yes, and they came before prophet Muhammad s.a.w No, they can't be, because they were born after the last messenger i.e. Hz Muhammad s.aw.
But since prophet Muhammad only spoke Arabic, he could be the final prophet for the Arabs. How can he be a prophet/last prophet for the non Arabs? Quran clearly said your prophet speaks your language. In that case Guru Nanak, Bahaullah etc are still valid for their respective community right? Not only that, following verses shows that prophet Muhammad was sent for the Arabs in Mecca.
And this is a Book We have sent down, blessed (and) sincerely (verifying) that which was before (Literally: between its two hands) it, and for you to warn the Mother of the Towns (Makkah) and whomever are around it; and the ones who believe in the Hereafter believe in it, and they (constantly) preserve their prayer. (Quran 6 92)
''This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed my favor upon you and have chosen for you Islam as your religion.''
(The Holy Quran, Al-Maidah 5:3)
''the Qur'an was sent down as a guidance to the people with Clear Signs of the true guidance and as the Criterion (between right and wrong)'' (2:185)
“This is a declaration for humankind, a guidance and admonition to those who ward off (evil)”. (3:138)
“A Book We have sent down to you so that you may bring forth mankind from the darkness into the light......”. (14:1)
People speak thousands of languages and guidance for mankind is in Quran, but Quran is in Arabic, so real language of mankind is Arabic, whether or not people know it. So if you want guidance to right path, you have to learn Arabic or should to see translation of Quran.
Now no prophet will come.
Prophet s.a.w said:
''The chain of Messengers and Prophets has come to an end. There shall be no Messenger nor Prophet after me.''
(Tirmidhi, Musnad Ahmad, Anas bin Malik)
Prophet s.a.w said:
''My position in relation to the prophets who came before me can be explained by the following example: A man erected a building and adorned this edifice with great beauty, but he left an empty niche, in the corner where just one brick was missing. People looked around the building and marveled at its beauty, but wondered why a brick was missing from that niche? I am like unto that one missing brick and I am the last in the line of the Prophets.''
''This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed my favor upon you and have chosen for you Islam as your religion.''
(The Holy Quran, Al-Maidah 5:3)
''the Qur'an was sent down as a guidance to the people with Clear Signs of the true guidance and as the Criterion (between right and wrong)'' (2:185)
“This is a declaration for humankind, a guidance and admonition to those who ward off (evil)”. (3:138)
“A Book We have sent down to you so that you may bring forth mankind from the darkness into the light......”. (14:1)
People speak thousands of languages and guidance for mankind is in Quran, but Quran is in Arabic, so real language of mankind is Arabic, whether or not people know it. So if you want guidance to right path, you have to learn Arabic or should to see translation of Quran.
Now no prophet will come.
Dear Azc,
You are implying that God sent about 124,000 prophets for maybe about 4000 years in all kind of languages for all kind of people then about 1500 years ago he stopped sending message after the supposedly last one in Arabic. So the entire world have to pick up Arabic!
1. Verses you quoted above 3:138 & 14:1. How do you reconcile with it verse 6 92 where it says Allah actually sent down the Quran to warn Mecca and its neighborhood only?
2. Even the Arabs who received the Quran in their own mother tongue could not understand the message in Arabic if its not in their dialect, then how can e.g a Japanese understand it before he can translate it?
Ubayy b. Ka'b reported that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) was near the tank of Banu Ghifar that Gabriel came to him and said:
Allah has commanded you to recite to your people the Qur'an in one dialect. Upon this he said: I ask from Allah pardon and forgiveness. My people are not capable of doing it. He then came for the second time and said: Allah has commanded you that you should recite the Qur'an to your people in two dialects. Upon this he (the Holy prophet) again said: I seek pardon and forgiveness from Allah, my people would not be able to do so. He (Gabriel) came for the third time and said: Allah has commanded you to recite the Qur'an to your people in three dialects. Upon this he said: I ask pardon and forgiveness from Allah. My people would not be able to do it. He then came to him for the fourth time and said: Allah has commanded you to recite the Qur'an to your people in seven dialects, and in whichever dialect they would recite, they would be right.
Reference : Sahih Muslim 821 a The Book of Prayer - Travellers » Hadith
You are implying that God sent about 124,000 prophets for maybe about 4000 years in all kind of languages for all kind of people then about 1500 years ago he stopped sending message after the supposedly last one in Arabic. So the entire world have to pick up Arabic!
1. Verses you quoted above 3:138 & 14:1. How do you reconcile with it verse 6 92 where it says Allah actually sent down the Quran to warn Mecca and its neighborhood only?
2. Even the Arabs who received the Quran in their own mother tongue could not understand the message in Arabic if its not in their dialect, then how can e.g a Japanese understand it before he can translate it?
Ubayy b. Ka'b reported that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) was near the tank of Banu Ghifar that Gabriel came to him and said:
Allah has commanded you to recite to your people the Qur'an in one dialect. Upon this he said: I ask from Allah pardon and forgiveness. My people are not capable of doing it. He then came for the second time and said: Allah has commanded you that you should recite the Qur'an to your people in two dialects. Upon this he (the Holy prophet) again said: I seek pardon and forgiveness from Allah, my people would not be able to do so. He (Gabriel) came for the third time and said: Allah has commanded you to recite the Qur'an to your people in three dialects. Upon this he said: I ask pardon and forgiveness from Allah. My people would not be able to do it. He then came to him for the fourth time and said: Allah has commanded you to recite the Qur'an to your people in seven dialects, and in whichever dialect they would recite, they would be right.
