The authorship of The book of revelation/ The apocalypse of John / Anonymous

**brucewayne995** · 09-26-2021

bismillah.gif

In this thread, i would like to discuss that the authorship for the "Book of revelation" as claimed by our Christian brothers and sisters is truly Anonymous.
I would also like to state that due to this, as with the entire new testament, basing your foundation on Anonymous Scriptures for salvation can pose a huge problem for obvious reasons (i will go into this in part 2)

The "Book of revelation" in the christian scriptures of the New testament. This "Book" has an anonymous author, although Christians force the claim that it was written by the Apostle John, the disciple of Jesus (A.S) , however, the evidence i will provide for this matter is quite telling.

First of all , we can conclude that this person throughout the entire book does claim to be a "John" , however no surname nor further identification is provided throughout the entire book.

"to his servant John,"

" ....John To the seven churches in the province of Asia"

"I, John, your brother and companion"

Another key fact is that the author clearly distinguishes themselves from the apostles in this passage (that is if we are to accept that the 24 elders mentioned throughout this book reference the 12 tribles of isreal AND the 12 apostles of Jesus (A.S):

"Surrounding the throne were twenty-four other thrones, and seated on them were twenty-four elders. They were dressed in white and had crowns of gold on their heads."

However, i must stress that christian scholarship is unsure as to WHO these 24 elders represent, and that NO exegesis was provided by this "John" on the majority of these matters which has left the world guessing and speculating.

Therefore, we can to some extent say that this "John" could be anyone and the burden on proof was on the christians to prove it was the apostle.

Furthermore, they may go to the "Church Fathers" or even the Disciple of the Apostle John, Polycarp. You will find that Polycarp does not mention or quote from the book of revelation AND the gospel of John in his entire life. We have absolutley nothing on the matter. Does it not seem strange that the Christians who claim that Polycarp being the disciple of John never quotes nor mentions anything out of this book?.

I will be fair and quote the so called evidence that the Christians put forward for this book so that i can dismantle the claims and compare it to the evidence required to substantiate such claims in Islam, also known as Isnad (Authentic chain of narration).

This is their claim:

"the external evidence from Church Fathers is significant. Justin Martyr’s famous debate with Trypho occurred in Ephesus around A.D. 135. In his work Dialogue with Trypho (81.4), he writes, “There was a certain man with us, whose name was John, one of the apostles of Christ, who prophesied, by a revelation that was made to him, that those who believed in our Christ would dwell a thousand years in Jerusalem.” Justin is undoubtedly referring here to the book of Revelation and associating it with John the apostle. Irenaeus introduces a series of quotations from Revelation with an introductory formula. In this formula, he claims that “John, the Lord’s disciple” wrote the following words in “the Apocalypse” ( Against Heresies 4.20.11). Irenaeus spent time as a young man in Smyrna with Polycarp, whom he claims knew John the apostle (Eusebius, Ecclesiastical History 5.20.6; Irenaeus, Against Heresies 3.3.4)."

From this we can extract two claims they have for the external evidence for the authorship of book of revelation.

1. Justin Martyr.
The claim is that in his famous debate with Trypho in A.D 135, he writes “There was a certain man with us, whose name was John, one of the apostles of Christ, who prophesied, by a revelation that was made to him, that those who believed in our Christ would dwell a thousand years in Jerusalem.”

All seems well does it not? Thats until we disect some key problems to this "Evidence". First of all, we may start by stating just because Justin Martyr accreditted this book of the apostle John does not make it from the apostle John. Likewise do the Muslims not accredit the Holy Quran to God and do not the Christians refuse to believe in it? (Although the proof of Authorship of the Quran is a whole different subject and has actual foundation and substance).

Secondly, Justin Martyr was born in year 100.
The apostle John died in year 100 AD give or take.

We can safely conclude that Justin Martyr never met John in his life. Therefore , the claim for eyewitness testimony can be thrown out.

Thirdly, the debate took place 35 years after the death of the Apostle John, and these so called witnesses were born after the lifetime of the apostle. Furthermore, Justin Martyr never states why he believes that this book was from the apostle John. Infact, you will find that there is no chain of narration that leads back to the apostle. All we know is that he claimed that "John wrote and prophecised" without providing a single shred of evidence and he was not even alive when John the apostle was.

I would ask if we know enough about this Justin Martyr, such as his biography or was he simply a victim to the false claim that this was from the apostle John himself? Bare in mind that around that time, a lot of writings were falsely accredited to apostles due to the fact that this would give the writing a sense of authority. Forgeries were very common and is a whole different subject which i will not get into at this moment in time.

Now for the second claim of external evidence:

Irenaeus introduces a series of quotations from Revelation with an introductory formula. In this formula, he claims that “John, the Lord’s disciple” wrote the following words in “the Apocalypse” ( Against Heresies 4.20.11). Irenaeus spent time as a young man in Smyrna with Polycarp, whom he claims knew John the apostle (Eusebius, Ecclesiastical History 5.20.6; Irenaeus, Against Heresies 3.3.4)."

Irenaeus of lyons was born 130 AD, 30 years after the death of the Apostle John, therefore he never met him in person. The claim for eyewitness testimony ends here.

Again we meet with the same problem that just because Irenaeus claims that "The lords disciple" wrote does not make it true. Remarkably, Irenaeus never claims that he heard Polycarp mention the book of revelation, as this would give the Christians some foundational basis, but again not alot. Instead, it is the author of the Site that claims that Irenaeus met Polycarp, who was claimed to be the disciple of Apostle John, when he was a child.

Let us hear that again, Irenaeus only knew Polycarp when he was a child, or to put in Irenaeus own words:

"We too saw him in our early youth for he lived a long time, and died, when a very old man, the glorious and most illustrious death of a martyr..." Irenaeus, Against Heresies 3.3.4

and again

"For when I was a boy I saw you in lower Asia with Polycarp, doing brilliantly in the royal court, and endeavoring to gain his approbation. I remember the events of that time more clearly than those of recent years. For what boys learn, growing with their mind, becomes joined with it, so that I am able to describe the very place in which the blessed Polycarp sat as he discoursed...." Eusebius, History of the Church 5.20.4-8:

and thats all we hear of Irenaeus and Polycarp's discourse, never to hear anything after this encounter.

