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  1. #1
    Array Eddy's Avatar
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    Fight only those who fight you (OP)


    Firstly, in Islam, we only ever fight (and as a last resort) to ultimately obtain peace. I think that’s the obvious argument that everyone makes.
    That is what a Muslim said on a thread called "Saying "Islām Is A Religion of Peace"...?"


    I wasn't allowed to respond to it because I'm not a Muslim so I had to open this thread.

    Anti muslim apologists are quick to bring up Quran 9:29 to defeat that line of thinking.

    SAHIH INTERNATIONAL

    Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.

    I am not that quick to make cheap accusations, I like to make my own little research before saying anything.
    I have to admit, the (anti) muslim apologists are not that wrong after all.

    I missed the word in parenthesis in the original post. At that time the Forum didn't give me the option to edit the text.
    Last edited by Eddy; 08-13-2020 at 04:19 AM. Reason: missing word

  2. #101
    Eric H's Avatar
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    Re: Fight only those who fight you

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    Greetings and peace be with you Eddy,

    Quote Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
    Perhaps you should pay attention and realize I'm here talking about Islam.
    Understood

    Quote Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
    Muslims keep asking me about Christianity and I don't have a problem answering.
    And the reason they asked you about Christianity; is because you put Christian down as your religion; then you later claim you are agnostic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
    All your explanations seem to be your own conclusions based on history common trends and your own logic but zero concrete evidence that what the Quran claims comes close to historical facts.
    If you are going to read parts of the Quran, then search for a greatest good meaning. No one would follow Islam if they saw it as you do. These scriptures have inspired a billion plus followers; there has to be something you are missing.

    In the spirit of searching for God,

    Eric
    | Likes Grandad liked this post
    Fight only those who fight you

    You will never look into the eyes of anyone who does not matter to God.

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  4. #102
    Eddy's Avatar
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    Re: Fight only those who fight you

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric H View Post
    If you are going to read parts of the Quran, then search for a greatest good meaning. No one would follow Islam if they saw it as you do.
    What happens when you realize the Tooth Fairy and Santa Claus are not real?
    Don't you want to know the truth?
    What happens when you realize the God of Christianity and Islam might not be there?
    Don't you want to know the truth?

  5. #103
    Eric H's Avatar
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    Re: Fight only those who fight you

    Greetings and peace be with you Eddy;

    Quote Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
    Don't you want to know the truth?
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
    What happens when you realize the God of Christianity and Islam might not be there?
    The creation of the universe is history, and you can't change history. God the creator of all that is seen and unseen either exists fully and totally, or there is no god. There cannot be a maybe or probable god. I have total faith that God the Creator exists fully and totally.

    I started a thread a while ago asking how could the universe and life start without God? How could life evolve without God? Any thoughts?

    How could the universe and life start without God, how did life evolve without God?

    In the spirit of searching for God;
    Eric
    Fight only those who fight you

    You will never look into the eyes of anyone who does not matter to God.

  6. #104
    Eddy's Avatar
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    Re: Fight only those who fight you

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric H View Post
    The creation of the universe is history, and you can't change history.
    True


    Quote Originally Posted by Eric H View Post
    God the creator of all that is seen and unseen either exists fully and totally, or there is no god.
    That is your speculation, I wouldn't be so sure to speak of something I know nothing about.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric H View Post
    There cannot be a maybe or probable god. I have total faith that God the Creator exists fully and totally.
    You do have total faith, but faith is just faith, it doesn't matter if it is weak or strong it is still just faith at the end.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric H View Post
    I started a thread a while ago asking how could the universe and life start without God? How could life evolve without God? Any thoughts?
    Should I speculate to sound knowledgeable or just tell the truth and say "I don't know"?
    One thing is for sure, life has evolved without the help of any God for thousands of years.
    What we don't know is how did it all started.

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    Eric H's Avatar
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    Re: Fight only those who fight you

    Greetings and peace be with you Eddy;

    Quote Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
    Should I speculate to sound knowledgeable or just tell the truth and say "I don't know"?
    Science is not able to say how the universe came to be; or how life started on Earth. As you say; the best answer is we don't know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
    One thing is for sure, life has evolved without the help of any God for thousands of years.
    I can't believe this is true, but if you have compelling evidence, then let's hear it.

    In the spirit of searching for God;
    Eric
    Fight only those who fight you

    You will never look into the eyes of anyone who does not matter to God.