Reference : Sahih Muslim 821 a The Book of Prayer - Travellers » Hadith
The last one had to come from somewhere, and had to speak somebody's language.
You don't have to learn Arabic, there are translations for a reason.
1. You don't have a knowledgeable background on Islam and as a result are just embarrassing yourself by making such stupid claims by cherry picking verses. Not a single Muslim in history has come up with that narrative despite studying Islam far longer than you have, so that you should tell you how invalid your argument is.
2. That's why the Quran was revealed with multiple Qira'at which are still around today. Also, again, there are translations. If I as a non-Arab can understand Islam, so can you. There is no excuse.
You are implying that God sent about 124,000 prophets for maybe about 4000 years in all kind of languages for all kind of people then about 1500 years ago he stopped sending message after the supposedly last one in Arabic. So the entire world have to pick up Arabic!
1. Verses you quoted above 3:138 & 14:1. How do you reconcile with it verse 6 92 where it says Allah actually sent down the Quran to warn Mecca and its neighborhood only?
2. Even the Arabs who received the Quran in their own mother tongue could not understand the message in Arabic if its not in their dialect, then how can e.g a Japanese understand it before he can translate it?
Ubayy b. Ka'b reported that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) was near the tank of Banu Ghifar that Gabriel came to him and said:
Allah has commanded you to recite to your people the Qur'an in one dialect. Upon this he said: I ask from Allah pardon and forgiveness. My people are not capable of doing it. He then came for the second time and said: Allah has commanded you that you should recite the Qur'an to your people in two dialects. Upon this he (the Holy prophet) again said: I seek pardon and forgiveness from Allah, my people would not be able to do so. He (Gabriel) came for the third time and said: Allah has commanded you to recite the Qur'an to your people in three dialects. Upon this he said: I ask pardon and forgiveness from Allah. My people would not be able to do it. He then came to him for the fourth time and said: Allah has commanded you to recite the Qur'an to your people in seven dialects, and in whichever dialect they would recite, they would be right.
Reference : Sahih Muslim 821 a The Book of Prayer - Travellers » Hadith
6:92:
Because when he was commanded
''Arise, and give warning'' (74:2)
He warned his own clan, tribe and other people of makka first.
And
3:138 & 14:1, these verses were revealed after a long time
Arab people even today speak in different dialects but they understand Quran,
e.g. Levantine, Egyptian, Gulf, Hassaniya, Maghrebi, Mesopotamian/Iraqi, Sudanese, Yemeni etc
Guru Nanak went to haj in blue costumes or Ihraam is what the sikhs say. After my own studies once a long ago on them, as Sikhs call Allah as Rahim etc my conclusion was that Guru Nanak was a Muslim with some secular ideas and those followers went to extremes leading to shirk though they say they call One God but they have given a few attributes of the Lord to their Guru pushing them into Shirk and not accepting Prophet Muhammad :Saws: as Last Prophet is kufar Akbar too.
Just a Muslim with Glorious Quran and (hadith) sunnah as my guide as in verse 41:33 '' And who is better in speech than one who invites to Allah and does righteousness and says, "Indeed, I am of the Muslims."
But since prophet Muhammad only spoke Arabic, he could be the final prophet for the Arabs. How can he be a prophet/last prophet for the non Arabs? Quran clearly said your prophet speaks your language. In that case Guru Nanak, Bahaullah etc are still valid for their respective community right? Not only that, following verses shows that prophet Muhammad was sent for the Arabs in Mecca.
And this is a Book We have sent down, blessed (and) sincerely (verifying) that which was before (Literally: between its two hands) it, and for you to warn the Mother of the Towns (Makkah) and whomever are around it; and the ones who believe in the Hereafter believe in it, and they (constantly) preserve their prayer. (Quran 6 92)
The learned scholars of Bani Isra-eel knew that The Prophet that was eagerly awaited to free them from bondage to the curses of the law would come to Arabia and the covenant to support him was made at Sinai - this is how Salmaan Al Faarisi arrived in Arabia from Persia via Ash-Shaam.