All this evidence and the claim that Irenaeus heard from Polycarp is extremley obscure as he was only a child when he heard these things. I must ask, is eyewitness testimony from a child in a court of law reliable? Let alone to do with salvation. Again, Irenaeus never states that he heard Polycarp quote from the book of revelation, it is just "Implied" from Christains. This is called Conjecture and severs the link of a chain of authority which leads back to the apostle John.

We are still left with the initial problem that Polycarp himself never mentions nor quotes from the Gospel of John OR the book of revelation. A disciple of the Apostle who never quotes nor acknowledges the book under question?

Is must be noted that these are the "Significant" evidences of which Christians put forward for a book that has made it into their scripture. Must we remind the audience that during that time there were heavy agenda driven influences to promote so called works to the level of authorship by an Apostle so that it can be produced and promoted throughout the church.

Let us now hear what other church fathers have to say on the matter;

Revelation was among the last books accepted into the Christian biblical canon, and to the present day some churches that derive from the Church of the East reject it. Eastern Christians became skeptical of the book as doubts concerning its authorship and unusual style were reinforced by aversion to its acceptance by Montanists and other groups considered to be heretical. This distrust of the Book of Revelation persisted in the East through the 15th century.

Dionysius (AD 248), bishop of Alexandria and disciple of Origen, wrote that the Book of Revelation could have been written by Cerinthus although he himself did not adopt the view that Cerinthus was the writer. He regarded the Apocalypse as the work of an inspired man but not of an Apostle (Eusebius, Church History VII.25

Cyril of Jerusalem (348 AD) does not name it among the canonical books (Catechesis IV.33–36).

The Council of Laodicea (363 AD) omits it as a canonical book.

Martin Luther called Revelation "neither apostolic nor prophetic" in the 1522 preface to his translation of the New Testament.

Huldrych Zwingli labelled it "not a book of the Bible", and it was the only New Testament book on which John Calvin did not write a commentary. As of 2015 Revelation remains the only New Testament book not read in the Divine Liturgy of the Eastern Orthodox Church, though Catholic and Protestant liturgies include it.

I would finally like to add that New Testament Scholars to this day are unsure about the authenticity of this book, due to the differences in writing styles from this book and the gospel of John who both are claimed by Christians to have the same Author.

The question at hand is that if this truely is scripture, then why is there no Clear chain of narration that leads back to the apostle. Or to simply put it, why has God not established evidence nor proof for this "scripture" so that Christians can confidently say it is from God, or the Apostle John?.

In part 2 i will go over the possible reasons for this book, as we cannot say this is from the Apostle John. Such options include;
1. It was made to warn Christians of the Roman Empire and to boost their moral, and not a revelation at all.
2. It was from Satan , or a Jinn, to scare mankind into obedience to the themes within relating to the Dajjal that will come in end times.

**brucewayne995** · 09-26-2021

Further note on the evidence provided by Irenaeus;

We too saw him in our early youth, for he lived a long time, and died, when a very old man, the glorious and most illustrious death of a martyr, having always taught the things which he had learned from the apostles, which the church also hands down, and which alone are true.

We must further analyse this as i understand it will be used as evidence. It does state that Irenaeus , when a child, heard Polycarp teach things learned from the apostles, which the church also hands down, which alone are true.

The problem with this is , again, we have no clear authority on what such things are as we have nothing from Polycarp in this regard. Furthermore, this passage is allusive at best due to the fact that the "church" was handing things down for a long time that may or may not have made it into the final cannonisation of the new testament hundreds of years later. What specifically are the "things" that the apostles taught, that the church hands down, which alone are true?

Furthermore how can we trust the church and the method they use to determine what is true or false seeing as many books did not make it into cannon which had potentially more authority than these unknown works?.

To make the matter worse , we dont have ANY attestation from the Apostle John himself, meaning, to even consider it a work from John the apostle there should be some evidence from him. This is what the Chain of Narration should look like if there was evidence for it:

John-Polycarp-Irenaeus.

Instead we have Irenaeus-

Not a word from John, not a word from Polycarp, only Irenaeus. How then can we trust Irenaeus? With blind faith that he is telling the truth and not influenced by agendas that were trifliling the church at that time, mabye so that if he claimed he had a connection to Polycarp, he may be able to claim the Connection to John, which in turn claims his connection to Jesus (PBUH). It doesnt sound so far fetched when you see it like that. Can God expect you to have blind faith on a man (Irenaeus) of whom his exact birth date is not known, his parents are not known, what then for his motives ?

The importance of tracing back to a prophet is so that we can determine if a liar or Satan has added things in or is the start of such "Scripture" in the first place. Allah SWT has blessed the muslims with Isnad, HE could have done so for any deen, but it was saved for Islam. We know the chains or narration that lead back to our Prophet (PBUH), we know all about the people in these chains, their parents, their lifestyle, what they ate, their biography, if they ever told a single Lie etc..

This means we are certain. Certain that our Prophet (PBUH) said and did the things, Certain that revelation can be traced back to the All mighty which means we are certain of our Salvation.

**Abz2000** · 09-26-2021

It is indeed anonymous and replete with question marks, however, I am convinced that much of it contains revelation, this revelation was not necessarily revealed to "John" but rather most likely a compilation of prophesies dictated to scribes who penned them secretly due to the persecution of the pagan Romans and the aduw Allah hypocrite Jewish leaders of the time.

Bear in mind that Allah

rarely allows us to see any direct proof of his revelations, but rather provides evidence enough to convince until certainty, and normally allows people to make an informed choice as to whether they believe that a certain evidence is actually convincing evidence.

In this way, those who are secure in faith can be sifted from those in denial whether they claim to be atheist, pagan, Jewish, Christian, or Muslim.

See it as a test rather than a partisan brawl, the objectivity can be useful.

