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    Array Enochian's Avatar
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    Exclamation Did Jesus Exist? (OP)


    Remember the Gospels and Acts were composed AFTER Paul's letters.
    Gerd Lüdemann says:
    "Not once does Paul refer to Jesus as a teacher, to his words as teaching, or to [any] Christians as disciples."
    and
    "Moreover, when Paul himself summarizes the content of his missionary preaching in Corinth (1 Cor. 2.1-2; 15.3-5), there is no hint that a narration of Jesus’ earthly life or a report of his earthly teachings was an essential part of it. . . . In the letter to the Romans, which cannot presuppose the apostle’s missionary preaching and in which he attempts to summarize its main points, we find not a single direct citation of Jesus’ teaching."
    According to Richard Carrier, Paul's letters indicate that Cephas etc. only knew Jesus from DREAMS, based on the Old Testament scriptures.
    1 Cor. 15.:
    "For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep; then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles; and last of all, as to one untimely born, He appeared to me also."
    The Scriptures Paul is referring to here are:
    Septuagint version of Zechariah 3 and 6 gives the Greek name of Jesus, describing him as confronting Satan, being crowned king in heaven, called "the man named 'Rising'" who is said to rise from his place below, building up God’s house, given supreme authority over God’s domain and ending all sins in a single day.
    Daniel 9 describes a messiah dying before the end of the world.
    Isaiah 53 describes the cleansing of the world's sins by the death of a servant.
    The concept of crucifixion is from Psalm 22.16, Isaiah 53:5 and Zechariah 12:10.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Jesus is the same Rising Jesus from the LXX version of Zechariah.

    Paul only ever indicates 2 sources of Jesus info, Scripture (the LXX) and dream teachings.

    Paul never indicates Cephas or anyone else was a disciple of Jesus. Apostle doesn't mean disciple.

    Philo independently confirms Jesus is the same Jesus from the LXX version of Zechariah:
    https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/13541

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    Enochian's Avatar
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    Re: Did Jesus Exist?

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    Composed AFTER the letters of Paul, the events in the Gospels are plagiarized off the LXX.

    The sayings of Jesus in the Gospels are things Paul originally said.

    Kurt Noll says " Early post-Pauline writings transmit favourite Pauline doctrines (such as a declaration that kashrut need not be observed; Mk 7:19b), but shifted these declarations to a new authority figure, Jesus himself. "

    The Donkey(s) - Jesus riding on a donkey is from Zechariah 9.

    Mark has Jesus sit on a young donkey that he had his disciples fetch for him (Mark 11.1-10).

    Matthew changes the story so the disciples instead fetch TWO donkeys, not only the young donkey of Mark but also his mother. Jesus rides into Jerusalem on both donkeys at the same time (Matthew 21.1-9). Matthew wanted the story to better match the literal reading of Zechariah 9.9. Matthew even actually quotes part of Zech. 9.9.

    The Sermon on the Mount - Paul was the one who originally taught the concept of loving your neighbor etc. in Rom. 12.14-21; Gal. 5.14-15; 1 Thess. 5.15; and Rom. 13.9-10. Paul quotes various passages in the LXX as support.

    The Sermon of the Mount in the Gospels relies extensively on the Greek text of Deuteronomy and Leviticus especially, and in key places on other texts. For example, the section on turning the other cheek and other aspects of legal pacifism (Mt. 5.38-42) has been redacted from the Greek text of Isaiah 50.6-9.

    The clearing of the temple - The cleansing of the temple as a fictional scene has its primary inspiration from an ancient faulty translation of Zech. 14.21 which changed 'Canaanites' to 'traders'.When Jesus clears the temple he quotes Jer. 7.11 (in Mk 11.17). Jeremiah and Jesus both enter the temple (Jer. 7.1-2; Mk 11.15), make the same accusation against the corruption of the temple cult (Jeremiah quoting a revelation from the Lord, Jesus quoting Jeremiah), and predict the destruction of the temple (Jer. 7.12-14; Mk 14.57-58; 15.29).