The letters of Paul also allude to it (although it has been polluted with statements of false pride - search " kjv two covenants agar sinai arabia " (agar is hajar the mother of Isma'eel - the father of the Arabs) and refer to Allah's reminder to them in surah Al Baqarah Ch.2 and also to their covenant in Deuteronomy to assist the idol smashing Prophet)
192. Verily this is a Revelation from the Lord of the Worlds:
193. With it came down the spirit of Faith and Truth-
194. To thy heart and mind, that thou mayest admonish.
195. In the perspicuous Arabic tongue. 196. Without doubt it is (announced) in the Books of former peoples.
197. Is it not a Sign to them that the Learned of the Children of Israel knew it (as true)?
198. Had We revealed it to any of the non-Arabs,
199. And had he recited it to them, they would not have believed in it.
200. Thus have We caused it to enter the hearts of the sinners.
201. They will not believe in it until they see the grievous Penalty;
202. But the (Penalty) will come to them of a sudden, while they perceive it not;
203. Then they will say: “Shall we be respited?”
204. Do they then ask for Our Penalty to be hastened on?
205. Seest thou? If We do let them enjoy (this life) for a few years,
206. Yet there comes to them at length the (Punishment) which they were promised!
207. It will profit them not that they enjoyed (this life)!
208. Never did We destroy a population, but had its warners –
209. By way of reminder; and We never are unjust.
210. No evil ones have brought down this (Revelation):
211. It would neither suit them nor would they be able (to produce it).
212. Indeed they have been removed far from even (a chance of) hearing it.
213. So call not on any other god with Allah, or thou wilt be among those under the Penalty.
214. And admonish thy nearest kinsmen,
215. And lower thy wing to the Believers who follow thee.
216. Then if they disobey thee, say: “I am free (of responsibility) for what ye do!”
217. And put thy trust on the Exalted in Might, the Merciful,-
218. Who seeth thee standing forth (in prayer),
219. And thy movements among those who prostrate themselves,
220. For it is He Who heareth and knoweth all things.
221. Shall I inform you, (O people!), on whom it is that the evil ones descend?
222. They descend on every lying, wicked person,
223. (Into whose ears) they pour hearsay vanities, and most of them are liars.
224. And the Poets,- It is those straying in Evil, who follow them:
225. Seest thou not that they wander distracted in every valley?-
226. And that they say what they practise not?-
227. Except those who believe, work righteousness, engage much in the remembrance of Allah, and defend themselves after they are unjustly attacked. And soon will the unjust assailants know what vicissitudes their affairs will take!
From Quran Chapter 26
---
The Messenger would be Arab - and i can think of no logical reason to send the message in a different tongue - especially since Arabic is such an eloquent yet condensed language.
---
43. Nothing is said to thee that was not said to the apostles before thee: that thy lord has at his Command (all) forgiveness as well as a most Grievous Penalty. 44. Had We sent this as a Qur’an (in the language) other than Arabic, they would have said: “Why are not its verses explained in detail? What! (a Book) not in Arabic and (a Messenger an Arab?” Say: “It is a Guide and a Healing to those who believe; and for those who believe not, there is a deafness in their ears, and it is blindness in their (eyes): They are (as it were) being called from a place far distant!”
From Quran Chapter 41
154. When the anger of Moses was appeased, he took up the tablets: in the writing thereon was guidance and Mercy for such as fear their Lord.
155. And Moses chose seventy of his people for Our place of meeting: when they were seized with violent quaking, he prayed: “O my Lord! if it had been Thy will Thou couldst have destroyed, long before, both them and me: wouldst Thou destroy us for the deeds of the foolish ones among us? this is no more than Thy trial: by it Thou causest whom Thou wilt to stray, and Thou leadest whom Thou wilt into the right path. Thou art our Protector: so forgive us and give us Thy mercy; for Thou art the best of those who forgive.
156. “And ordain for us that which is good, in this life and in the Hereafter: for we have turned unto Thee.” He said: “With My punishment I visit whom I will; but My mercy extendeth to all things. That (mercy) I shall ordain for those who do right, and practise regular charity, and those who believe in Our signs;- 157. “Those who follow the Messenger - The Unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures),- in the law and the Gospel;- for he commands them what is just and forbids them what is evil; he allows them as lawful what is good (and pure) and prohibits them from what is bad (and impure); He releases them from their heavy burdens and from the yokes that are upon them. So it is those who believe in him, honour him, help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him,- it is they who will prosper.”
158. day: “O humankind! I am sent unto you ALL as the Messenger of Allah, to Whom belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth: there is no god but He: it is He That giveth both life and death. So believe in Allah and His Messenger, the Unlettered Prophet, who believeth in Allah and His words: follow him that (so) ye may be guided.”
From Quran Chapter 7
Although Pauls open reference to the "promise" / covenant is found in his letter to the Galatians (he used to raid the houses of believers and confiscate material before he accepted and submitted - then encoded a bunch of gems into stuff that appears as nonsense to the careless) - i couldn't find it in the O.T - Although Allah mentions it in the Quran - indicating that it was removed from the O.T later than Paul (but i've already seen how slyly this is done via my readings of recent Bengali versions of the bible via comparison to English versions).
22For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. 23But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. 24Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. 25For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. 26But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. 27For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband. 28Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
From Galatians 4
The final reference he made to the young woman sent to the desolate wilderness is to be found in Isaiah 54. It also mentions that He - the God of Israel - is called "the God of All the earth" - even though the Law of Moses was to the chosen tribe, the Children of Israel - and so was Messiah 1.0 (primarily) - all announcing God's future mercy to the whole world.
Zechariah 14.9 confirms that it is a future Promise.
Also the questions to the Baptist in the opening chapter of the gospel according to John and also John 6:14 make it clear that That Prophet that should come into the world was yet awaited and that he was not the Messiah (John 7:40-41) - therefore AFTER Messiah 1.0
40. O Children of Israel! call to mind the (special) favour which I bestowed upon you, and fulfil your covenant with Me as I fulfil My Covenant with you, and fear none but Me.
