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    Saturnalia: The Real Roots of Christmas

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    Saturnalia: The Real Roots of Christmas

    Many Christians today believe that Christmas is a Christian holiday. The fact is that people have been celebrating Christmas, long before the birth of Christ. The festivity was known then, as Saturnalia. Saturnalia was a festival in which the Romans commemorated the dedication of the temple of the god Saturn. As winter approached, they were losing harvest & were in need of the sun in order for their harvest to grow & bear fruit. Saturn was the Roman god of agriculture and harvest.

    This meant that the god Saturn was in need of the sun god in order to complete his job, therefore the attention was then shifted to the sun god. The Saturnalia custom is rooted in pagan & Celtic believes & traditions. They believed in human sacrifice including the sacrifice of small children & infants in which were offered to their gods in order to empower the sun to return with strength. They believed that winter was due to the sun losing its power due to a battle between the sun god & the god of the dead. Since winter is annually, they believed these battles were fought annually and thus the sacrifices had to be annually in order to appease or empower their respective gods. Because the sun always return at the beginning of the new year, they believed that its was due to all of their human sacrifices, and costum rituals that took effect; empowering their sun god to return each year victoriously.

    The Roman pagans introduced into their law December 17-25 as Saturnalia. During this period, Roman courts were closed, and Roman law dictated that no one could be punished for damaging property or injuring people during the week long celebration. The festival began when Roman authorities chose “an enemy of the Roman people” to represent the “Lord of Misrule.” Each Roman community selected a victim whom they forced to indulge in food and other physical pleasures throughout the week. At the festival’s conclusion, December 25th, Roman authorities believed they were destroying the forces of darkness by brutally murdering the innocent man or woman who they chose to represent “the forces of darkness”.

    In the 4th century The Roman Catholic Church adopted the Saturnalia festival hoping to take the pagan masses in with it. Chatolic leaders succeeded in converting to “Christianity” large numbers of pagans by promising them that they could continue to celebrate their Saturnalia as “Christmas”.Christians had little success, however, refining the practices of Saturnalia. As Stephen Nissenbaum, professor history at the University of Massachussetts, Amherst, writes, “In return for ensuring massive observance of the anniversary of the Savior’s birth by assigning it to this resonant date, the Church for its part tacitly agreed to allow the holiday to be celebrated more or less the way it had always been.” The earliest Christmas holidays were celebrated by drinking, sexual indulgence, singing naked in the streets (a precursor of modern caroling), etc.

    The problem was that there was nothing in relation to Christianity concerning Saturnalia. To remedy this, these so called Christian leaders named Saturnalia’s concluding day, December 25th to be Jesus’ birthday.

    As part of the Saturnalia carnival throughout the 18th and 19th centuries CE, rabbis of the poor places in Rome were forced to wear clown type of clothing and march through the city streets to the mocking of the crowd, heavely rained by a variety of missiles. When the Jewish community of Rome sent a petition in1836 to Pope Gregory XVI begging him to stop the annual Saturnalia abuse of the Jewish community, he responded, “It is not opportune to make any innovation. On December 25, 1881, Christian leaders whipped the Polish masses into Antisemitic frenzies that led to riots across the country. In Warsaw 12 Jews were brutally murdered, huge numbers were disable or disfigured, and many Jewish women were raped. Two million rubles worth of property was destroyed. Some foundation for a holyday they like to call “Christian”.

    Today, the same formula its being used when it comes to repackaging pagan practices and doctrines by just renaming them and giving them a “Christian” name. For instance, Rock & Roll music; So called Christian leaders believe a worldly or pagan person can join a Christian church with out having to leave their worldly Rock & Roll behind, because they can find Rock & Roll in the church too, “Christian Rock & Roll” that is! This is now offered by so called Christian churches today, supposedly to attract and convert the worldly.

    The list goes on and on, from Rock, to “Christian Rock”, to Yoga, to “Christian Yoga”, to porn, to “Christian porn”; That’s right… They now even have porn with the name “Christian” before it. These are a few of many traps laid to the undiscerning, designed to lead him into the wrong path, the one that does not lead to heaven, but to death & destruction.

    Although this is a different story, the method in which Satan operates, is exactly the same. The Roman Catholic church then, was not concerned with people’s souls, but rather with their contributions to their church. Today, nothing has changed!

    The Origins of Christmas Customs:

    A. Christmas Trees

    Just as early Christians recruited Roman pagans by associating Christmas with the Saturnalia, so too worshippers of the Asheira cult and its offshoots were recruited by the Church sanctioning “Christmas Trees Pagans had long worshipped trees in the forest, or brought them into their homes and decorated them, and this observance was adopted and painted with a Christian veneer by the Catholic Church. Jerimiah 10:3 says: “For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not”

    B. Mistletoe

    Norse mythology recounts how the god Balder was killed using a mistletoe arrow by his rival god Hoder while fighting for the female Nanna. Druid rituals use mistletoe to poison their human sacrificial victim. The Christian custom of “kissing under the mistletoe” is a later synthesis of the sexual license of Saturnalia with the Druidic sacrificial cult.