    The Crucifixion - The whole concept of a crucifixion of God’s chosen one arranged and witnessed by Jews comes from Psalm 22.16, where ‘the synagogue of the wicked has surrounded me and pierced my hands and feet’. The casting of lots is Psalm 22.18. The people who blasphemed Jesus while shaking their heads is Psalm 22.7-8. The line ‘My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?’ is Psalm 22.1.

    The Resurrection - Jesus was known as the ‘firstfruits’ of the resurrection that would occur to all believers (1 Cor. 15.20-23). The Torah commands that the Day of Firstfruits take place the day after the first Sabbath following the Passover (Lev. 23.5, 10-11). In other words, on a Sunday. Mark has Jesus rise on Sunday, the firstftuits of the resurrected, symbolically on the very Day of Firstfruits itself.

    Barabbas - This is the Yom Kippur ceremony of Leviticus 16 and Mishnah tractate Yoma: two ‘identical’ goats were chosen each year, and one was released into the wild containing the sins of Israel (which was eventually killed by being pushed over a cliff), while the other’s blood was shed to atone for those sins. Barabbas means ‘Son of the Father’ in Aramaic, and we know Jesus was deliberately styled the ‘Son of the Father’ himself. So we have two sons of the father; one is released into the wild mob containing the sins of Israel (murder and rebellion), while the other is sacrificed so his blood may atone for the sins of Israel—the one who is released bears those sins literally; the other, figuratively. Adding weight to this conclusion is manuscript evidence that the story originally had the name ‘Jesus Barabbas’. Thus we really had two men called ‘Jesus Son of the Father’.

    Last Supper - This is derived from a LXX-based passage in Paul's letters. Paul said he received the Last Supper info directly from Jesus himself, which indicates a dream. 1 Cor. 11:23 says "For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which He was betrayed took bread." Translations often use "betrayed", but in fact the word paradidomi means simply ‘hand over, deliver’. The notion derives from Isaiah 53.12, which in the Septuagint uses exactly the same word of the servant offered up to atone for everyone’s sins. Paul is adapting the Passover meal. Exodus 12.7-14 is much of the basis of Paul’s Eucharist account: the element of it all occurring ‘in the night’ (vv. 8, 12, using the same phrase in the Septuagint, en te nukti, that Paul employs), a ritual of ‘remembrance’ securing the performer’s salvation (vv. 13-14), the role of blood and flesh (including the staining of a cross with blood, an ancient door lintel forming a double cross), the breaking of bread, and the death of the firstborn—only Jesus reverses this last element: instead of the ritual saving its performers from the death of their firstborn, the death of God’s firstborn saves its performers from their own death. Jesus is thus imagined here as creating a new Passover ritual to replace the old one, which accomplishes for Christians what the Passover ritual accomplished for the Jews. There are connections with Psalm 119, where God’s ‘servant’ will remember God and his laws ‘in the night’ (119.49-56) as the wicked abuse him. The Gospels take Paul's wording and insert disciples of Jesus.

    Miracles - Just like everything else in the Gospels, miracles are plagiarized off the LXX.

    Here is just one example:

    It happened after this . . . (Kings 17.17)

    It happened afterwards . . . (Luke 7.11)

    At the gate of Sarepta, Elijah meets a widow (Kings 17.10).

    At the gate of Nain, Jesus meets a widow (Luke 7.11-12).

    Another widow’s son was dead (Kings 17.17).

    This widow’s son was dead (Luke 7.12).

    That widow expresses a sense of her unworthiness on account of sin (Kings 17.18).

    A centurion (whose ‘boy’ Jesus had just saved from death) had just expressed a sense of his unworthiness on account of sin (Luke 7.6).

    Elijah compassionately bears her son up the stairs and asks ‘the Lord’ why he was allowed to die (Kings 17.13-14).

    ‘The Lord’ feels compassion for her and touches her son’s bier, and the bearers stand still (Luke 7.13-14).

    Elijah prays to the Lord for the son’s return to life (Kings 17.21).

    ‘The Lord’ commands the boy to rise (Luke 7.14).

    The boy comes to life and cries out (Kings 17.22).

    ‘And he who was dead sat up and began to speak’ (Luke 7.15).

