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    How many errors in the bible? (OP)


    Salaam,

    Can anyone provide me a link where we can see the errors or contradictions in the bible? I am just curious.

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    Re: How many errors in the bible?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Abz2000 View Post
    When searching for guidance, primarily we seek that which pleases Allah The Most Just based on all of the knowledge of what we have available to us with wisdom.
    When searching for the best method of application of knowledge, the best and most solid material textual source for wisdom is the Quran, the genuine ahadith of Muhammad show us a part of how he implemented Islaam in reality, then there are books revealed before that, and other knowledge from which we seek knowledge.
    Nothing other than Allah is perfect - not even ourselves - and it is not wise to reject the study of the previously revealed scriptures out of arrogant Shiqaqq - since they do contain guidance of Allah which cannot be found to such an extent in the books from the fiction section found in the bookshops, nor even in the "non-fiction" section penned by liars and other untrustworthy people.
    The Qur'an and Sunnah is sufficient for us. Believing in the previously revealed scriptures does not mean reading and studying them. We believe in what Allah had revealed on Prophets Ibrahim , Musa , 'Isa , Dawood , but Bible that is available today is not the same as what Allah had originally revealed.

    It was narrated from Jaabir ibn ‘Abdullah (may Allah be pleased with him) that ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab (may Allah be pleased with him) came to the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) with some written material he had got from one of the people of the Book. He read it to the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him), and he got angry and said: “Are you confused (about your religion), O son of al-Khattaab? By the One in Whose hand is my soul, I have brought it (the message of Islam) to you clear and pure. Do not ask them about anything, lest they tell you something true and you disbelieve it, or they tell you something false and you believe it. By the One in Whose hand is my soul, if Moosa were alive, he would have no option but to follow me.
    Narrated by Ahmad (14736); classed as hasan by al-Albaani in Irwa’ al-Ghaleel, 6/34

    Nobody is better than 'Umar . When the prophet stopped 'Umar from reading the parts of Torah, what can be said about lay Muslims today?



    Quote Originally Posted by Abz2000 View Post
    So it is a bit weird to find people who read fiction and highly doubtful "non-fictional" books, and watch fictional movies and highly doubtful "non-fictional" documentaries and "news" pieces - actually attempting to slander the previous scriptures despite the obvious fact that much higher wisdom is to be found in them.
    Reading Bible cannot be compared to reading fiction. When someone reads fiction, he knows what he is reading is fiction and that it is not true. But when someone reads Bible, there is no indication as to which verses are preserved and which ones are edited and changed. It is not possible for anyone to separate the True words of Allah as revealed from the ones corrupted by the writers/compilers of the Bible. That is one of the main reasons mentioned in the Hadith prohibiting its reading, as mentioned above.



    Quote Originally Posted by Abz2000 View Post
    If any of you please - read daniel 6, and compare it with the white house minutes. Which one after the Quran makes you remember and seek to obey Allah more?
    We don't have to, because it has been narrated that Rasulullah said:
    ـ " أعطيت السبع الطوال ، مكان التوراة ، وأعطيت المئين مكان الإنجيل ، وأعطيت المثاني مكان الزبور ، وفضلت بالمفصل " ـ
    I have been given the seven long Surahs in place of Torah, and I have been given ma'een in place of Injeel, and I have been given mathani in place of Zaboor, and I have been distinguished with mufassal. [Tabarani]


    • The Seven Long Ones (Sab'ah Tiwal) refers to the 7 longest surahs in al-Quran, comprising of al-Baqarah, Ali Imra, an-Nisaa, Al-Maidah, al-An'am, al-A'raf, with the 7th surah being debated whether it is al-Anfal and at-Taubah being considered as one or surah Yunus.
    • The Ma'in or hundreds, refers to the surahs in al-Quran whose verses exceed 100 or nearing to it.
    • Mathani are surahs whose verses are lesser than Ma'in and they are called Mathani because they are more frequently recited again and again in comparison to the Sab'a Tuwal and Ma'in.
    • The Mufassal are surahs in al-Quran starting from Surah Qaf or some scholars say its al-Hujurat, till the end of al-Quran, i.e. surah an-Nas.



    Allah says:


    “Is it not sufficient for them that We have sent down to you the Book (the Quran) which is recited to them? Verily, herein is mercy and a reminder (or an admonition) for a people who believe” [al-‘Ankaboot 29:51].
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    Re: How many errors in the bible?

    @AabiruSabeel
    Wa
    It is important that you consider me as discussing a topic of study rather than arguing to win a debate - since the truth is Allah's and not mine, our duty as humans is to mutually seek the truth and not simply to defend the ways of our forefathers.

    If i am not welcome to comment on what is on my mind - you may inform me and i will refrain from speaking that which i am unwelcome to say to you as i consider myself a guest on this forum which is owned by others than myself.
    If however it is ok to honestly discuss topics that may appear controversial to some people - though with all due respect and with a will to understand the truth in lieu of simply reinforcing our previously held opinions despite the doubtful and shaky foundations of such notions within ourselves - then i will reply to your post inshaAllah

    My first request in this respect would be to reinstate my post which was posted with knowledge and humility in reply to certain claims of a poster - who apparently held the mistaken notion that Prophets are above the mistakes which other humans commit, and that the actions of certain sahabas were above respectful criticism despite the fact that most of the disputes arbitrated and punishments carried out by the Messenger of Allah in al Madinah were amongst his sahabah who were human and converts to Islam.

    I believe that holding imaginary halos over their heads gives us a false impression of them and that it is impossible to actually understand them and their circumstances unless we acknowledge that all perfection is Allah's and that all others are below such standard - be they Prophets, or companions, or later followers, or rejectors - although to each is due -due respect.


    And Allah knows best.

    I await your decision on my post deleted on somebody else's request by moderator "Eesa the kiwi" .
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    How many errors in the bible?













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    Re: How many errors in the bible?

    Quran surah Ali ‘Imran 78-79

    78) {And indeed, there is among them a party who alter the Scripture with their tongues so you may think it is from the Scripture, but it is not from the Scripture. And they say, “This is from Allah,” but it is not from Allah. And they speak untruth about Allah while they know}

    79) {It is not for a human [prophet] that Allah should give him the Scripture and authority and prophethood and then he would say to the people, “Be servants to me rather than Allah,” but [instead, he would say], “Be pious scholars of the Lord because of what you have taught of the Scripture and because of what you have studied}

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    Re: How many errors in the bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Abz2000 View Post
    It is important that you consider me as discussing a topic of study rather than arguing to win a debate
    I know you are not arguing to win a debate and just discussing the study of Bible. All I am saying is that when we have the Qur'an and Sunnah, there is no reason to study the Bible, more so when we all know that is not preserved in its original form. Even if the Torah and Injil were preserved in their original forms, the Qur'an has superseded all of them and the Prophet became angry when a great companion like 'Umar started reading some parts of it. Who are me and you as compared to 'Umar ? Please see my above post once again.

    Even if someone wants to read them for the purpose of Da'wah, first he must be well versed in the whole Qur'an, its meanings and Tafsir. He should be well grounded in the Islamic resources before he starts reading any other scriptures.

    Quote Originally Posted by Abz2000 View Post
    who apparently held the mistaken notion that Prophets are above the mistakes which other humans commit,
    See, this is what reading Bible has done to you. The translators of Bible depict the Prophets as sinners. They are very disrespectful when speaking of the Prophets and Messengers.

    Allah had chosen the Prophets to be guides for mankind. He protected them from all sorts of sins. How would Allah allow them to disobey Him when He wanted them to be role models for mankind?

    Please see the following quote from Al-Fiqh Al-Akbar,
    Quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim View Post
    باب صفات الأنبياء وعصمتهم وبيان مقام النبي صلى الله تعالى عليه وآله وسلم:

    The Prophets Attributes, their infallibility, and the high status of the Prophet, sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi wa sallam:

    -47 والأنبياء عليهم الصلاة والسلام آلهم منزهون عن الصغائر والكبائر والكفر والقبائح وقد آانت منهم زلات وخطايا.

    47. The Prophets, Alayhem assalatu wassalam, are infallibles of all sins, whether major, minor, or disbelief, and of all that is detestable/distasteful. It may be, however, that they commit insignificant lapses and inaccuracies [those are not true errors, as they usually indicate choosing the good, not the best. Secondly and most importantly, the Prophets, alayhem assalam, are immediately alerted to any lapses, and constantly directed by Allah
    towards the best].

    -48 ومحمد عليه الصلاة والسلام حبيبه وعبده ورسوله ونبيه وصفيه ونقيه ولم يعبد الصنم ولم يشرك بالله تعالى طرفة عين قط ولم يرتكب صغيرة ولا آبيرة قط.

    48. And Muhammad, alayhi assalatu wassalam, is His beloved, His worshipper, His Messenger, His Prophet, His pious one, and His Chosen One. He never worshipped idols,he never associated anything with Allah, not even for a blink of an eye, and he never committed a sin, major or minor, ever.
    See also: http://seekershub.org/ans-blog/2010/...-in-the-quran/

    and http://islamqa.org/hanafi/muftisays/9125


    Quote Originally Posted by Abz2000 View Post
    I believe that holding imaginary halos over their heads gives us a false impression of them and that it is impossible to actually understand them and their circumstances unless we acknowledge that all perfection is Allah's and that all others are below such standard - be they Prophets, or companions, or later followers, or rejectors - although to each is due -due respect.
    The Sahabah were also chosen by Allah to be the companions of the Messenger of Allah . They were the best people who ever lived on earth. They are the best of all generations. Once again, your wording in your post regarding Abu Hurairah was inappropriate.

    Narrated Abu Sa`id :
    The Prophet said, "Do not abuse my companions for if any one of you spent gold equal to Uhud (in Allah's Cause) it would not be equal to a Mud or even a half Mud spent by one of them." [Bukhari]

    They were not perfect, as they were all human beings. But we do not mention them except in good terms.

    Also, see the following quote from Al-Fiqh Al-Akbar,

    Quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim View Post
    باب الخلفاء الراشدين وآونهم على الحق وأهمية اتباعهم وولائهم رضي الله تعالى عنهم:

    The Righteous Caliphates, their righteous path and the importance of following and supporting them may Allah be pleased with them:

    -49 وأفضل الناس بعد النبيين عليهم الصلاة والسلام أبو بكر الصديق, ثم عمر بن الخطاب الفاروق, ثم عثمان بن عفان ذو النورين, ثم علي بن أبي طالب المرتضى رضوان الله تعالى عليهم أجمعين عابدين ثابتين على الحق ومع الحق نتولاهم جميعاً.

    49. The best of people after the Messengers of Allah, alayhem assalatu wassalam, are Abu Bakr as-Siddeeq, then 'Umar bin al-Khattab Al-Faruq; then 'Uthman bin 'Affan Thu-Nurayn [the one with two noors (lights)]; then 'Ali bin Abi Taleb Al-Murtada [the chosen one], may Allah be pleased with them all. They were all [true] worshippers, steadfast on the true path, remained [always] with the truth, and we declare our loyalty and love to all of them.

    -50 ولانذآر أحداً من أصحاب رسول الله إلا بخير.

    50. We do not mention any of the Companions of the Messenger of Allah except righteously.
    See also, http://islamqa.org/hanafi/askimam/11349
    Last edited by AabiruSabeel; 07-26-2018 at 08:09 PM. Reason: ..

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    Re: How many errors in the bible?