    C. Christmas Presents

    In pre-Christian Rome, the emperors compelled their most despised citizens to bring offerings and gifts during the Saturnalia (in December) and Kalends (in January). Later, this ritual expanded to include gift-giving among the general populace. The Catholic Church gave this custom a Christian flavor by re-rooting it in the supposed gift-giving of Saint Nicholas

    Santa Claus

    Nicholas was born in Parara, Turkey in 270 CE and later became Bishop of Myra. He died in 345 CE on December 6th. He was only named a saint in the 19th century. Most of Cristmas is celebrated after him for his contribution in marrying Saturnalia with the Catholic ”Christ mass”.

    …What fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?… (2 Corinthians 6:14 KJV)

    “A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit” Matthew 7:18

    And now you know the root of Christmas and whether it should be celebrated by bible believing Christians or not.

    Source: https://thetruthandlight.wordpress.c...-of-christmas/

    Therefore the fact of the matter is that Christmas, Easter and many other pagan Roman festivals have no basis in Biblical scriptures except that they infiltrated Roman Catholicism and into mainstream Christianity that is practised today.

    Many Christians say "It is the symbol of the birth of Christ that they are celebrating", but the fact remains that "Christmas" has nothing to do with Christianity and they are essentialy celebrating a Roman Pagan festival and giving offerings to a Roman Pagan idol.

    In modern times the only ones who benefit from Christmas are the big corporations to the detriment of society many of whom are forced to take out credit and loans to fund the yearly festival.

    Therefore open your heart towards searching for the truth for there is no truth in that which is corrupted with paganism and idolatry:

    Almighty Allah says: Pagans indeed are those who say that GOD is the Messiah, son of Mary. The Messiah himself said, "O Children of Israel, you shall worship GOD; my Lord* and your Lord." Anyone who sets up any idol beside GOD, GOD has forbidden Paradise for him, and his destiny is Hell. The wicked have no helpers. [5:72]
    Last edited by Hamza Asadullah; 12-09-2017 at 09:15 PM.
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    Saturnalia: The Real Roots of Christmas

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    Re: Saturnalia: The Real Roots of Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamza Asadullah View Post
    Saturnalia: The Real Roots of Christmas

    Many Christians today believe that Christmas is a Christian holiday. The fact is that people have been celebrating Christmas, long before the birth of Christ. The festivity was known then, as Saturnalia. Saturnalia was a festival in which the Romans commemorated the dedication of the temple of the god Saturn. As winter approached, they were losing harvest & were in need of the sun in order for their harvest to grow & bear fruit. Saturn was the Roman god of agriculture and harvest.

    This meant that the god Saturn was in need of the sun god in order to complete his job, therefore the attention was then shifted to the sun god. The Saturnalia custom is rooted in pagan & Celtic believes & traditions. They believed in human sacrifice including the sacrifice of small children & infants in which were offered to their gods in order to empower the sun to return with strength. They believed that winter was due to the sun losing its power due to a battle between the sun god & the god of the dead. Since winter is annually, they believed these battles were fought annually and thus the sacrifices had to be annually in order to appease or empower their respective gods. Because the sun always return at the beginning of the new year, they believed that its was due to all of their human sacrifices, and costum rituals that took effect; empowering their sun god to return each year victoriously.

    The Roman pagans introduced into their law December 17-25 as Saturnalia. During this period, Roman courts were closed, and Roman law dictated that no one could be punished for damaging property or injuring people during the week long celebration. The festival began when Roman authorities chose “an enemy of the Roman people” to represent the “Lord of Misrule.” Each Roman community selected a victim whom they forced to indulge in food and other physical pleasures throughout the week. At the festival’s conclusion, December 25th, Roman authorities believed they were destroying the forces of darkness by brutally murdering the innocent man or woman who they chose to represent “the forces of darkness”.

    In the 4th century The Roman Catholic Church adopted the Saturnalia festival hoping to take the pagan masses in with it. Chatolic leaders succeeded in converting to “Christianity” large numbers of pagans by promising them that they could continue to celebrate their Saturnalia as “Christmas”.Christians had little success, however, refining the practices of Saturnalia. As Stephen Nissenbaum, professor history at the University of Massachussetts, Amherst, writes, “In return for ensuring massive observance of the anniversary of the Savior’s birth by assigning it to this resonant date, the Church for its part tacitly agreed to allow the holiday to be celebrated more or less the way it had always been.” The earliest Christmas holidays were celebrated by drinking, sexual indulgence, singing naked in the streets (a precursor of modern caroling), etc.

