Jews in the end days...

[1989_2008]

A lot has been written on how Christians and Muslims will end up just before Judgement Day.
What about Jews? What does the Quran say will happen to Jews in the final days?

[- Qatada -]

Those who disbelieve from among the Jews, Christians, and polytheists - they will follow the Dajjal in his misguidance, and will lose in the life to come.

[greenhill]

Salaam,

I have just joined this forum, and loking back at the archive, not sure if you are still active here.

Briefly, the Jews were waiting for their prophet to arrive, and when Jesus (pbuh) arrived they rejected him, they waited,as they were promised, when Muhammad (pbuh) arrived, again they rejected, and they wait for their prophet. We know there is no more prophets after Rasulullah, only Dajjal. This wil be their prophet king. They will flock to him. Even the Christians believe that the next is the anti Christ, in other words, Dajjal.

Peace

[theplains]

Briefly, the Jews were waiting for their prophet to arrive, and when Jesus (pbuh) arrived they rejected him, they waited,as they were promised, when Muhammad (pbuh) arrived, again they rejected, and they wait for their prophet.

I think the Jews will only accept a "Messiah" who will promise to deliver them from oppression.
They rejected Jesus because they could not grasp the concept of a Messiah who would come
as a suffering servant and who would die an atoning death for them.

Peace,
Jim

[IAmZamzam]

There really is nothing to this, guys. Every single prophet (save Jonah, of course) was rejected by most people for the very same reason: "We follow the way our forefathers followed!" Resistance to change, blind adherence to tradition, refusal to open one's mind. The old local ways and established authority are always, always, always right. Anyone who questions them is always, always, always a quack. That's way too largely the story of human history. (Sadly it is all too often the story of the ummah as well.)

[greenhill]

Hi Jim,

What you say is perhaps one of the reasons, but I feel there is one message that Jesus reminded them on where they have erred with regards to the charging of interests they could not accept. As a result they found 'reasons' to reject Jesus as the 'Messiah' like that you have mentioned, and that Jesus is not of direct descend etc.

Put in a simple way, they manipulated the Torah to allow interest, rejected Jesus (pbuh) and Muhammad (pbuh) for their stand against charging of interest. Fast forward a thousand odd years, the Bretton-Woods agreement (early 1900s) placed the foundation that made the world a slave to interest. Like it or not, every person partaking in modern world transaction is affected by it.

Coming back to the topic, they are still waiting for the arrival of their 'prophet' which the Christians believe will be the Anti Christ and the Muslims believe to be Dajjal.

(Apologies for not being very eloquent...)

Peace.

[Ahmad H]

As salaamu 'alaykum,

I know Dajjal is said to be followed by 70000 Jews before the Day of Judgment. Whatever that means, I don't know if it means they will accept some false Messianic man. According to the first ten verses of Surah Al Kahf, as we are prescribed to read when we encounter Dajjal, it says that there is a group of people who say that Allah has a son and that they are liars. If those verses are on Dajjal, then how is Dajjal an individual? If these verses are a prayer against him, then they must describe him as well in order for us to safeguard ourselves. It is an interesting thought I hope you all take to consideration.

Anywho, this discussion was not about the Jews before the Day of Judgment, but their state on the Day of Judgment. I think the Ahadith have clarified this issue. There would be very few Jews in comparison to the Muslims who would be truly following Musa (as)'s message.

According to a Hadith in Bukhari, on the night of the Mi'raj, it is said (a portion of the Hadith):

"Then we ascended to the 6th heaven and again the same questions and answers were exchanged as in the previous heavens. There I met and greeted Moses who said, 'You are welcomed O brother and. a Prophet.' When I proceeded on, he started weeping and on being asked why he was weeping, he said, 'O Lord! Followers of this youth who was sent after me will enter Paradise in greater number than my followers.'"

Therefore, this is all we know. Anything else is mere speculation. If anyone else knows something else that the Qur'an says on the Day of Judgment about the Jews, then please share.

Wassalaam.

[IAmZamzam]

greenhill: Are you talking to me? When did Jesus say anything about interest? Off the top of my head I don't remember that at the moment. And when did the scripture mention this conflict? Please tell me it's not just something you're assuming. Because I'm trying not to make assumptions about you making assumptions about Jews.

Ahmad: Salaam. After Muhammad there have always been more of us following Moses correctly--simply because our teachings about him are more accurate. We have the advantage of having the uncorrupted, still infallible version of events, as well as the true, final religion, which no one can reject in their hearts without being condemned for it. It doesn't really prove anything. If the Sabeans who followed Yahya had still been a large movement then the same would surely hold true for them as well.

[Ahmad H]

Ahmad: Salaam. After Muhammad there have always been more of us following Moses correctly--simply because our teachings about him are more accurate. We have the advantage of having the uncorrupted, still infallible version of events, as well as the true, final religion, which no one can reject in their hearts without being condemned for it. It doesn't really prove anything. If the Sabeans who followed Yahya had still been a large movement then the same would surely hold true for them as well.