Sūra 74: Muddaththir, or One Wrapped Up
Verses 56 — Makki; Revealed at Mecca — Sections 2

١- يَا أَيُّهَا الْمُدَّثِّرُ ◯
1. O thou wrapped up (In a mantle) !
٢- قُمْ فَأَنذِرْ ◯
2. Arise and deliver thy warning !
٣- وَرَبَّكَ فَكَبِّرْ ◯
3. And thy Lord Do thou magnify !
٤- وَثِيَابَكَ فَطَهِّرْ ◯
4. And thy garments Keep free from stain !
٥- وَالرُّجْزَ فَاهْجُرْ ◯
5. And all abomination shun !
٦- وَلَا تَمْنُن تَسْتَكْثِرُ ◯
6. Nor expect, in giving, Any increase (for thyself) !
٧- وَلِرَبِّكَ فَاصْبِرْ ◯
7. But, for thy Lord’s (Cause), Be patient and constant !
٨- فَإِذَا نُقِرَ فِي النَّاقُورِ ◯
8. Finally, when the trumpet Is sounded,
٩- فَذَٰلِكَ يَوْمَئِذٍ يَوْمٌ عَسِيرٌ ◯
9. That will be—that Day— A Day of Distress,—
١٠- عَلَى الْكَافِرِينَ غَيْرُ يَسِيرٍ ◯
10. Far from easy For those without Faith.
١١- ذَرْنِي وَمَنْ خَلَقْتُ وَحِيدًا ◯
11. Leave Me alone, (to deal) With the (creature) whom I created (bare and) alone !—
١٢- وَجَعَلْتُ لَهُ مَالًا مَّمْدُودًا ◯
12. To whom I granted Resources in abundance,
١٣- وَبَنِينَ شُهُودًا ◯
13. And sons to be By his side !—
١٤- وَمَهَّدتُّ لَهُ تَمْهِيدًا ◯
14. To whom I made (Life) smooth and comfortable !
١٥- ثُمَّ يَطْمَعُ أَنْ أَزِيدَ ◯
15. Yet is he greedy— That I should add (Yet more);—
١٦- كَلَّا ۖ إِنَّهُ كَانَ لِآيَاتِنَا عَنِيدًا ◯
16. By no means ! For to Our Signs He has been refractory !
١٧- سَأُرْهِقُهُ صَعُودًا ◯
17. Soon will I visit him With a mount of calamities !
١٨- إِنَّهُ فَكَّرَ وَقَدَّرَ ◯
18. For he thought And he plotted ;—
١٩- فَقُتِلَ كَيْفَ قَدَّرَ ◯
19. And woe to him ! How he plotted !—
٢٠- ثُمَّ قُتِلَ كَيْفَ قَدَّرَ ◯
20. Yea, woe to him : How he plotted !—
٢١- ثُمَّ نَظَرَ ◯
21. Then he looked round ;
٢٢- ثُمَّ عَبَسَ وَبَسَرَ ◯
22. Then he frowned And he scowled ;
٢٣- ثُمَّ أَدْبَرَ وَاسْتَكْبَرَ ◯
23. Then he turned back And was haughty ;
٢٤- فَقَالَ إِنْ هَـٰذَا إِلَّا سِحْرٌ يُؤْثَرُ ◯
24. Then said he : “ This is nothing but magic, Derived from of old ; ”
٢٥- إِنْ هَـٰذَا إِلَّا قَوْلُ الْبَشَرِ ◯
25. “ This is nothing but The word of a mortal ! ”
٢٦- سَأُصْلِيهِ سَقَرَ ◯
26. Soon will I Cast him into Hell-Fire !
٢٧- وَمَا أَدْرَاكَ مَا سَقَرُ ◯
27. And what will explain To thee what Hell-Fire is ?
٢٨- لَا تُبْقِي وَلَا تَذَرُ ◯
28. Naught doth it permit To endure, and naught Doth it leave alone !—
٢٩- لَوَّاحَةٌ لِّلْبَشَرِ ◯
29. Darkening and changing The colour of man !
٣٠- عَلَيْهَا تِسْعَةَ عَشَرَ ◯
30. Over it are Nineteen.
٣١- وَمَا جَعَلْنَا أَصْحَابَ النَّارِ إِلَّا مَلَائِكَةً ۙ وَمَا جَعَلْنَا عِدَّتَهُمْ إِلَّا فِتْنَةً لِّلَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا لِيَسْتَيْقِنَ الَّذِينَ أُوتُوا الْكِتَابَ وَيَزْدَادَ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا إِيمَانًا ۙ وَلَا يَرْتَابَ الَّذِينَ أُوتُوا الْكِتَابَ وَالْمُؤْمِنُونَ ۙ وَلِيَقُولَ الَّذِينَ فِي قُلُوبِهِم مَّرَضٌ وَالْكَافِرُونَ مَاذَا أَرَادَ اللَّـهُ بِهَـٰذَا مَثَلًا ۚ كَذَٰلِكَ يُضِلُّ اللَّـهُ مَن يَشَاءُ وَيَهْدِي مَن يَشَاءُ ۚ وَمَا يَعْلَمُ جُنُودَ رَبِّكَ إِلَّا هُوَ ۚ وَمَا هِيَ إِلَّا ذِكْرَىٰ لِلْبَشَرِ ◯
31. And We have set none But angels as guardians Of the Fire ; and We Have fixed their number Only as a trial For Unbelievers,—in order That the people of the Book May arrive at certainty, And the Believers may increase In Faith,— and that no doubts May be left for the People Of the Book and the Believers, And that those in whose hearts Is a disease and the Unbelievers May say, “ What symbol Doth God intend by this ? ” Thus doth God leave to stray Whom He pleaseth and guide Whom He pleaseth : and none Can know the forces Of the Lord, except He. And this is no other than A warning to mankind.

Section 2
٣٢- كَلَّا وَالْقَمَرِ ◯
32. Nay, verily : By the Moon,
٣٣- وَاللَّيْلِ إِذْ أَدْبَرَ ◯
33. And by the Night As it retreateth,
٣٤- وَالصُّبْحِ إِذَا أَسْفَرَ ◯
34. And by the Dawn As it shineth forth,—
٣٥- إِنَّهَا لَإِحْدَى الْكُبَرِ ◯
35. This is but one Of the mighty (portents),
٣٦- نَذِيرًا لِّلْبَشَرِ ◯
36. A warning to mankind,—
٣٧- لِمَن شَاءَ مِنكُمْ أَن يَتَقَدَّمَ أَوْ يَتَأَخَّرَ ◯
37.