  9. #106
    Eddy's Avatar
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    Re: Fight only those who fight you

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric H View Post
    I can't believe this is true, but if you have compelling evidence, then let's hear it.
    That has a very easy answer, evolution.
    We don't know how all started, we only have some good theories which could explain things but not 100%.
    But once things got started we have a pretty good idea how thing evolved.
    We'll never get proof of everything, that's a fact for now.
    Nature can show us at any minute that has the power to create new beings and species without any help from God.
    Leave a peach to rotten and all of a sudden you get newly born worms and flies.
    These newly formed beings are so sophisticated that we "humans" with all our new technology cannot come close to clone.
    They seem like little miracles but they were created from a totally natural process that science can easily explain.
    No need for God.
    At a bigger scale you can project and realize that nature is a really powerful thing.
    The fact that we don't quite understand it doesn't mean a God had to be involved in the process.
    That is just a cop out when something cannot be explained.
    I a few words:
    Things don't happen by acts of magic but by natural evolution and following natural processes that we don't always understand and that we cannot always prove scientifically.

  10. #107
    Eric H's Avatar
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    Re: Fight only those who fight you

    Greetings and peace be with you Eddy;

    Quote Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
    Nature can show us at any minute that has the power to create new beings and species without any help from God.
    Leave a peach to rotten and all of a sudden you get newly born worms and flies.
    With all due respect, this explains nothing, worms and flies lay eggs in rotten fruit, then babies are born.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
    The fact that we don't quite understand it doesn't mean a God had to be involved in the process.
    Three billion years ago, there was just single cell life. Evolution cannot explain how the eye and the skeletal system came to be purely by natural causes.

    In the spirit of searching for God,

    Eric
    Fight only those who fight you

    You will never look into the eyes of anyone who does not matter to God.

  11. #108
    Eddy's Avatar
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    Re: Fight only those who fight you

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric H View Post
    Three billion years ago, there was just single cell life. Evolution cannot explain how the eye and the skeletal system came to be purely by natural causes.
    Evolution could explain it if "evolution" could speak for itself, unfortunately is us humans who cannot explain how the eye and the skeletal system came to be from natural processes.
    Don't blame evolution's lack of communication skills for our ignorance.
    You can go back step by step from the present to the past and everything can be explained very neatly but as soon as you reach a point (in this case three billion years) when your ignorance block you from the truth and then you hit the panic button and scream "there's no way" this couldn't be done by nature itself.
    How illogical is that?
    That's where religion comes in handy.
    How can I blame you?
    God has all the answers you're incapable of finding by yourself.
    It's human nature.
    You're not alone.

  12. #109
    Eric H's Avatar
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    Re: Fight only those who fight you

    Greetings and peace be with you Eddy,

    Quote Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
    unfortunately is us humans who cannot explain how the eye and the skeletal system came to be from natural processes.
    Again, we don't know - you don't know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
    You can go back step by step from the present to the past and everything can be explained very neatly but as soon as you reach a point (in this case three billion years)
    If you think you can go back step by step to three billion years ago, then you would be able to explain how the eye and the skeletal system evolved - but you can't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
    God has all the answers you're incapable of finding by yourself
    I rely on science, and science does not have convincing evidence of how the universe and life happened by natural causes. Science has no convincing evidence for the evolution of the eye and the skeletal system.

    That leaves faith and trust in God, that is all we need.

    In the spirit of searching for God,
    Eric
    Fight only those who fight you

    You will never look into the eyes of anyone who does not matter to God.

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    Eddy's Avatar
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    Re: Fight only those who fight you

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric H View Post
    I rely on science, and science does not have convincing evidence of how the universe and life happened by natural causes. Science has no convincing evidence for the evolution of the eye and the skeletal system.

    That leaves faith and trust in God, that is all we need.
    True, there's no conclusive evidence but there are theories that are very credible and logical about both: the eye and skeletal system.
    Those theories are a lot more convincing than the leap of faith needed to believe in the existence of a creator

    So you said you rely on science.
    And you said "science does not have convincing evidence of how the universe and life happened by natural causes."
    So that turns you into believing in God.

    Since you rely on science:
    Does science have convincing evidence of how the universe and life happened by means of a creator?
    Are you aware of the double standards in your thinking?

  15. #111
    Eric H's Avatar
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    Re: Fight only those who fight you

    Greetings and peace be with you Eddy

    Quote Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
    True, there's no conclusive evidence but there are theories that are very credible and logical about both: the eye and skeletal system.
    When you don't have conclusive evidence, you need faith to believe something is true. So all you have is faith in a theory, nothing more.

    In the spirit of searching for God,
    Eric
    Fight only those who fight you

    You will never look into the eyes of anyone who does not matter to God.


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