About Christianity

format_quote Originally Posted by Robrog8999

Right? No Christian I know beleive this. Heck, I don't know anyone who believes this. That's denying the facts. Ignorant people I guess.

I'm guessing you are referencing non church going Christians, flaky types.

The church going ones are taught the earth is 6000 years old. And that's a fact.

Scimi

format_quote Originally Posted by Robrog8999

Your right. Most Jews do seem to know the bible better then most Christian's, sadly.

Well, the Old Testament is revealed in their language - and not English lol, so yeah, you can't be surprised or bitter about it.

format_quote Originally Posted by Robrog8999

It's such a large religion that there's so many off shoots and twisted teachings.
Christian's need to return to their Bible's and to God.

Which version of the NT bible? and which god?

Scimi

Greetings Robrog8999 and a belated welcome to the forum.

format_quote Originally Posted by Robrog8999

Because he's loves us and chose to save us out of love for us.

Really? Let us examine this more closely.

Christianity hinges on the fact, that according to Christians, God did not forgive Adam (peace be upon him) for eating from the tree, and that not only Adam but all subsequent generations have to bear a punishment from God, and fell out of grace with God, their relationship with God was severed, they are born into a state of sin, and death entered the world. They believe that God expects perfection from humans which humans can never achieve (partly because of the aforementioned sin), thus to atone for our imperfection and inability to meet God's expectation, and to reconcile people to God and repair the severed relationship, and to forgive (but in reality atone) people's sins, the sacrifice of an innocent man (who also happens to be God and/or his son) and his slow, bloody, and painful death comes into play. That is not love. That is injustice and cruelty.

With Allah forgiving Adam (peace be upon him) and honouring him and guiding him, as per Islam, none of the above is needed. In Islam, there is no concept of original sin, nor of God expecting perfection which cannot be achieved, nor of a broken relationship with God that requires reconciling, nor of damnation requiring a saviour. No innocent person is made to suffer or die for other's sins.

In Islam, as Adam and Eve (peace be upon them) asked for forgiveness and were forgiven, so we too ask for Allah's forgiveness for our sins, as He loves for us to turn to Him in repentance, and loves forgiving. This forgiveness comes freely, just by Allah's will, when we sincerely ask for forgiveness and truly repent. Forgiveness does not require any type of sacrifice by God, or any purchase price. Both Adam and Eve repented and were forgiven by their Loving, Merciful Lord; and indeed Adam was then chosen to be the first person to receive guidance from Allah, was honoured by Allah, and is counted among all the other Prophets of Islam.

In Islam, while guidance and the right way has been shown to us, we, as humans, have the freedom to choose, to err, and to repent sincerely, and should we do so, we will find Allah Kind & Forgiving. For all and any in the posterity of Adam, the door of returning to the right path is always open, prior to death.

We are required to struggle, and to make effort, and to show our commitment on our part, by believing and doing good deeds, and obeying God, and the teachings he sent His messengers with. Ultimately, salvation is through Allah's mercy.

It is actually denigrating to God's Power that He should not be able to forgive or remove sins without begetting a son and then sacrificing the son. It ascribes imperfection to God. This is not forgiveness, but atonement. One thing pays the price for another. Perfection is being able to forgive, freely, abundantly, at will. That is perfection. Islam recognises God's power to forgive with just His Will. Some of the other religions seem to claim that forgiveness requires a purchase price and if we can't pay it, somebody else has to pay it on our behalf. In Islam, forgiveness comes without a purchase price or sacrifice. We do not/cannot: buy, sacrifice for, earn or steal it. It comes freely when we sincerely ask for forgiveness and truly repent, accepting God's will.

The favourite Christian line from the bible, "For God so loved the world...(John 3:16)" when scrutinized, if you take it right back to why "...He gave his only son", doesn't add up at all. It shows a God who will not forgive, punishes other people for a sin they didn't commit, cuts off his relationship with them, makes them fall out of His grace, and makes them born into a state of sin, and has an innocent man killed in a torturous death to repair all of that. This paints the picture of an unforgiving, punishing, and unjust God, not a loving one.