We see in the above excerpt from chapter 74 that the words of Allah should not be dismissed as those of a mortal, we know that they also exist in parts (often diluted or changed beyond recognition) - apart from the Quran.

Notice in verse 31 how room is left for some unfortunate people in denial to pretend that they don't understand, or are "confused".

The burden of proof does not fall upon people who call themselves Christians, since, if any is guided, it is for his own good - a Muslim does NOT lazily rely upon Christians to tell him what can and cannot be accepted from the book, but rather makes an effort to seek, know, sift, understand, and accept - the truth. Rather, he makes it his duty to know what he can so that he can navigate better and thereby avoid the big stumblingblocks and pitfalls.

Do we believe in the what we believe coz momma and pappa told us to, or because we have become convinced through SINCERE study and thought? same question would apply to everyone on earth, including those who believe in weird idols.

Btw, since you were kind enough to bring the subject to attention, I would feel it appropriate to ask you your opinion on the verses below,
(note that the final verse is 18, and there are NO verses in the chapter after it).

Do you believe it to be - the word of a mortal, magic by jinns, or a warning from God about the testing times?

https://www youtube.com/watch?v=gvvZNoHIxkc

Revelation 13
16 It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads,
17 so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name.

18 This calls for wisdom.
Let the person who has insight
calculate the number of the beast,
for it is the number of a man.
That number is 666.

For assistance in your data towards decision, Maybe get a pile of stuff with old fashioned bar codes on them and try and compare the three that stick out from the bottom with the other numbers, and see if they look like 6s - forget all the elaborate explanations and look at it yourself.

Some rebellious mockery to go with it:

IBM didn't really name its products as much as it numbered them. IBM's UPC scanning system -- which included the scanners themselves, terminals, a kind of local area network, and a controller -- was called the 3660. But the individual scanners were also tagged with their own number: 3666.

**Eric H** · 09-26-2021

Greetings and peace be with you brucewayne,

Originally Posted by brucewayne995

not a word from Polycarp, only Irenaeus. How then can we trust Irenaeus?

If God has the power to creates the universe and life, then he has the power to edit the Bible. The Bible I read today, is the Bible that God intends me to read. The authors are not so important, rather it is God who has the overall power to make the Bible what he intends it to be.

Just as a matter of interest, my grandfather's name is Polycarp, he was born in Smyrna and named after Bishop Polycarp.

In the spirit of searching for a greatest meaning of 'One God'
Eric

**brucewayne995** · 09-26-2021

Originally Posted by Eric H

Greetings and peace be with you brucewayne,

If God has the power to creates the universe and life, then he has the power to edit the Bible. The Bible I read today, is the Bible that God intends me to read. The authors are not so important, rather it is God who has the overall power to make the Bible what he intends it to be.

Just as a matter of interest, my grandfather's name is Polycarp, he was born in Smyrna and named after Bishop Polycarp.

In the spirit of searching for a greatest meaning of 'One God'
Eric

He also has the power to preserve his revelation, and protect it from Errors, contradictions, false prophecies and scientific mistakes, and vague confusing doctrine which results in massacre of scores of innocents due to their refusal to believe in polytheism masked as monotheism created by church fathers with no basis in scripture..Trinity... would make sense to send another Prophet with a final revelation and a scripture that CAN NOT be corrupted, proven to this day.

I presume your family wants to keep the tradition of Polycarp going lol maybe you should name your son Polycarp too.
Peace be upon you.

**brucewayne995** · 09-26-2021

Originally Posted by Abz2000

It is indeed anonymous and replete with question marks, however, I am convinced that much of it contains revelation, this revelation was not necessarily revealed to "John" but rather most likely a compilation of prophesies dictated to scribes who penned them secretly due to the persecution of the pagan Romans and the aduw Allah hypocrite Jewish leaders of the time.

Bear in mind that Allah

rarely allows us to see any direct proof of his revelations, but rather provides evidence enough to convince until certainty, and normally allows people to make an informed choice as to whether they believe that a certain evidence is actually convincing evidence.

In this way, those who are secure in faith can be sifted from those in denial whether they claim to be atheist, pagan, Jewish, Christian, or Muslim.

See it as a test rather than a partisan brawl, the objectivity can be useful.

Sūra 74: Muddaththir, or One Wrapped Up
Verses 56 — Makki; Revealed at Mecca — Sections 2

