if i didn't ask:

who was it the God inspired the write the gospel now called John? and when was it written? and who can confirm this?

peace!

format_quote Originally Posted by MustafaMc

The following quotation is from a link provided to me by Burninglight apparently a.ka. 'Brother Andrew' soliciting me to communicate with him via e-mail. I will let you decide for yourself if you want to continue interacting with him.

It seems ironic that this guy wants to interact with Muslims on this forum, but yet is highly concerned about remaining anonymous so "Truth Hating Muslims" can't "swear, curse, condemn or send him their latest Fatwa". Note the 'On Line' date

Well, I told you that I don't agree with someone being anonymous and I believe this brother Andrew is not anonoymous. He just doesn't want to receive hate mail. I tried writing to him for the first time, but he didn't answer me. I thought he made some good points to send, and I didn't mean to sent that other part to you; I told you that in PM, but you chose to ignore it and post my PM publicly may Allah/God judge between us.

format_quote Originally Posted by YusufNoor

greeting of peace burninglight,

i see once again that you are incapable of answering any questions about your scriptures. it seems that you can only post Biblical verses and references to the satanic verses. but that's OK with me, i understand that it is very difficult for you to escape Shaytaan's grip. in order to help free you from the bonds of the hellfire, i will, in sha'a Allah, take some of my precious time to shed light upon your errors.

i understand that you and your fellows Christians are under the belief, based upon faulty scriptures that the Comforter prophesied by Jesus, pbuh, is the "Holy Spirit" that you claim is one third of a unified godhead; you further claim that this associate partner of the godhead is here and has never left us. let's examine your scriptures briefly in order to determine the accuracy of your belief, shall we?

i might be incapable, but I am not sure what question you ask that I didn't answer so if you can plz post it again. I don't mind being blasted & you can sock it to me as long as you can take it as well. It is only me researching all I am told. I represent a critical view of all that I am presented with. I will respect you and be civil, but if you cannot handle dialogue with me I will not post to you in deference to your wishes.

format_quote Originally Posted by Burninglight

i might be incapable, but I am not sure what question you ask that I didn't answer so if you can plz post it again. I don't mind being blasted & you can sock it to me as long as you can take it as well. It is only me researching all I am told. I represent a critical view of all that I am presented with.

all you do is quote anonymous books.

I will respect you and be civil, but if you cannot handle dialogue with me I will not post to you in deference to your wishes.

if your going to to refer to the Qur'an as satanic verses, ad naseum, i shall have to refer to your books as the same. NOTHING that i write comes from Christian hate sites, NOTHING! i am 53 and have only been a Muslim about 6 years. i spent decades studying Christianity [was raised Catholic]. i still listen to College lectures on Christianity, the History of Christianity, the History of the Bible and still read books on those same topics for my own research. i KNOW what is wrong with the books you call scripture. i know, and advise when i can, a couple of brothers who travel the globe debating Christians [quite successfully]. i realize how you feel that your books and your faith compare to Islam, but you are WRONG in your conclusions/assumptions. the only research i need to do is what Bible quotes to copy here; ALL of my questions are my own. your feelings may be your own, but none of your questions are. but that's OK too. i shall endeavor to answer your pms, in sha'a Allah, even using the hate crap you post because i can still make argument using them because the stuff you are going to see me post is MY OWN WORK! i was nearing writing a book, but i'll just use this an an opportunity to put forth my positions here. historically, your position is weak. you just don't know it. by comparison, Islam crushes Christianity. you probably aren't aware, but using the original language of each one can say the the Qur'an was completed BEFORE the Bible was! and i'll even use the dates you posted from anti-Islamic hate sites to show it! in sha'a Allah!

so, who was it that God inspired to write Hebrews?

who was it that God inspired to write Acts?

who was it that God inspired to write Deuteronomy?

and now, who was it that God inspired to write Timothy?

who was it the God inspired the write the gospel now called John? and when was it written? and who can confirm this?

1) a tongue of fire appears upon Christians when "filled" with the Holy Ghost.

2) Christian leaders, filled with the Holy Ghost can cure people merely having them fall under their shadow!

3) they can also raise people from the dead!

this is what you believe, so let me ask you, where are these people sporting tongues of fire that can cure people with their shadow and raise people from the dead? according to you, these spirit would be with "you" ALWAYS!

so...where are they?

there are some question. perhaps you missed them, eh?

peace

format_quote Originally Posted by YusufNoor

ALL of my questions are my own...stuff you are going to see me post is MY OWN WORK!

The same goes for me. I too write my own thoughts and I provide the reference and give credit to others when I quote them. I don't visit sites that tear down or refute Christianity as some people apparently do with Islam. Why is there such hatred toward Muslims and Islam in general?

