Did Jesus Predict Muhammad?

format_quote Originally Posted by goodwill

The promise of the Spirit is actually found first in the Old Testament or the Hebrew Scriptures:
“And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit (Joel 2:28,29).


The Lord’s promise to His first disciples to send the Spirit of Truth, also referred to as the Comforter or Paraclete, is found primarily in the Gospel according to John. These are relevant verses from chapters 7, 14, and 16:
“In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)”

“And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.”
“But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.”
“But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.”
“Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.”


The Fulfillment of the promise to send the Spirit is found in the Acts of the Apostles, which records events shortly after Jesus the Christ's Ascension:
“And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this? Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine. But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy.”

Here's a Post (copy & paste ) from the Thread, A DEBATE who was the Comforter that Jesus predicted but still remains still unfulfilled untill after 2016 years ???

http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...Mohammed/page2

Talibilm.. Reasons why the Comforter cannot be Mohammed ??



''.....................Sister Arbed, you have been ALWAYS ELUDING MY QUESTION to you, after how many days after Jesus's vanishing did the spirit of Pentacost descended on disciples after how many days ? and also how may disciiples were there ? any Narration direct or verses from your book describing what did the Holy Spirit say ? ( Like hadith, quote a narration with chain of transmitters ) Or I will declare that ITS JUST A FAKE INCIDENT a Fairy tale and there is nothing a holy spirit except the Angel Gabriel who is called the PURE SPIRIT in the Noble Quran


So hope you grasp why the comforter is ONLY Muhammad (pbuh) See 6 PROOFS from JUST ONE VERSE from your NT


''John 16:13-15 Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

13 However, when the Spirit of Truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own initiative but will say only what he hears. He will also announce to you the events of the future. 14 He will glorify me, because he will receive from what is mine and announce it to you.''


Points to note ( explaining the above verse of John )


1)' Spirit of truth' means in a figurative speech for THE truth speaking person since the bible have such figurative speeches in tons like Father (God) Son of God ( the Pious person ) and also see different spirits ( From Bible ) 1) spirit of wisdom 2) spirit of jealousy 3) Spirit of slavery 4) Spirit of Evil etc all from your books But Prophet Muhammad was the Spirit of truth , Never lied in his life and and even disclosed to the public those noble Quran verses which exposed his errors as a Human '' the spirit of truth ''



2) he will guide you into all the truth; , what did the holy spirit '' GUIDE " ? unto what truth ? Guide means to guide someone when they are Mislead So the verse prophesizes , you Arbed, aj4u and all Chrisitians will be MISLEAD so then you will require a GUIDE to guide you to THE TRUTH , whereas the Spirit of Pentacoste descended with in 15 days ( or 150 days , Right ? as per earlier your post ? ) Do you think your 12 disciples and their followers were misguided with 150 days of Jesus vanishing ? if so what did holy spirit say ? to which truth ? give narrations like hadith with chain of narrators but its ONLY Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) who guided you to all the truth that Mary was chaste ,Jesus was the messiah, a prophet and a servant of Allah not begotten , not killed like a criminal and the books have been distorted, All prophets like Lot(pbuh) were not criminals etc etc etc



3) for he will not speak on his own initiative but will say only what he hears , but the holy spirit ghost spoke of its own in different languages but its only Muhammd who fullfilled this as in the Noble Quran 53: 3- 4

''Nor does he speak from [his own] inclination. It is not but a revelation revealed,''



4) He will also announce to you the events of the future which is IRREFUTABLE with Prophet Muhammds more than 240 prophecies with over 80 % fullfilled the remaining awaited to be full filled but poor Holy GHOST did not prophesize even just ONE Prophesy . ONLY THIS PROOF IS ENOUGH TO PROVE COMFORTER WAS NEVER AND NOT THE HOLY GHOST WHICH NEVER MADE NOT EVEN ONE PROPHESY



5) He will glorify me,, where and how did the holy Ghost Glorified Jesus when the world lead by the Jews were calling Jesus with 7 letter filthy word and was insulting his Mother Maryam , so what was the Holy Ghost doing for 600 years ?
watching HBC ? ( Hebrew brodcasting Channel ? ) BUT I will CHALLENGE YOU ITS ONLY PROPHET MUHAMMAD '' an OUTSIDER glorified dignified Jesus for 1st time after 600 years of blasphemy and indeed man is very ungrateful than dogs and Jesus says (something like that too ) calling them the people of ''inequity or lawlessness '' in Matthew 7:22-23 and those who claim Muhammad (pbuh) did not glorify Jesus will surely come under this



6) he will receive from what is mine and announce it to youAgain its only Muhammad the prophet who received or continued the POST of the Prophethood from after Jesus(pbuh) and announced to you all that he was the continual of Prophet Hood of Jesus and is proved so as no Prophet or a major religion came in between Jesus and Muhammad (pbuh) is another proof of it.



Conclusion Tal: 9 Arb : 1 : : ( only John 14:26, 'a contradiction' like many other contradictions in the NT that helps the Christians ) in favor of Muhammad (pbuh) is the another and Last comforter of the worldwho was also foretold in every major religion of the world.''