    @AabiruSabeel



    فَاعْلَمْ أَنَّهُ لَا إِلَٰهَ إِلَّا اللَّهُ وَاسْتَغْفِرْ
    لِذَنبِكَ
    وَلِلْمُؤْمِنِينَ وَالْمُؤْمِنَاتِ وَاللَّهُ يَعْلَمُ مُتَقَلَّبَكُمْ وَمَثْوَاكُمْ

    M. M. Pickthall
    So know (O Muhammad) that there is no Allah save Allah, and ask forgiveness for thy sin and for believing men and believing women. Allah knoweth (both) your place of turmoil and your place of rest.

    Yusuf Ali (Saudi Rev. 1985)
    Know, therefore, that there is no god but Allah, and ask forgiveness for thy fault, and for the men and women who believe: for Allah knows how ye move about and how ye dwell in your homes.

    Quran, Chapter 47, Verse 19



    قَالَ فَعَلْتُهَا إِذًا وَأَنَا مِنَ
    الضَّالِّينَ

    M. M. Pickthall
    He said: I did it then, when I was of those who are astray.

    Yusuf Ali (Saudi Rev. 1985)
    Moses said: "I did it then, when I was in error.

    Quran, Chapter 26, Verse 20


    The problem that occurs when refusing to subject the actions of Sahabah to constructive criticism - and sometimes those of Prophets too is that certain people falsely assume them to be idols or mascots and attempt to use any uncontextual action or mistake they commit as a ruling.
    Rather - any individual should be made subject to Allah 's submission and obedience.

    Some people ignorantly take offence out of false pride when:
    A person uses a narration containing a mistake, and another doesn't absorb the arrow and points out the flaw in order to clarify and not indicate silent acceptance, then another says: oh maan, this is the bible you are referring to - you're a heretic.



    وَلَا تُجَادِلُوا أَهْلَ الْكِتَابِ إِلَّا بِالَّتِي هِيَ أَحْسَنُ إِلَّا الَّذِينَ ظَلَمُوا مِنْهُمْ وَقُولُوا آمَنَّا بِالَّذِي أُنزِلَ إِلَيْنَا وَأُنزِلَ إِلَيْكُمْ وَإِلَٰهُنَا وَإِلَٰهُكُمْ وَاحِدٌ وَنَحْنُ لَهُ مُسْلِمُونَ

    M. M. Pickthall
    And argue not with the People of the Scripture unless it be in (a way) that is better, save with such of them as do wrong; and say: We believe in that which hath been revealed unto us and revealed unto you; our Allah and your Allah is One, and unto Him we surrender.

    Yusuf Ali (Saudi Rev. 1985)
    And dispute ye not with the People of the Book, except with means better (than mere disputation), unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong (and injury): but say, "We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; Our Allah and your Allah is one; and it is to Him we bow (in Islam)."

    Quran, Chapter 29, Verse 46



    It happened to me before where a guy was just shaking his head out of dumbstruck denial at my pointing out of facts and my judgement and balance compel me to look at it all in perspective, so rather than making false idols - i simply return to subjecting all - regardless of who - to the most recent judgement of Allah in context.

    Some people have come to the extent of taking exception to questioning narrations recorded Al Bukhari and subjecting them to scholarly criticism - demanding that each narration be accepted as gospel - however - anyone with a brain knows that this is a flawed study approach.....


    ....the authenticated chain in this instance is in reality inauthentic despite the stringent methods used - this is easily discernable from the overwhelming facts:


    Narrated `Aisha and Ibn `Abbas:
    The Prophet (ﷺ) remained in Mecca for ten years, during which the Qur'an used to be revealed to him; and he stayed in Medina for ten years.

    حَدَّثَنَا عُبَيْدُ اللَّهِ بْنُ مُوسَى، عَنْ شَيْبَانَ، عَنْ يَحْيَى، عَنْ أَبِي سَلَمَةَ، قَالَ أَخْبَرَتْنِي عَائِشَةُ، وَابْنُ، عَبَّاسٍ رضى الله عنهم قَالاَ لَبِثَ النَّبِيُّ صلى الله عليه وسلم بِمَكَّةَ عَشْرَ سِنِينَ يُنْزَلُ عَلَيْهِ الْقُرْآنُ وَبِالْمَدِينَةِ عَشْرَ سِنِينَ.

    Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 4978, 4979
    In-book reference : Book 66, Hadith 1
    USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 6, Book 61, Hadith 502
    (deprecated numbering scheme)

    https://sunnah.com/bukhari/66



    10+10 does not equal 23, it is therefore-easy to ascertain that imam al bukhari authenticated a flawed narration simply because it passed the chain test and didn't subject it to overall truth.


    Unless we learn to subject everything -whether the Bible, the Quran, the ahadith, the Prophets, the disciples, george washington, nehru, bangabandu, attaturk, the constitutions, the u.n, the security council, assad, the mujahideen, the politicians, N.I.S.T, F.E.M.A , the news media, the science books, the math books, the economists, the renowned scientists, our fathers, our mothers, our selves - to just truth in Allah's obedience in proper context, we will continue to accept fallacies and to reject plain sense.


    And it is unwise to accept or cut down without thinking - everything that a perceived friend or opponent lays claim to in the process of agreeing or arguing with each other out of well intended zeal.

    We are all looking at diiferent computers linked to the same server - the Quran can be compared to the one with the most recent update and firewall, however it wouldn't be wise to throw away all the other computers without a proper well thought analysis since it is a fact that they contain bits of essential data not contained in the most recent. Opening them in virtual machine with the computer that has the latest update is usually the most viable option.


    Where is your plumbline to be held?


    Let us not say "quloobunaa ghulf".

    criticism
    noun
    the expression of disapproval of someone or something on the basis of perceived faults or mistakes.

    the analysis and judgement of the merits and faults of a literary or artistic work.
    Last edited by Abz2000; 07-27-2018 at 12:56 PM.
    How many errors in the bible?













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    Re: How many errors in the bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by AabiruSabeel View Post
    I know you are not arguing to win a debate and just discussing the study of Bible. All I am saying is that when we have the Qur'an and Sunnah, there is no reason to study the Bible, more so when we all know that is not preserved in its original form. Even if the Torah and Injil were preserved in their original forms, the Qur'an has superseded all of them and the Prophet became angry when a great companion like 'Umar started reading some parts of it. Who are me and you as compared to 'Umar ? Please see my above post once again.

    Even if someone wants to read them for the purpose of Da'wah, first he must be well versed in the whole Qur'an, its meanings and Tafsir. He should be well grounded in the Islamic resources before he starts reading any other scriptures.



    See, this is what reading Bible has done to you. The translators of Bible depict the Prophets as sinners. They are very disrespectful when speaking of the Prophets and Messengers.

    Allah had chosen the Prophets to be guides for mankind. He protected them from all sorts of sins. How would Allah allow them to disobey Him when He wanted them to be role models for mankind?

    Please see the following quote from Al-Fiqh Al-Akbar,


    See also: http://seekershub.org/ans-blog/2010/...-in-the-quran/

    and http://islamqa.org/hanafi/muftisays/9125




    The Sahabah were also chosen by Allah to be the companions of the Messenger of Allah . They were the best people who ever lived on earth. They are the best of all generations. Once again, your wording in your post regarding Abu Hurairah was inappropriate.

    Narrated Abu Sa`id :
    The Prophet said, "Do not abuse my companions for if any one of you spent gold equal to Uhud (in Allah's Cause) it would not be equal to a Mud or even a half Mud spent by one of them." [Bukhari]

    They were not perfect, as they were all human beings. But we do not mention them except in good terms.

    Also, see the following quote from Al-Fiqh Al-Akbar,



    See also, http://islamqa.org/hanafi/askimam/11349
    In every era of human history, Allah Ta’ala sent two sources of guidance for the reformation of mankind. The first source was the divine revelation of Allah Ta’ala (i.e. the heavenly books and scriptures), and the second was the men of Allah Ta’ala (the Ambiya Alaihimus Salaam).

    The Ambiya (Alaihimus Salaam) were sent in order to practically demonstrate before people the correct application of the laws of Shari’ah through their noble example. Furthermore, it was the divine system of Allah Ta’ala that He selected companions from among the Ummah of every Nabi in order to support them in accomplishing the mission of Nubuwwat. From among the ummah of Hazrat Nabi-e-Kareem (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam), those who were divinely chosen by Allah Ta’ala were none other than the illustrious Sahaabah (Radhiyallahu Anhum) of Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam).

    Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) himself highlighted this, as reported in the following Hadith:

    عن عويم بن ساعدة رضي الله عنه أن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم قال : إن الله اختارني واختار لي أصحابا )مجمع الزوائد 9/738(

    Hazrat Uwaim bin Saa’idah (Radiyallahu Anhu) reports that Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) said, “Allah Ta’ala chose me (to be the final messenger) and chose for me my Sahaabah (as my supporters).”

    It is reported in the Mubaarak Hadith that Allah Ta’ala looked at the hearts of the creation. He found the heart of Nabi Muhammad (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam) to be the best of hearts. Therefore, he selected him for Himself and sent him with His message. Thereafter, Allah Ta’ala looked at the hearts of the rest of the creation after selecting Nabi Muhammad (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam). He then found the hearts of the Sahaabah (Radhiyallahu Anhum) of Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam) to be the best hearts (from the entire creation after the Ambiya Alaihimus Salaam). Hence, He divinely selected them as the supporters of His Nabi (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam) who will fight against the kuffaar for the course of His deen.”

    (Musnad-e-Ahmed 6/84)
    http://ihyaauddeen.co.za/?p=12264

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    Re: How many errors in the bible?

    وَمِمَّنْ حَوْلَكُم مِّنَ الْأَعْرَابِ مُنَافِقُونَ وَمِنْ أَهْلِ الْمَدِينَةِ مَرَدُوا عَلَى النِّفَاقِ لَا تَعْلَمُهُمْ نَحْنُ نَعْلَمُهُمْ سَنُعَذِّبُهُم مَّرَّتَيْنِ ثُمَّ يُرَدُّونَ إِلَىٰ عَذَابٍ عَظِيمٍ

    M. M. Pickthall
    And among those around you of the wandering Arabs there are hypocrites, and among the townspeople of Al-Madinah (there are some who) persist in hypocrisy whom thou (O Muhammad) knowest not. We, We know them, and We shall chastise them twice; then they will be relegated to a painful doom.

    Yusuf Ali (Saudi Rev. 1985) Certain of the desert Arabs round about you are hypocrites, as well as (desert Arabs) among the Medina folk: they are obstinate in hypocrisy: thou knowest them not: We know them: twice shall We punish them: and in addition shall they be sent to a grievous penalty.



    43:63 When Jesus came with Clear Signs, he said: “Now have I come to you with Wisdom,
    and in order to make clear to you some of the (points) on which ye dispute: therefore
    fear Allah and obey me.”

    5:46 And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Torah that had
    come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and
    confirmation of the Torah that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to
    those who fear Allah.


    61:6 And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said: “O Children of Israel! I am the messenger
    of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving Glad
    Tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad.” But when he
    came to them with Clear Signs, they said, “this is evident sorcery!”