    ‘And he gave him to his mother’, kai edōken auton tē mētri autou (Kings 17.23).

    ‘And he gave him to his mother’, kai edōken auton tē mētri autou (Luke 7.15).

    The widow recognizes Elijah is a man of God and that ‘the word’ he speaks is the truth (Kings 17.24).

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    Insaanah's Avatar
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    Re: Did Jesus Exist?

    To us, your arguments about the authenticity of the current day gospels are irrelevant. They (your arguments) really make no difference to us. If you strongly believe the gospels aren’t true, then go and convince Christians. You’re wasting your time here, and ours. Our scripture is the Quran, revealed to prophet Muhammad peace be upon him, by the God of Abraham peace be upon him, who is the God of Moses peace be upon him, who is the God of Jesus peace be upon him, who is the God of Muhammad peace be upon him, indeed the God of us all.

    We believe that a scripture called the Injeel was given to Jesus peace be upon him by God. We haven’t seen what that original scripture looked like, but it is one of our articles of faith to believe in it. It’s possible the current day gospels may contain fragments of the revelation that was in the injeel, as brother eesa the kiwi mentioned.

    The message of God has been the same since the beginning of time, so it is not surprising if there are similarities to the Quran in some places in the current day gospels and differences in others where man made ideas have been introduced into the gospels.

    The main point is, the Quran is here, here and now. The original, true, and unadulterated message of God, unchanged and untampered with by man. 100% God's word. No versions. No editions. No human authors. Free from any human interference. The message of God to all mankind, in it's final, unadulterated and pristine form. Thus it supersedes the previous scriptures, while being a continuation, confirmation and culmination of the original message contained within them, in its last and final form.

    It is a book that tells us what has always been expected from humans since the beginning of time; what God told His prophets to teach people since the creation of the first human. That core message never changed. The essence of Islam is what always was, and has always been, the true and natural religion; the way of all the Prophets, the original message, the only message. The message was: to submit wholeheartedly to the will of God and to worship Him and Him alone, without any associates in, or parts to, His Exclusive Divinity, and to obey the prophet.

    Thus, Islam is not a new faith, but is the same Ultimate Truth that God revealed to all prophets, including Noah, Abraham, Moses and Jesus (peace be upon them all). Thus Islam is not named after a specific person (like Christianity, Buddhism), nor after a certain race or place (like Judaism, Hinduism), but is named by God Himself, the meaning loosely translating as 'submission to God', which is what every Prophet and their righteous followers did, from amongst all times, places and peoples. That in itself is one fraction of the evidence that it was the way of all the Prophets from the beginning. Since the time of prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) that message is available unchanged and unadulterated. He is the last, not first, prophet of Islam; a messenger to all mankind.

    Now that this information has been given to you including by other brothers and sisters on this thread, what are you going to do about it? I invite you to come to and believe in and embrace that truth. Will you do it?
    Did Jesus Exist?


    Stunningly beautiful adhaan from the Dome of the Rock in Masjid ul Aqsa
    Download (right click and choose "save target/link as").


    This is a clear message for mankind in order that they may be warned thereby, and that they may know that He is only One God, and that those of understanding may take heed (14:52)


    Indeed Allah knows, and you know not (16: 74, part)

  5. #43
    Enochian's Avatar
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    Re: Did Jesus Exist?

    You are just saying a bunch of things that are objectively not true.

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    Enochian's Avatar
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    Re: Did Jesus Exist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Insaanah View Post
    Thus, Islam is not a new faith, but is the same Ultimate Truth that God revealed to all prophets, including Noah, Abraham, Moses and Jesus (peace be upon them all).
    Jesus is not a prophet.

    Jesus is the same Rising Jesus from the LXX version of Zechariah.

    I understand scholars like Bart Ehrman, Mark Goodacre etc. say Jesus existed.

    But thats based on misreading what Paul says.

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    Eric H's Avatar
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    Re: Did Jesus Exist?

    Greetings and peace be with you Enochian;

    The sayings of Jesus in the Gospels are things Paul originally said.
    What you say has little bearing on what Muslims believe. I have to say you don't seem to make much sense to Christians either. Chronologically, Jesus came before Paul in the Bible, so you make no sense at all saying that Jesus followed Paul's teachings; it is clearly the other way round.