41. And believe in what I reveal, confirming the revelation which is with you, and be not the first to reject Faith therein, nor sell My Signs for a small price; and fear Me, and Me alone.
42. And cover not Truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth when ye know (what it is).
43. And be steadfast in prayer; practise regular charity; and bow down your heads with those who bow down (in worship).
44. Do ye enjoin right conduct on the people, and forget (To practise it) yourselves, and yet ye study the Scripture? Will ye not understand?
45. Nay, seek ((Allah)’s) help with patient perseverance and prayer: It is indeed hard, except to those who bring a lowly spirit,-
46. Who bear in mind the certainty that they are to meet their Lord, and that they are to return to Him. 47. O Children of Israel! call to mind the (special) favour which I bestowed upon you, and that I preferred you to all other (for My Message).
48. Then guard yourselves against a day when one soul shall not avail another nor shall intercession be accepted for her, nor shall compensation be taken from her, nor shall anyone be helped.
Doesn't the Quran says God will only send messengers to a people except in their language?
And We sent not a Messenger except with the language of his people, in order that he might make (the Message) clear for them. Then Allah misleads whom He wills and guides whom He wills. And He is the All-Mighty, the All-Wise. (Quran 14 4)
Why can't then eg. Guru Nanak be the messenger for the Indians/Punjabis or Bahaullah for the Persians/Afghans etc?
They are not Arabs& Arabic is not their language.
Who is to say that those people have not already a prophet sent to them ?
Sikhism is a new religion, borrowed concepts from budhism, hindusim and islam. Hinduism is the actual oldest religion of the subcontinent. And their vedas and other holly books say the same thing that there is only One being and there are none like Him. Who is to say these weren't their real scriptures before all the mythology and smurfs were added in there?
Whatever the history might be, the fact and reality is Islam is the final religion, Quran the final scriptures and Mohammad s.a.w. the final prophet/messenger. To believe anything else is kufr.
Allaah says (interpretation of the meanings):
“This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islâm as your religion” [al-Maa’idah 5:3]
“And whoever seeks a religion other than Islâm, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers” [Aal ‘Imraan 3:85].
Quran clearly says that project Muhammad is the last messenger for the whole of humanity , then how come any religion after Islam eg.SIKHISM can come.
Religion meant Major Religion with the Apostle with Miracles , Prophesies (as laid down even By Books of Major religions like John 16:13-15 and OT (Deuteronomy) who is a Prophet ? ) and holy books. While Sikhism before 300 years is Group of followers or a COMMUNITY neither had Miracles or Prophesiesnor their holy book is Book of God since it does not claim so nor narrate any histories of Creations of Adam etc or about God or the past but contain teachings and opinions of their Guru and biography. imo this is a break away Religion from Islam like bahaism , ahmadhiyas etc as they call Allah as Rahim etc the attributes of Allah but are more deluded than the two. They raise their Guru with attributes of Allah so that is shirk and kufr the similarities found in them is because their Guru was a Muslim ( Guru Nanak could have been like A Peer etc but with misguided followers ) Not to forget about 30 liars of false Prophet claims in hadith too
format_quote Originally Posted by talibilm
Guru Nanak went to haj in blue costumes or Ihraam is what the sikhs say. After my own studies once a long ago on them, as Sikhs call Allah as Rahim etc my conclusion was that Guru Nanak was a Muslim with some secular ideas and those followers went to extremes leading to shirk though they say they call One God but they have given a few attributes of the Lord to their Guru pushing them into Shirk and not accepting Prophet Muhammad :Saws: as Last Prophet is kufar Akbar too.
So better Listen from a Knowledgeable Sikh here in this thread which proves my claims above
Just a Muslim with Glorious Quran and (hadith) sunnah as my guide as in verse 41:33 '' And who is better in speech than one who invites to Allah and does righteousness and says, "Indeed, I am of the Muslims."
The last one had to come from somewhere, and had to speak somebody's language.
You don't have to learn Arabic, there are translations for a reason.
1. You don't have a knowledgeable background on Islam and as a result are just embarrassing yourself by making such stupid claims by cherry picking verses. Not a single Muslim in history has come up with that narrative despite studying Islam far longer than you have, so that you should tell you how invalid your argument is.
2. That's why the Quran was revealed with multiple Qira'at which are still around today. Also, again, there are translations. If I as a non-Arab can understand Islam, so can you. There is no excuse.
Nothing to be embarrassed about learning curve or bringing forth a narrative with actual references of the Quran & authentic Sunnah I think.
Thanks
format_quote Originally Posted by azc
6:92:
Because when he was commanded
''Arise, and give warning'' (74:2)
He warned his own clan, tribe and other people of makka first.
And
3:138 & 14:1, these verses were revealed after a long time
Ok, valid point. Thanks
You quoted this verse to me in your earlier post:
''This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed my favor upon you and have chosen for you Islam as your religion.''
(The Holy Quran, Al-Maidah 5:3)
Can you please explain how come Islam has been perfected for the prophet and Allah hs completed his favor on him on that day?