Please ponder and reflect, and re-evaluate and reassess the basis for your own beliefs and doctrines. And it is that to which all people are invited by the Qur'an. Your beliefs regarding God, and which faith you follow, are the biggest, most serious and most important decisions you will ever make, as this life will end one day for all of us, and our position regarding God and His messengers is what makes or breaks our hereafter, which is forever. You owe it to yourself, to not regret in the hereafter, when it'll be too late. Please make the time for it. It'll be the most important thing you ever do. I invite you to believe in God who does not beget, nor is He begotten. He has no sons, daughters, spouses, siblings, parents, cousins, nephews or relatives of any sort. A God Who is Eternal and does not die. A God Who did not/does not, become flesh, dwell in human or animal bodies, nor are there any incarnations of Him. He is not mixed up in His creation in any way.

As you can see, the concept of God in Islam is clear, simple, logical, makes sense, and befits the Majesty of God. I invite you to join us in knowing, believing and accepting that.

Peace.

Jews are waiting for their Messiah still to come but neither Jews nor Christians are waiting for a final prophet after the Messiah as far as I know. However, we believe it was written in their scriptures that there would be a final prophet after the Messiah.

Quran 61:6 And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said: "O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Taurat (Law) (which came) before me, and giving Glad Tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad." But when he came to them with Clear Signs, they said, "This is evident sorcery!"

And their scolars knew it ver well but hide it.

Quran 2:146 Those whom We have given the Book recognize him (Mohammed) as they recognize their sons, and a party of them most surely conceal the truth while they know (it).

Jews and Christians claim that there is no mention of a final prophet after the Messiah in their scriptures but they cannot explain the below verses:

John:19 ¶ And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou?

20 And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ.

21 And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.

22 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself?

23 He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias.

24 And they which were sent were of the Pharisees.

25 And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet?

John 7:40 Many of the people therefore, when they heard this saying, said, Of a truth this is the Prophet.
41 Others said, This is the Christ. But some said, Shall Christ come out of Galilee?

So, Jews were waiting for "that Prophet" seperately from the Christ. Later they seem to forget it. Christians completely ignored it as well.

format_quote Originally Posted by tolpuddle

Jews don't regard Mohammed as The Prophet referred to by Moses.

Christians don't recognise any Prophecy subsequent to the completion of the Christian Scriptures c. 100 CE.

Hence why we have 3.... as you said about not recognising prophecy, despite having reference of him.

Not really arguing beliefs, just asking a question relating to the OP.

format_quote Originally Posted by tolpuddle

Neither Christians nor Jews regard any passage of their scriptures as referring to Mohammed.

Neither do jews regard any passage in the old testament as referring in any positive light to Jesus.
That doesn't necessarily make them correct in their illogical and unjustly biased denials. It just makes them "infidels".


What Allah has confirmed as being true - is true, since there is no doubt about Allah.

Most of us now believe through scriptural analysis and logical reasoning that Jesus (first appearance) (pbu"h") did not lack melanin and was not therefore blond haired and blue eyed, but this excerpt from an article on albinism is worth pondering:




Many cultures around the world have developed beliefs regarding people with albinism.

In African countries such as Tanzania[22] and Burundi,[23][24] there has been an unprecedented rise in witchcraft-related killings of people with albinism in recent years, because their body parts are used in potions sold by witchdoctors.[25] Numerous authenticated incidents have occurred in Africa during the 21st century.[26][27][28][29] For example, in Tanzania, in September 2009, three men were convicted of killing a 14-year-old albino boy and severing his legs in order to sell them for witchcraft purposes.[30] Again in Tanzania and Burundi in 2010, the murder and dismemberment of a kidnapped albino child was reported from the courts,[23] as part of a continuing problem. National Geographic estimates that in Tanzania a complete set of albino body parts is worth $75,000.[31][32]

Another harmful and false belief is that sex with an albinistic woman will cure a man of HIV. This has led, for example in Zimbabwe, to rapes (and subsequent HIV infection).[33]


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albinism



29“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. 30And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32Go ahead, then, and complete what your ancestors started!

33“You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? 34Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. 35And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36Truly I tell you, all this will come on this generation.

37“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. 38Look, your house is left to you desolate. 39For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’c ”

From Matthew 23




1. Praise be to Allah, Who hath sent to His Servant the Book, and hath allowed therein no Crookedness:

2. (He hath made it) Straight (and Clear) in order that He may warn (the godless) of a terrible Punishment from Him, and that He may give Glad Tidings to the Believers who work righteous deeds, that they shall have a goodly Reward,

3. Wherein they shall remain for ever:

4. Further, that He may warn those (also) who say, "(Allah) hath begotten a son":

5. No knowledge have they of such a thing, nor had their fathers. It is a grievous thing that issues from their mouths as a saying what they say is nothing but falsehood!