    The problem was that there was nothing in relation to Christianity concerning Saturnalia. To remedy this, these so called Christian leaders named Saturnalia’s concluding day, December 25th to be Jesus’ birthday.

    As part of the Saturnalia carnival throughout the 18th and 19th centuries CE, rabbis of the poor places in Rome were forced to wear clown type of clothing and march through the city streets to the mocking of the crowd, heavely rained by a variety of missiles. When the Jewish community of Rome sent a petition in1836 to Pope Gregory XVI begging him to stop the annual Saturnalia abuse of the Jewish community, he responded, “It is not opportune to make any innovation. On December 25, 1881, Christian leaders whipped the Polish masses into Antisemitic frenzies that led to riots across the country. In Warsaw 12 Jews were brutally murdered, huge numbers were disable or disfigured, and many Jewish women were raped. Two million rubles worth of property was destroyed. Some foundation for a holyday they like to call “Christian”.

    Today, the same formula its being used when it comes to repackaging pagan practices and doctrines by just renaming them and giving them a “Christian” name. For instance, Rock & Roll music; So called Christian leaders believe a worldly or pagan person can join a Christian church with out having to leave their worldly Rock & Roll behind, because they can find Rock & Roll in the church too, “Christian Rock & Roll” that is! This is now offered by so called Christian churches today, supposedly to attract and convert the worldly.

    The list goes on and on, from Rock, to “Christian Rock”, to Yoga, to “Christian Yoga”, to porn, to “Christian porn”; That’s right… They now even have porn with the name “Christian” before it. These are a few of many traps laid to the undiscerning, designed to lead him into the wrong path, the one that does not lead to heaven, but to death & destruction.

    Although this is a different story, the method in which Satan operates, is exactly the same. The Roman Catholic church then, was not concerned with people’s souls, but rather with their contributions to their church. Today, nothing has changed!

    The Origins of Christmas Customs:

    A. Christmas Trees

    Just as early Christians recruited Roman pagans by associating Christmas with the Saturnalia, so too worshippers of the Asheira cult and its offshoots were recruited by the Church sanctioning “Christmas Trees Pagans had long worshipped trees in the forest, or brought them into their homes and decorated them, and this observance was adopted and painted with a Christian veneer by the Catholic Church. Jerimiah 10:3 says: “For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not”

    B. Mistletoe

    Norse mythology recounts how the god Balder was killed using a mistletoe arrow by his rival god Hoder while fighting for the female Nanna. Druid rituals use mistletoe to poison their human sacrificial victim. The Christian custom of “kissing under the mistletoe” is a later synthesis of the sexual license of Saturnalia with the Druidic sacrificial cult.

    C. Christmas Presents

    In pre-Christian Rome, the emperors compelled their most despised citizens to bring offerings and gifts during the Saturnalia (in December) and Kalends (in January). Later, this ritual expanded to include gift-giving among the general populace. The Catholic Church gave this custom a Christian flavor by re-rooting it in the supposed gift-giving of Saint Nicholas

    Santa Claus

    Nicholas was born in Parara, Turkey in 270 CE and later became Bishop of Myra. He died in 345 CE on December 6th. He was only named a saint in the 19th century. Most of Cristmas is celebrated after him for his contribution in marrying Saturnalia with the Catholic ”Christ mass”.

    …What fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?… (2 Corinthians 6:14 KJV)

    “A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit” Matthew 7:18

    And now you know the root of Christmas and whether it should be celebrated by bible believing Christians or not.

    Source: https://thetruthandlight.wordpress.c...-of-christmas/

    Therefore the fact of the matter is that Christmas, Easter and many other pagan Roman festivals have no basis in Biblical scriptures except that they infiltrated Roman Catholicism and into mainstream Christianity that is practised today.

    Many Christians say "It is the symbol of the birth of Christ that they are celebrating", but the fact remains that "Christmas" has nothing to do with Christianity and they are essentialy celebrating a Roman Pagan festival and giving offerings to a Roman Pagan idol.

    In modern times the only ones who benefit from Christmas are the big corporations to the detriment of society many of whom are forced to take out credit and loans to fund the yearly festival.

    Therefore open your heart towards searching for the truth for there is no truth in that which is corrupted with paganism and idolatry:

    Almighty Allah says: Pagans indeed are those who say that GOD is the Messiah, son of Mary. The Messiah himself said, "O Children of Israel, you shall worship GOD; my Lord* and your Lord." Anyone who sets up any idol beside GOD, GOD has forbidden Paradise for him, and his destiny is Hell. The wicked have no helpers. [5:72]
    A rememberance of the Christ of GOD, and the gift of giving for the sake of giving are most definitely the only good things that come from Christmas. It does lend itself to a giving spirit for some though; and surely devout worship and praise to GOD for many more.