١- يَا أَيُّهَا الْمُدَّثِّرُ ◯
1. O thou wrapped up (In a mantle) !
٢- قُمْ فَأَنذِرْ ◯
2. Arise and deliver thy warning !
٣- وَرَبَّكَ فَكَبِّرْ ◯
3. And thy Lord Do thou magnify !
٤- وَثِيَابَكَ فَطَهِّرْ ◯
4. And thy garments Keep free from stain !
٥- وَالرُّجْزَ فَاهْجُرْ ◯
5. And all abomination shun !
٦- وَلَا تَمْنُن تَسْتَكْثِرُ ◯
6. Nor expect, in giving, Any increase (for thyself) !
٧- وَلِرَبِّكَ فَاصْبِرْ ◯
7. But, for thy Lord’s (Cause), Be patient and constant !
٨- فَإِذَا نُقِرَ فِي النَّاقُورِ ◯
8. Finally, when the trumpet Is sounded,
٩- فَذَٰلِكَ يَوْمَئِذٍ يَوْمٌ عَسِيرٌ ◯
9. That will be—that Day— A Day of Distress,—
١٠- عَلَى الْكَافِرِينَ غَيْرُ يَسِيرٍ ◯
10. Far from easy For those without Faith.
١١- ذَرْنِي وَمَنْ خَلَقْتُ وَحِيدًا ◯
11. Leave Me alone, (to deal) With the (creature) whom I created (bare and) alone !—
١٢- وَجَعَلْتُ لَهُ مَالًا مَّمْدُودًا ◯
12. To whom I granted Resources in abundance,
١٣- وَبَنِينَ شُهُودًا ◯
13. And sons to be By his side !—
١٤- وَمَهَّدتُّ لَهُ تَمْهِيدًا ◯
14. To whom I made (Life) smooth and comfortable !
١٥- ثُمَّ يَطْمَعُ أَنْ أَزِيدَ ◯
15. Yet is he greedy— That I should add (Yet more);—
١٦- كَلَّا ۖ إِنَّهُ كَانَ لِآيَاتِنَا عَنِيدًا ◯
16. By no means ! For to Our Signs He has been refractory !
١٧- سَأُرْهِقُهُ صَعُودًا ◯
17. Soon will I visit him With a mount of calamities !
١٨- إِنَّهُ فَكَّرَ وَقَدَّرَ ◯
18. For he thought And he plotted ;—
١٩- فَقُتِلَ كَيْفَ قَدَّرَ ◯
19. And woe to him ! How he plotted !—
٢٠- ثُمَّ قُتِلَ كَيْفَ قَدَّرَ ◯
20. Yea, woe to him : How he plotted !—
٢١- ثُمَّ نَظَرَ ◯
21. Then he looked round ;
٢٢- ثُمَّ عَبَسَ وَبَسَرَ ◯
22. Then he frowned And he scowled ;
٢٣- ثُمَّ أَدْبَرَ وَاسْتَكْبَرَ ◯
23. Then he turned back And was haughty ;
٢٤- فَقَالَ إِنْ هَـٰذَا إِلَّا سِحْرٌ يُؤْثَرُ ◯
24. Then said he : “ This is nothing but magic, Derived from of old ; ”
٢٥- إِنْ هَـٰذَا إِلَّا قَوْلُ الْبَشَرِ ◯
25. “ This is nothing but The word of a mortal ! ”
٢٦- سَأُصْلِيهِ سَقَرَ ◯
26. Soon will I Cast him into Hell-Fire !
٢٧- وَمَا أَدْرَاكَ مَا سَقَرُ ◯
27. And what will explain To thee what Hell-Fire is ?
٢٨- لَا تُبْقِي وَلَا تَذَرُ ◯
28. Naught doth it permit To endure, and naught Doth it leave alone !—
٢٩- لَوَّاحَةٌ لِّلْبَشَرِ ◯
29. Darkening and changing The colour of man !
٣٠- عَلَيْهَا تِسْعَةَ عَشَرَ ◯
30. Over it are Nineteen.
٣١- وَمَا جَعَلْنَا أَصْحَابَ النَّارِ إِلَّا مَلَائِكَةً ۙ وَمَا جَعَلْنَا عِدَّتَهُمْ إِلَّا فِتْنَةً لِّلَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا لِيَسْتَيْقِنَ الَّذِينَ أُوتُوا الْكِتَابَ وَيَزْدَادَ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا إِيمَانًا ۙ وَلَا يَرْتَابَ الَّذِينَ أُوتُوا الْكِتَابَ وَالْمُؤْمِنُونَ ۙ وَلِيَقُولَ الَّذِينَ فِي قُلُوبِهِم مَّرَضٌ وَالْكَافِرُونَ مَاذَا أَرَادَ اللَّـهُ بِهَـٰذَا مَثَلًا ۚ كَذَٰلِكَ يُضِلُّ اللَّـهُ مَن يَشَاءُ وَيَهْدِي مَن يَشَاءُ ۚ وَمَا يَعْلَمُ جُنُودَ رَبِّكَ إِلَّا هُوَ ۚ وَمَا هِيَ إِلَّا ذِكْرَىٰ لِلْبَشَرِ ◯
31. And We have set none But angels as guardians Of the Fire ; and We Have fixed their number Only as a trial For Unbelievers,—in order That the people of the Book May arrive at certainty, And the Believers may increase In Faith,— and that no doubts May be left for the People Of the Book and the Believers, And that those in whose hearts Is a disease and the Unbelievers May say, “ What symbol Doth God intend by this ? ” Thus doth God leave to stray Whom He pleaseth and guide Whom He pleaseth : and none Can know the forces Of the Lord, except He. And this is no other than A warning to mankind.

Section 2
٣٢- كَلَّا وَالْقَمَرِ ◯
32. Nay, verily : By the Moon,
٣٣- وَاللَّيْلِ إِذْ أَدْبَرَ ◯
33. And by the Night As it retreateth,
٣٤- وَالصُّبْحِ إِذَا أَسْفَرَ ◯
34. And by the Dawn As it shineth forth,—
٣٥- إِنَّهَا لَإِحْدَى الْكُبَرِ ◯
35. This is but one Of the mighty (portents),
٣٦- نَذِيرًا لِّلْبَشَرِ ◯
36. A warning to mankind,—
٣٧- لِمَن شَاءَ مِنكُمْ أَن يَتَقَدَّمَ أَوْ يَتَأَخَّرَ ◯
37.

We see in the above excerpt from chapter 74 that the words of Allah should not be dismissed as those of a mortal, we know that they also exist in parts (often diluted or changed beyond recognition) - apart from the Quran.

Notice in verse 31 how room is left for some unfortunate people in denial to pretend that they don't understand, or are "confused".

The burden of proof does not fall upon people who call themselves Christians, since, if any is guided, it is for his own good - a Muslim does NOT lazily rely upon Christians to tell him what can and cannot be accepted from the book, but rather makes an effort to seek, know, sift, understand, and accept - the truth. Rather, he makes it his duty to know what he can so that he can navigate better and thereby avoid the big stumblingblocks and pitfalls.

Do we believe in the what we believe coz momma and pappa told us to, or because we have become convinced through SINCERE study and thought? same question would apply to everyone on earth, including those who believe in weird idols.

Btw, since you were kind enough to bring the subject to attention, I would feel it appropriate to ask you your opinion on the verses below,
(note that the final verse is 18, and there are NO verses in the chapter after it).

Do you believe it to be - the word of a mortal, magic by jinns, or a warning from God about the testing times?

https://www youtube.com/watch?v=gvvZNoHIxkc

Revelation 13
16 It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads,
17 so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name.

18 This calls for wisdom.
Let the person who has insight
calculate the number of the beast,
for it is the number of a man.
That number is 666.

For assistance in your data towards decision, Maybe get a pile of stuff with old fashioned bar codes on them and try and compare the three that stick out from the bottom with the other numbers, and see if they look like 6s - forget all the elaborate explanations and look at it yourself.