    ((( Bear in mind that copies the Torah had apparently already been edited by corrupt scribes long before Jesus arrived on the scene - the narrations of the corrupt kings who had persecuted Jeremiah and other Prophets from Allah , the events during and after the babylonian captivity, and the wranglings with the leaders at the temple also shows that they had come far from the spirit of the teachings - but the fact is that humans are not required to submit to false laws, nor to the misuse and abuse of genuine laws via compartmentalization like blind sheep - rather they are required to seek the truth wherever they find it and thereby inevitably find Allah and free themselves from slavery and vice to Satan and his allies, by following the latest messenger and obeying Allah in submission to Him )))

    5:75 Christ the son of Mary was no more than a messenger; many were the messengers
    that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat
    their (daily) food.

    5:116 Allah will say: “O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my
    mother as gods in derogation of Allah’?” He will say: “Glory to Thee! never could I say
    what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it.
    Thou knowest what is in my heart whilst i know not what is in thine . . .”

    ---
    Widespread anarchy and being content with division out of 'asabiyyah is a sign of the hour - the option for everyone to unite upon the truth was there - don't blame God, blame yourselves o people of the galaxy..

    Anyways, from the look of things - it becomes obvious that the people upon whom the hour comes will be the worst of fools who deceived themselves and obeyed their mistaken and corrupt rulers in all that is false and corrupt. The scales of the day of judgement will not lie or deceive themselves though.
    ---

    3:55 Behold! Allah said: “O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of
    the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to
    those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and
    I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.”





    Last edited by Abz2000; 07-27-2018 at 07:44 PM.
    How many errors in the bible?













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    Re: How many errors in the bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Abz2000 View Post
    فَاعْلَمْ أَنَّهُ لَا إِلَٰهَ إِلَّا اللَّهُ وَاسْتَغْفِرْ
    لِذَنبِكَ
    وَلِلْمُؤْمِنِينَ وَالْمُؤْمِنَاتِ وَاللَّهُ يَعْلَمُ مُتَقَلَّبَكُمْ وَمَثْوَاكُمْ

    M. M. Pickthall
    So know (O Muhammad) that there is no Allah save Allah, and ask forgiveness for thy sin and for believing men and believing women. Allah knoweth (both) your place of turmoil and your place of rest.
    Please see detailed explanation of this Ayah here: http://seekershub.org/ans-blog/2014/...r-forgiveness/

    Also see the explanation given in Ma'ariful Qur'an:


    Quote Originally Posted by Abz2000 View Post
    We are all looking at diiferent computers linked to the same server - the Quran can be compared to the one with the most recent update and firewall, however it wouldn't be wise to throw away all the other computers without a proper well thought analysis since it is a fact that they contain bits of essential data not contained in the most recent.
    No, this is not correct. The Qur'an is complete and it contains all the essential instructions that you need. Saying anything contrary to it actually kufr, that is if you regard Qur'an as incomplete in its message.

    If you say something about non-essential data such as what were the names of brothers of Yusuf , what was the name of the servant of Musa etc then that statement could be acceptable. But when you say essential bits of data, then you are gravely mistaken.



    Quote Originally Posted by Abz2000 View Post
    The problem that occurs when refusing to subject the actions of Sahabah to constructive criticism - and sometimes those of Prophets too is that certain people falsely assume them to be idols or mascots and attempt to use any uncontextual action or mistake they commit as a ruling.
    Criticism can only be allowed by superiors or their peers. For example, if a Prophet made a mistake in judgement, only Allah can correct them, which is already mentioned in the Qur'an. They immediately corrected their judgement and repented towards Allah .

    If a sahabi made a mistake, the Prophet corrected him immediately and they wholeheartedly accepted and corrected themselves. After the prophet, their superiors such as the Khulafa Rashideen corrected them. It is all recorded in the Ahadeeth.

    Now if someone comes after 1439 years and says such and such Sahabi did such and such, we do not allow that. Nobody understands them and their context, their circumstances better than the Sahabah present at their time. So if any mistake happened, it was all corrected then and there itself. Me and you have no right and no authority to point out their mistakes. It is extremely disrespectful to do that.

    Allah chose them to be role models for us. Their mistakes and corrections are also lessons for us to learn from. For example, once the Prophet and the Sahabh who were travelling with him overslept and woke up after the sun had risen. It was a lesson for us to know what to do in such a situation. We do not call these mistakes as sins.

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    Re: How many errors in the bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by AabiruSabeel View Post
    Please see detailed explanation of this Ayah here: http://seekershub.org/ans-blog/2014/...r-forgiveness/

    Also see the explanation given in Ma'ariful Qur'an:




    No, this is not correct. The Qur'an is complete and it contains all the essential instructions that you need. Saying anything contrary to it actually kufr, that is if you regard Qur'an as incomplete in its message.

    If you say something about non-essential data such as what were the names of brothers of Yusuf , what was the name of the servant of Musa etc then that statement could be acceptable. But when you say essential bits of data, then you are gravely mistaken.





    Criticism can only be allowed by superiors or their peers. For example, if a Prophet made a mistake in judgement, only Allah can correct them, which is already mentioned in the Qur'an. They immediately corrected their judgement and repented towards Allah .

    If a sahabi made a mistake, the Prophet corrected him immediately and they wholeheartedly accepted and corrected themselves. After the prophet, their superiors such as the Khulafa Rashideen corrected them. It is all recorded in the Ahadeeth.

    Now if someone comes after 1439 years and says such and such Sahabi did such and such, we do not allow that. Nobody understands them and their context, their circumstances better than the Sahabah present at their time. So if any mistake happened, it was all corrected then and there itself. Me and you have no right and no authority to point out their mistakes. It is extremely disrespectful to do that.

    Allah chose them to be role models for us. Their mistakes and corrections are also lessons for us to learn from. For example, once the Prophet and the Sahabh who were travelling with him overslept and woke up after the sun had risen. It was a lesson for us to know what to do in such a situation. We do not call these mistakes as sins.


    The facts are plain for all despite what insecure ignorant people and illusionists may claim, and simple logic leads to the fact that Allah alone is free from imperfection - and the verse ---- they have taken for worship their rabbis and monks (includes teachers, ministers, prime ministers, queens, kings, presidents, congressemen, and senators, and scientists...) , and jesus son of mary (includes news media false prophets (nabees) ) as gods in place of Allah despite being commanded to worship none except One God, exalted is He from what they associate --- speaks volumes.

    The fact that my comment was removed displays clearly that this is not really an intellectual discussion and that some people believe whilst simultaneously not believing that the quran should have been copy pasted everywhere and all other knowledge is useless - despite the Quran primarily being a book of guidance to fundamental wisdom and not primarily one of knowledge. Go check your Quran to see if it says quran il aleem anywhere - rather it says quran il hakeem and speaks of ilm and ul al ilm separately.

    I mean - according to dodgy logic, we shouldn't even be discussing things on the net or reading books of flawed scholars since nothing other than the Quran is needed.



    The fact that alcohol was lawful before the three stage prohibition in the Quran, and what alcohol does to people points to the fact that prophets and their companions were not free from sins/faults/errors,


    Husain b. 'Ali reported 'Ali having said:
    There fell to my lot a she-camel out of the spoils of war on the Day of Badr, and Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) gave me (another) she-camel on that day out of the Khums (one-fifth reserved for Allah and His Messenger). When I made up my mind to consummate my marriage with Fatima, the daughter of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ), I prevailed upon a goldsmith of the tribe of Qainuqa' to go along with me so that we might bring Idhkhir wishing to sell that to the goldsmiths and thus I should be able to arrange my wedding feast. While I was arranging the equipments. i. e. litters, sacks and ropes, my two she-camels were sitting down at the side of the apartment of a person of the Ansar. I collected (the different articles of equipment) and found to my surprise that their humps had been chopped off and their haunches had been cut off and their livers had been taken out. I could not help weeping when I saw that plight of theirs. I said: Who has done that? They said: Hamza b. 'Abd al-Muttalib has done this. and he is in this house dead drunk in the company of some of the Ansair with asinging girl singing before him and his companions. She said in her song: O Hamza. get up and attack these falty she-camels. Thereupon Hamza stood up with a sword (in his hand) and cut off their humps and ripped their haunches and tore out their livers. 'Ali said: I went away until I came to Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) and there was with him Zaid b. Haritha. Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) recognised from my face what I had experienced, whereupon Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said: What has happened to you? I said: Messenger of Allah, by Allah, I have never seen (such an unfortunate day) as this day. Hamza has committed aggression to my she-camels, and has cut off their humps. and ripped their haunches, and he is in a house in the company of some drunkards. (Hearing this) Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) sent for his mantle and, putting it on him, he proceeded, and I and Zaid b. Haritha followed him, until he came to the door (of the house) in which there was Hamza. He (the Holy Prophet) sought permission which they granted him. and they were all drunk. Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) began to reprimand Hamza for what he had done. Hamza's eyes were red. He cast a glance at Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) and then looked towards his knees. and then lifted his eyes and cast a glance at his waist and then lifted his eyes and saw his face. And then Hamza said: Are you anything but the slaves of my father? Alah's Messenger (ﷺ) came to know that he was intoxicated, and he thus turned upon his heels, and came out, and we also came out along with him.
    وَحَدَّثَنِي أَبُو بَكْرِ بْنُ إِسْحَاقَ، أَخْبَرَنَا سَعِيدُ بْنُ كَثِيرِ بْنِ عُفَيْرٍ أَبُو عُثْمَانَ الْمِصْرِيُّ، حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ اللَّهِ بْنُ وَهْبٍ، حَدَّثَنِي يُونُسُ بْنُ يَزِيدَ، عَنِ ابْنِ شِهَابٍ، أَخْبَرَنِي عَلِيُّ بْنُ حُسَيْنِ، بْنِ عَلِيٍّ أَنَّ حُسَيْنَ بْنَ عَلِيٍّ، أَخْبَرَهُ أَنَّ عَلِيًّا قَالَ كَانَتْ لِي شَارِفٌ مِنْ نَصِيبِي مِنَ الْمَغْنَمِ يَوْمَ بَدْرٍ وَكَانَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم أَعْطَانِي شَارِفًا مِنَ الْخُمُسِ يَوْمَئِذٍ فَلَمَّا أَرَدْتُ أَنْ أَبْتَنِيَ بِفَاطِمَةَ بِنْتِ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم وَاعَدْتُ رَجُلاً صَوَّاغًا مِنْ بَنِي قَيْنُقَاعَ يَرْتَحِلُ مَعِيَ فَنَأْتِي بِإِذْخِرٍ أَرَدْتُ أَنْ أَبِيعَهُ مِنَ الصَّوَّاغِينَ فَأَسْتَعِينَ بِهِ فِي وَلِيمَةِ عُرْسِي فَبَيْنَا أَنَا أَجْمَعُ لِشَارِفَىَّ مَتَاعًا مِنَ الأَقْتَابِ وَالْغَرَائِرِ وَالْحِبَالِ وَشَارِفَاىَ مُنَاخَانِ إِلَى جَنْبِ حُجْرَةِ رَجُلٍ مِنَ الأَنْصَارِ وَجَمَعْتُ حِينَ جَمَعْتُ مَا جَمَعْتُ فَإِذَا شَارِفَاىَ قَدِ اجْتُبَّتْ أَسْنِمَتُهُمَا وَبُقِرَتْ خَوَاصِرُهُمَا وَأُخِذَ مِنْ أَكْبَادِهِمَا فَلَمْ أَمْلِكْ عَيْنَىَّ حِينَ رَأَيْتُ ذَلِكَ الْمَنْظَرَ مِنْهُمَا قُلْتُ مَنْ فَعَلَ هَذَا قَالُوا فَعَلَهُ حَمْزَةُ بْنُ عَبْدِ الْمُطَّلِبِ وَهُوَ فِي هَذَا الْبَيْتِ فِي شَرْبٍ مِنَ الأَنْصَارِ غَنَّتْهُ قَيْنَةٌ وَأَصْحَابَهُ فَقَالَتْ فِي غِنَائِهَا أَلاَ يَا حَمْزَ لِلشُّرُفِ النِّوَاءِ فَقَامَ حَمْزَةُ بِالسَّيْف

    And the fact that these statements were recorded by knowledgeable and wise tabi'een after the companions -and are available to us today shows us that there is yet much to learn from discussion when narrating them to our children - they would probably have been expunged as blasphemy and kufr by certain people of today if it wasn't the case that imam al bukhari recorded it.