    The article does show the error or the ancient rcc.

    Let us hope we can all be moved from past error by the grace will and light of GOD.

    Thorough post.

    peace
    1 | Likes sister herb liked this post

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    Re: Saturnalia: The Real Roots of Christmas

    Assalamu Alaikum

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamza Asadullah View Post
    Saturnalia: The Real Roots of Christmas
    In my art history class we were told that the trinity also had pagan roots. At the time, the people didn't want to leave their paganism so they integrated some elements into their Christian beliefs. You see this in a lot of their art too when they place halos over people they would identify as "saints" or "holy." This is an ancient roman and greek technique that carried over into Christian art.
    1 | Likes Hamza Asadullah liked this post
    Saturnalia: The Real Roots of Christmas

    D e a t h

    is the easiest
    of all things after it
    ; ;

    the hardest
    of all things before it

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    Re: Saturnalia: The Real Roots of Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by popsthebuilder View Post
    A rememberance of the Christ of GOD, and the gift of giving for the sake of giving are most definitely the only good things that come from Christmas. It does lend itself to a giving spirit for some though; and surely devout worship and praise to GOD for many more.

    The article does show the error or the ancient rcc.

    Let us hope we can all be moved from past error by the grace will and light of GOD.

    Thorough post.

    peace
    Greetings,

    The spirit of "giving" would apply to festivals of any religion or culture and you can worship God at anytime particularly on religious occasions that have basis in Biblical scripture. Christmas, Easter etc have absolutely no basis in the scriptures and have proven historical links to Roman Paganistic beliefs.

    The fact of the matter is that the main and most important message of Jesus (As) and all the Prophets and Messengers propogated the same message and that is to worship God alone and ascribe not partners to him but as Christian history proves paganism infiltrated the heart and core of Christianity to what it is today being rampant with idolism and paganistic rituals which not only have no basis in Biblical scripture but is contrary to the message of Jesus and all the Prophets and Messengers which is to establish the oneness of God and not attribute anyone or anything alongside him.

    It is recognised however that during the history of early Christianity a lot of this pagan infiltration was opposed by various sects and there was a lot of bloodshed and sectarian cleansing particularly during the time of Constantine but if Christians today recognise these "errors" as you have stated then surely you should abandon the celebration of such festivals which have no basis in the scriptures because by not doing so you are giving credence to Roman paganistic beliefs and are essentially praying to their Gods. This was what the pagans wanted and unfortunately the vast majority of Christians are oblivious to this and those who are aware like you, are so lenient to these Paganistic beliefs and practices that you are disobeying the biggest and most important command of God which is to worship him alone and not to ascribe partners to him.

    “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. “You shall have no other gods before me. “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments. (Exodus 20: 2-6)
    Last edited by Hamza Asadullah; 12-10-2017 at 10:01 PM.
    Saturnalia: The Real Roots of Christmas

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    Re: Saturnalia: The Real Roots of Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamza Asadullah View Post
    Saturnalia: The Real Roots of Christmas

    Many Christians today believe that Christmas is a Christian holiday. The fact is that people have been celebrating Christmas, long before the birth of Christ. The festivity was known then, as Saturnalia. Saturnalia was a festival in which the Romans commemorated the dedication of the temple of the god Saturn. As winter approached, they were losing harvest & were in need of the sun in order for their harvest to grow & bear fruit. Saturn was the Roman god of agriculture and harvest.

    This meant that the god Saturn was in need of the sun god in order to complete his job, therefore the attention was then shifted to the sun god. The Saturnalia custom is rooted in pagan & Celtic believes & traditions. They believed in human sacrifice including the sacrifice of small children & infants in which were offered to their gods in order to empower the sun to return with strength. They believed that winter was due to the sun losing its power due to a battle between the sun god & the god of the dead. Since winter is annually, they believed these battles were fought annually and thus the sacrifices had to be annually in order to appease or empower their respective gods. Because the sun always return at the beginning of the new year, they believed that its was due to all of their human sacrifices, and costum rituals that took effect; empowering their sun god to return each year victoriously.

    The Roman pagans introduced into their law December 17-25 as Saturnalia. During this period, Roman courts were closed, and Roman law dictated that no one could be punished for damaging property or injuring people during the week long celebration. The festival began when Roman authorities chose “an enemy of the Roman people” to represent the “Lord of Misrule.” Each Roman community selected a victim whom they forced to indulge in food and other physical pleasures throughout the week. At the festival’s conclusion, December 25th, Roman authorities believed they were destroying the forces of darkness by brutally murdering the innocent man or woman who they chose to represent “the forces of darkness”.