Some rebellious mockery to go with it:

IBM didn't really name its products as much as it numbered them. IBM's UPC scanning system -- which included the scanners themselves, terminals, a kind of local area network, and a controller -- was called the 3660. But the individual scanners were also tagged with their own number: 3666.

Salam brother, i would be careful in attributing prophecies to anyone other than Jesus(A.S) and the Prophets PBUH, as our Prophet has said in a hadith
Narrated Abu Hurayrah: The Prophet (ﷺ) said: There is no prophet between me and him, that is, Jesus (as). He will descend.(Sunan Abi Dawud 4324)

True , much of it is borrowed from the book of daniel, again we as muslims can neither confirm nor deny those books unless they directly contradict our Hadith and Quran and Sunnah.

I will be posting a new thread soon to go over , in detail, why i believe this to be either a heavily covered message to the Christians by an anonymous John due to the suffering they were enduring from Romans, with heavy mysticism covering the themes,

OR

a revelation from a Shaytan, posing as an Angel as if you read , it was not Jesus (A.S) who appered to this John, but an Angel, who does not identify himself...... ?
More of that later.

Now, on the subject of those verses you put forward;

The number 666 has an ominous connotation behind it and for unjust reasons. I am going to explore the orgins of this number, and why there has been a stigma attached to it and i will also examine is there any justifiable reason to and what relation this number has in islam.

First of all i would like to explain that the concept of "evil numbers" in islam do not exist.

"Second, with regards to Islam, the number 666, or any other number for that matter, has no significance whatsoever. In fact, Muslims have been warned from assigning significance or meaning to signs, symbols, and icons of any kind.
The religion itself demands absolute conviction and commitment to monotheism, that is, the unity and the oneness of Allah (God), and to the Quran and the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) as the authentic, unadulterated sources of Islamic teachings.

Muslims do believe there is a being known as Shaytan (Satan), who is an avowed enemy of mankind and whose sole purpose is to lead mankind astray, away from Allah, and tempt us to do evil.
However, in Islamic teachings, there is neither a form nor a shape, nor a sign nor a number, nor an icon nor an idol associated with Satan. Further, Muslims are prohibited from engaging in any form of fortune-telling, divining, visiting soothsayers, or holding superstitious beliefs.
Finally, it is important to note that without exception, beliefs and ideologies that are man-made are prone to error, as they are entirely products of human imagination."

Now i want you to ask yourself a question brother, if Allah (SWT) revealed this number 666 in such a way as to explain no exegesis for it, which again the entire method of Geametria goes back to Babylonian Black Magic, do you know that how many people this number has made seem like the Devil, even the pope, even innocent people etc. This number has been the subject of countless theories and countless accusations. This can not (as far as i believe) be the work of Allah. Compare our Hadith on dajjal to this book of revelation. How clear cut our Hadith our to how unclear this "book" is which has been the reason for loads of innocent people being force fitted into the criteria of the "beast".

Islam is clear because it is Haqq. Fear Allah, not a number.

**Abz2000** · 09-27-2021

brother,
did you know that individuals such as Barnabas and others used to revolve around Jesus like personal journalists, that they were even sought out by the enemies of Allah

during and after the raid, and that a revelation from Allah

called the Injeel existed, either orally or penned.
In my opinion, the likely scenario based on the culmination of data leading to a "hunch" points in that direction.

Does it not seem ironic to you that the verses were taking aim at the global usury system - upon which war is declared by Allah

in the Quran, that the three guard and center bars of a barcode resemble 6s more than any other digit, and that it can easily be used to mark goods or people (please, I'm not talking about Haji wrist bands for identifying lost pilgrims) and that it is a tool of the electronic usurers to force people to keep their resources in the bank, which (resources) can then be used to make people further indebted and enslaved (with their own money) to the extent that they sell their schools, hospitals, orphanages, and prisons in order for bankers to keep turning a profit.

Please consider the following debate:

22Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw.
23And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David?
24But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.

25And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:

26And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?

27And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.

28But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

29Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

30He that is not with me is against me;
and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

-------

∆ apparently a hizb Allah Vs hizb as-shaytuaan allusion.

The following looks like a positive ID :

Hadith

حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ بْنُ حُمَيْدٍ، حَدَّثَنَا رَوْحُ بْنُ عُبَادَةَ، عَنْ حَمَّادِ بْنِ سَلَمَةَ، عَنْ عَلِيِّ بْنِ زَيْدٍ، عَنْ أَوْسِ بْنِ خَالِدٍ، عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ، أَنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ ‏

‏ تَخْرُجُ الدَّابَّةُ مَعَهَا خَاتَمُ سُلَيْمَانَ وَعَصَا مُوسَى فَتَجْلُو وَجْهَ الْمُؤْمِنِ وَتَخْتِمُ أَنْفَ الْكَافِرِ بِالْخَاتَمِ حَتَّى إِنَّ أَهْلَ الْخِوَانِ لَيَجْتَمِعُونَ فَيَقُولُ هَاهَا يَا مُؤْمِنُ وَيُقَالُ هَاهَا يَا كَافِرُ وَيَقُولُ هَذَا يَا كَافِرُ وَهَذَا يَا مُؤْمِنُ ‏"

‏ ‏‏ قَالَ أَبُو عِيسَى هَذَا حَدِيثٌ حَسَنٌ ‏‏ وَقَدْ رُوِيَ هَذَا الْحَدِيثُ عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ عَنِ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم مِنْ غَيْرِ هَذَا الْوَجْهِ فِي دَابَّةِ الأَرْضِ ‏‏ وَفِيهِ عَنْ أَبِي أُمَامَةَ وَحُذَيْفَةَ بْنِ أُسَيْدٍ ‏‏

Narrated Abu Hurairah:

that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said:

"A beast will emerge from the earth.

With it shall be the ring of Sulaiman and the staff of Musa.

It will brighten the face of the believer, and stamp the nose of the disbeliever with the ring,
such that when the people gather to eat, it will be said to this one: 'O believer! and to that one: 'O disbeliever!'"