    I am struggling to understand your motivation to post on an Islamic forum, if you are enquiring about Islam, then try asking questions about Islam.

    In the spirit of searching for God,

    Eric
    Did Jesus Exist?

    You will never look into the eyes of anyone who does not matter to God.

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    Enochian's Avatar
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    Re: Did Jesus Exist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric H View Post
    Greetings and peace be with you Enochian;



    What you say has little bearing on what Muslims believe. I have to say you don't seem to make much sense to Christians either. Chronologically, Jesus came before Paul in the Bible, so you make no sense at all saying that Jesus followed Paul's teachings; it is clearly the other way round.

    I am struggling to understand your motivation to post on an Islamic forum, if you are enquiring about Islam, then try asking questions about Islam.

    In the spirit of searching for God,

    Eric

    Smart Christians know the Gospels were composed after the letters of Paul.

    Its a basic academic fact.

    Encyclopedia Britannica:

    "The books are not arranged chronologically in the New Testament. The Epistles of Paul, for example, which address the immediate problems of local churches shortly after Christ’s death, are considered to be the earliest texts."

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    Saira Khan's Avatar
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    Re: Did Jesus Exist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric H View Post
    Chronologically, Jesus came before Paul in the Bible, so you make no sense at all saying that Jesus followed Paul's teachings; it is clearly the other way round.

    I am struggling to understand your motivation to post on an Islamic forum
    You are very right. I have explained this to her earlier but my words fell on deaf ears lol.
    | Likes Eric H liked this post

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    Saira Khan's Avatar
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    Re: Did Jesus Exist?

    And (remember) when God will say (on the Day of Resurrection): "O Jesus, son of Mary! Did you say unto men: ‘Take me and my mother as deities beside God?’" He will say: "Glory be to You! It was not for me to say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would surely have known it. You know what is in my inner-self though I do not know what is in Yours; truly, You, only You, are the All-Knower of all that is hidden. Never did I say to them except what You commanded me - worship God, my Lord and your Lord. And I was a witness over them while I dwelt amongst them, but when You took me up, You were the Watcher over them; and You are a Witness to all things.
    (Quran 5:116-117)

    "...the Father is greater than I." (John 14:28)
    "When you pray, say Our Father which art in heaven." (Luke 11:2)"…
    The son of man did not come to be served, but to serve." (Matthew 20:28)
    "The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus." (Acts 3:13)
    "Men of Israel, listen to this, Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through Him, as you yourselves know." (Peter, the Apostle. Acts 2:22).
    This is what the Christians and Muslims believe in, the rest are not Christians but actually "Paulian" in true sense defying the teachings of Jesus.

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    Enochian's Avatar
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    Re: Did Jesus Exist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Saira Khan View Post
    And (remember) when God will say (on the Day of Resurrection): "O Jesus, son of Mary! Did you say unto men: ‘Take me and my mother as deities beside God?’" He will say: "Glory be to You! It was not for me to say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would surely have known it. You know what is in my inner-self though I do not know what is in Yours; truly, You, only You, are the All-Knower of all that is hidden. Never did I say to them except what You commanded me - worship God, my Lord and your Lord. And I was a witness over them while I dwelt amongst them, but when You took me up, You were the Watcher over them; and You are a Witness to all things.
    (Quran 5:116-117)

    "...the Father is greater than I." (John 14:28)
    "When you pray, say Our Father which art in heaven." (Luke 11:2)"…
    The son of man did not come to be served, but to serve." (Matthew 20:28)
    "The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus." (Acts 3:13)
    "Men of Israel, listen to this, Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through Him, as you yourselves know." (Peter, the Apostle. Acts 2:22).
    This is what the Christians and Muslims believe in, the rest are not Christians but actually "Paulian" in true sense defying the teachings of Jesus.

    Do you understand the Gospels are based on Paul's letters?

    Paul never taught Jesus was God.

    God handed over all his duties and powers to Jesus, an adopted created being.