37On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. 38Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.”
39 By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

40On hearing his words, some of the people said, “Surely this man is the Prophet.”

41Others said, “He is the Messiah.”

Still others asked, “How can the Messiah come from Galilee? 42Does not Scripture say that the Messiah will come from David’s descendants and from Bethlehem, the town where David lived?” 43Thus the people were divided because of Jesus. 44Some wanted to seize him, but no one laid a hand on him.

From john 7



Surah 108. Abundance, Plenty

1.*To thee have We granted the Fount (of Abundance).2.*Therefore to thy Lord turn in Prayer and Sacrifice.3.*For he who hateth thee, he will be cut off (from Future Hope).


Imam Ahmad recorded from Anas bin Malik that a man said, "O Messenger of Allah! What is Al-Kawthar He replied: (It is a river in Paradise which my Lord has given me. It is whiter than milk and sweeter than honey. There are birds in it whose necks are (long) like carrots.) `Umar said, "O Messenger of Allah! Verily, they (the birds) will be beautiful. The Prophet replied,(The one who eats them (i.e., the people of Paradise) will be more beautiful than them, O `Umar.)
Narrated Anas bin Malik : The Prophet said: "While I was walking in Paradise (on the night of Mi'raj), I saw a river, on the two banks of which there were tents made of hollow pearls. I asked, "What is this, O Gabriel?' He said, 'That is the Kauthar which Your Lord has given to you.' Behold! Its scent or its mud was sharp smelling musk!" (The sub-narrator, Hudba is in doubt as to the correct expression.)[8][9]
Narrated Ibn 'Abbas : The word 'Al-Kauthar' means the abundant good which Allah gave to him (the Prophet Muhammad). Abu Bishr said: I said to Sa'id ibn Jubayr, "Some people claim that it (Al-Kauthar) is a river in Paradise." Said replied, "The river that is in Paradise is one item of that good which Allah has bestowed upon him (Muhammad)." [10][11]
Narrated Abu ʿUbaidah : I asked 'Aisha 'regarding the verse:--'Verily we have granted you the Kauthar.' She replied, "The Kauthar is a river which has been given to your Prophet on the banks of which there are (tents of) hollow pearls and its utensils are as numberless as the stars."[12]

Narrated Haritha bin Wahb : I heard the Prophet mentioning the Lake-Fount (Al-Kauthar), saying, "(The width of the Lake-Fount) is equal to the distance between Medina and Sana' (capital of Yemen)." Haritha said that he heard the Prophet saying that his Lake-Fount would be as large as the distance between Sana' and Medina. Al-Mustaurid said to Haritha, "Didn't you hear him talking about the vessels?" He said, "No." Al-Mustaurid said, "The vessels are seen in it as (numberless as) the stars."[13]

Narrated Anas bin Malik : One day the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) was sitting amongst us that he dozed off. He then raised his head smilingly. We said: What makes you smile. Messenger of Allah? He said: A Sura has just been revealed to me, and then recited: In the name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful. Verily We have given thee Kauthar (fount of abundance). Therefore, turn to thy Lord for prayer and offer sacrifice, and surely thy enemy is cut off (from the good). Then he (the Holy Prophet) said: Do you know what Kauthar is? We said: Allah and His Messenger know best. The Holy Prophet (may peace be upon him) said: It (Kauthar) is a canal which my Lord, the Exalted and Glorious has promised me, and there is an abundance of good in it. It is a cistern and my people would come to it on the Day of Resurrection, and tumblers there would be equal to the number of stars. A servant would be turned away from (among the people gathered there). Upon this I would say: My Lord, he is one of my people, and He (the Lord) would say: You do not know that he innovated new things (in Islam) after you. Ibn Hujr made this addition in the hadith:" He (the Holy Prophet) was sitting amongst us in the mosque, and He (Allah) said: (You don't know) what he innovated after you"[14]

Narrated Sahl ibn Sa'd : I heard the Prophet saying, "I am your predecessor at the Lake-Fount (Kauthar), and whoever will come to it, will drink from it, and whoever will drink from it, will never become thirsty after that. There will come to me some people whom I know and they know me, and then a barrier will be set up between me and them." Abu Sa'id Al-Khudri added that the Prophet further said: "I will say those people are from me. It will be said, 'You do not know what changes and new things they did after you.' Then I will say, 'Far removed (from mercy), far removed (from mercy), those who changed (the religion) after me! "[15]
Narrated Asma' : The Prophet said, "

Corruption of the Bible is not absolute. If it was, there would be no similarities. There are many things that would flow in the messages throughout time. From Noah, Abraham, Jacob, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad (pbuta).

The difference is in the description of Jesus and Mary, in the main. Maybe some other minor stuff.

Hope you understand. Why rely on a book that is a translation of a translation that has been revised countless times when we have original Words in the Quran telling His.

It is not being arrogant. But it is clear. The Quran is the Truth. Deny it all you like, it changes nothing. It still remains the truth.