[QUOTE=MustafaMc;1495039]

format_quote Originally Posted by YusufNoor

ALL of my questions are my own...stuff you are going to see me post is MY OWN WORK![/quote] The same goes for me. I too write my own thoughts and I provide the reference and give credit to others when I quote them. I don't visit sites that tear down or refute Christianity as some people apparently do with Islam. Why is there such hatred toward Muslims and Islam in general?

imho, western education was heavily by the Jesuits. even Protestants, during the era of the reformation considered those schools the best. the western concept of history is seeped in Jesuit dogma. Christians assume that history and especially their history is and has been correctly furnished to them. it hasn't been. thinking that they know the truth about history and esp their religion,they assume they have the truth. now present them with Islam and of course they are going to think it is false. thus, when they come upon something like "the satanic verses", they think, "well, there you go. it's all answered right there. i don't have to do any thinking or any work. how cool!" because they assume that they have the truth and Islam is false, they likewise assume that something calling Islam false is thus the truth!

now because the don't actually know the truth about their scriptures, they have no clue that even some of the things they think badly about the Qur'an are still better than the truth about their own book! i intend to use THEIR dates about the Qur'an and pit that against the truth about their book! in sha'a Allah.

why? because we still come out on top! by centuries!

like taking candy from a baby...

format_quote Originally Posted by Burninglight

I never referred to the Quran as satanic verses, but I did share verses from the Al-tabari 6:111 “I have fabricated things against God and have imputed to Him words which He has not spoken.” ~MUHAMMAD (Al-Tabari 6:111) Now, if this is not a true quote tell me, but if it is, what is it in referrence to if not to Satanic verse such as the exalted three cranes whose intercession is hoped for? Now, I am not going to hate sites. It is a person whose research made me think, and I shared some of it with you. That person also asks if anyone finds any comments to be untrue and can proof it, he would publically recant and correct his research. you simple chose to get on the offensive. That was your choice.
It was also you choice to share my PM to you on a public forum which in my opinion is not ethical. The Bible teaches us "Great peace have they which love thy law and nothing shall offend them" If I get offended, I try loving God's law more. That is my cure. Brother Andrew never responded to my first email that day; so, he is not anonomyous like you said. If I could email him, you could have as well. You are saying things that are not true about me by twisting and sharing PMs. WADR, I find that reprehensible on you part.
If you cut down the Bible Scriptures because of what I said, you are also cutting down Islam and the Quran, because whether you care to admit it or not, there is a link between what comes before of God's word and what comes after. I don't mind hard questions about the Bible and my beliefs; sock it to me. But if you dish it out you should be able to take it as well.

Now I answered you questions look at the previous post.
Keep the peace bro

I haven't been following this thread so please clarify: are you referring the highlighted text to Prophet Muhammed ?

If you are than I advise you not to accept vague and remote findings that are generally not accepted by Muslim. Firstly because not all the narrations in Tabari are accepted and secondly because you cannot learn Islam from non-Muslims, just like I can't learn Christianity from an atheist.

What we follow of Islam are those things which are clear and confirmed; this includes the belief that Muhammed never having lied against God nor invented anything against Him. The proof of that is in Qur'an itself.

The Qur'an says:

And if he (Muhammad) had forged a false saying concerning Us (Allâh),

We surely would have seized him by his right hand (or with power and might),

And then we certainly would have cut off his life artery (Aorta), And none of you could witheld Us from (punishing) him.

(Quran 69:44-47)

And the Qur'an further says:

By the star when it goes down, (or vanishes).

Your companion (Muhammad) has neither gone astray nor has erred.

Nor does he speak of (his own) desire.

It is only a Revelation revealed.

He has been taught (this Qur'ân) by one mighty in power [Gabriel]

(Quran 53:1-5)

Whatever it was that made you think about that false saying in Tabari should after this be discarded (though I highly doubt that I would find that in the books of Tabari about Muhammed in the original Arabic versions).

format_quote Originally Posted by Burninglight

I never referred to the Quran as satanic verses, but I did share verses from the Al-tabari 6:111 “I have fabricated things against God and have imputed to Him words which He has not spoken.” ~MUHAMMAD (Al-Tabari 6:111) Now, if this is not a true quote tell me, but if it is, what is it in referrence to if not to Satanic verse such as the exalted three cranes whose intercession is hoped for? Now, I am not going to hate sites. It is a person whose research made me think, and I shared some of it with you. That person also asks if anyone finds any comments to be untrue and can proof it, he would publically recant and correct his research. you simple chose to get on the offensive. That was your choice.

you ask about hadeeths that are taken out of context or inauthentic. i have responded to those here and i sent you a link. you responded with ANOTHER copy of the same crap you started with and not offering a single opinion about the response you received.