    Jesus is the power of God and the wisdom of God, but not himself God (1 Cor. 1.24), only the image of God (literally, ‘God’s icon’, 2 Cor. 4.4; though compare 1 Cor. 11.7, where the same is said of ordinary men, but there only through their unity with Christ); he was made by God (1 Cor. 1.30). He sits at the right hand of God and pleads with God on our behalf (Rom. 8.34). All things were made by God, but through the agency of Christ (1 Cor. 8.4-6). Christ is given the form of a god, but refuses to seize that opportunity to make himself equal to God, but submits to incarnation and death instead, for which obedience God grants him supreme authority (Phil. 2.5-11). And Christ will in the end deliver the kingdom to God, who only gave Christ the authority to rule and wage war on God’s behalf; and in the end Christ will give that authority back to God (1 Cor. 15.24-28).

    Thus in our earliest sources Jesus was always distinguished as a different entity from God, and as his subordinate. Even in Colossians he is the image of God, not God himself; in fact, he is ‘the firstborn of all creation’ (and thus a created being), and ‘God dwelled within him’, in the same sense as was imagined for Jewish prophets, priests and kings (Col. 1.15-19). Thus in Rom. 1.4 (and all of Hebrews 1) Jesus is only appointed the ‘Son of God’. This was precisely how the phrase ‘Son of God’ and the concepts of divine ‘incarnation’ and ‘indwelling’ were then understood by the Jews. This was therefore not a radical idea but entirely in accord with popular Jewish theology. This would still make Jesus a god in common pagan parlance, but not in the usual vocabulary of Jews, who would sooner call such a divine being an archangel or celestial ‘lord'.

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    Ümit's Avatar
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    Re: Did Jesus Exist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Enochian View Post
    You are just saying a bunch of things that are objectively not true.
    Look, let me explain this all works since the beginning of creation:

    Allah (God), The one and only...created Adam and Eva. Adam as was the very first Prophet. All Prophets have "Direct" connection with Allah. "Direct" means that Angel Gabriel always had the task to deliver Divine messages to the prophets.
    So every prophet on earth received these divine messages through angel Gabriel and spreaded among the people. Adam as did that. But after a couple of generations later, people started to add innovations to this original message and slowly a new man made religion is born. So, a second prophet comes to continue Adam as work on earth. He also delivers the original message through angel Gabriel and perhaps a couple more rules because the human kind has been developing and discovering in the mean time.
    for example, in Adams time people did not discover alcohol yet...or homosexuality or whatever...so these rules came later on.

    This means by doing that, adams as rules are overwritten and updated by these newer rules. a couple of generations after death of the second prophet, people start to wander off again, started adding innovations and voila...a third religion is born...Perhaps even a mix with the remains of the other man made religion....

    In short, every prophet comes with the same ground message + additional and updated rules and overwrites the rules of the past messages...everytime humand wandered off and created a new man made religion.

    That is the main reason that almost all religions are the same in the basic message.

    Prophets like Adam as, Jacob as, jonas as, Ismael as, Isaak as, Solomon as, Abraham as, Lot as, Noah as, Moses as, Jesus as, Dawood as, Zacharias as, all were prophets send by the same one and only God to deliver the same basic message.
    So Moses as came along and delivered us the Thorah...The Thorah got completely destroyed at the time and everything got lost...People reconctructed it again as good as possible from memory...but it wasn't the original message anymore...and again started to wander off again in the meantime...and Judaism was born...

    So Jesus as came along and brought us the Injeel which is compaired to the Thorah, the same basic message...People again altered it and voila, Christianity was born.

    And now, for the last time, one final prohet has come to us, which is Muhammed as, and brought us the Quraan...and finally this time we managed to preserve the original message in its purest form until this day.

    That is why the Quraan, the Bible and Thorah have so many similarities...it looks like bad copies from each other...but they really are not. they just have the same origin.

    That is also why we do not have any interest in what Paul, mattheus or who ever has written...because they were not even prophets. At best we can say that the writings of the Discipels of Jesus can be seen as an extra information about Jesus as...kinda like "Hadeeths of Jesus as" but again, it is not 100% correct.