For their time, they had their prophets, for our times we have our prophet. Our times are to follow the final messenger. And the preservation of the Quran is a clear 'Sign'.

Please..

Every year live recitations of the Quran from Mecca is aired on national tv. Variations would be noticed. Islam has been around over a thousand years where I'm from. I don't think my quran would be different except in the way it is written anywhere in the world. Recited, with exception of accent, similar throughout the world.

Yes, there are Shia and others. I don't know if they are even muslims. But that is Allah's domain.

On the destroying of manuscripts. Yes, agreed that it is sure that not all were. But they were all scrips and scraps. Once all the verses compiled into a complete Book, there was no need for the original scraps. The compiled Book then became the standard and the alphabets became more embellished to indicate the vowel such as aa ee oo.

So those scrap did not in anyway, even if survived the ages, make anywhere near the full Quran.

format_quote Originally Posted by goodwill

Our heavenly Father is quite liberal with bestowing the Holy Spirit. The Lord Jesus taught, “If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall [your] heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?” (Luke 11:13).

.....ask who?

ok maybe I am assuming people may also ask outside of the church..

although the priests probably like some down time..

if there is such a thing.

although maybe people just have to ask Allah swt.. which is a whole other ballgame.

either way, I have no idea how to give good gifts...

Allah swt is the sustainer, he makes of our actions what he wills.

Sometimes it feels like turning up is enough.

(iv only seen people ask of each other)

format_quote Originally Posted by goodwill

To present a serious Biblical argument, one must consider the whole Biblical context and avoid making arbitrary assertions based on one's own preferences. Otherwise, there is eisegesis instead of exegesis.

Hi Goodwill,
I agree with your your assertion above '' one must consider the whole Biblical context and avoid making arbitrary assertions based on one's own preferences '' and this what the Trinitarians have been doing untill 2016 '' making arbitrary assertions based of their 's own preferences ''(like you said above )throwing Away what BOTH The Bible & Jesus said in a desperation of deifying Jesus with a very few verses like '' I and My Father are one '' , which can mean anything like ONE in purpose, righteousness etc and NOT ONE in Person as Mr Deedat proves here in an great audience of Priests & Pastors here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTT5BiS9kxk

They throw out Jesus's own words verses like John 10:29 ''My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, ''

Matthew 5:9 ''How blessed are those who make peace!
for they will be called sons of God.''


''All who are led by God’s Spirit are God’s sons.''

Mark 10:18 '' Yeshua said to him, “Why are you calling me good? No one is good except God!''


John 20:17 ''.......... ‘I’m going up to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”

John 4:44 '' Now Yeshua himself said, “A Prophet is not respected in his own country.”





And Also throw away Bible's verses like

Leviticus 26:1-8 '' Ye shall make you NO idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the Lord your God.

2 Ye shall keep my sabbaths, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the Lord.''

And Many more and that's why even most of the Jews consider trinitarians as 'polytheists'

format_quote Originally Posted by goodwill

Here is an example of exegesis regarding the passage in question:

John 14:16-17, 26; 15:26; 16:7

The other principal passage that Muslims appeal to is from the Gospel of John. What is ironic is that the Gospel of John which so forcefully advocates the Deity of Christ and amplifies the identity of Jesus as Son of God is also one of the main texts that receive the most scathing attack from Muslims.

This in not true as in Gospel of John Jesus said all these in it

John 1:18 "no man hath seen God at any time"

John 20:17 ''.......... ‘I’m going up to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”

John 4:44 '' Now Yeshua himself said, “A Prophet is not respected in his own country.” & John 4:24 too

All those words of ''Father" in John or elsewhere by Jesus referred to ''God'' in a figurative way like using the term '' Son '' Israel is the son of god . David is the son of God etc So that will Make Jesus the 3rd son of God if used literally.


Since Jesus was a Jew so he called God as the father proof is here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_the_Father

format_quote Originally Posted by goodwill

Here again the inconsistent methodology used by Muslims becomes apparent. Where they feel the gospel of John can be used to support the Qur’an, it is right, where it does not, it is wrong. In short, the reader will note that there is no concern for the biblical texts themselves or whether they can stand on their own merit. They are arbitrarily and selectively used by Muslims to suit the Qur’an. This would be the same as Christians using the Qur’an to prove the Bible whenever it agrees with it and rejecting when it does not. Our Muslim friends would be quick to charge us with inconsistency here and yet this futile exercise is always practiced in Islamic dialogues with Christians. It should always be remembered that an inconsistent methodology and argument, are always signs of a failed argument because in the end they are contrived.

Yes When the OT was Corrupted consequently Jesus appeared to show the truth and the Way of God to the Jews . Similarly The Last Prophet of God, Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) appeared with the Noble Quran to be used as The Criterion untill the last days of this Earth and this is also proved when we see no other Major Religion or Scripture after Islam. So its Logic that Muslims deny certain verses and accept certain verses WHICH ARE STILL IN TACT such as the traits of Prophet Muhammad (Pbuh) and other commandments Which The Last UPDATED TESTAMENT The Noble Quran approves of. Even Bart Erhman, the 30 year experienced Bible Scholar accepts that NT was a very poorly documented Scripture even in comparison to the Old Testament.