    In the 4th century The Roman Catholic Church adopted the Saturnalia festival hoping to take the pagan masses in with it. Chatolic leaders succeeded in converting to “Christianity” large numbers of pagans by promising them that they could continue to celebrate their Saturnalia as “Christmas”.Christians had little success, however, refining the practices of Saturnalia. As Stephen Nissenbaum, professor history at the University of Massachussetts, Amherst, writes, “In return for ensuring massive observance of the anniversary of the Savior’s birth by assigning it to this resonant date, the Church for its part tacitly agreed to allow the holiday to be celebrated more or less the way it had always been.” The earliest Christmas holidays were celebrated by drinking, sexual indulgence, singing naked in the streets (a precursor of modern caroling), etc.

    The problem was that there was nothing in relation to Christianity concerning Saturnalia. To remedy this, these so called Christian leaders named Saturnalia’s concluding day, December 25th to be Jesus’ birthday.

    As part of the Saturnalia carnival throughout the 18th and 19th centuries CE, rabbis of the poor places in Rome were forced to wear clown type of clothing and march through the city streets to the mocking of the crowd, heavely rained by a variety of missiles. When the Jewish community of Rome sent a petition in1836 to Pope Gregory XVI begging him to stop the annual Saturnalia abuse of the Jewish community, he responded, “It is not opportune to make any innovation. On December 25, 1881, Christian leaders whipped the Polish masses into Antisemitic frenzies that led to riots across the country. In Warsaw 12 Jews were brutally murdered, huge numbers were disable or disfigured, and many Jewish women were raped. Two million rubles worth of property was destroyed. Some foundation for a holyday they like to call “Christian”.

    Today, the same formula its being used when it comes to repackaging pagan practices and doctrines by just renaming them and giving them a “Christian” name. For instance, Rock & Roll music; So called Christian leaders believe a worldly or pagan person can join a Christian church with out having to leave their worldly Rock & Roll behind, because they can find Rock & Roll in the church too, “Christian Rock & Roll” that is! This is now offered by so called Christian churches today, supposedly to attract and convert the worldly.

    The list goes on and on, from Rock, to “Christian Rock”, to Yoga, to “Christian Yoga”, to porn, to “Christian porn”; That’s right… They now even have porn with the name “Christian” before it. These are a few of many traps laid to the undiscerning, designed to lead him into the wrong path, the one that does not lead to heaven, but to death & destruction.

    Although this is a different story, the method in which Satan operates, is exactly the same. The Roman Catholic church then, was not concerned with people’s souls, but rather with their contributions to their church. Today, nothing has changed!

    The Origins of Christmas Customs:

    A. Christmas Trees

    Just as early Christians recruited Roman pagans by associating Christmas with the Saturnalia, so too worshippers of the Asheira cult and its offshoots were recruited by the Church sanctioning “Christmas Trees Pagans had long worshipped trees in the forest, or brought them into their homes and decorated them, and this observance was adopted and painted with a Christian veneer by the Catholic Church. Jerimiah 10:3 says: “For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not”

    B. Mistletoe

    Norse mythology recounts how the god Balder was killed using a mistletoe arrow by his rival god Hoder while fighting for the female Nanna. Druid rituals use mistletoe to poison their human sacrificial victim. The Christian custom of “kissing under the mistletoe” is a later synthesis of the sexual license of Saturnalia with the Druidic sacrificial cult.

    C. Christmas Presents

    In pre-Christian Rome, the emperors compelled their most despised citizens to bring offerings and gifts during the Saturnalia (in December) and Kalends (in January). Later, this ritual expanded to include gift-giving among the general populace. The Catholic Church gave this custom a Christian flavor by re-rooting it in the supposed gift-giving of Saint Nicholas

    Santa Claus

    Nicholas was born in Parara, Turkey in 270 CE and later became Bishop of Myra. He died in 345 CE on December 6th. He was only named a saint in the 19th century. Most of Cristmas is celebrated after him for his contribution in marrying Saturnalia with the Catholic ”Christ mass”.

    …What fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?… (2 Corinthians 6:14 KJV)

    “A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit” Matthew 7:18

    And now you know the root of Christmas and whether it should be celebrated by bible believing Christians or not.

    Source: https://thetruthandlight.wordpress.c...-of-christmas/

    Therefore the fact of the matter is that Christmas, Easter and many other pagan Roman festivals have no basis in Biblical scriptures except that they infiltrated Roman Catholicism and into mainstream Christianity that is practised today.