Al-Maidah is just the chapter 112 by order of revelation of total 114 with hundreds of verses yet to be revealed? Thanks
You are implying that God sent about 124,000 prophets for maybe about 4000 years in all kind of languages for all kind of people then about 1500 years ago he stopped sending message after the supposedly last one in Arabic. So the entire world have to pick up Arabic!
We do not know the exact amount of Prophets but it may be a few hundred, a few thousand or even in hundreds thousands. We only know that the there have been sent much more prophets than the ones mentioned in the Quran.
Where does that 4000 years come from? We know that Isa as lived about 2000 years ago, and that some of the prophets (like Adam as and Noah as I believe) lived 1000 years. so, this 4000 years cannot be correct
format_quote Originally Posted by yandex
1. Verses you quoted above 3:138 & 14:1. How do you reconcile with it verse 6 92 where it says Allah actually sent down the Quran to warn Mecca and its neighborhood only?
2. Even the Arabs who received the Quran in their own mother tongue could not understand the message in Arabic if its not in their dialect, then how can e.g a Japanese understand it before he can translate it?
The human kind developed thoughout the centuries. If the Quran was sent down to all mankind 4000 years ago, how do you think people on the other side of the world would take notice of this?
people did not have the ability to spread the word around the globe back then...language was a big issue...narrations and verses were passed on to each other verbally. So instead, prophets have been send to reach even the most remote locations on Earth. The basic message of all the prophets were the same...but some details may have been different, say customized for a certain region or for certain group of people.
Nowadays we all have internet. you could just open up a web browser and download and read the Quran...you could find translations of it in every language. so, it is not a barrier anymore. you could just get in a plane and in less than a day you would be on the other side of the world...it is accessible to anyone. the Quran is well preserved, no chance for altering it anymore...so the need for another prophet is not there.
format_quote Originally Posted by yandex
Ubayy b. Ka'b reported that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) was near the tank of Banu Ghifar that Gabriel came to him and said:
Allah has commanded you to recite to your people the Qur'an in one dialect. Upon this he said: I ask from Allah pardon and forgiveness. My people are not capable of doing it. He then came for the second time and said: Allah has commanded you that you should recite the Qur'an to your people in two dialects. Upon this he (the Holy prophet) again said: I seek pardon and forgiveness from Allah, my people would not be able to do so. He (Gabriel) came for the third time and said: Allah has commanded you to recite the Qur'an to your people in three dialects. Upon this he said: I ask pardon and forgiveness from Allah. My people would not be able to do it. He then came to him for the fourth time and said: Allah has commanded you to recite the Qur'an to your people in seven dialects, and in whichever dialect they would recite, they would be right.
Reference : Sahih Muslim 821 a The Book of Prayer - Travellers » Hadith
1.To be fair and honest to all, after checking (correct me if I'm wrong), nowhere in the Quran its says Muhammad is the last of the messengers (Rasool). It only says he is the seal/last of the prophets (Nabi).
Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets: and Allah has full knowledge of all things.
(Quran 33: 40)
So let me rephrase, why can't it be that there are some other later messengers even if they are not prophets?
2. On the argument of the whether prophet Muhammad is for the Arabs or the whole mankind, some members were kind enough to show me verses 3:138, 14:1 & 41 :158 which proclaims prophet Muhammad is for all. In this context, just randomly I found some verses to be sort of Arab centric & doesn't seemed to be addressed to all mankind.
It has been made permissible for you the night preceding fasting to go to your wives [for sexual relations]. They are clothing for you and you are clothing for them. Allah knows that you used to deceive yourselves, so He accepted your repentance and forgave you. So now, have relations with them and seek that which Allah has decreed for you. And eat and drink until the white thread of dawn becomes distinct to you from the black thread [of night]. Then complete the fast until the sunset. And do not have relations with them as long as you are staying for worship in the mosques. These are the limits [set by] Allah, so do not approach them. Thus does Allah make clear His ordinances to the people that they may become righteous. (Quran 2 187)
The above verse on fasting, surely Allah is All knowing that the instruction above cannot be followed by people living in eg. Northern Russia/ South Chile etc as there are no sunrise/sunset for months.
There are they watered with a cup whereof the mixture is of Zanjabil (ginger) (Quran 76: 17)
The above verse describes ginger as a reward in paradise! I mean it may be a exotic spice and a big deal for the desert Bedouins of 7th century but for the people of China & Far East its a common kitchen item.
Perhaps some members can share you thoughts. Thanks
1.To be fair and honest to all, after checking (correct me if I'm wrong), nowhere in the Quran its says Muhammad is the last of the messengers (Rasool). It only says he is the seal/last of the prophets (Nabi).
Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets: and Allah has full knowledge of all things.
(Quran 33: 40)
So let me rephrase, why can't it be that there are some other later messengers even if they are not prophets?
I do not know where you got this translation from. I checked several sites with this verse. I understand 4 different languages, and if I look at different translations of this verse, then all of them speak about the last prophet:
https://quran.com/33/40
Muhammad is not the father of [any] one of your men, but [he is] the Messenger of Allah and last of the prophets. And ever is Allah, of all things, Knowing.
http://tanzil.net/#trans/en.sahih/33:40
Muhammad is not the father of [any] one of your men, but [he is] the Messenger of Allah and last of the prophets. And ever is Allah, of all things, Knowing.