So Many verses of Gospel of John clearly proves who was that ' ANOTHER COMFORTER '' except the verse 14 :26 above supports such trinitarian view CONTRADICTING All Most all other verses about the Comforter, (proving it below with your own quotes Inshallah) and such CONTRADICTIONS are NOT NEW TO THE BIBLE

format_quote Originally Posted by goodwill

Turning to the gospel of John let us examine a few passages:


“And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.” (John 14:16-17)


"But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.” (John 14:26)

"When the Counselor comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me." (John 15:26)

“But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you.” (John 16:7)


The word “Counselor” in these passages comes from the Greek word“parakletos”and literally means “called to one’s side”. Thus one who is called to one’s side provides counsel, comfort, aid, help, etc and thus this word has also been translated as “Comforter”, “Helper”, “Intercessor”, and “Advocate” in other Bible translations, but they all convey the same idea. What is interesting is the Muslim claim that the “Counselor” or “Comforter” in these passages in John’s gospel is really in fact Muhammad. Moreover, they make the claim that the original Greek word here is not “parakletos” but “periklutos” which means the “praised one”, and is the equivalent of the Arabic name Ahmad, which Muslims claim is the short form of the name Muhammad. In the Qur’an it is stated that Jesus predicted the coming of “Ahmad” (Qur’an 61:6) whom Muslims say is Muhammad. Since Jesus predicted Muhammad’s coming, Muslims allege that the record of that prediction is found in John 14-16.

Muslims are not supposed to lie in their Religion so I would not Lie that I know Greek and all its meanings so i will not argue on this word '' “parakletos” but “periklutos” but most of the Muslim Scholars have told it meant ' the Praised one ', which is the translation of Ahmad when Names Should not be translated , Mr Black should be translated as Mr Black in any language not Mr Dum (in thai means Black) though he is white. Similarly Muhammad im in 5:16 in song of songs has been translated to '' Lovely '' which is another BLUNDER by the PEOPLE OF THE BOOK to hide the truth with a false lovers story (What does a lovers story have to do with the Torah ? ) made in the OT who also transfered this Chapter from the main Torah to the Ketuvim in the restructuring they did to their OT in the 8th century after the arrival of the noble Quran .

but still even your above words I quote
'' “parakletos”and literally means “called to one’s side”. Thus one who is called to one’s side provides counsel, comfort, aid, help, etc and thus this word has also been translated as “Comforter”, “Helper”, “Intercessor”

still applies to a Prophet of Religion who gave comfort , counsel, aid, help to their believers as Prophet Muhammad is. AND THE TRAITS ABOUT THE COMFORTER FROM JOHN 16 & MORE as in post # 3 WILL NEVER SUIT A SPIRIT , LITERALLY with tongues of fire as seen in the Pentecost Incident & the Holy Spirit did not call any one to its side which is meant by your explanation of Comforter” or “Counsellor” or "Advocate" ie ''one called to the side of another,'' But Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) EXACTLY did that''called the world to Worship the Creator than from worshipping the Created ''

format_quote Originally Posted by goodwill

Again this is the selective methodology that we see in Muslim apologetics. The Bible is corrupted, except when they can use it to buttress Islam.The major problem with this approach is that all of the Greek manuscripts we have of John’s gospel ALL contain the word“parakletos”, which as we saw means “Counselor” or “Comforter” and never “periklutos”. We have over 5700 Greek manuscripts. Of the many that we possess, not one of them differs on this reading in John 14-16. Scores of these ancient manuscripts predate Islam. It should also be remembered that “parakletos” is a noun whereas “periklutos” is an adjective, thus grammatically they are different words altogether. The Comforter Jesus spoke of is not a human being, but as the text identifies is rather the Holy Spirit. “Counselor”, “Holy Spirit” and “Spirit of truth” are interchangeable terms speaking of the same Person.

Its already replied that Prophets, Scriptures arrive when the Older Scripture gets CORRUPTED and its PROVED TOO NO MAJOR RELIGION OR PROPHET AFTER ISLAM

This is your clear assumption “Counselor”, “Holy Spirit” and “Spirit of truth” are ONE & THE SAME . is proved wrong here

John 14:16Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

16 and I will ask the Father, and he will give you ANOTHER comforting Counselor ''like me,'' the Spirit of Truth, to be with you forever.

Note : What does the word '' Another " Mean when the Holy spirit was always with Jesus ? and his disciples ? according to NT is the First proof & ''LIKE ME '' ie in Flesh LIKE ''Jesus '' and all know Jesus was still ALIVE (not in spirit form after crucifixion) when he spoke these words so It did not refer to any Spirit in the second proof.


John 16:7-8Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

7 But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I don’t go away, the comforting Counselor will not come to you. However, if I do go, I will send him to you.''