6. Thou wouldst only, perchance, fret thyself to death, following after them, in grief, if they believe not in this Message.

7. That which is on earth we have made but as a glittering show for the earth, in order that We may test them - as to which of them are best in conduct.

8. Verily what is on earth we shall make but as dust and dry soil (without growth or herbage).

From Quran, Chapter 18

Neither Christians nor Jews regard any passage of their scriptures as referring to Mohammed.

"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren,
like unto thee,
and I will put my words in his mouth;
and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him." (Deuteronomy.18:18).

First thing is "a prophet from among their brethren". Note that it does not say "from among them" but "from among their brethren". Who are the brethren of the israelites? The ishmaelites! If Ishmael and Isaac are the sons of the same father Abraham (peace be upon them all), then they are brothers. And so the children of the one are the brethren of the children of the other. So God is telling you that a Prophet will come, who is a descendent of Ishmael (peace be upon him).

Next: "Like unto thee".

Some say the verses refer to Jesus (peace be upon him) but let's put that to the test and examine the "like"s:

Both Moses (pbuh) and Muhammad (pbuh) had a mother and father, Jesus (pbuh) did not.
Both Moses (pbuh) and Muhammad (pbuh) had a normal birth, Jesus (pbuh) did not.
Both Moses (pbuh) and Muhammad (pbuh) married and had children, Jesus (pbuh) did not.
Both Moses (pbuh) and Muhammad (pbuh) were accepted by their people in their lifetime, while Jesus (pbuh) on the whole was not accepted by the Jews he was sent to.
Both Moses (pbuh) and Muhammad (pbuh) died natural deaths, Jesus (pbuh) did not.
And the list goes on...

So the Prophet like unto Moses (peace be upon him) is Muhammad (peace be upon him).

Next:"And I will put my words into his mouth"

History tells us that Muhummad (pbuh) was forty years of age. He was in a cave some three miles north of the City of Mecca. In the cave the Archangel Gabriel commands him in his mother tongue: 'Iqra'' which means Read! or Proclaim! or Recite! Muhummed (pbuh) was terrified and in his bewilderment replied that he was not learned! The angel commands him a second time with the same result. For the third time the angel continues.

Now Muhummad (pbuh) grasps what was required of him was to repeat. And he repeats the words as they were put into his mouth:

"Read! In the name of your Lord and Cherisher, who created-
Created man, from a clinging substance:

Read! And thy Lord is most bountiful,-
He who taught (the use of) the pen,

Taught man that which he knew not".
(Holy Qur'an 96:1-5)

These are the first five verses which were revealed to Prophet Muhummad (peace be upon him) which now occupy the beginning of the 96th chapter of the Holy Qur'an.

"If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account." (Deuteronomy 18:19)

"in my name" -113 chapters of the Qur'an as revealed by Allah to, and spoken by Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) all begin with "In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful." God's words, spoken by the Prophet, in His name. With this formula in fact, Muslims begin every lawful act. And in the first revelation to Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), mentioned above, what were the words that came immediately after Read? Have a look... "in the name of your Lord."

The Prophecy is fulfilled in Prophet Muhummad (peace be upon him) to the letter.

"If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account." (Deuteronomy 18:19)

So God is telling you in the Bible to believe in prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). And I invite you to do so.

O Mankind, the Messenger has come to you with the truth from your Lord, so believe; it is better for you. But if you disbelieve - then indeed, to Allah belongs whatever is in the heavens and earth. And ever is Allah Knowing and Wise. (Qur'an 4:70)

Say, [O Muhammad], "O mankind, indeed I am the Messenger of Allah to you all, [from Him] to whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth. There is no deity except Him; He gives life and causes death." So believe in Allah and His Messenger, the unlettered prophet, who believes in Allah and His words, and follow him that you may be guided. (7:158)

format_quote Originally Posted by tolpuddle

The Crucifixion is loving sacrifice

There is nothing loving about such a notion or concept.

With Allah forgiving Adam (peace be upon him) and honouring him and guiding him, as per Islam, none of the above is needed. In Islam, there is no concept of original sin, nor of God expecting perfection which cannot be achieved, nor of a broken relationship with God that requires reconciling, nor of damnation requiring a saviour. No innocent person is made to suffer or die for other's sins.