In Dutch: http://www.recitequran.com/nl/33:40
Moehammad is niet de vader van één van jullie mannen, maar hij is de Boodschapper van Allah en de laatste van de Profeten. En Allah is Alwetend over alle zaken.
In German: http://islam.de/1382.php
Muhammad ist nicht der Vater eines eurer Männer, sondern der Gesandte Allahs und der letzte aller Propheten, und Allah besitzt die volle Kenntnis aller Dinge.
In Turkish:
Muhammed, sizin erkeklerinizden hiçbirinin babası değildir. Fakat o, Allah’ın Resûlü ve nebîlerin sonuncusudur. Allah, her şeyi hakkıyla bilendir.
I only found 2 sites in English where the word "seal" is being used.
So it is a matter of translation.
then, here is a quote from Islamqa https://islamqa.info/en/113393
Please clarify the evidences that Muhammad (peace be upon him) is the last messenger and prophet. As all evidences are clear that he is the last prophet only and does not indicate that he is the last messenger.
Published Date: 2008-03-12
Praise be to Allaah. The scholars (may Allaah have mercy on them) differed concerning the difference between a Prophet and a Messenger. The majority of scholars are of the view that a Prophet is one who received Revelation from Allaah but was not commanded to convey it, whereas a Messenger is one who received Revelation and was commanded to convey it.
But despite this difference of opinion, they are unanimously agreed that a Messenger is superior to a Prophet, and that a Messenger attained the honour of Prophethood and more. Hence they said: Every Messenger is a Prophet, but not every Prophet is a Messenger.
Thus it is clear that everything which says that the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is the Seal of the Prophets and that there is no Prophet after him indicates that there is no Messenger after him either, because there cannot be any Messenger who is not also a Prophet.
If the text said that the Messenger Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is the Seal of the Messengers, that would not suggest that there would be no Prophet after him, because it would be possible for there to be a Prophet who was not a Messenger.
But, the text states that the Messenger Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is the Seal of the Prophets and that there will be no Prophet after him and this means that there can be no Prophet after him and no Messenger after him.
Ibn Katheer (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: “but he is the Messenger of Allaah and the last (end) of the Prophets” [al-Ahzaab 33:40]. This verse states that there will be no Prophet after him, and if there will be no Prophet after him, then there can be no Messenger after him either, because the status of Messenger is higher than the status of Prophet; a Messenger is also a Prophet but the converse is not necessarily the case. Tafseer Ibn Katheer (3/645).
Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: If he was the Seal of the Prophets then he was also the Seal of the Messengers for sure, because there is no Messenger who is not also a Prophet. Hence it is said: Every Messenger is a Prophet but not every Prophet is a Messenger. End quote. Majmoo’ Fataawa Ibn ‘Uthaymeen (1/250).
And Allaah knows best.
format_quote Originally Posted by yandex
2. On the argument of the whether prophet Muhammad is for the Arabs or the whole mankind, some members were kind enough to show me verses 3:138, 14:1 & 41 :158 which proclaims prophet Muhammad is for all. In this context, just randomly I found some verses to be sort of Arab centric & doesn't seemed to be addressed to all mankind.
It has been made permissible for you the night preceding fasting to go to your wives [for sexual relations]. They are clothing for you and you are clothing for them. Allah knows that you used to deceive yourselves, so He accepted your repentance and forgave you. So now, have relations with them and seek that which Allah has decreed for you. And eat and drink until the white thread of dawn becomes distinct to you from the black thread [of night]. Then complete the fast until the sunset. And do not have relations with them as long as you are staying for worship in the mosques. These are the limits [set by] Allah, so do not approach them. Thus does Allah make clear His ordinances to the people that they may become righteous. (Quran 2 187)
The above verse on fasting, surely Allah is All knowing that the instruction above cannot be followed by people living in eg. Northern Russia/ South Chile etc as there are no sunrise/sunset for months.
I have to do a little research to give you an answer on this. But, it is clear that people in countries where the sun does not set and rise every 24 hours have to use the times of the nearest region where the sun does rise and set.
but lets talk about people who are not on earth at all...
Do you now claim that Allah, as he could foresee that the mankind would be able to leave the Earth and walk on the moon one day, should have provided verses in the Quraan how people must pray in space?
Does that mean Islam is not for astronauts?
Or does that mean Muslims can not travel to the poles, nor go outer space?
format_quote Originally Posted by yandex
There are they watered with a cup whereof the mixture is of Zanjabil (ginger) (Quran 76: 17)
The above verse describes ginger as a reward in paradise! I mean it may be a exotic spice and a big deal for the desert Bedouins of 7th century but for the people of China & Far East its a common kitchen item.
Perhaps some members can share you thoughts. Thanks
So, what does that mean?
In paradise we also are allowed wine.
In my younger years I frequently consumed alcohol...but I never liked wine. the smell alone was disgusting. But appearantly, it will taste delicious in paradise.