Note : Here too is says Comforter, Counselor was NOT the same Holy Spirit which already dwelled with them but some one NEW to come later .


Spirit of Truth was used here in a figurative again as there many in the bible like Spirit of slavery, Spirit of Wisdom . Spirit of Jealousy, etc all from the Bible.

John 16:13-15 Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

13 However, when the Spirit of Truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own initiative but will say only what he hears. He will also announce to you the events of the future. 14 He will glorify me, because he will receive from what is mine and announce it to you.''

Note : The Holy ghost did not guide the disciples to the truth or secret of pure birth of Jesus & his Chaste mother (while the world & even some christians doubted miraculous birth and Jews were the lead in blaspheming Jesus) and the Holy Spirit spoke of its own and did not wait to hear from any source like revelations Nor it Prophesied anything about the future ( Prophet Muhammad about 240 prophesies) Nor It Glorified Jesus (called him pure) so this would be done by the SPIRIT OF TRUTH ie Al ameen , The Prophet of Islam who received the Prophethood after Jesus and announced it to the world

John 14:16Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

16 and I will ask the Father, and he will give you another comforting Counselorlike me, the Spirit of Truth, to be with you forever.

Note : Here Jesus Claims himself to be the 'SPIRIT OF TRUTH '' here as all Prophets are but such title was dedicated to Prophet even from his childhood or Youth as ''Al Ameen '' or ''As Sadique".

format_quote Originally Posted by goodwill

The fact that Jesus uses the masculine gender “he” and “his” doesn’t infer He is speaking of a human being. God is also spoken of in the Bible and Qur’an in the masculine gender, and yet God is Spirit (John 4:24). Similarly Jesus speaks of the Counselor as a Spirit, not as a man. The text logically bears this out. The irony in the Muslim use of John 14-16 is that these chapters are heavily Trinitarian in nature. They speak of the economical Trinity and how the Persons of the Godhead function. For instance, the Father sends the Holy Spirit in the name of the Son (John 14:26). The Son also sends the Holy Spirit from the Father (John 15:26). Let us examine what Jesus said about the Counselor/Comforter and see if it fits the description of Muhammad:


1)“He [the Father] will give you another Comforter”. Jesus promised the disciples that the Father would give them another Comforter. During His earthly life, Jesus had been their Comforter.

So You Contradicted yourselves in your below quote The “The Comforter ,Counselor”, “Holy Spirit” and “Spirit of truth” WERE THE SAME and claim here That Jesus was that Comforter who was still in FLESH AND NOT A HOLY SPIRIT in his earthly life which Muslims have been claiming see your quote here

format_quote Originally Posted by goodwill

The Comforter Jesus spoke of is not a human being, but as the text identifies is rather the Holy Spirit. “Counselor”, “Holy Spirit” and “Spirit of truth” are interchangeable terms speaking of the same Person.

format_quote Originally Posted by goodwill

Now that He was going to leave them, He promised them another Comforter in His absence, the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is “another Comforter” which implies more than one. In another New Testament passage Jesus is also called the “parakletos” (same word used of the Holy Spirit in John 14-16), our Advocate with God (1 John 2:1). The other “Comforter” was as He said, “the Spirit of truth”. If Jesus meant Muhammad by the word “Comforter”, would it not be absurd for Jesus to have said “He will give you another Muhammad”? The disciples did not have to wait 600 years for the Comforter to come, He came over a month after the death and resurrection of Jesus on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:1-4).

There were 11 or 12 disciples who even Fled away in fear to the farthest places ( Bart Erhman says those cities like to Italy) and do you mean they gathered immediately in about a Month at the Pentecost ??? People used to travel months even at 7th century. I think they were using mobile & internet then ? even under opposition of Jews & the Roman King ?? and there were 150 disciples is the claim from your books ?? Not 11 or 25 or 50 in a month or so. Let the reader decide.

Jesus Said the COMFORTER will Guide them unto all Truth so do yo mean all were Misguided just in a month after meeting Jesus ???

format_quote Originally Posted by goodwill

2) “To be with you forever”. Jesus promised the Comforter would be with His disciples forever. Muhammad did not stay with his people forever but died in A.D. 632. The Comforter, the Holy Spirit has been with the Church for 2000 years.

Comforter Muhammad lives with us in actions (sunnah the Path) and with his Guarded Book the Noble Quran for ever (Untill the last days of this world) its spoken again figuratively like they say Elvis Lives ?? Its means his Fans so we the Fans of Prophet Muhammad . So the Holy Spirit, The Comforter, Counselor broke Christians into 41000 denominations in 2000 years ??

format_quote Originally Posted by goodwill

3) “You know him” The disciples of Jesus knew the Comforter. Muhammad was not born until more than 500 years later and therefore was obviously not known by the disciples of Jesus.

These Below Verses Refers ONLY to Jesus, The Comforter which you agreed above whom they know well.

format_quote Originally Posted by goodwill

4) “He dwells with you”. The Comforter, the Holy Spirit dwelled with the disciples of Jesus and thus this was something the disciples experienced in their lifetime. Muhammad was not even born yet.