Da'if (Darussalam)

English : Vol. 5, Book 44, Hadith 3187
Arabic : Book 47, Hadith 3490
Jamiat Tirmidhi

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Hadith

حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو بَكْرِ بْنُ أَبِي شَيْبَةَ، حَدَّثَنَا يُونُسُ بْنُ مُحَمَّدٍ، حَدَّثَنَا حَمَّادُ بْنُ سَلَمَةَ، عَنْ عَلِيِّ بْنِ زَيْدٍ، عَنْ أَوْسِ بْنِ خَالِدٍ، عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ، أَنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ ـ صلى الله عليه وسلم ـ قَالَ ‏

‏ تَخْرُجُ الدَّابَّةُ وَمَعَهَا خَاتَمُ سُلَيْمَانَ بْنِ دَاوُدَ وَعَصَا مُوسَى بْنِ عِمْرَانَ عَلَيْهِمَا السَّلاَمُ فَتَجْلُو وَجْهَ الْمُؤْمِنِ بِالْعَصَا وَ تَخْطِمُ أَنْفَ الْكَافِرِ بِالْخَاتَمِ حَتَّى أَنَّ أَهْلَ الْحِوَاءِ لَيَجْتَمِعُونَ فَيَقُولُ هَذَا يَا مُؤْمِنُ وَيَقُولُ هَذَا يَا كَافِرُ ‏"

‏ ‏‏ قَالَ أَبُو الْحَسَنِ الْقَطَّانُ حَدَّثَنَاهُ إِبْرَاهِيمُ بْنُ يَحْيَى، حَدَّثَنَا مُوسَى بْنُ إِسْمَاعِيلَ، حَدَّثَنَا حَمَّادُ بْنُ سَلَمَةَ، فَذَكَرَ نَحْوَهُ وَقَالَ فِيهِ مَرَّةً فَيَقُولُ هَذَا يَا مُؤْمِنُ ‏‏ وَهَذَا يَا كَافِرُ ‏‏

It was narrated from Abu Hurairah that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said:

"The Beast will emerge
and will have with it the seal of Sulaiman bin Dawud and the staff of Musa bin "Imran (as).
It will make the faces of the believers shine with the staff,
and will mark the noses of the disbelievers with the seal,
until the inhabitants of a cluster of houses will gather together; then one will say "O believer!' And to another "O disbeliever.'"

Da'if (Darussalam)

Sunan Ibn Majah 4066
In-book : Book 36, Hadith 141
English translation : Vol. 5, Book 36, Hadith 4066
Sunan Ibn Majah

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Beast branding:.
images(1004).jpg
maxresdefault(2).jpg

Slave branding:
images(1001).jpg
images(1002).jpg

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...rtP6khjJ8&s=10

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...JekHuAST8&s=10

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...PKg9UTb8R&s=10

...

Re the significance of 666
The number is not necessarily evil in and of itself, it can mean two thirds of anything depending on if you use a decimal point or are counting in thousands, and dividing legal shares into thirds is not necessarily an "evil omen".
In this case however it is a descriptive warning, let's try to forget omens for now and work with logic, there was no electricity then, and it was not practically possible to put a number on each saleable item and force transactions through them (I believe they didn't yet have zeros in the Middle East. So i believe it would be far fetched to assume that it was a person making it all up, or a Satan - since he would then be alerting and warning people off the usury game. If not for those verses warning people by the one and only God, I believe they (usurers) would have upped the ante AND implemented the chip ages ago.

Attachment 7276

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...PD5hA&usqp=CAU

There's a 6 next to the center bar for ease of comparison:
Or search: traditional barcode
The search Barcode 666 has them highlited for ease of reference

Attachment 7277

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...iGEbA&usqp=CAU

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_and_the_Holocaust

If you learn about ibm, the Hollerith machine, the Holocaust, the tattoos, the verichip, and the wars forcefully started by the bankers, you might get an idea of how Satan works through these vehicles as the final countdown approaches.

Notice the psychology of nonchalance employed in the following advertisment (always for a reason)

IBM RFID Commercial-The Future Supermarket
56K views · 8 years ago

Is it not a global usurer's dream?

From the above data and more, I believe those specific verses + more to be the work of Allah

in warning mankind to steer clear of becoming branded slaves of the usury system, and that it defies logic for Satan to warn us to the extent that millions in Europe, America, Africa and elsewhere are repulsed by the implantable digital illusory smoke money before it's even introduced, and are ready to fight it tooth and nail.

Notice how the long verse in chapter 74 mentions a number and calls it a SIGN for the people of the book and the believers, and so that NO doubts can be left for the people of the book.

It appears to be pointing to the likely possiblity that they find something in the previously revealed and newly revealed Books and come to certainty about which side they are (or should be) on.

Regarding the "our" hadith, and "their" book .... I don't think ownership applies to people in God's sight, that this sort of claimed ownership of scriptures and messengers of the one and only God can cause partisan blinding, and since it's not a milkshake, we'd probably be better off avoiding the "it's better than yours" tuning.

Also if these verses spoke from the cradle, and are now reaching maturity, would you not at least acknowledge that they open the eyes when taking into account the divinely declared all out war on usury and explicit warning against the coming/current trials?

13They brought to the Pharisees him that aforetime was blind. 14And it was the sabbath day when Jesus made the clay, and opened his eyes. 15Then again the Pharisees also asked him how he had received his sight.
He said unto them, He put clay upon mine eyes, and I washed, and do see.
16Therefore said some of the Pharisees, This man is not of God, because he keepeth not the sabbath day.
Others said,
How can a man that is a sinner do such miracles?
And there was a division among them.
17They say unto the blind man again, What sayest thou of him, that he hath opened thine eyes? He said, He is a prophet.
18But the Jews did not believe concerning him, that he had been blind, and received his sight, until they called the parents of him that had received his sight. 19And they asked them, saying, Is this your son, who ye say was born blind? how then doth he now see?
20His parents answered them and said, We know that this is our son, and that he was born blind: 21but by what means he now seeth, we know not; or who hath opened his eyes, we know not: he is of age; ask him: he shall speak for himself. 22These words spake his parents, because they feared the Jews: for the Jews had agreed already, that if any man did confess that he was Christ, he should be put out of the synagogue. 23Therefore said his parents, He is of age; ask him.

(Cool hint huh?