It was also you choice to share my PM to you on a public forum which in my opinion is not ethical.

the pm system doesn't allow the same size posts as the forum, so it requires more work. i don't have that much time. also the work that i do is intended for others to use, so it will get posted anyway.

The Bible teaches us "Great peace have they which love thy law and nothing shall offend them" If I get offended, I try loving God's law more. That is my cure. Brother Andrew never responded to my first email that day; so, he is not anonomyous like you said. If I could email him, you could have as well. You are saying things that are not true about me by twisting and sharing PMs. WADR, I find that reprehensible on you part.

"try loving God's law more"

If you cut down the Bible Scriptures because of what I said, you are also cutting down Islam and the Quran, because whether you care to admit it or not,

you must convince of the authenticity of your Bible just as you would have us convince you on the Qur'an. why are you afraid to look the textual criticism that scholars are? it's not "cutting down", it's seeking the truth. a truth you are afraid of

there is a link between what comes before of God's word and what comes after.

we ARE trying to establish what IS God's Word. you must offer the same proof that you ask of us.

I don't mind hard questions about the Bible and my beliefs; sock it to me. But if you dish it out you should be able to take it as well.

Now I answered you questions look at the previous post.
Keep the peace bro

i KNOW that you wrote:

The Bible was written by men inspired and led by the Spirit of Truth the Holy Spirit in essence GOD

what specific men were "inspired and led by the Spirit of Truth the Holy Spirit in essence GOD" to write the Bible"?

you are comparing religions, thus you must look at your own as well, if not you would have to accept what we tell you about Islam as the truth. you don't. what historical evidence do you have for YOUR positions on your faith? that is what you are asking about ours, so you need to consider your faith the same way you are looking at ours. so i will be asking you for the evidence of your faith so that you can the value of both in a real comparison.

thus:

so, who was it that God specifically inspired to write Hebrews?

who was it that God specifically inspired to write Acts?

who was it that God specifically inspired to write Deuteronomy?

and now, who was it that God specifically inspired to write Timothy?

who was it the God inspired specifically to write the gospel now called John? and when was it written? and who can confirm this?

where specifically are these people sporting tongues of fire that can cure people with their shadow and raise people from the dead? according to you, these spirit would be with "you" ALWAYS!

format_quote Originally Posted by YusufNoor

you are comparing religions, thus you must look at your own as well, if not you would have to accept what we tell you about Islam as the truth. you don't. what historical evidence do you have for YOUR positions on your faith? that is what you are asking about ours, so you need to consider your faith the same way you are looking at ours. so i will be asking you for the evidence of your faith so that you can the value of both in a real comparison.

thus:

so, who was it that God specifically inspired to write Hebrews?

who was it that God specifically inspired to write Acts?

who was it that God specifically inspired to write Deuteronomy?

and now, who was it that God specifically inspired to write Timothy?

who was it the God inspired specifically to write the gospel now called John? and when was it written? and who can confirm this?

where specifically are these people sporting tongues of fire that can cure people with their shadow and raise people from the dead? according to you, these spirit would be with "you" ALWAYS!

I thought I answered these question already. I said men inspired by the Holy Spirit, but I think you mean to say that this answer doesn't satisfy you. I can understand that, but don't say I didn't answer you. Why is that important who wrote it? The point is not who wrote it. The point is whether God said it or not. After all how can one prove ones faith. It is like trying to prove to an atheist that God exists? Faith is all the evidence Christians have. It 's all each of us have. You haven't ofended me. Are you ofended?

format_quote Originally Posted by YusufNoor

the pm system doesn't allow the same size posts as the forum, so it requires more work. i don't have that much time. also the work that i do is intended for others to use, so it will get posted anyway.

You are responding to a post that wasn't really direct at you, but of course you can comment about it, but don't take up an offense for someone else. I don't expect you to PM me, but you are always welcome to do so.

format_quote Originally Posted by YusufNoor

"try loving God's law more"

I do, I do, I do! I said that is what I do originally; so, why are you quoting my own words back to me if you are not trying to imply it is what I don't do??? If I can't get you to believe my personal testimony or things about me, how shall I convince you the Bible is God's word?

format_quote Originally Posted by YusufNoor

you must convince of the authenticity of your Bible just as you would have us convince you on the Qur'an. why are you afraid to look the textual criticism that scholars are? it's not "cutting down", it's seeking the truth. a truth you are afraid of