Its again Jesus The Comforter whom you agreed a while ago he is the comforter and dwelled with the disciples . Dwells means eating & living together which the HOLY SPIRIT NEVER DID but Jesus Did.

format_quote Originally Posted by goodwill

5) “He will be in you”.The Comforter, the Holy Spirit would be in the disciples and by extension all believers in Jesus. This shows that the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is a spiritual reality, not a physical one. This can never be said of Muhammad.

It means the Love like someone lives in your heart and it describes here the comforter Jesus will live in Heart .

format_quote Originally Posted by goodwill

It is clear from a consistent and honest reading of all the texts mentioned above that the Muslim claim that Muhammad is prophesied in the Bible is absolutely baseless. One can make the Bible or any book saying anything one wishes if context is ignored. The same is true of the Qur’an. If we are going to appreciate proper exegesis (“reading out”) of the Bible we have to be consistent with its context, its grammar, and its historical setting. When the Bible is read this way it will become quickly evident that the Bible does not predict the coming of Muhammad at all. It rather points to Him who is the theme and subject of its focus, the One of whom the disciples testified, “We have found the one Moses wrote about in the Law, and about whom the prophets also wrote—Jesus of Nazareth” (John 1:45).

Yes the CONTEXT is important so the context was clearly used here to Prove that the Comforter Jesus spoke about was someone like Jesus himself ( WHICH YOU ALREADY AGREED ) in FLESH & is THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH who will Guide the world unto the truth.


Note : May need edition addition later Inshallah.

format_quote Originally Posted by goodwill

Variations have been noticed. The differences between the Arabic Hafs and Warsh versions are probably the best known. Twenty-six different Arabic Qurans recently displayed in London elicited a boisterous reaction: //www. youtube.com/watch?v=DnorKE_tWHA

Yes maybe so. I am told there is now there are Bible in Arabic. That could be a variation too!

Some with more 'surahs' etc. That is not Quran then.

But the major difference you are saying is a dilect. It does nothing to oppose any rule or teaching but merely of descriptive differences. No conflict.

format_quote Originally Posted by goodwill

If the Bible has been corrupted, then that is a problem not only for me, but for you too, because the Quran itself repeatedly confirms the inspiration, authority, and preservation of the Bible. Suras 2, 3, 5, and 7 for starters.

The Noble Quran says The Injeel was from Allah but it has been distorted




5:15-18 ''O People of the Scripture, there has come to you Our Messenger making clear to you much of what you used to conceal of the Scripture and overlooking much. There has come to you from Allah a light and a clear Book.''By which Allah guides those who pursue His pleasure to the ways of peace and brings them out from darknesses into the light, by His permission, and guides them to a straight path.''They have certainly disbelieved who say that Allah is Christ, the son of Mary. Say, "Then who could prevent Allah at all if He had intended to destroy Christ, the son of Mary, or his mother or everyone on the earth?"

format_quote Originally Posted by goodwill

You don’t seem to know how translations of the Bible are done. Modern translations are not translations of a translation. The New Testament is translated from Greek manuscripts (Greek being the original language of the New Testament), some or many of which manuscripts predate Muhammad’s time.

Aramaic was The Original language of Jesus & his Injeel but the first known NT after the Influence of Apostle Paul was in Greek and in my opinion The Aramaic speaking Jesus never told this '' I am the Alpha and the Omega,” since they are Greek Alphabets since Jesus never spoke Greek and an example how much the NT could have been distorted with the influence of Polytheists Greeks ?

format_quote Originally Posted by goodwill

The Quran itself has not been preserved perfectly. The Caliph Uthman would not have burned the variant copies of the Quran that existed in his day, if there had been no disagreements among the copies. The hadiths even say a goat or sheep ate part of the original Quran and so that page was lost. Even today the official 1924 text of the Quran differs both from other modern versions of the Quran and from the six earliest existing Quranic manuscripts. You are welcome to ask me for the sources to back up these claims.