What I stated was from a Hadith. In fact, I did not even draw any conclusions from it, except that what it said is all I know about the Jews' situation in the Hereafter and that there could be more regarding it. I hope you aren't disputing that. We don't just follow Musa (as), we follow all of the Prophets. Thus, I do not think the Hadith is speaking about us. There is a distinction mentioned in it between the followers of those of Musa (as) and the Prophet Muhammad (saw)'s followers.

[greenhill]

Salaam to you IAmZamzam,

Thanks for your question, no I was not talking to you as I was writing to Jim, however, I did write a reply but my computer hanged just as I was about to post it. Here I have rewritten it, but not as I originally did.

Some quotes I found on the net pertaining interest.


Exodus 22:25 “If you lend money to any of my people with you who is poor, you shall not be like
a moneylender to him, and you shall not exact interest from him."

25 King James Bible " If you lend money to any of My people who are poor among you, you shall not be like a moneylender to him; you shall not charge him interest.

Deuteronomy 23:19 "You shall not charge interest on loans to your brother, interest on money, interest on food, interest on anything that is lent for interest."

In the book of Luke Jesus makes it clear that we're not even to turn our enemies away in their need:

"Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. . . .
But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked." (Luke 6:30, 35, NIV)

.....unquote....

On the question you asked about "when did the scripture mention this conflict?" I am not so sure the context of the conflict you are referring to? Don't want to go off on a tangent...

I don't have any feelings of animosity for other religions or beliefs, I just believe that the messages from Allah culminated in the Quran for all humanity and the Torah, Psalms and the Bible were specifically for the Jews, as they were the only Nation of people that believe in the One True God since the times of Abraham.

If I have not addressed your point do let me know.

Peace to you, IAmZamzam.

[muslimah bird]

Our Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) said in a famous hadith:Judgment Day will come only when the Muslims fight the Jews and kill them, until the Jew hides behind the tree and the stone, and the tree and the stone say: ‘Oh Muslim, oh servant of Allah , there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him’ – except for the Gharqad tree.”

[IAmZamzam]

brother greenhill, all I really want from you is some evidence for your assertion. It seems like this one financial matter is a very small thing to have rejected a prophet over. Especially when The Qur'an keeps offering the same one contradictory motive, over and over and over again.

[greenhill]

Thank you IAmZamzam for your feedback,

Now I am unclear with ".... Especially when The Qur'an keeps offering the same one contradictory motive, over and over and over again."

What do you mean by Quran offering 'contradictory motive'? I cannot as yet decipher. Please excuse my ignorance in trying to fully grasp your query.

I would be most appreciative if you could either give an example or examples of what the Quran keeps offering. I understand you want evidence for my assertion, and I don't want to go round in circles due to my failure to understand the mitigating point. I will endeavour to clarify... In syaa Allah.

Peace.

[IAmZamzam]

I've already told you what the motive was. Just scroll up. A word search in The Qur'an will reveal a huge number of verses which contain it.

[greenhill]

Peace to you IAmZamzam

Just realised a newbie error by addressing 'theplains' as 'Jim'

I agree, yes, the message was the same from the beginning, and the reaction to the message too was the same, and for the reasons you cited. But as 'commerce' was also developing, still in barter trading system, additional laws/guidelines needed to be introduced with regards to the conducting of those affairs. It came with the Torah, repeated in the Bible and the Quran. And it dealt with usury. A very significantly important factor in of trade. It could be done in such way as to milk an unsuspecting victim of everything he owns systematically, AND give his beautiful daughter in marriage.... no, but seriously, they witness Jesus' miracles, his reasoning, what to say? Yet they rejected him and it is primarily because of his stand on this issue. They had to find 'reasons' to reject him.

And just in case I have diverted away from the topic at hand about Jews at the end days, yes they are still waiting for their prophet. We know there is no other prophet.

[Born_Believer]

It is said in many hadiths and by many scholars that the followers of Dajjal will be Jews and we will fight against them in the last days, with Christians by our sides (I think, I might be getting the timelines mixed, may Allah forgive me if I am). After Dajjal is defeated the Christians will also become our enemies and then after that only Islam will be accepted as the one true faith and mankind will enter a golden age.

[IAmZamzam]

I believe it's Gog and Magog who will strike after the army of Yahudah people are defeated, brother.

[greenhill]

Gog and Magog, (or Ya'juj and Ma'juj).

A barrier was made by Alexander to seal them off from people until the end of times...(or something like that). Any theories on them? Are they real or concepts?

[Azzam90]

Gog and Magog, (or Ya'juj and Ma'juj).

A barrier was made by Alexander to seal them off from people until the end of times...(or something like that). Any theories on them? Are they real or concepts?

Peace upon you, actually the barrier made by Dhul-Qarnin (Cyrus the Great). Brief story of Cyrus is at the end of Surat AL-Kahf.

And logically if I look at google maps I would say they are sealed somewhere in the Himalaya.

[Azzam90]

Gog and Magog, (or Ya'juj and Ma'juj).

A barrier was made by Alexander to seal them off from people until the end of times...(or something like that). Any theories on them? Are they real or concepts?

Peace upon you, actually the barrier made by Dhul-Qarnin (Cyrus the Great). Brief story of Cyrus is at the end of Surat AL-Kahf.

And logically if I look at google maps I would say they are sealed somewhere in the Himalaya.