    You can ban me if you want to - but i am not going to waste time arguing how many sides a circle has if we imagine that it is a square - i have children to teach - and oh the irony, the fact that the wisdom of the Quran is discarded in corrupt society has forced me to resort to teaching them from almost exclusively the Quran in their young age - simply so that they have some sort of basis when they reach maturity and face society - although i would have preferred that i could have also had them learn physics and biology from Quran based God fearing teachers not bent on trying to get friendly with unlawful aims towards their stupid mum.
    Last edited by Abz2000; 07-27-2018 at 03:29 PM.
    How many errors in the bible?













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    Re: How many errors in the bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Abz2000 View Post
    The facts are plain for all despite what insecure ignorant people and illusionists may claim, and simple logic leads to the fact that Allah alone is free from imperfection - and the verse ---- they have taken for worship their rabbis and monks (includes teachers, ministers, prime ministers, queens, kings, presidents, congressemen, and senators, and scientists...) , and jesus son of mary (includes news media false prophets (nabees) ) as gods in place of Allah despite being commanded to worship none except One God, exalted is He from what they associate --- speaks volumes.
    Nobody is worshiping them as gods. When Allah Himself chose the Prophets, Messengers and their companions to be role models for mankind, we have to follow them and take them as examples for us.

    Did not Allah say,
    Those are the ones whom Allah has guided, so from their guidance take an example. [6:90]

    Quote Originally Posted by Abz2000 View Post
    I mean - according to dodgy logic, we shouldn't even be discussing things on the net or reading books of flawed scholars since nothing other than the Quran is needed.
    You are not understanding the point properly. In terms of matters related to the Deen of Islam, do you need anything other than the Qur'an and Sunnah? Who needs to study Bible to understand Islam? Did not Allah say,
    This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion. [5:3]

    If anyone believes that Qur'an needs Bible or any other previous scripture as supplement to complete the message of Islam, then he has actually committed kufr and must repent.


    Regarding the stories of the Prophets, Allah says,
    There was certainly in their stories a lesson for those of understanding. Never was the Qur'an a narration invented, but a confirmation of what was before it and a detailed explanation of all things and guidance and mercy for a people who believe. [12:111]

    The bits and details found in Bible regarding previous Prophets and Messengers are non-essential details, which is why Allah did not include them in the Qur'an. We can neither confirm the authenticity of those details, not can we deny them, because the prophet said,
    Do not ask them about anything, lest they tell you something true and you disbelieve it, or they tell you something false and you believe it. [Ahmad]


    Quote Originally Posted by Abz2000 View Post
    The fact that alcohol was lawful before the three stage prohibition in the Quran, and what alcohol does to people points to the fact that prophets and their companions were not free from sins/faults/errors,
    Whatever the Sahabah did before accepting Islam is all forgiven when they accepted Islam. Similarly, whatever they have done before the prohibition of alcohol cannot be considered a sin, because it wasn't even prohibited in the first place. As soon as it was declared as forbidden, they refrained from it and poured all alcohol drums on the ground.

    When Allah Himself says about them Allah being pleased with them and they with Him. [98:8], then there is no doubt left regarding their acceptance in front of Allah.

    Quote Originally Posted by Abz2000 View Post
    And the fact that these statements were recorded by knowledgeable and wise tabi'een after the companions -and are available to us today shows us that there is yet much to learn from discussion when narrating them to our children - they would probably have been expunged as blasphemy and kufr by certain people of today if it wasn't the case that imam al bukhari recorded it.
    The narrations mention the incidents for teaching purpose, not for denigrating them. They are all forgiven for their mistakes and Allah is pleased with them . We hold them in high esteem. They believed in the Prophet when everyone else opposed him. They were the best students of the best teacher. Their generation was the best of all generations. They were the most civilized people who ever lived on earth.

    Belittling the Prophets and their companions will not be tolerated here. If anyone does that, then his Imaan is at stake. Because Allah says in Hadith Qudsi, من عادى لي وليا فقد آذنته بالحرب (Whosoever shows enmity to a wali (friend) of Mine, then I have declared war against him.) [Bukhari].
    How many errors in the bible?

    تَقَـبَّـلَ اللهُ مِنَّـا وَمِنْـكُم

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    Re: How many errors in the bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by AabiruSabeel View Post
    Nobody is worshiping them as gods.
    You know for a fact that this is an untrue statement, there are multiple examples of this fact and that is the reason why Allah mentions it, the hadith of adiyy ibn haatim at-tay's question on the topic and the Prophet's answer explains it clearly.
    Multiple people wrongly do it in the form of falsely claiming that Christ is Allah, and when they accept corrupt laws made by politicians in defiance of true justice in the sight of Allah the Most Just.

    When Allah clearly tells us that Musa killed a man with a punch and sought forgiveness for having wronged himself, and that Allah forgave him, and then when Pharaoh tried to make him feel small because of it, and Musa replied that he had done it when he was of those erring, it is worship of scholars to accept their false claim that Prophets are incapable of commiting sins and repentance to Allah is required when we realise our mistakes.

    Quote Originally Posted by AabiruSabeel View Post
    When Allah Himself chose the Prophets, Messengers and their companions to be role models for mankind, we have to follow them and take them as examples for us.
    We have to follow them in all that is just in Allah's sight, not by emulating their flaws, and when we read these verses to our children, we should clearly explain that it isn't right to kill people unjustly, and that Musa was human and that he had commited a sin and Allah had accepted his repentance and taken the responsibility of reimbursement upon Himself.
    We should not tell them that because Prophet Ibrahim during his learning process worshipped the sun, the moon, and the stars, and because Prophet Dawud commited errors in judgement, and because Prophet Lut offered his daughters to those evil sodomites out of despair because they were trying to rape his guests, and because Prophet Ayyub initially attributed the sufferings inflicted on him by satan as being from Allah - that it is ok for them to make the same errors, rather we should be explaining that they were human and that they repented to Allah and strove to do better and that Allah elevated their status for that and that people who repent and serve Allah in true sincerity and strive in His cause are favoured by Allah .
    This is the method in which we use their narrations as lessons and not by deceiving ourselves and by teaching our children to deceive themselves - the reason why people left christianity and became atheists is because they got waried by so many contradictions and were told to unquestioningly accept glaring inconsistencies between the truth and what their scholars were telling them - let us not fall into the same hole of the dhabb.

    And if anyone offers us a dubious hadith about shaytan stealing pocketfuls of food and Abu hurayrah let him go three times, we should not let it pass as an example but rather question the authenticity of the hadith and go on to explain as we would to our own children that if they are in a position of trust -they should learn to respect and uphold that trust, and that they cannot use the example from the claim that abu hurayrah let a thief go three times - to fall short of their responsibilities.
    And if there are multiple evidences pointing to the possible hypocrisy of any companion - since everyone who saw the Prophet and took shahadah was considered a sahaabah despite the fact that there were multiple hypocrites around him and also those who operated in groups and behind the scenes, then we should raise that possibility on a side note so that we can get a clearer picture of what might also have been happening, this is the method in which humans picture things together and learn lessons from narrations of events, the mosque of diraar is an example of sahaabah who were hypocrites and this helps us to understand things in context - and protects us from falling prey to emotional folly. To claim that the masjid diraar people shouldn't be mentioned because they were "sahaabah" is folly. The sahaabah were human, and we should be using the texts to understand them and follow their good examples and not to follow their bad examples.


    Quote Originally Posted by AabiruSabeel View Post
    Those are the ones whom Allah has guided, so from their guidance take an example. [6:90]
    Yes, from their guidance take an example, and if their mistakes are narrated by Allah himself and someone mentions them, try not to get defensive and pretend that it's a lie so that people don't end up getting confused, rather use it as an opportunity to prove that Allah turns in mercy to those who walk aright despite their past flaws, and that nobody is beyond flaws, and that nobody must to remain flawed with the excuse that "those were prophets and companions and we can't be saints like them".
    Keep it real.

    Quote Originally Posted by AabiruSabeel View Post
    You are not understanding the point properly. In terms of matters related to the Deen of Islam, do you need anything other than the Qur'an and Sunnah?
    The deen of Islam is the complete way of living one's life in submission to Allah , doing good, and avoiding evil - so that we can live a goodly life and make a high profit on the scales on the day of judgement and get into paradise, i'm sure there are many people in the past who never had access to the divine books but were haneef through pondering on creation, and did their best to make the best choices in life and to avoid commiting greed and injustice - and that they struggled very hard and wished they had guidance on how to walk the straightest path, and that each soul will be rewarded by Allah according to its endeavours.
    With Islaam being a complete way of life, it is useful to delve into history, and to learn to make door handles, and to learn about bacteria, and how to speak different languages, and to understand different languages for the purpose of study, business, and communication - it is not a brand but an attitude of submission and obedience to Allah and anybody who knows that -knows that the more knowledge that is gained, the easier it is to make the correct choices. Past stock market readings and knowledge of choices and gains and fails only makes a better investor if the present state is evaluated well - and the one who has the most knowledge and makes the best choices makes the highest profits on the scales - in terms of prudence, communication, and dawah, and in terms of eternal rewards.

    Not everyone does it, but those who do often learn to sift, to become aware of possible plots and stumblingblocks, to increase in guidance, and to become more skilled in the brain department.


    Quote Originally Posted by AabiruSabeel View Post
    Who needs to study Bible to understand Islam?

    A bit like asking - "who needs to understand the historical context of circumstances of revelations and abrogations when the rulings of the Quran are there?" Well, those who feel the need to gain a deeper understanding of what it all means.
    Not all people are mute followers - some are curious seekers, some know more, some know less. Not all people simply say that a printer is for printing so just press print, some want to know the history of how they actually developed and work.

    when one wonders why Allah goes back and forth in rulings, makes abrogations, adds a jot here and a jot there, one finds it easy when he/she realises that this has been the sunnah of Allah in times past, and that the sending of updated guidance in stages is for the benefit of the people in the situation, and for those who learn the guidance after them.

    Laqad kaana fee qasasihim ibratan li ul il albaab.

    Quote Originally Posted by AabiruSabeel View Post
    Did not Allah say,
    This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion. [5:3]
    Alhamdulillah

    Quote Originally Posted by AabiruSabeel View Post
    If anyone believes that Qur'an needs Bible or any other previous scripture as supplement to complete the message of Islam, then he has actually committed kufr and must repent.
    God knows where you got that one from bro it really depends on how one defines the term "need", some believe they don't need to read the Quran in their own language, others believe they don't need to learn Arabic, some believe they don't need to become scholars of ahadith and fiqh and qiraat to be Muslim, others believe they don't need to be a haafidh of Quran to be Muslim, others believe they don't need to read tirmidhi and bayhaaqi and ad infinitum to be a Muslim, others believe they don't need to know shakespeare to be a good reader, others believe they don't need to be a historian to know what happened yesterday, others believe they don't need to be an architect to know how the wtc7 collapsed, others believe they don't need to be a nutritionist to know how to make a salad, others believe they don't even need to know how to read and write in order to be a good Muslim - but it all depends really on how curious and zealous a person actually is.