Caliph Uthman only REAFFIRMED the Noble Quran in 653 AD ( not recompiled nor wrote the earlier Original Quran COMPILED into one book ,{SINCE the Quran was always there seen in Prophets Sermon** by Abubackr 1 year after Prophet's demise in 633 AD ) into a standard copy in one Quraishi Dialect (as it is read today) with the help of Huffaz or Memorizers of The Noble Quran who were still in 1000's (including kids, The Miracle) & Even the Team for this Purpose under Zaid Bin Thabbit who was also the head of compilation in 633 AD ie one year after Prophet's demise in 632 AD . Caliph Uthman did this to avoid difference in recitations as Islam spread far away from Arabia and that's why he burned those many many parchments in different dialects but the Abu Bakr's Original was returned to Hafsa , the wife of Prophet and was not burned proves the !st Original was no different to the reaffirmed Quran by Uthman in 653 AD. This is a sahih hadith on this matter
.
Bukhari :: Book 6 :: Volume 61 :: Hadith 510
Narrated Anas bin Malik: Hudhaifa bin Al-Yaman came to Uthman at the time when the people of Sham and the people of Iraq were Waging war to conquer Arminya and Adharbijan (Azerbaijan) . Hudhaifa was afraid of their (the people of Sham and Iraq) differences in the recitation of the Qur'an, so he said to 'Uthman, "O chief of the Believers! Save this nation before they differ about the Book (Quran) as Jews and the Christians did before." So 'Uthman sent a message to Hafsa saying, "Send us the manuscripts of the Qur'an so that we may compile the Qur'anic materials in perfect copies and return the manuscripts to you." Hafsa sent it to 'Uthman. 'Uthman then ordered Zaid bin Thabit, 'Abdullah bin AzZubair, Said bin Al-As and 'AbdurRahman bin Harith bin Hisham to rewrite the manuscripts in perfect copies. 'Uthman said to the three Quraishi men, "In case you disagree with Zaid bin Thabit on any point in the Qur'an, then write it in the dialect of Quraish, the Qur'an was revealed in their tongue." They did so, and when they had written many copies, 'Uthman returned the original manuscripts to Hafsa. 'Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied, and ordered that all the other Qur'anic materials, whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt. Said bin Thabit added, "A Verse from Surat Ahzab was missed by me when we copied the Qur'an and I used to hear Allah's Apostle reciting it. So we searched for it and found it with Khuzaima bin Thabit Al-Ansari. (That Verse was): 'Among the Believers are men who have been true in their covenant with Allah.' (33.23)



For Details into the Precision of compilation of the Noble Quran kindly read post # 42 here


http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...ption+of+sikhs

format_quote Originally Posted by goodwill

Variations have been noticed. The differences between the Arabic Hafs and Warsh versions are probably the best known. Twenty-six different Arabic Qurans recently displayed in London elicited a boisterous reaction: //www. youtube.com/watch?v=DnorKE_tWHA

So I went to an Islamic bookstore and asked "what versions of Quran do you have?"

he said "go next door to the Good News bookstore and ask them - we like other Islamic bookstores only have the original and remain unaware of 'versions' but our cousins in faith, the Christians have many versions of their New Testament - maybe to cover their embarrassment they also manufacture versions of the Quran... But you know, if you wish to learn how to bake bread, go to a baker not to a cowboy"

Sound advice

Scimi

format_quote Originally Posted by goodwill

Talibilm,
To address some of your specific points:


1. On John 10:29, we must ask the question, In what sense is the Father greater than all? In honor? Jesus said we must honor the Son as we honor the Father (John 5:23). In power? Jesus said the Son can do what the Father can do (John 5:19). In the context of chapter 10, Jesus went on to speak of the OT judges who were called “gods.” They had authority from God. Is the Father greater than all in the sense of authority? Yes, the Father is “greater than all” in authority, greater than the Son, since he who sends is greater in authority than he who is sent. However, a difference in authority does not imply an inequality of nature, just as your nation’s rulers are greater than you in authority but equal to you in nature or humanity. Note that Jesus Himself uses the word “greater” to mean “greater in authority” as in John 13:16.

Goodwill, It seems am wasting time with some one who does not know his own NT . there are 110,000 contradictions in the NT and am tired of teaching this to Christians who keep arguing , since its easy to wake up a person sleeping than who pretends to sleep. but still you want it & so here it is.


Acts 2:22 "Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know."


John 5:30 '' I can’t do anything by myself.''

format_quote Originally Posted by goodwill

2. The verses you cited afterward do not prove anything, nor do they indicate specifically what your point is. Christians are aware of these verses, too. We rejoice to know that we are the sons and daughters of God in Jesus, who is, uniquely, the “only-begotten” Son of God. I might add that God is your Father, too, talibilm—bilmiyor musun?

Yes , this begotten theory was influence of the polytheist Greeks (in which THE NT was translated first) who ALWAYS believed God had sex to beget (Jupiter, Hercules, see Nude images, lol ) , which is ridiculous which Spoils the honour of God whom you Claim to honor Even Sara in 90's gave birth to Issac though Sara was INFERTILE is BIGGER MIRACLE than Mary who was still fertile. Similar was John born to Zacharia in 90's to his INFERTILE wife Too , is a bigger miracle . So you people have LOST your SENSE when you slander GOD to beget one of his creations by Siring, an animal act. This is what Jesus told which the Comforter will TEACH YOU .


John 16 :8 '' 8 “When he comes, he will show that the world is wrong about sin, about righteousness and about judgment —''

Christians under trinity are under wrong Judgement.

The NOBLE Quran 4:171 '' O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.''

format_quote Originally Posted by goodwill

3. You claimed that the OT was corrupted. Jesus never said the OT was corrupted. Jesus pointed people to the OT. He would not point them to a corrupt book. Even the Quran points people to the Bible. When and where was the OT corrupted? Please provide specific historical evidence to support your claim.