    Many Christians say "It is the symbol of the birth of Christ that they are celebrating", but the fact remains that "Christmas" has nothing to do with Christianity and they are essentialy celebrating a Roman Pagan festival and giving offerings to a Roman Pagan idol.

    In modern times the only ones who benefit from Christmas are the big corporations to the detriment of society many of whom are forced to take out credit and loans to fund the yearly festival.

    Therefore open your heart towards searching for the truth for there is no truth in that which is corrupted with paganism and idolatry:

    Almighty Allah says: Pagans indeed are those who say that GOD is the Messiah, son of Mary. The Messiah himself said, "O Children of Israel, you shall worship GOD; my Lord* and your Lord." Anyone who sets up any idol beside GOD, GOD has forbidden Paradise for him, and his destiny is Hell. The wicked have no helpers. [5:72]
    Yeah some people don't know that many Christmas traditions were taken directly from pagan roots to ease Europe's transition from pagan folk beliefs to Christianity. It's the same with Easter, i.e. the whole Easter bunny and Easter egg business, etc. This is why you'll find Christians and Christian denominations who choose not to observe either holiday. Most people don't seem to mind (or care) though, since we just want to enjoy the festivities and the holiday season, spend time with family/friends, get some gifts, eat good food, and all that jazz.

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    Re: Saturnalia: The Real Roots of Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamza Asadullah View Post
    Greetings,

    The spirit of "giving" would apply to festivals of any religion or culture and you can worship God at anytime particularly on religious occasions that have basis in Biblical scripture. Christmas, Easter etc have absolutely no basis in the scriptures and have proven historical links to Roman Paganistic beliefs.

    The fact of the matter is that the main and most important message of Jesus (As) and all the Prophets and Messengers propogated the same message and that is to worship God alone and ascribe not partners to him but as Christian history proves paganism infiltrated the heart and core of Christianity to what it is today being rampant with idolism and paganistic rituals which not only have no basis in Biblical scripture but is contrary to the message of Jesus and all the Prophets and Messengers which is to establish the oneness of God and not attribute anyone or anything alongside him.

    It is recognised however that during the history of early Christianity a lot of this pagan infiltration was opposed by various sects and there was a lot of bloodshed and sectarian cleansing particularly during the time of Constantine but if Christians today recognise these "errors" as you have stated then surely you should abandon the celebration of such festivals which have no basis in the scriptures because by not doing so you are giving credence to Roman paganistic beliefs and are essentially praying to their Gods. This was what the pagans wanted and unfortunately the vast majority of Christians are oblivious to this and those who are aware like you, are so lenient to these Paganistic beliefs and practices that you are disobeying the biggest and most important command of God which is to worship him alone and not to ascribe partners to him.

    “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. “You shall have no other gods before me. “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments. (Exodus 20: 2-6)
    And you assume I celebrate Christmas because of what?

    I do not contend the points made in the initial post. You cannot rightly deduce that any who celebrate Christmas are worshiping idols. That isn't how it works. Ask them and they will tell you they are celebrating the physical birth of the Christ of GOD. Do you not know that all things work to the glory of our GOD? Ignorance is not knowing sin and not to be regarded as such. If you find one worshiping the sun or moon as if GOD almighty then you would indeed have a case. If you come across some that worship the temporal vessel and temple of GOD (Jesus the Christ of GOD) as if the literal eternal GOD almighty instead of grasping that the Spirit of GOD is to be worshipped, and not the temple in which it resides, then please do correct them, but to blankly claim a whole faith as idol worshippers because of the traditions of man is gross error masked as discernment.

    The truth of the matter is that the faithful of and to GOD reside among all people, more sparse in concentration between some than others surely, but none the less of all nations.

    And Magi did come to the physical manifestation of the Christ bearing gifts at the time of His physical birth, and Christmas is a commemoration of that at very least.


    peace

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    Re: Saturnalia: The Real Roots of Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by popsthebuilder View Post
    And you assume I celebrate Christmas because of what?

    I do not contend the points made in the initial post. You cannot rightly deduce that any who celebrate Christmas are worshiping idols. That isn't how it works. Ask them and they will tell you they are celebrating the physical birth of the Christ of GOD. Do you not know that all things work to the glory of our GOD? Ignorance is not knowing sin and not to be regarded as such. If you find one worshiping the sun or moon as if GOD almighty then you would indeed have a case. If you come across some that worship the temporal vessel and temple of GOD (Jesus the Christ of GOD) as if the literal eternal GOD almighty instead of grasping that the Spirit of GOD is to be worshipped, and not the temple in which it resides, then please do correct them, but to blankly claim a whole faith as idol worshippers because of the traditions of man is gross error masked as discernment.

    The truth of the matter is that the faithful of and to GOD reside among all people, more sparse in concentration between some than others surely, but none the less of all nations.