    Quote Originally Posted by AabiruSabeel View Post
    Regarding the stories of the Prophets, Allah says,
    There was certainly in their stories a lesson for those of understanding. Never was the Qur'an a narration invented, but a confirmation of what was before it and a detailed explanation of all things and guidance and mercy for a people who believe. [12:111]
    It is not a mistake by Allah when He makes such a generalisation, rather an overall statement about the fact that it guides to all truth, i'm certain you're not one of the Quran only and no hadith or fiqh or maths dudes c'mon you're a computer whiz - you studied the stuff somewhere besides the Quran.

    Quote Originally Posted by AabiruSabeel View Post
    The bits and details found in Bible regarding previous Prophets and Messengers are non-essential details, which is why Allah did not include them in the Qur'an.
    Again - depends on how curious a person is.


    Quote Originally Posted by AabiruSabeel View Post
    We can neither confirm the authenticity of those details, not can we deny them, because the prophet said,
    Do not ask them about anything, lest they tell you something true and you disbelieve it, or they tell you something false and you believe it. [Ahmad]
    He is reported to have said that angrily to Umar who was reading something dubious to him, 'Umar may even have been contradicting something he had taught them as was his nature - which the Prophet usually saw as a useful angle,
    he asked them about their fast on Ashura and advised his followers to also fast on the grounds that the Muslims had more right to Musa than those who were now rejecting the messenger amongst them on the grounds that Musa was enough for them, he used to get them to read to him but mistrusted them when they were caught hiding and skipping text by Abdullah ibn salaalm , he then got zayd to learn the hebrew language because of their habit of concealing the facts.
    Anyways, there's a later statement about israiliyaat which totally abrogates that out of context statement.

    It's wise to be more careful of secular userer controlled news - you might believe those wmd, islamic terrorism, and oppression of women lies, and disbelieve it when they tell you that the sky is blue due to the defenses their persistent lies raise - but if you think you can sift and sandbox intelligently - or at least learn to do so - maybe check once in a while - but they usually play with the mind like play-do since they use expensive psychologists from the advertising industry often more highly skilled in the craft of crafty babylonian freemasonry and illusion to frame their themes, content, and wording -than the clowns who edited the bible (although some of that appears very craftily done).




    Quote Originally Posted by AabiruSabeel View Post
    Whatever the Sahabah did before accepting Islam is all forgiven when they accepted Islam.
    Whatever anyone did before accepting Islam is all forgiven when they accept Islam in sincerity, and when they make hijrah sincerely for Allah , and when they get an accepted hajj.


    Quote Originally Posted by AabiruSabeel View Post
    Similarly, whatever they have done before the prohibition of alcohol cannot be considered a sin, because it wasn't even prohibited in the first place. As soon as it was declared as forbidden, they refrained from it and poured all alcohol drums on the ground.

    The drinking of alcohol - although detestable even before that (read about strong drink in the previous scripture if you like - does not make other sins lawful. The things it does to a person is a lesson to avoid it and Abu Bakr is reported to have avoided it on the grounds of protecting his honour.


    Quote Originally Posted by AabiruSabeel View Post
    When Allah Himself says about them Allah being pleased with them and they with Him. [98:8], then there is no doubt left regarding their acceptance in front of Allah.
    Allah is pleased with ALL who sincerely turn to Him and lead good lives after lives of ignorance. And He punishes any whom He pleases for their crimes regardless of if they are sahaabah or not. Rather - sahaabah were more at risk of punishment due to the effect of their actions on the messenger of Allah this can be derived from the "o consorts of the prophet - if any of you were guilty of ...." statement.

    Quote Originally Posted by AabiruSabeel View Post
    The narrations mention the incidents for teaching purpose, not for denigrating them.
    I agree wholly and unreservedly with you on this wise and truthful statement.


    Quote Originally Posted by AabiruSabeel View Post
    They are all forgiven for their mistakes and Allah is pleased with them . We hold them in high esteem. They believed in the Prophet when everyone else opposed him. They were the best students of the best teacher. Their generation was the best of all generations. They were the most civilized people who ever lived on earth.
    Some of them did, and Allah knows their inner leanings better, they are still subject to intellectual criticism for the sake of learning and not of denigrating - like the good examples of those who obeyed Allah and His messenger, and the bad example of those who ran down the hill at uhud.

    Quote Originally Posted by AabiruSabeel View Post
    Belittling the Prophets and their companions will not be tolerated here.
    I agree with you totally and believe that i have never done so - rather, someone has been reporting my posts using emotional fallacies and misconstruction of my intentions.

    Quote Originally Posted by AabiruSabeel View Post
    If anyone does that, then his Imaan is at stake. Because Allah says in Hadith Qudsi, من عادى لي وليا فقد آذنته بالحرب (Whosoever shows enmity to a wali (friend) of Mine, then I have declared war against him.) [Bukhari].

    If anyone does anything against Allah and against that which He loves, those whom He loves, and who love Him - it is necessary that they are made aware that they won't be getting off the hook easily and that without sincere repentance - they are most likely doomed in this world - and certainly doomed in eternity.



    The most widespread definition of a companion is someone who met Muhammad, believed in him and died as a Muslim. The Sunni scholar Al-Hâfidh Ibn Hajar (d.852H) said: “The most correct of what I have come across is that a Sahâbî (Companion) is one who met the Prophet Muhammad - sallallâhu ’alayhi wa sallam - whilst believing in him, and died as a Muslim. So, that includes the one who remained with him for a long or a short time, and those who narrated from him and those who did not, and those who saw him but did not sit with him and those who could not see him due to blindness".

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sahabah
    Last edited by Abz2000; 07-28-2018 at 01:37 AM.
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    How many errors in the bible?













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    Re: How many errors in the bible?

    Imam Bayhaqî:

    وَإِذَا ظَهَرَ أَنَّ حُبَّ الصَّحَابَةِ مِنَ الْإِيمَانِ فَحُبُّهُمْ أَنْ يَعْتَقِدَ فَضَائِلَهُمْ، وَيَعْتَرِفَ لَهُمْ بِهَا، وَيَعْرِفَ لِكُلِّ ذِي حَقٍّ مِنْهُمْ حَقَّهُ، وَلِكُلِّ ذِي غِنَاءٍ فِي الْإِسْلَامِ مِنْهُمْ غِنَاؤُهُ، وَلِكُلِّ ذِي مَنْزِلَةٍ عِنْدَ الرَّسُولِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ مَنْزِلَتَهُ، وَيَنْشُرَ مَحَاسِنَهُمْ، وَيَدْعُوَ بِالْخَيْرِ لَهُمْ، وَيَقْتَدِيَ بِمَا جَاءَ فِي أَبْوَابِ الدِّينِ عَنْهُمْ وَلَا يَتْبَعُ زلَّاتِهِمْ وَهَفَوَاتِهِمْ، وَلَا يَتَعَمَّدُ تَهْجِينَ أَحَدٍ مِنْهُمْ بَبَثِّ مَا لَا يَحْسُنُ عَنْهُ وَيَسْكُتَ عَمَّا لَا يَقَعُ ضَرُورَةٌ إِلَى الْخَوْضِ فِيهِ فيِما كَانَ بَيْنَهُمْ

    “And when it has become clear that the love of Sahaabah is the part of Eemaan then (it is incumbent to know that) their love is to believe in their fadhaa’il (virtues) and acknowledging them for it, and to give everyone his rights, and for each of them possessing virtue has his value in Islaam, and for every possessor of status has his position near the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu alayhi wasallam). And (it is the requisite of their love that) their good characteristics are spread and only the good is sought for them (in Du’aa), and that which was brought to the doors of the deen from them is followed and whatever faults and slips (may have occurred from them in History) are not to be followed, nor should any of them be given precedence from one’s own self, and one should remain silent without any need to get involved into what mutual fights and disagreements occurred between them.”
    [Shu’b al-Eemaan by Al-Bayhaqi (3/93)

    Imam awwaam bin hawshab ash shaybani says :

    قَالَ : " اذْكُرُوا مَحَاسِنَ أَصْحَابِ مُحَمَّدٍ عَلَيْهِ السَّلامُ تَأْتَلِفُ عَلَيْهِ الْقُلُوبُ ، وَلا تَذْكُرُوا مَسَاوِيَهُمْ ، فَتُحَرِّشُوا النَّاسَ عَلَيْهِمْ "

    Mention the good qualities (and achievements) of the Prophet's companions so the people are filled with their love and do not pin point or highlight their flaws lest people develop hatred against them
    [Ref: السنة لأبي بكر بن الخلال 828]

    Abu `Urwa al-Zubayri narrated:

    We were with Malik ibn Anas when they mentioned a certain man who would find fault with the Companions of the Messenger of Allah. When he heard this, Malik recited the verse: "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him. . ." until he reached the words "delighting the sowers - that He may enrage the disbelievers with (the sight of) them." (48:29) Then Malik said: "Whoever among the people has become one who harbors spite towards any one of the Prophet's Companions, this verse has targeted and reached him." al-Khatib mentioned it
    [al-Qurtubi in his Jami` li ahkam al-qur'an (1994 Cairo ed. 16:283-286)]

  17. #93
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    Re: How many errors in the bible?

    97. Say: Whoever is an enemy to Gabriel-for he brings down the (revelation) to thy heart by Allah's will, a confirmation of what went before, and guidance and glad tidings for those who believe,-
    98. Whoever is an enemy to Allah and His angels and His Messengers, to Gabriel and Michael,- Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith.
    99. We have sent down to thee Manifest Signs (ayat); and none reject them but those who are perverse.
    100. Is it not (the case) that every time they make a covenant, some party among them throw it aside?- Nay, Most of them are faithless.
    101. And when there came to them a Messenger from Allah, confirming what was with them, a party of the people of the Book threw away the Book of Allah behind their backs, as if (it had been something) they did not know!
    102. They followed what the satans (evil ones) gave out (falsely) against the power of Solomon: the rejecters Were, not Solomon, but the evil ones, teaching people illusions/sorcery and such things as came down at babylon to the two angels Harut and Marut. But neither of these taught anyone (Such things) without saying: "We are only for trial; so do not reject" They learned from them the means to sow discord between man and wife. But they could not thus harm anyone except by Allah's permission. And they learned what harmed them, not what profited them. And they knew that the buyers of (magic) would have no share in the happiness of the Hereafter. And vile was the price for which they did sell their souls, if they but knew!
    103. If they had kept their Faith and guarded themselves from evil, far better had been the reward from their Lord, if they but knew!
    104. O ye of Faith! Say not (to the Messenger) RAA'INAA (words of ambiguous import, our (idol) shepherd, look at us) but UNZURNAA (words of respect, make us see, show us; and hearken (to him): To those without Faith is a grievous punishment.
    105. It is never the wish of those without Faith among the People of the Book, nor of the Pagans, that anything good should come down to you from your Lord. But Allah will choose for His special Mercy whom He will - for Allah is Lord of grace abounding.
    106. None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?
    107. Knowest thou not that to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth? And besides Him ye have neither patron nor helper.
    108. Would ye question your Messenger as Moses was questioned of old? but whoever changeth from Faith to Unbelief, Hath strayed without doubt from the even way.
    109. Quite a number of the People of the Book wish they could Turn you (people) back to infidelity after ye have believed, from selfish envy, after the Truth hath become Manifest unto them: But forgive and overlook, Till Allah accomplish His purpose; for Allah Hath power over all things.
    110. And be steadfast in prayer and regular in charity: And whatever good ye send forth for your souls before you, ye shall find it with Allah. for Allah sees Well all that ye do.
    111. And they say: "None shall enter Paradise unless he be a Jew or a Christian." Those are their (vain) desires. Say: "Produce your proof if ye are truthful."
    112. Nay,-whoever submits His whole self to Allah and is a doer of good,- He will get his reward with his Lord; on such shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
    113. The Jews say: "The Christians have naught (to stand) upon; and the Christians say: "The Jews have naught (To stand) upon." Yet they (Profess to) study the Book. Like unto their word is what those say who know not; but Allah will judge between them in their quarrel on the Day of Judgment.
    114. And who is more unjust than he who forbids that in places for the worship of Allah, Allah's name should be celebrated?-whose zeal is (in fact) to ruin them? It was not fitting that such should themselves enter them except in fear. For them there is nothing but disgrace in this world, and in the world to come, an exceeding torment.