There were incidents when Jesus yelled at the Rabbi's for converting the synogogues into Robbers den and also as adulterous generations , and their killing of Prophets & took Intrest and they hid many verses and removed right words from their proper places and made their new words & verses too & Took Ezra as God, says the Noble Quran . Will post those verses when i am able to locate them.

format_quote Originally Posted by goodwill

4. The Quran, as I said before, confirms the inspiration, authority, and preservation of the Bible. Even the atheist Bart Ehrman affirms that the message of the NT has been preserved. So you seem to disagree with the Quran as well as Ehrman.

Now I am loosing my interest completely when you even lie on this Open truth & i feel I am just wasting time with time wasters LISTEN to BART WHO IS REALLY WITH SPIRIT OF TRUTH ,IN TRUE SENSE..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-cZncVmtIU

format_quote Originally Posted by goodwill

5. I studied ancient Greek formally for 2 years. I can tell you that “most of the Muslim Scholars” are mistaken about the Greek word, “parakletos” or Paraclete, if they really think it should be “periklutos.” The term “periklutos” is not in the Greek original. It is a complete fabrication.

Its known who you are from my above words So It will be clever of me If I beleive my Muslims Scholars who do not lie in matters of Religion.

format_quote Originally Posted by goodwill

6. You seemed to claim that the Holy Spirit, the Comforter, and the Spirit of Truth are different beings. But in John chapter 14, Jesus calls the same Comforter both the Spirit of Truth (John 14:16) and the Holy Spirit (John 14:26). He is one Being.

one of the 110,000 contradictions which is NOT NEW TO your scriptures.

format_quote Originally Posted by goodwill

7. This Comforter, the Holy Spirit, was “like” Jesus because He did what Jesus did: teaching the disciples and reminding them of God’s word (John 14:27). If you read The Acts of the Apostles, you will see how the promised Holy Spirit worked among the disciples upon whom He was poured out at Pentecost (Acts 2). Let the Bible explain itself. Otherwise, you are ignoring the larger context.

Even I do that and many Christian Priests do that '' teaching the disciples and reminding them of God '' So Everyone became Jesus , Yeah

format_quote Originally Posted by goodwill

8. Do you also listen to the atheist Ehrman when he rejects the Quran? The disciples did not flee far away after the Crucifixion. They did not have trains, planes, or automobiles back then. The apostle John, in fact, was present at the cross during the Crucifixion (John 19:26,27).

They fled even to near Italy (ask Bart) each one away from the other for a while suspecting Treachery like Judas did. so could they reassemble in about a month from various places and also 150 of them, in a month.

Its not John but Peter who came to the Roman Court to see the trial of so called Jesus but when he was caught hold by the Soldiers he cried Vehemently & denied knowing Jesus.

format_quote Originally Posted by goodwill

9. The Greek word used in the quote for “dwell” means “remain” or “abide.” It does not imply that the person who dwells must live in a house and eat food. The Holy Spirit continues to abide in and remain with the Church in fact, and not merely metaphorically. And Jesus taught that the Father gives the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him (Luke 11:13). This is obviously not a reference to a future human prophet.

Holy spirit here and in many places in John does not mean literally but in figure of speech like Spirit of wisdom spirit of Jealousy which is also known from the NT. We also ask Allah to gives the Spirit of Worshiping him sincerely , it refers to the Zeal TO GUIDANCE and power & stamina (hidayah ) to worship him. LIKE THIS BELOW FROM NT from your frequently quoted Acts But you never realised it what it taught YOU.


Acts 10:38 "how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and Power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil,because God was with him."

(Talibilm says : This verse reiterates, Jesus did MIRACLES Because God was with him Not the HOLY SPIRIT WAS WITH HIM ) s


& also as in here when Holy Spirit that should carry the blessings in it mentioned separately is another Proof.

Isaiah 44:3 '' I will pour out my spirit upon your descendants
and my blessing upon your offspring ''

Proves both are Not one but means different aspects.

format_quote Originally Posted by goodwill

10. The various denominations of Christians make up the one Church. Muslims are also divided into Sunni, Shia, Ahmadi, Alawites, and the Bahais also recognize Muhammad as a prophet. Does that mean Islam is broken?

Muslims are less than 10 but with the same BASIC Shahada, 10 VS 41000 , You know who are really split even in the articles of Faith.

format_quote Originally Posted by goodwill

11. Even if people had misinterpreted and corrupted the Bible, that fact alone would not prove Muhammad was a true prophet. You cannot build your own house by destroying your neighbor’s house.

We Muslims are told to Protect the Neighbours house even if it belongs to an Israeli Jew. We are only asking to repair the Neighbour's house since we Love for others what we love for ourselves (sunnah) , But its upto him, if he leaves it to deteroriate .

format_quote Originally Posted by goodwill

12. Lastly, you have not refuted the accusation of using an arbitrary methodology. You still quote the NT when its words agree with your preconceptions and reject the NT when its words disagree with your preconceptions. This is the logical fallacy of begging the question. Instead of listening to the NT, as the Quran says to do, you make it say only what you want it to say. Why then do you fault Christians for doing the same thing you are doing?

Bring those verses that Noble Quran said to abide by the NT and lets see what it really said about.