    And Magi did come to the physical manifestation of the Christ bearing gifts at the time of His physical birth, and Christmas is a commemoration of that at very least.


    peace
    That's like saying you celebrate the birthday of Christ on a day nowhere near his birthday which was purposely attributed to a day which falls on a Roman Pagan festival and with all the symbols of Roman Paganism listed in the article such as Mistletoe, Christmas tree and Santa Claus but hey it's "ok"?

    Your overly lenient approach to idolatry is exactly the reason why Paganistic beliefs and practices are so rampant in your faith. You may think it's "ok" or find some sort of illogical meaningless justification for it but the biblical scriptures are totally against idolatry, Paganistic beliefs and practices and anything which associates partners unto God.
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    Re: Saturnalia: The Real Roots of Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamza Asadullah View Post
    That's like saying you celebrate the birthday of Christ on a day nowhere near his birthday which was purposely attributed to a day which falls on a Roman Pagan festival and with all the symbols of Roman Paganism listed in the article such as Mistletoe, Christmas tree and Santa Claus but hey it's "ok"?

    Your overly lenient approach to idolatry is exactly the reason why Paganistic beliefs and practices are so rampant in your faith. You may think it's "ok" or find some sort of illogical meaningless justification for it but the biblical scriptures are totally against idolatry, Paganistic beliefs and practices and anything which associates partners unto God.
    I already said if you find a professing Christian to be a pagan in actuality then correct them.

    As for me; I ask you again to stop assuming who or what you are speaking to.

    I can go on a rant about how all of a particular faith are hypocrites due to the murderous actions of others regardless of the fact that all the Quran teaches that mercy is best, but that wouldn't be logical or justified, or profitable for any now would it.

    If it is your wish to bolster yourself over others then do you, but I do hope you study the sacred texts of the faithful to GOD first.


    You speak of me personally with nothing but blind assumption. Apparently that is your strong suit. I ask that you throw your pride out along with your preconceived bias if you have any amount of sincerity within you.

    I don't consider myself to be solely of any particular division of faith or sect of the faithful.

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    Re: Saturnalia: The Real Roots of Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by popsthebuilder View Post
    I already said if you find a professing Christian to be a pagan in actuality then correct them.

    As for me; I ask you again to stop assuming who or what you are speaking to.

    I can go on a rant about how all of a particular faith are hypocrites due to the murderous actions of others regardless of the fact that all the Quran teaches that mercy is best, but that wouldn't be logical or justified, or profitable for any now would it.

    If it is your wish to bolster yourself over others then do you, but I do hope you study the sacred texts of the faithful to GOD first.


    You speak of me personally with nothing but blind assumption. Apparently that is your strong suit. I ask that you throw your pride out along with your preconceived bias if you have any amount of sincerity within you.

    I don't consider myself to be solely of any particular division of faith or sect of the faithful.
    My friend this is not just about you. This is also not about pride or ego or getting one over another for a meaningless purpose. This is firstly about concern as we all want to be of those who are saved and one thing that is consistent in all three Abrahamic faiths is establishing the oneness of God and not associating any partners unto him.

    Now in our interactions in this thread, you acknowledged that there certainly is historical fact behind the celebration of Christmas as originally being a Roman Pagan festival which was then attributed to the birth of Jesus as mentioned in the article. However you then went onto justify that those Christians who do celebrate it are only doing so due to the significance of the birth of Christ.

    You see the problem is that Christmas/Saturnalia is a festival that essentially goes against the very fundamentals of Biblical scripture because not only was the birth of Jesus "purposely" attributed to a Roman Pagan festival without proper religious or scriptural authority. But all of the Paganistic symbols of Saturnalia were also attributed to this day to mark the "Birth of Jesus". But this is justified in your mind because the intended purpose is to "mark the birth of Christ".

    That does not make sense and if that is the case then "anything goes". Using your approach we can adopt any pagan festival and attribute our own religious significance unto it. We can also use their Paganistic symbols to mark those festivals unto our own without a care. Do you see why such an approach is fundamentally wrong and highly blasphemous? Do you not see why such an approach opens the doors to further corruption and to the evil whims and desires of man to out their own take on scripture and what constitutes religious beliefs and practices?

    Hence why in Islam we can "only" base our religious practices and beliefs on scriptural evidence and this is in order to keep out abominations and innovations particularly those that are contrary to the fundamentals of our faith.

    So open your heart to the truth my friend. You will never find truth in that which is corrupted, changed, added to and taken away from and certainly not in that which there is no "original" to refer back to.