1.To be fair and honest to all, after checking (correct me if I'm wrong), nowhere in the Quran its says Muhammad is the last of the messengers (Rasool). It only says he is the seal/last of the prophets (Nabi).
Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets: and Allah has full knowledge of all things.
(Quran 33: 40)
So let me rephrase, why can't it be that there are some other later messengers even if they are not prophets?
Perhaps some members can share you thoughts. Thanks
Scholars have already pondered on the word 'Seal ' in the Glorious Quran which is also seen in verses that says that disbelievers hearts are sealed so they do not understand anything etc shows perfectly 'Seal' means 'closed for good' AND ALSO as certain words in certain languages do have additional meanings.
here are those other verses
2:7. ;;Allâh has set a seal on their hearts and on their hearings, (i.e. they are closed from accepting Allâh's Guidance), and on their eyes there is a covering. Theirs will be a great torment.''
36:65. This Day, We shall seal up their mouths, and their hands will speak to Us, and their legs will bear witness to what they used to earn. (It is said that one's left thigh will be the first to bear the witness).
83:25. They will be given to drink pure sealed wine
is there any hadith stronger than last Sermon of Prophet which was witnessed by 10,000 s which alsoReiterated by the spirit of truth (as called by Isa AS ) , Al Ameen , Assaadique, Prophet Muhammad ?? just 3-4 months before his blessed demise !!
''After praising and thanking Allah the Prophet (saws) said: “O People, lend me an attentive ear, for I know not whether after this year I shall ever be amongst you again. Therefore listen to what I am saying very carefully and take these words to those who could not be present here today .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ...........O People, no prophet or apostle will come after me, and no new faith will be born.Reason well, therefore, O People, and understand my words which I convey to you. I leave behind me two things, the Qur’an and my Sunnah and if you follow these you will never go astray. ...........................'
'
So the above challenge stands for 1439 years and NO NEW ''FAITH & APOSTLE '' has ever come after Islam except those copied from Islam or those 30 liars already Prophesied by Prophet with the first was ' Musailamah al kadzab' already lived during the life of Prophet and so many cults that have born are not religions nor they are Prophets with the Miracles and Scriptures and other issues have been answered well by our brethren here
So Yanndex could you please let us know are you a Bahai, or Ahmadhia -Qadiyani ,etc so that makes you SO CONFUSED even in the articles of our Islamic Faith. ??
Just a Muslim with Glorious Quran and (hadith) sunnah as my guide as in verse 41:33 '' And who is better in speech than one who invites to Allah and does righteousness and says, "Indeed, I am of the Muslims."
Imam Ahmad (17405), at-Tirmidhi (3686) and al-Haakim (4495) narrated via Mishrah ibn Haa ‘aan, from ‘Uqbah ibn ‘Aamir (may Allah be pleased with him) who said:
''I heard the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) say: “If there were to be a Prophet after me, it would be ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab.”
“This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islâm as your religion” [al-Maa’idah 5:3]
Members keep referring to me the above verse but I don't understand how Islam has been perfected for the prophet and Allah has completed his favor on him on that day when Quran is not complete? Al-Maidah is just the chapter 112 by order of revelation of total 114 with hundreds of verses yet to be revealed!
Dear unmi/talibilm/azc,
You are right , Vere 33 40 does say Muhammad is the last Nabi. What I'm alluding is, no where in the Quran it says Muhammad is the last Rasool.
All your references you provided of scholars saying that Muhammad is the last Rasool, it is derived from the hadiths only because they can find none in the Quran.
Of course if a certain narrative is perpetuated long enough , it becomes "established". This is a fact not only in Islam but all other religions.
When the Quran & hadiths differ, how come hadith supersede the word of Allah? There are other examples which I can cite, like the scholars say idols are haram even as art etc. That's because of the hadiths. Also this is an "established" believe for Muslims now. But If you look as the Quran, it only says idolatry is haram, no where it says idols are haram (as long its not for worship). In fact even prophets of Islam had collections of it probably for art/esthetics etc. Again this is a case which seems the hadith has superseded the Quran. How come? I don't get it.
They made for him what he willed: synagogues and statues, basins like wells and boilers built into the ground. Give thanks, O House of David! Few of My bondmen are thankful. (Quran 34 13)
Al-Maidah is just the chapter 112 by order of revelation of total 114 with hundreds of verses yet to be revealed!
Quran was not revealed in form of a complete book like the books of Musa a.s or Isa a.s etc, rather it was revealed bit by bit regardless of order of verses or chapters but all the revealed verses would be added in their respective chapters at the behest of prophet s.a.w.
In other words:
Qur’an’s chapters and verses are not compiled in the mushaf in the chronological order of their revelation. There is consensus that it was Prophet Muhammad s.a.w who identified the place of each verse within its chapter. There are a number of hadiths in the Musnad of Ahmad bin Hanbal ,Sunnan of at-Tarmithi, and other hadith sources that state that the Messenger s.a.w used to tell the recorders of the revelation in which chapters to place newly revealed verses.
The fact that the chapters and verses are not chronologically listed in the mushaf means, among other things, that the earliest verse that was revealed to Prophet Muhammad s.a.w is not the first verse of the first chapter in the mushaf. Similarly, the last verse to be revealed is not the last verse of the mushaf. Put differently, the first and last verses of the mushaf do not represent the first and last verses of the Qur’an.