    115. To Allah belong the east and the West: Whithersoever ye turn, there is the presence of Allah. For Allah is all-Pervading, all-Knowing.

    From Quran, Chapter 2, Al Baqarah, The Heifer



    Surah 21. The Prophets
    1. Closer and closer to mankind comes their Reckoning: yet they heed not and they turn away.
    2. Never comes (aught) to them of a renewed Message from their Lord, but they listen to it as in jest,-
    3. Their hearts toying as with trifles. The wrong-doers conceal their private counsels, (saying), "Is this (one) more than a man like yourselves? Will ye go to witchcraft with your eyes open?"
    4. Say: "My Lord knoweth (every) word (spoken) in the heavens and on earth: He is the One that heareth and knoweth (all things)."
    5. "Nay," they say, "(these are) medleys of dreams! - Nay, He forged it! - Nay, He is (but) a poet! Let him then bring us a Sign like the ones that were sent to (Prophets) of old!"
    6. (As to those) before them, not one of the populations which We destroyed believed: will these believe?
    7. Before thee, also, the Messengers We sent were but men, to whom We granted inspiration: If ye realise this not, ask of those who possess the reminder.
    8. Nor did We give them bodies that ate no food, nor were they exempt from death.
    9. In the end We fulfilled to them Our Promise, and We saved them and those whom We pleased, but We destroyed those who transgressed beyond bounds.
    10. We have revealed for you (O humankind) a book in which is a Message for you: will ye not then understand?

    11. How many were the populations We utterly destroyed because of their iniquities, setting up in their places other peoples?
    12. Yet, when they felt Our Punishment (coming), behold, they (tried to) flee from it.
    13. Flee not, but return to the good things of this life which were given you, and to your homes in order that ye may be called to account.
    14. They said: "Ah! woe to us! We were indeed wrong-doers!"
    15. And that cry of theirs ceased not, till We made them as a field that is mown, as ashes silent and quenched.
    16. Not for (idle) sport did We create the heavens and the earth and all that is between!
    17. If it had been Our wish to take (just) a pastime, We should surely have taken it from the things nearest to Us, if We would do (such a thing)!
    18. Nay, We hurl the Truth against falsehood, and it knocks out its brain, and behold, falsehood doth perish! Ah! woe be to you for the (false) things ye ascribe (to Us).

    From Quran, Chapter 21, Al Anbiyaa (The Prophets)
    Last edited by Abz2000; 07-31-2018 at 12:34 AM.
    How many errors in the bible?













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    Re: How many errors in the bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Abz2000 View Post
    And if anyone offers us a dubious hadith about shaytan stealing pocketfuls of food and Abu hurayrah let him go three times, we should not let it pass as an example but rather question the authenticity of the hadith and go on to explain as we would to our own children that if they are in a position of trust -they should learn to respect and uphold that trust, and that they cannot use the example from the claim that abu hurayrah let a thief go three times - to fall short of their responsibilities.
    The Hadith of Abu Hurairah is an authentic narration. There is no doubt in it.

    Instead of doubting the integrity of Abu Hurairah , you should first try to find out the reasons as to why he did so. We are supposed to find 70 excuses for a Muslim brother, and here we have a great Sahabi of Rasulullah !

    Let's analyze the Hadith once again,

    Abu Hurairah (May Allah be pleased with him) reported:
    The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) put me in charge of charity of Ramadan (Sadaqat-ul- Fitr). Somebody came to me and began to take away some food-stuff. I caught him and said, "I must take you to the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ)." He said, "I am a needy man with a large family, and so I have a pressing need." I let him go. When I saw the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) next morning, he asked me, "O Abu Hurairah! What did your captive do last night?" I said, "O Messenger of Allah! He complained of a pressing need and a big family. I felt pity for him so I let him go."
    1. We all know that zakat and sadaqah is for the needy. When the man (shaitan in disguise) complained of poverty and need, Abu Hurairah must have thought that this person is one of those whom the charity is to be distributed.

    2. Another Islamic ruling is, if a person steals food out of extreme poverty and need, then there is no punishment on him. His hand will not be chopped off. Please see http://www.islamandquran.org/fatwas/...e-cut-off.html , it says there at point # 4,
    Nobody’s hand can be cut off if a person or his/her family for whom he/she is responsible to take care of was starving and therefore stole food.

    3. If the action of Abu Hurairah was wrong, then Rasulullah would have reprimanded him for that and would have assigned a different Sahabi as a guard for that charity. Instead, Rasulullah allowed him to continue taking charge for it and said,
    He (ﷺ) said, "He told you a lie and he will return." I was sure, according to the saying of the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) that he would return. I waited for him. He sneaked up again and began to steal food-stuff from the Sadaqah. I caught him and said; "I must take you to the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ)." He said, "Let go of me, I am a needy man. I have to bear the expenses of a big family. I will not come back." So I took pity on him and let him go. I went at dawn to the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) who asked me, "O Abu Hurairah! What did your captive do last night?" I replied, "O Messenger of Allah! He complained of a pressing want and the burden of a big family. I took pity on him and so I let him go."
    Allah had already informed Rasulullah of the complete incident of Shaitan stealing the food. Even then he allowed it because there are lessons for us to learn from the incident and there are rulings that are to be derived from this incident.
    He simply kept saying that the Shaitan has lied and that he will return again.

    One thing that we can say from this incident about Abu Hurairah was that he was soft in heart and took pity on the thief because of his poverty. He was kind-hearted and benevolent.

    He (ﷺ) said, "He told you a lie and he will return." (That man) came again to steal the food-stuff. I arrested him and said, "I must take you to the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ), and this is the last of three times. You promised that you would not come again but you did." He said, "Let go of me, I shall teach you some words with which Allah may benefit you." I asked, "What are those words?" He replied, "When you go to bed, recite Ayat-ul- Kursi (2:255) for there will be a guardian appointed over you from Allah, and Satan will not be able to approach you till morning." So I let him go.
    The Sahabah were always eager to learn more and more about Islam. When he said that he will teach something which Allah will benefit him with, Abu Hurairah did not want to let go of this opportunity.

    Up until this point, Abu Hurairah did not know that the person who was stealing the food was Shaitan. He simply thought him to be a needy Muslim and helped him as such.

    At the end of the Hadith, it says,
    The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said, "Verily, he has told you the truth though he is a liar. O Abu Hurairah! Do you know with whom you were speaking for the last three nights?" I said, "No." He (ﷺ) said, "He was Shaitan (Satan)."
    Narrated by Bukhari.


    Quote Originally Posted by Abz2000 View Post
    And if there are multiple evidences pointing to the possible hypocrisy of any companion ...
    Abu Hurairah is far from that. He was the first one to accept Islam at the hands of Tufail ibn 'Amr Dawsy . Tufail was the chief of Daws tribe. When he visited Makkah, the Quraish warned him about the Prophet and asked him to put cotton in his ears to avoid any accidental listening of Qur'an or anything from the Prophet . When Tufail entered Masjid Al-Haram, he saw the Prophet praying there and he said to himself, I am a learned poet and I can distinguish between the good and bad, so he removed the cotton and listened to the Prophet and accepted Islam. When he returned to his tribe, he first invited his family members to Islam. When they all accepted, he invited his tribesmen to Islam. He says:

    I then invited the Daws as a whole to become Muslims. They were all slow in responding, except Abu Hurayrah. He was the quickest to respond to the invitation of Islam.
    The next time I went to Makkah, Abu Hurayrah was with me.
    "What have you left behind?' the Prophet asked me.
    "Hearts with veils over them obscuring the Truth, and firm disbelief. Sin and disobedience have won over the Daws."


    The Prophet thereupon stood up, made wudu and prayed with his hands raised to the heavens. Abu Hurayrah remarked, "When I saw the Prophet like this, I was afraid that he was praying against my people and that they would be destroyed."
    But the Prophet, upon whom be peace, prayed, "O Lord, guide the Daws, guide the Daws, guide the Daws." Then he turned to me and said:
    "Go back to your people, befriend them, treat them gently and invite them to Islam."


    Once Marwan ibn al-Hakam wanted to test Abu Hurayrah's power of memory. He sat with him in one room and behind a curtain he placed a scribe, unknown to Abu Hurayrah , and ordered him to write down whatever Abu Hurayrah said. A year later, Marwan called Abu Hurayrah again and asked him to recall the same ahadith which the scribe had recorded. It was found that he had forgotten not a single word. http://islamicweb.com/history/sahaba...U_HURAYRAH.htm

    During the caliphate of 'Umar , 'Umar appointed him as governor of Bahrain. 'Umar was very scrupulous about the type of persons whom he appointed as governors. He was always concerned that his governors should live simply and frugally and not acquire much wealth even though this was through lawful means.
    In Bahrain, Abu Hurayrah became quite rich. 'Umar heard of this and recalled him to Madinah. 'Umar thought he had acquired his wealth through unlawful means and questioned him about where and how he had acquired such a fortune.
    Abu Hurayrah replied: "From breeding horses and gifts which I received." "Hand it over to the treasury of the Muslims," ordered 'Umar .Abu Hurayrah did as he was told and raised his hands to the heavens and prayed: "O Lord, forgive the Amir al-Muminin."
    Subsequently, 'Umar asked him to become governor once again but he declined. 'Umar asked him why he refused and he said: "So that my honor would not be besmirched, my wealth taken and my back beaten." And he added: "And I fear to judge without knowledge and speak without wisdom." http://islamicweb.com/history/sahaba...U_HURAYRAH.htm


    The last part clearly indicates that 'Umar was so sure of integrity of Abu Hurairah that he wanted to appoint him as governor once again.


    Now if anyone speaks against any of the Sahabah, or slanders any of them or tries to highlight any of their perceived shortcomings, he will not be allowed to post openly on this forum anymore.
    How many errors in the bible?

    تَقَـبَّـلَ اللهُ مِنَّـا وَمِنْـكُم

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    Re: How many errors in the bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by AabiruSabeel View Post
    The Hadith of Abu Hurairah is an authentic narration. There is no doubt in it.