In Islam, as Adam and Eve (peace be upon them) asked for forgiveness and were forgiven, so we too ask for Allah's forgiveness for our sins, as He loves for us to turn to Him in repentance, and loves forgiving. This forgiveness comes freely, just by Allah's will, when we sincerely ask for forgiveness and truly repent. Forgiveness does not require any type of sacrifice by God, or any purchase price. Both Adam and Eve repented and were forgiven by their Loving, Merciful Lord; and indeed Adam was then chosen to be the first person to receive guidance from Allah, was honoured by Allah, and is counted among all the other Prophets of Islam:

See the following verse translations from the Qur'an:

They said, "Our Lord, we have wronged ourselves, and if You do not forgive us and have mercy upon us, we will surely be among the losers." (7:23)
Then Adam received from his Lord [some] words, and He accepted his repentance. Indeed, it is He who is the Accepting of repentance, the Merciful. (2:37)
Then his Lord chose him and turned to him in forgiveness and guided [him]. (20:122)

Prophet Adam (peace be upon him) repented sincerely, so God forgave him. As simple as that. No sacrifice needed.

I find Islam to be the only religion that recognises Allah's power to forgive with just His will. All other religions seem to claim that forgiveness requires a purchase price and if we can't pay it, somebody else has to pay it on our behalf.

In Islam, forgiveness comes without a purchase price or sacrifice. We do not/can not: buy, sacrifice for, earn or steal it. It comes freely when we sincerely ask for forgiveness and truly repent, accepting Allaah's will.

That is love - not a painful, torturous, and slow sacrifice.

format_quote Originally Posted by tolpuddle

Without the Atonement, God's readiness to forgive us would be capricious, not reasoned. And reasonable, God is - otherwise, nature, the universe, wouldn't be reasonable, following fixed laws.

Atonement = At-one-ment; Reconciliation.

It is actually denigrating to God's Power that He should not be able to forgive or remove sins without begetting a son and then sacrificing the son. It ascribes imperfection to God. This is not forgiveness, but atonement. One thing pays the price for another. Perfection is being able to forgive, freely, abundantly, at will. That is perfection.

format_quote Originally Posted by tolpuddle

God is, of course, absolutely One; but within that Oneness, there is Threeness, in no way contradicting the Oneness.

It absolutely and completely contradicts oneness.

Let's take the number 1. That number can be manipulated, by multiplying, dividing, adding or subtracting.

This is what various groups of people have wrongly done over the years with their beliefs about God.

Some have multiplied the number, and believe in many gods.

Others have divided the number, and believe in many gods in one, such as the trinity (or 3 = 1 or 1 = 3)

Some have added, by worshipping God, but then also worshipping and praying to others such as Mary (peace be on her), or saints etc along with Him.

And others, such as atheists, have subtracted, by saying there is no God.

Regardless of what people do to the number 1, it always remains the number 1 and does not itself change, and cannot itself never not be 1.

So what is the original and true belief without any change or manipulation?

1.

1slam.

format_quote Originally Posted by tolpuddle

Mysterious ? - well, yes - God IS mysterious (the more mysterious the more you think of God), His existence (before, above and outside time) a complete mystery.

In Islam there are no such mysteries or mental acrobatics to contend with. The concept of God is clear, simple, logical, makes sense, and befits the Majesty of God. Anyone from a young toddler, can understand, that:


There is only One God. He alone should be worshipped. He is our Creator, Sustainer, and Lord.

He does not beget, nor is He begotten. He has no sons, daughters, spouses, siblings, parents, cousins, or relatives of any sort.

He is eternal and does not die. He does not depend on anyone/anything yet we all depend on Him. He is free of all want and need.

There is nothing like Him. He is all Hearing, all Seeing, all Knowing, all Powerful, Incomparable, the Creator of the Universe.

He did not/does not, become flesh, dwell in human or animal bodies, nor are there any incarnations of Him. He is not mixed up in His creation in any way.

He is not composed of persons, nor a trinity. There are no secondary, lesser, greater, equal, or multiple gods, nor any intermediaries. And no denying of God's existence either.

There are no sharers, associates, persons or parts whatsoever in His exclusive Divinity. Simply, He is One, in every sense. One truly means One.

Peace.