    The biggest failure of the Christians was to make Jesus as a God. a direct outcome of this failure is then that the ordinairy human disciples of of Jesus as suddenly become prophets because they had direct communication with the man made God, Jesus as, and everything they write becomes a part of the revelations and automatically a part of the Bible as we know today.

    And again....all contradictions between LLX and Gospels and OT and NT or whatever...none of them are interesting to Muslims anymore. The final message is the Quraan...in original form and language, free accessible to all mankind...free to translate it if you need to study it...you don't need to meet come conditions to accept it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Oh and Jesus as never got crucified, hanged or killed otherwise. Allah just took him away at the moment he got betrayed and they came to arrest him. Judas' appearance changed to resemble Jesus as and he mistakenly got arrested and killed instead.
    After one of several days Jesus as did re-appear to the people to deliver his final messages and disappeared again.

    Where he is now, no one knows exactly...but is still alive...he will come back one day, fight and siege the Dajjal (antichrist for the Christians), die like every other living creature, and after that the day of judgement will come.

  15. #51
    eesa the kiwi's Avatar
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    Re: Did Jesus Exist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Enochian View Post
    You are just saying a bunch of things that are objectively not true.
    You know for an agnostic you seem pretty certain which is I ronic considering
    considering your entire religion is based on "I dont know"

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Insaanah View Post
    To us, your arguments about the authenticity of the current day gospels are irrelevant. They (your arguments) really make no difference to us. If you strongly believe the gospels aren’t true, then go and convince Christians. You’re wasting your time here, and ours. Our scripture is the Quran, revealed to prophet Muhammad peace be upon him, by the God of Abraham peace be upon him, who is the God of Moses peace be upon him, who is the God of Jesus peace be upon him, who is the God of Muhammad peace be upon him, indeed the God of us all.

    We believe that a scripture called the Injeel was given to Jesus peace be upon him by God. We haven’t seen what that original scripture looked like, but it is one of our articles of faith to believe in it. It’s possible the current day gospels may contain fragments of the revelation that was in the injeel, as brother eesa the kiwi mentioned.

    The message of God has been the same since the beginning of time, so it is not surprising if there are similarities to the Quran in some places in the current day gospels and differences in others where man made ideas have been introduced into the gospels.

    The main point is, the Quran is here, here and now. The original, true, and unadulterated message of God, unchanged and untampered with by man. 100% God's word. No versions. No editions. No human authors. Free from any human interference. The message of God to all mankind, in it's final, unadulterated and pristine form. Thus it supersedes the previous scriptures, while being a continuation, confirmation and culmination of the original message contained within them, in its last and final form.

    It is a book that tells us what has always been expected from humans since the beginning of time; what God told His prophets to teach people since the creation of the first human. That core message never changed. The essence of Islam is what always was, and has always been, the true and natural religion; the way of all the Prophets, the original message, the only message. The message was: to submit wholeheartedly to the will of God and to worship Him and Him alone, without any associates in, or parts to, His Exclusive Divinity, and to obey the prophet.

    Thus, Islam is not a new faith, but is the same Ultimate Truth that God revealed to all prophets, including Noah, Abraham, Moses and Jesus (peace be upon them all). Thus Islam is not named after a specific person (like Christianity, Buddhism), nor after a certain race or place (like Judaism, Hinduism), but is named by God Himself, the meaning loosely translating as 'submission to God', which is what every Prophet and their righteous followers did, from amongst all times, places and peoples. That in itself is one fraction of the evidence that it was the way of all the Prophets from the beginning. Since the time of prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) that message is available unchanged and unadulterated. He is the last, not first, prophet of Islam; a messenger to all mankind.

    Now that this information has been given to you including by other brothers and sisters on this thread, what are you going to do about it? I invite you to come to and believe in and embrace that truth. Will you do it?
    Jazak Allah khair sister

    OP seems to have reading comprehension issues. Multiple well explained arguments have been presented but they are dismissed with one sentence answers that adress none of the points

    Thread closed until OP can learn to discuss intelligently like an adult
    Did Jesus Exist?

    Imagine sleeping without praying isha and then waking up in your grave- bilal Phillips


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