    Instead of doubting the integrity of Abu Hurairah , you should first try to find out the reasons as to why he did so. We are supposed to find 70 excuses for a Muslim brother, and here we have a great Sahabi of Rasulullah !

    Let's analyze the Hadith once again,



    1. We all know that zakat and sadaqah is for the needy. When the man (shaitan in disguise) complained of poverty and need, Abu Hurairah must have thought that this person is one of those whom the charity is to be distributed.

    2. Another Islamic ruling is, if a person steals food out of extreme poverty and need, then there is no punishment on him. His hand will not be chopped off. Please see http://www.islamandquran.org/fatwas/...e-cut-off.html , it says there at point # 4,
    Nobody’s hand can be cut off if a person or his/her family for whom he/she is responsible to take care of was starving and therefore stole food.

    3. If the action of Abu Hurairah was wrong, then Rasulullah would have reprimanded him for that and would have assigned a different Sahabi as a guard for that charity. Instead, Rasulullah allowed him to continue taking charge for it and said,


    Allah had already informed Rasulullah of the complete incident of Shaitan stealing the food. Even then he allowed it because there are lessons for us to learn from the incident and there are rulings that are to be derived from this incident.
    He simply kept saying that the Shaitan has lied and that he will return again.

    One thing that we can say from this incident about Abu Hurairah was that he was soft in heart and took pity on the thief because of his poverty. He was kind-hearted and benevolent.



    The Sahabah were always eager to learn more and more about Islam. When he said that he will teach something which Allah will benefit him with, Abu Hurairah did not want to let go of this opportunity.

    Up until this point, Abu Hurairah did not know that the person who was stealing the food was Shaitan. He simply thought him to be a needy Muslim and helped him as such.

    At the end of the Hadith, it says,


    Narrated by Bukhari.




    Abu Hurairah is far from that. He was the first one to accept Islam at the hands of Tufail ibn 'Amr Dawsy . Tufail was the chief of Daws tribe. When he visited Makkah, the Quraish warned him about the Prophet and asked him to put cotton in his ears to avoid any accidental listening of Qur'an or anything from the Prophet . When Tufail entered Masjid Al-Haram, he saw the Prophet praying there and he said to himself, I am a learned poet and I can distinguish between the good and bad, so he removed the cotton and listened to the Prophet and accepted Islam. When he returned to his tribe, he first invited his family members to Islam. When they all accepted, he invited his tribesmen to Islam. He says:

    I then invited the Daws as a whole to become Muslims. They were all slow in responding, except Abu Hurayrah. He was the quickest to respond to the invitation of Islam.
    The next time I went to Makkah, Abu Hurayrah was with me.
    "What have you left behind?' the Prophet asked me.
    "Hearts with veils over them obscuring the Truth, and firm disbelief. Sin and disobedience have won over the Daws."


    The Prophet thereupon stood up, made wudu and prayed with his hands raised to the heavens. Abu Hurayrah remarked, "When I saw the Prophet like this, I was afraid that he was praying against my people and that they would be destroyed."
    But the Prophet, upon whom be peace, prayed, "O Lord, guide the Daws, guide the Daws, guide the Daws." Then he turned to me and said:
    "Go back to your people, befriend them, treat them gently and invite them to Islam."


    Once Marwan ibn al-Hakam wanted to test Abu Hurayrah's power of memory. He sat with him in one room and behind a curtain he placed a scribe, unknown to Abu Hurayrah , and ordered him to write down whatever Abu Hurayrah said. A year later, Marwan called Abu Hurayrah again and asked him to recall the same ahadith which the scribe had recorded. It was found that he had forgotten not a single word. http://islamicweb.com/history/sahaba...U_HURAYRAH.htm

    During the caliphate of 'Umar , 'Umar appointed him as governor of Bahrain. 'Umar was very scrupulous about the type of persons whom he appointed as governors. He was always concerned that his governors should live simply and frugally and not acquire much wealth even though this was through lawful means.
    In Bahrain, Abu Hurayrah became quite rich. 'Umar heard of this and recalled him to Madinah. 'Umar thought he had acquired his wealth through unlawful means and questioned him about where and how he had acquired such a fortune.
    Abu Hurayrah replied: "From breeding horses and gifts which I received." "Hand it over to the treasury of the Muslims," ordered 'Umar .Abu Hurayrah did as he was told and raised his hands to the heavens and prayed: "O Lord, forgive the Amir al-Muminin."
    Subsequently, 'Umar asked him to become governor once again but he declined. 'Umar asked him why he refused and he said: "So that my honor would not be besmirched, my wealth taken and my back beaten." And he added: "And I fear to judge without knowledge and speak without wisdom." http://islamicweb.com/history/sahaba...U_HURAYRAH.htm


    The last part clearly indicates that 'Umar was so sure of integrity of Abu Hurairah that he wanted to appoint him as governor once again.


    Now if anyone speaks against any of the Sahabah, or slanders any of them or tries to highlight any of their perceived shortcomings, he will not be allowed to post openly on this forum anymore.
    The whole of your post is a good clarification of what you believe to be the facts and Allah knows best, if you bothered to read my post which was deleted by moderater username eesaa the kiwi, you would have clearly seen that i had stated that it was possibly due to the level of discretion that Abu Hurayrah had, but i could not let the poster who attempted to push a false statement on the Prophets past without clarifying the facts for the sake of any reader who may read the claim which i corrected at length, my reason for mentioning Abu Hurayra's act as falling short is the same reason why i would clarify to my children how things should be done if i came across the hadith (btw, the hadith itself is questionable since shaytaan is not allowed to steal food and takes from that which is made lawful to him in partnership in disobedience to Allah with other humans, and there was absolutely no reason for a human being to steal in madinah where the Prophet had established the treasury which had resources in it and he was distributing food and clothing with a free hand - unless the person was addicted to intoxicants - which still doesn't make the action lawful or the person shaytaan), it is from the hadith itself - if attempting to use it as an argument - that i came to the possibility that the Prophet was saying that shaytaan came to Abu Hurayrah - since it is my nature to read deeply into and be critical of everything i read - and this is the reason why i am more certain of the truth of Allah than many around me who falsely assume faith to be a light and not very valuable heirloom that is basically an identity passed down through the generations not unlike other religions.

    When mentioning the need to analyse the possible hypocrisy of a companion - this is in a broad context and not at all directed specifically at Abu Hurayrah, so it would be wise to avoid attempts to misconstrue my words via false association.

    It is a good thing to prevent people who invent lies against and slander the righteous awliyaa of Allah from posting at all since this is a responsibility over which Allah is witness, i exhort myself and yourself to do that which is just in Allah's sight and in obedience and submission to Allah to the reasonable best of ability, and bear in mind when judging that Allah judges the innermost intentions of each individual with perfect accuracy.


    Asma' reported:
    The sun eclipsed during the lifetime of the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ). As I went to 'A'isha who was busy in prayer. I said: What is the matter with the people that they are praying (a special prayer)? She ('A'isha) pointed towards the sky with her head. I said: Is it (an unusual) sign? She said: Yes. The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) stood up for prayer for such a long time that I was about to faint. I caught hold of a waterskin lying by my side, and began to pour water over my head, or (began to sprinkle water) on my face. The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) then finished and the sun had brightened. The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) then addressed the people, (after) praising Allah and lauding Him, and then said: There was no such thing as I did not see earlier, but I saw it at this very place of mine. I ever saw Paradise and Hell. It was also revealed to me that you would be tried in the graves, as you would he tried something like the turmoil of the Dajjal. Asma' said: I do not know which word he actually used (qariban or mithl), and each one of you would be brought and it would be said: What is your knowledge about this man? If the person is a believer, (Asma' said: I do not know whether it was the word al-Mu'min or al-Mu'qin) he would say: He is Muhammad and he is the Messenger of Allah. He brought to us the clear signs and right guidance. So we responded and obeyed him. (He would repeat this three times), and it would be said to him: You should go to sleep. We already knew that you are a believer in him. So the pious man would go to sleep. So far as the hypocrite or sceptic is concerned (Asma' said: I do not know which word was that: al-Munafiq (hypocrite) or al-Murtab (doubtful) he would say: I do not know. I only uttered whatever I heard people say.

    حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ الْعَلاَءِ الْهَمْدَانِيُّ، حَدَّثَنَا ابْنُ نُمَيْرٍ، حَدَّثَنَا هِشَامٌ، عَنْ فَاطِمَةَ، عَنْ أَسْمَاءَ، قَالَتْ خَسَفَتِ الشَّمْسُ عَلَى عَهْدِ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَدَخَلْتُ عَلَى عَائِشَةَ وَهِيَ تُصَلِّي فَقُلْتُ مَا شَأْنُ النَّاسِ يُصَلُّونَ فَأَشَارَتْ بِرَأْسِهَا إِلَى السَّمَاءِ فَقُلْتُ آيَةٌ قَالَتْ نَعَمْ ‏.‏ فَأَطَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم الْقِيَامَ جِدًّا حَتَّى تَجَلاَّنِي الْغَشْىُ فَأَخَذْتُ قِرْبَةً مِنْ مَاءٍ إِلَى جَنْبِي فَجَعَلْتُ أَصُبُّ عَلَى رَأْسِي أَوْ عَلَى وَجْهِي مِنَ الْمَاءِ - قَالَتْ - فَانْصَرَفَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم وَقَدْ تَجَلَّتِ الشَّمْسُ فَخَطَبَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم النَّاسَ فَحَمِدَ اللَّهَ وَأَثْنَى عَلَيْهِ ثُمَّ قَالَ ‏ "‏ أَمَّا بَعْدُ مَا مِنْ شَىْءٍ لَمْ أَكُنْ رَأَيْتُهُ إِلاَّ قَدْ رَأَيْتُهُ فِي مَقَامِي هَذَا حَتَّى الْجَنَّةَ وَالنَّارَ وَإِنَّهُ قَدْ أُوحِيَ إِلَىَّ أَنَّكُمْ تُفْتَنُونَ فِي الْقُبُورِ قَرِيبًا أَوْ مِثْلَ فِتْنَةِ الْمَسِيحِ الدَّجَّالِ - لاَ أَدْرِي أَىَّ ذَلِكَ قَالَتْ أَسْمَاءُ - فَيُؤْتَى أَحَدُكُمْ فَيُقَالُ مَا عِلْمُكَ بِهَذَا الرَّجُلِ فَأَمَّا الْمُؤْمِنُ أَوِ الْمُوقِنُ - لاَ أَدْرِي أَىَّ ذَلِكَ قَالَتْ أَسْمَاءُ - فَيَقُولُ هُوَ مُحَمَّدٌ هُوَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ جَاءَنَا بِالْبَيِّنَاتِ وَالْهُدَى فَأَجَبْنَا وَأَطَعْنَا ‏.‏ ثَلاَثَ مِرَارٍ فَيُقَالُ لَهُ نَمْ قَدْ كُنَّا نَعْلَمُ إِنَّكَ لَتُؤْمِنُ بِهِ فَنَمْ صَالِحًا

    وَأَمَّا الْمُنَافِقُ أَوِ الْمُرْتَابُ - لاَ أَدْرِي أَىَّ ذَلِكَ قَالَتْ أَسْمَاءُ - فَيَقُولُ لاَ أَدْرِي سَمِعْتُ النَّاسَ يَقُولُونَ شَيْئًا فَقُلْتُ ‏"‏ ‏.‏


    Reference : Sahih Muslim 905 a
    In-book reference : Book 10, Hadith 13
    USC-MSA web (English) reference : Book 4, Hadith 1977
    (deprecated numbering scheme)

    https://sunnah.com/muslim/10
    Last edited by Abz2000; 07-31-2018 at 04:45 PM.
    How many errors in the bible?