When the Quran & hadiths differ, how come hadith supersede the word of Allah?
''Thus to you, O Prophet, We have sent down the Quran as a final reminde r of God’s way, so that you make clear to all people the word of God that has come down to them, and so that they may reflect on it and be guided[Sûrat Al-Naḥl, 16:44]
How would prophet s.a.w explain the verses or would infer the rulings from revealed verses would be known to companions RA and details whereof can be seen in in ahadith, fiqh and interpretation of Quran/ahadith.
You are right , Vere 33 40 does say Muhammad is the last Nabi. What I'm alluding is, no where in the Quran it says Muhammad is the last Rasool.
There is difference between a rasool and a nabi.
Rasool is he who would be given a new revealed holy book to guide his nation where nabi had to follow his predecessor's book and guide his nation accordingly.
As Allah s.w.t is all Knowing. He knew some liars till this world exist will keep on emerging to claim of being 'nabi' (not rasool).
If someone claims to be a rasool he's to show a comprehensive revealed holy book, so none could ever claim to be a rasool but some liars claimed to be nabi and this is why Quran outright reject them ''there is NO Nabi after Muhammad s.a.w''
And Muhammad s.a.w is the last Rasool as well as the last nabi.
Members keep referring to me the above verse but I don't understand how Islam has been perfected for the prophet and Allah has completed his favor on him on that day when Quran is not complete? Al-Maidah is just the chapter 112 by order of revelation of total 114 with hundreds of verses yet to be revealed!
Thanks
Each verse was revealed when it was relevant and applied to the situation. Quran was revealed over a period of 23 years, not over night. And it was ordered and compiled into one text book later.
I'm a freethinker from mixed background and yes I have Muslim relatives.
Qur’an’s chapters and verses are not compiled in the mushaf in the chronological order of their revelation. There is consensus that it was Prophet Muhammad s.a.w who identified the place of each verse within its chapter. There are a number of hadiths in the Musnad of Ahmad bin Hanbal ,Sunnan of at-Tarmithi, and other hadith sources that state that the Messenger s.a.w used to tell the recorders of the revelation in which chapters to place newly revealed verses.
The fact that the chapters and verses are not chronologically listed in the mushaf means, among other things, that the earliest verse that was revealed to Prophet Muhammad s.a.w is not the first verse of the first chapter in the mushaf. Similarly, the last verse to be revealed is not the last verse of the mushaf. Put differently, the first and last verses of the mushaf do not represent the first and last verses of the Qur’an.
I understand that the mushaf is not in chronological order of revelation.Al- Maidah is now chapter 5 in the mushaf.
According to scholars including Ibn Abbas the cousin of prophet Muhammad, Al Maidah is chapter 112 of 114. in order of revelation by Allah. My point is that verse 3 that says "Islam has been perfected & Allah has completed his favor on prophet Muhammad on this day" does not make sense if it is not at the end of the Quran and according to Muslim scholar themselves the last verses revealed is not this but in An Nasr!
''Thus to you, O Prophet, We have sent down the Quran as a final reminde r of God’s way, so that you make clear to all people the word of God that has come down to them, and so that they may reflect on it and be guided[Sûrat Al-Naḥl, 16:44]
How would prophet s.a.w explain the verses or would infer the rulings from revealed verses would be known to companions RA and details whereof can be seen in in ahadith, fiqh and interpretation of Quran/ahadith.
Of course hadiths are there to support the Quranic verses but when the is divergence between Quran and hadith, sometimes Muslims choose the hadith over the Quran as I showed in my previous post.
If someone claims to be a rasool he's to show a comprehensive revealed holy book, so none could ever claim to be a rasool but some liars claimed to be nabi and this is why Quran outright reject them ''there is NO Nabi after Muhammad s.a.w''
And Muhammad s.a.w is the last Rasool as well as the last nabi.
Your quote above contradicts with what you quoted in your earlier post as below. Quran says no more Nabi but the hadith says Umar could be one!!
format_quote Originally Posted by azc
@yandex:
Imam Ahmad (17405), at-Tirmidhi (3686) and al-Haakim (4495) narrated via Mishrah ibn Haa ‘aan, from ‘Uqbah ibn ‘Aamir (may Allah be pleased with him) who said:
''I heard the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) say: “If there were to be a Prophet after me, it would be ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab.”
As for new rasools, why not Guru Nanak or Bahau'ullah or others be one? They have a Book, they performed miracles etc according to their believers.
Some of the forum members insist that the holy Book must contain story of Adam & Eve etc to be valid but who set this criteria & why the same story need to be repeated endlessly? For instance, according to the Quran the Sabians are also people of the Book. What is their book? Does it contain Adam & Eve stories, were there mircles by the rasools of the Sabians etc? Also, I don't remember even prophet Muhammad performing any miracles to proof he is a rasool. Why set the bar higher for the rest?
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which was witnessed by 10,000 s which also Reiterated by the spirit of truth (as called by Isa AS ) , Al Ameen , Assaadique, Prophet Muhammad
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