Every good point. Can you plz send me the link that explains the thing about what Muhammad said in the Al tabira? Did or didn't he say that in your own words as well? thanks!Here it is again:

"“I have fabricated things against God and have imputed to Him words which He has not spoken.”
~MUHAMMAD (Al-Tabari 6:111)

"But the prophet who speaks a word presumptuously in My name which I have
not commanded him to speak . . . that prophet shall die."
~GOD (Deuteronomy18:20)^[1]

You want prove of the Bible's authenticity. This post is all I have at this time:

So this forum is on compartive religion. In the record of the Qur’an and the Bible we see some similarities and disagreements. Christian scholars say that though people have made corrupt translations of the Bible, the true Bible meaning has have always been available, and it has been preserved reliably with no significant errors. If someone did hypothetically corrupt all Bibles in Middle Ages as Muslims say, we could simply change it back. We know the original words because of the following reasons:

1. We have manuscripts of the New Testament dated c.127 A.D, c.150 A.D., and c.200 A.D., as well as recently released copies with the Dead Sea Scrolls dated before 100 A.D. You ask who wrote it? I don't know, but that doesn't stop me from believing.
2. We have 10,000 other manuscripts of the New Testament to compare. Scribal errors did occur, but with 10,000 manuscripts, we can track these errors. The evidence would be weaker, not stronger, if there had been a "Christian ‘Uthman" to burn them. Why would someone burn what is Allah's word if they didn't think it was corrupted? And if it were corrupted, how do you know the same corrupted verses didn't get put back in? If not corrupted why burn any of it. Very valuable documents were burned, why??????????
3. The early church writers (from 97/98 A.D. to 325 A.D.) referred to every single verse in the New Testament except around 17.
4. We have copies of the Greek translation of the Old Testament, Dead Sea Scrolls of almost all of the Old Testament dated at the time of Christ, and Christ’s use of Old Testament quotes. I don't care who wrote it. God preserved and allow it do be documented as His word or he would have interviened.
5. We have God’s promise that He will watch over and preserve His word, and that He will not let His followers be led astray. -Isa 55:10-11; 59:21; 1 Peter 1:24-25, Mt 24:35
6. As far as the Bible is concerned, Christian scholars are very keen to examine all the evidence and be as precise as possible in what the original wording was.
Christians and all seekers of truth should welcome questioning the reliability of today’s Bible. But rather than asking, "what is its reliability", one should also ask as I mentioned "what its reliability is being compared to."

Now PLZ answer these:
Do you believe man's power to corrupt God's word is greater than God power to preserve it? Do you believe God would allow His people to be without an uncorrupted version of His word for thousands of years until prophet Muhammad can come and set the record straight for all? And of course let us not forget the the prophet Joseph Smith who came to set the record straight for all mankind from what he received from angelic messengers? Mormons will tell us that Christianity & Islam has it all wrong and that the true word is the Book of Mormon.
I tell Mormons that come to me door that Joseph Smith doesn't pass the test of prophethood. A prophet must be clearly and unequivocally confirmed by preceeding prophets and or prophecy and not with something that has to be ambigously inferred. A prophet should never contradict the previous Scriptures. A prophet should give a prophecy that doesn't involve a 50% chance it could happen or he should do some miracle such as turn water to wine or rise the dead or heal the blind; Finally, a prophet should know the name of God

Falsified Hadeeth:

“I have fabricated things against God and have imputed to Him words which He has not spoken.”
~MUHAMMAD (Al-Tabari 6:111)

Response:

This is in fact such a weak and stupid argument made by some Christians , and they desperately and shamelessly use it to disprove the prophethood of Muhammed.
For starter, who is Tabari ?! Tabari was a HISTORIAN not a scholar, so he does not verify the narrations as we will read in the introduction of his book. Anyway, Islamic historians would simply compile all the known narrations about a certain event, regardless of how authentic or reliable each of those narrations were. They would copy the Isnads (chains of transmitters) into their books, in order that the Muhaditheen (scholars of Hadith) could determine which narration was Sahih/Hasan (authentic/good) and which was Dhaeef (weak) or even Mawdoo (fabricated). In other words, the historians compiled the narrations, and the Muhaditheen authenticated them. Therefore, based on the above, we find that Tareekh at-Tabari is simply a COLLECTION OF NARRATIONS on certain events; some of these narrations are ACCURATE, whereas others are NOT. The authenticity of each narration depends on the Isnad (chain of transmitters): if the narration was transmitted by reliable narrators, then it would be accepted as valid, but if it was transmitted by unreliable people, then the narration was to be disregarded. Tabari says in a disclaimer in the introduction of his book:

“I shall likewise mention those (narrators) who came after them, giving additional information about them. I do this so that it can be clarified whose transmission (of traditions) is praised and whose information is transmitted, whose transmission is to be rejected and whose transmission is to be disregarded…The reader should know that with respect to all I have mentioned and made it a condition to set down in this book of mine, I rely upon traditions and reports which have been transmitted and which I attribute to their transmitters. I rely only very rarely upon (my own) rationality and internal thought processes. For no knowledge of the history of men of the past and of recent men and events is attainable by those who were not able to observe them and did not live in their time, except through information and transmission produced by informants and transmitters. This knowledge cannot be brought out by reason or produced by internal thought processes. This book of mine may contain some information mentioned by me on the authority of certain men of the past, which the reader may disapprove of and the listener may find detestable, because he can find nothing sound and no real meaning in it. In such cases, he should know that it is not my fault that such information comes to him, but the fault of someone who transmitted it to me. I HAVE MERELY REPORTED IT as it was reported to me.(Tareekh at-Tabari, Vol.1, Introduction)” [ http://www.ahlelbayt.com/articles/islam/tabari ]

So this quote is a LIE against Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), not just that, but there were many lies invented by the hypocrites from among the Jews in order to REJECT prophet Muhammed. The people were certain that Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was the awaited one and to defend themselves, the hypocrites from the Jews invented such lies.
Inventing lies is not a big problem for the liars, this is their job. For example, the Prophet once recited some Surahs(verses from Quran) to the pagans in Makkah and prostrated to God Almighty at the end. The pagans who were speechless at the beauty of the recitation also prostrated. When the news spread to the leaders of the pagans, they were upset and were looking to take action against those pagans who had prostrated. In order to defend themselves, those pagans lied that Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) had said good things about their false gods. The lie was made to defend themselves.
If these Christians feel that the hypocrites were telling the truth and he really praised the pagan gods, then he must also accept the hypocrites around Prophet Jesus (peace be upon him) who claimed the same for Prophet Jesus (peace be upon him).
Just like the hypocrites invented lies against the Prophets of the Old Testament (sinners, rapists, killers, incest performers, idol worshippers, nudists etc), they invented lies against Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) but the difference is that Muslims have rejected these hypocrites and have thrown them of their books .
Another thing, Muhammed peace be upon him was SINCERE, and he was called ”The Trustworthy” and “Truthful” before his prophethood, so how can he fabricate things on God, doesn’t make any sense, dose it ?!
Christians’ conclusion that Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) had Satan behind him just reminds one of the story of Lazarus when Prophet Jesus (peace be upon him) raised him from death by the permission of God Almighty. The hypocrites around him stated that “the devil was behind him”. Such allegations have been labeled at Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) as well and it is no surprise at all.

So this argument that Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) openly said that he lied is just PATHETIC and CHILDISH as can be seen. Making use of the weakest of weak narrations is the job of the HYPOCRITES.

I bear witness there’s no god but Allah, and Muhammed is his final messenger..

And Allah knows the best..

Scimi

It happens because the Muslims were very stringent in collating all the hadeeth wherever they could get them. And them have them verified through Isnad (chain of narration) through this process, many hadeeth were known to be falsified or weak through chain of narration. However, those that were not included in the sahih collections, weren't burnt or destroyed - they were kept as examples of false or weak hadeeth - and done so because the Muslims have a system of recording everything... well they did back then. These days the Ummah has degraded somewhat - but that's because we don't have a Khilafah (akin to the papacy)

Anyhow,I have come across hadeeth like these before on various sites, where non Muslims have genuine queries about Islam but come across a stumbling block in the form of a falsified hadeeth which throws them right off.

Thank you bro BurningLight for having the courage to come to a predominantly Muslim forum and share your concerns. We do appreciate it.

Bro Scimi

Bro, if you have any more questions, just ask. We can point you to the authentic collections, etc, all to help clarify and promote understanding between us.

And yes, The Jews did spread a lot of false info about my dearly beloved Jesus Alaihis Salaam. This is typical of history, whereby the the corrupt leaders always try to disrepute the prophet that comes to them.

happened all through religious history. name a prophet that was accepted by everyone without this defamation attempt - the only exception is our ancestral father Adam Alahis Salaam.

Scimi

format_quote Originally Posted by MustafaMc

Few members here have been on board long enough to know our friend Snakelegs. Communication with her friend indicated that she had taken the shahadah before she died.

Inna lillahi wa'inna ilaihi Raji'oon - WOW, she attained purity and God took her, Allahu Akbar, Ar-Rahmaan Ar_Raheemu.

Scimi