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    AabiruSabeel's Avatar
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    Re: How many errors in the bible?

    Brother, being overly critical of Ahadith or anything related to the Deen will lead you to dismiss anything that you do not like or anything that you do not easily understand as being doubtful. You will end up rejecting anything that does not suit you. Study the Deen under the guidance of legitimate scholars. Scholars who have a continuous chain of study from the Prophet until them. Self-styled ijtihad is destructive.
    | Likes azc liked this post
    How many errors in the bible?

    تَقَـبَّـلَ اللهُ مِنَّـا وَمِنْـكُم

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    fschmidt's Avatar
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    Re: How many errors in the bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Abz2000 View Post
    Nothing other than Allah is perfect - not even ourselves - and it is not wise to reject the study of the previously revealed scriptures out of arrogant Shiqaqq - since they do contain guidance of Allah which cannot be found to such an extent in the books from the fiction section found in the bookshops, nor even in the "non-fiction" section penned by liars and other untrustworthy people.

    So it is a bit weird to find people who read fiction and highly doubtful "non-fictional" books, and watch fictional movies and highly doubtful "non-fictional" documentaries and "news" pieces - actually attempting to slander the previous scriptures despite the obvious fact that much higher wisdom is to be found in them.
    Anyone who agrees with this is welcome to join my online Old Testament readings that I have been doing for a few years now. I am not Muslim but I attend mosque regularly and I respect Islam. We have Muslims who attend these readings.

    http://www.mikraite.org/Online-Old-T...ngs-tp145.html

    - - - Updated - - -

    Actually I will respond to this thread. I have been reluctant to post in this forum because there is now too much censorship here and I believe in free speech. But the Old Testament deserves to be defended.

    Yes the Old Testament has been corrupted somewhat. The question is whether it still has value in its current form. I will argue entirely based on the Quran since this is an Islamic forum.

    Whatever corruption occurred to the Old Testament came before the Quran, so if the Quran approves of the Old Testament then that approval must still apply. So I just need to show that the Quran considers the Old Testament to be valid.

    In Quran 5:43 God says "they have the Torah in which is the decision of Allah". This makes clear that God considers the Torah (Old Testament) to be valid at the time of the Quran, containing God's decisions.

    Quran 5:48 says:

    "To each among you, We have prescribed a law and a clear way. If Allâh had willed, He would have made you one nation, but that (He) may test you in what He has given you; so compete in good deeds."

    For this competition (in good deeds) to make sense, both the Torah and the Quran must be valid at the same time, each representing a slightly different law and way.

    And finally Quran 28:49 says "Then bring a Book from Allâh, which is a better guide than these two (Torah and Quran), that I may follow it, if you are truthful." This also seems to clearly say that both are good guides.
    | Likes Abz2000 liked this post
    How many errors in the bible?


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    Abz2000's Avatar
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    Re: How many errors in the bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by AabiruSabeel View Post
    Brother, being overly critical of Ahadith or anything related to the Deen will lead you to dismiss anything that you do not like or anything that you do not easily understand as being doubtful. You will end up rejecting anything that does not suit you. Study the Deen under the guidance of legitimate scholars. Scholars who have a continuous chain of study from the Prophet until them. Self-styled ijtihad is destructive.
    akhi, please see if any recommendation is possible, any assistance would be much appreciated - and overall appreciation and praise is due to Allah

    Please read:
    Language


    I don't normally choose based on hawaa unless forced against my will (the microchip inside my head sometimes causes me to stumble) but i do study knowledge and make decisions based on what i believe to be most truthful and just - or the best option in Allah's sight within the circumstance.
    And this is the requirement placed on any individual human being in every choice in life - regardless of where he/she lives.
    If there is a genuine scholarship authority that commands the ummah on one truthful word, enforces the law of Allah in submission to Allah whilst seeking His face, and allows migration, i will migrate to it and give my pledge if able.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by fschmidt View Post
    Anyone who agrees with this is welcome to join my online Old Testament readings that I have been doing for a few years now. I am not Muslim but I attend mosque regularly and I respect Islam. We have Muslims who attend these readings.

    http://www.mikraite.org/Online-Old-T...ngs-tp145.html

    - - - Updated - - -

    Actually I will respond to this thread. I have been reluctant to post in this forum because there is now too much censorship here and I believe in free speech. But the Old Testament deserves to be defended.

    Yes the Old Testament has been corrupted somewhat. The question is whether it still has value in its current form. I will argue entirely based on the Quran since this is an Islamic forum.

    Whatever corruption occurred to the Old Testament came before the Quran, so if the Quran approves of the Old Testament then that approval must still apply. So I just need to show that the Quran considers the Old Testament to be valid.

    In Quran 5:43 God says "they have the Torah in which is the decision of Allah". This makes clear that God considers the Torah (Old Testament) to be valid at the time of the Quran, containing God's decisions.

    Quran 5:48 says:

    "To each among you, We have prescribed a law and a clear way. If Allâh had willed, He would have made you one nation, but that (He) may test you in what He has given you; so compete in good deeds."

    For this competition (in good deeds) to make sense, both the Torah and the Quran must be valid at the same time, each representing a slightly different law and way.

    And finally Quran 28:49 says "Then bring a Book from Allâh, which is a better guide than these two (Torah and Quran), that I may follow it, if you are truthful." This also seems to clearly say that both are good guides.
    The people who made the covenant at Sinai on the receiving the foundation of the Torah agreed to assist and obey the Prophets to come, but when they rebelled and vexed God's Holy Spirit - he turned to be their enemy and fought against them (refer to Isaiah 63:10 and read up on the strange incidents regarding the incidents during the treachery during the battle of the trench, the continual appearances of Gabriel as Dihya al Kalbi (envoy to the Roman emperor Caesar), and the statements of the Jews and their worship of the Torah as an idol despite their basic passive acceptance of the Prophethood of Muhammad
    - logical calculations show that the last written word takes priority over the first when it is more sensible in proper context (the final say-the final word-the final decision) - and this is the nature of humans as they progress too.
    You will also notice that the Allah gave priority to the children of Israel, but that He did tell them that they were to follow and assist "that Prophet that should come into the world" and that God would be called "the God of the whole world" and that they who obeyed Him would be His people.
    - the interview of John the baptist in the N.T, and other comments mainly found in the account of John clearly show that the people were awaiting at least "that Prophet that should come into this world" and "Messiah" - during the time of Jesus 1.0 .

    My analysis of the matter shows that the rejection of the Quran and the Bible constitute rejection of God Himself - since both are from Him and point at each other.
    What do you think is the benefit of the Bible in God's sight - if the Quran which is the final written universal Word - is rejected.




    I will check out your forum inshaAllah
    Last edited by Abz2000; 08-04-2018 at 11:39 AM.
    How many errors in the bible?













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    Re: How many errors in the bible?

    @fschmidt :

    You haven't understood the verses correctly.

    E.g. You've quoted 5:43.

    Plz see the context of this verse as well.

    ''The particular case referred to here was that of a woman belonging to a respectable family, who was found to be involved in an unlawful sexual relationship with a man. The punishment for this in the Torah was that both be stoned to death (see Deuteronomy 22: 23-4). But the Jews did not want to enforce this punishment. Hence they deliberated among themselves and decided to put the case before the Prophet (peace be on him), with the reservation that his judgement be accepted only if it was other than stoning. The Prophet (peace be on him) decided that the punishment should, in fact, be stoning. When the Jews declined to accept the judgement, the Prophet (peace be on him) asked their rabbis what punishment had been prescribed for such a case in their religion. They replied that it was to strike the culprit with lashes, to blacken the face and to make the person concerned ride on a donkey. The Prophet (peace be on him) asked them under oath if the Torah had indeed prescribed that as punishment for adultery committed by married men and women. They repeated the same false reply. However, one of them called Ibn Sawriya who, according to the Jews themselves, was the greatest living scholar of the Torah at that time, kept silent. The Prophet (peace be on him) asked him to state on oath in the name of God, Who had emancipated them from Pharaoh and had given them the Law, whether the punishment for adultery provided for in the Torah was what they had mentioned. He replied: 'Had you not put me under such a heavy oath, I would not have volunteered the correct information. The fact is that the prescribed punishment for adultery is indeed stoning, but when adultery became common among us our rulers adopted the rule that when respectable people committed adultery they were left unpunished, whereas when ordinary people were convicted they were punished by stoning. Later on when this caused resentment among the common people we altered the law of the Torah and adopted the rule that adulterers and adulteresses would be lashed, their faces would be blackened, and they would be made to ride on donkeys, seated in a backward-looking position.' This left the Jews with nothing to say and the adulterer and adulteress were, in accordance with the order of the Prophet (peace be on him), stoned to death. (Ibn Kathir, Tafsir, vol. 3, pp. 574-5 - Ed.)

    وَكَيۡفَ يُحَكِّمُوۡنَكَ وَعِنۡدَهُمُ التَّوۡرٰٮةُ فِيۡهَا حُكۡمُ اللّٰهِ ثُمَّ يَتَوَلَّوۡنَ مِنۡۢ بَعۡدِ ذٰ لِكَ​ ؕ وَمَاۤ اُولٰٓـئِكَ بِالۡمُؤۡمِنِيۡنَ‏

    (5:43) Yet how will they appoint you a judge when they have the Torah with them, wherein there is Allah's judgement - and still they turn away from it?71The fact is, they are not believers.

    71. In this verse, God unmasks completely the dishonesty of these people. It shows how these so-called religious people who had cast the spell of their religious piety and knowledge of the Scriptures over the whole of Arabia had set aside a categorical injunction of the book which they themselves recognized to be the Book of God, and which they professed to believe in. They had referred that judicial case to the Prophet (peace be on him) for his decision even though they vehemently denied his prophethood. This made it quite clear that there was nothing to which they subscribed sincerely. Their true religion consisted merely of worshipping their interests and desires. They were ready to turn their backs upon the very book which they recognized as the Book of God merely because some of its injunctions were unpalatable to them, and in such cases they did not mind approaching one whom they regarded as an imposter (may God be our refuge from such a blasphemy) in the hope that they might be able to obtain a judgement to their liking.
    http://www.islamicstudies.info/tafhe...verse=41&to=43
    How many errors in the bible?

    Allah (swt) knows best

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    Re: How many errors in the bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by azc View Post
    @fschmidt:

    You haven't understood the verses correctly.

    E.g. You've quoted 5:43.

    Plz see the context of this verse as well.
    I know the context. The details of this are from hadith, but the general point is in the Quran. The general point of the Quran stands and is in no way contradicted by the hadith. The general point is what you said, that these jews were dishonest and ignored their scripture. But associated with this is the point that their scripture in its current form is still valid if they would only follow it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Abz2000 View Post
    My analysis of the matter shows that the rejection of the Quran and the Bible constitute rejection of God Himself - since both are from Him and point at each other.
    I agree.

    What do you think is the benefit of the Bible in God's sight - if the Quran which is the final written universal Word - is rejected.
    Even some truth is better than no truth. But the best is to look for truth wherever it can be found.


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