    Peace and May Allah guide all to the truth. Ameen
    Last edited by Hamza Asadullah; 12-11-2017 at 12:01 AM.
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    Re: Saturnalia: The Real Roots of Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamza Asadullah View Post
    My friend this is not just about you. This is also not about pride or ego or getting one over another for a meaningless purpose. This is Firstly about concern as we all want to be of those who are saved and one thing that is consistent in all three Abrahamic faiths is to establish the oneness of God and not associate any partners unto him.

    Now in our interactions in this thread, you acknowledged that there certainly is historical fact behind the celebration of Christmas as originally a Roman Pagan festival. However you then went onto justify that those Christians who do celebrate it are only doing so due to the significance of the birth of Christ.

    This is where the problem lies. On one hand Christmas/Saturnalia is a festival that essentially goes against the very fundamentals of your faith because of the fact that the birth of Jesus was "purposely" attributed to that particular day but on the other hand it is still justified in your mind because regardless of the day and the fact that all of the symbols of paganism being attributed to that day to mark Saturnalia can still be used to mark the Birth of Jesus. That just does not make sense and if that is the case then "anything goes". Hence the importance of preserving scripture and purely scriptural based practices to keep out all abominations and innovations particularly those that are contrary to the fundamentals of our faith.

    So open your heart to the truth my friend. You will never find truth in that which is corrupted, changed, added to and taken away from and certainly not in that which there is no "original" to refer back to. Peace and May Allah guide all to the truth. Ameen
    All I am trying to convey is that one celebrating what they consider to be a celebration of the birth of Jesus can not and should not, as a nessesity, be considered an idol worshipper or one who associates partners or equals to GOD.

    I am certain you see and understand my point based on your last post.

    Indeed; may GOD guide us all.

    peace friend
    Last edited by popsthebuilder; 12-11-2017 at 12:26 AM.
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    Re: Saturnalia: The Real Roots of Christmas

    Why do you bother with other people's beliefs? Who cares what other people believe and where their beliefs came from? If you want to be respected, start by respecting others. Common courtesy.

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    Re: Saturnalia: The Real Roots of Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by fromelsewhere View Post
    Why do you bother with other people's beliefs? Who cares what other people believe and where their beliefs came from? If you want to be respected, start by respecting others. Common courtesy.
    As Muslims we are ordered by God to care for fate of the whole of humanity. We are not individualistic like modern day society wants us to be nor are we selfish in that we just want salvation just for ourselves. Nor is Islam a passive faith.

    Disagreeing and providing refutation with regards to some aspect of another person's belief does not make one disrespectful as long as one does not use profanity or ridicule their belief.

    This is a forum and a platform where people of all faiths can come and have a respectful discussion about various aspects of religion. Surely you are also here because you are curious and want to know more.

    If so then please feel free to ask questions and we will do our best to help you
    Last edited by Hamza Asadullah; 12-11-2017 at 03:18 AM.
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    Re: Saturnalia: The Real Roots of Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamza Asadullah View Post
    As Muslims we care for the whole of humanity. We are not individualistic like modern day society wants us to be nor selfish in that we want salvation just for ourselves.

    Disagreeing with some aspect of another person's belief does not make one disrespectful as long as one does not use profanity or ridicule their belief. This is a forum and a platform where people of all faiths can come and have discussion about various aspects of religion. Surely you are also here because you are curious. If so then please feel free to ask questions and we will do our best to help you.
    That's not quite true, I must say. Other people's beliefs are constantly attacked here, but if you just dare criticize a very conservative stance (i.e. salafist) on Islam, you get attacked from all sides.

    Also, if you really did care for "the whole of humanity," you would talk about why Islam is so great rather than why others' religions suck. But of course, it's always much easier to make fun of others' beliefs.
    Last edited by fromelsewhere; 12-11-2017 at 03:20 AM.
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    Re: Saturnalia: The Real Roots of Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by fromelsewhere View Post
    That's not quite true, I must say. Other people's beliefs are constantly attacked here, but if you just dare criticize a very conservative stance (i.e. salafist) on Islam, you get attacked from all sides.
    That depends on what constitutes as an "attack". Ridiculing and using profanity is never acceptable. If so then normally such behaviour is reported and we would like all members to continue to report such behaviour.

    Such behaviour is also contrary to the characteristics of how a Muslim must behave and if one was to look at the life and character of the Prophet (Sallallahu laihi Wasallam) then he was the most respectful to all.

    It is not just about having a "conservative" stance. We are only human and as humans we can allow our pride, ego and anger to get the better of us at times and that applies to people in general.
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    Re: Saturnalia: The Real Roots of Christmas

    To the author of the original post;

    Thank you sir, here, openly; for the truth you did lead me to find about the subject at hand. Know that your work nor words are in vain.

    May GOD bless you by HIS will and through your submission and reflection there of.

    peace friend
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