). Ref Quran, chapter. 19,
verse. 29

24Then again called they the man that was blind, and said unto him, Give God the praise: we know that this man is a sinner.
25He answered and said, Whether he be a sinner or no, I know not: one thing I know, that, whereas I was blind, now I see.
26Then said they to him again, What did he to thee? how opened he thine eyes?
27He answered them, I have told you already, and ye did not hear: wherefore would ye hear it again? will ye also be his disciples?
28Then they reviled him, and said, Thou art his disciple; but we are Moses' disciples.
29We know that God spake unto Moses: as for this fellow, we know not from whence he is.

-------

The words, "alladheena yu-minoona bi maa unzila ilaika wa maa unzila min qabliqa wa bil aakhirathi hoom yuqinoon" - even though it was revealed in the same book that previous scriptures had been "edited" / corrupted much....... must actually mean something meaningful.

**Eric H** · 09-27-2021

Greetings and peace be with you Bruce,

Originally Posted by brucewayne995

He also has the power to preserve his revelation, and protect it from Errors

The problem is not with God;it is with man. We are too arrogant and stupid to follow God's word together and in the same way. There is only 'One God; One Jesus Christ, yet we have thousands of denominations. Meaning we want to take God's word and do it our way. Every religion fragments and goes their separate ways to some degree.

In the spirit of searching for a greatest meaning of 'One God'
Eric

**brucewayne995** · 09-28-2021

Originally Posted by Abz2000

brother,
did you know that individuals such as Barnabas and others used to revolve around Jesus like personal journalists, that they were even sought out by the enemies of Allah

during and after the raid, and that a revelation from Allah

called the Injeel existed, either orally or penned.
In my opinion, the likely scenario based on the culmination of data leading to a "hunch" points in that direction.

Does it not seem ironic to you that the verses were taking aim at the global usury system - upon which war is declared by Allah

in the Quran, that the three guard and center bars of a barcode resemble 6s more than any other digit, and that it can easily be used to mark goods or people (please, I'm not talking about Haji wrist bands for identifying lost pilgrims) and that it is a tool of the electronic usurers to force people to keep their resources in the bank, which (resources) can then be used to make people further indebted and enslaved (with their own money) to the extent that they sell their schools, hospitals, orphanages, and prisons in order for bankers to keep turning a profit.

Please consider the following debate:

22Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw.
23And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David?
24But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.

25And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:

26And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?

27And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.

28But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

29Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

30He that is not with me is against me;
and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

-------

∆ apparently a hizb Allah Vs hizb as-shaytuaan allusion.

The following looks like a positive ID :

Hadith

حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ بْنُ حُمَيْدٍ، حَدَّثَنَا رَوْحُ بْنُ عُبَادَةَ، عَنْ حَمَّادِ بْنِ سَلَمَةَ، عَنْ عَلِيِّ بْنِ زَيْدٍ، عَنْ أَوْسِ بْنِ خَالِدٍ، عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ، أَنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ ‏

‏ تَخْرُجُ الدَّابَّةُ مَعَهَا خَاتَمُ سُلَيْمَانَ وَعَصَا مُوسَى فَتَجْلُو وَجْهَ الْمُؤْمِنِ وَتَخْتِمُ أَنْفَ الْكَافِرِ بِالْخَاتَمِ حَتَّى إِنَّ أَهْلَ الْخِوَانِ لَيَجْتَمِعُونَ فَيَقُولُ هَاهَا يَا مُؤْمِنُ وَيُقَالُ هَاهَا يَا كَافِرُ وَيَقُولُ هَذَا يَا كَافِرُ وَهَذَا يَا مُؤْمِنُ ‏"

‏ ‏‏ قَالَ أَبُو عِيسَى هَذَا حَدِيثٌ حَسَنٌ ‏‏ وَقَدْ رُوِيَ هَذَا الْحَدِيثُ عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ عَنِ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم مِنْ غَيْرِ هَذَا الْوَجْهِ فِي دَابَّةِ الأَرْضِ ‏‏ وَفِيهِ عَنْ أَبِي أُمَامَةَ وَحُذَيْفَةَ بْنِ أُسَيْدٍ ‏‏

Narrated Abu Hurairah:

that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said:

"A beast will emerge from the earth.

With it shall be the ring of Sulaiman and the staff of Musa.

It will brighten the face of the believer, and stamp the nose of the disbeliever with the ring,
such that when the people gather to eat, it will be said to this one: 'O believer! and to that one: 'O disbeliever!'"

Da'if (Darussalam)

English : Vol. 5, Book 44, Hadith 3187
Arabic : Book 47, Hadith 3490
Jamiat Tirmidhi

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Hadith

حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو بَكْرِ بْنُ أَبِي شَيْبَةَ، حَدَّثَنَا يُونُسُ بْنُ مُحَمَّدٍ، حَدَّثَنَا حَمَّادُ بْنُ سَلَمَةَ، عَنْ عَلِيِّ بْنِ زَيْدٍ، عَنْ أَوْسِ بْنِ خَالِدٍ، عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ، أَنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ ـ صلى الله عليه وسلم ـ قَالَ ‏

‏ تَخْرُجُ الدَّابَّةُ وَمَعَهَا خَاتَمُ سُلَيْمَانَ بْنِ دَاوُدَ وَعَصَا مُوسَى بْنِ عِمْرَانَ عَلَيْهِمَا السَّلاَمُ فَتَجْلُو وَجْهَ الْمُؤْمِنِ بِالْعَصَا وَ تَخْطِمُ أَنْفَ الْكَافِرِ بِالْخَاتَمِ حَتَّى أَنَّ أَهْلَ الْحِوَاءِ لَيَجْتَمِعُونَ فَيَقُولُ هَذَا يَا مُؤْمِنُ وَيَقُولُ هَذَا يَا كَافِرُ ‏"

‏ ‏‏ قَالَ أَبُو الْحَسَنِ الْقَطَّانُ حَدَّثَنَاهُ إِبْرَاهِيمُ بْنُ يَحْيَى، حَدَّثَنَا مُوسَى بْنُ إِسْمَاعِيلَ، حَدَّثَنَا حَمَّادُ بْنُ سَلَمَةَ، فَذَكَرَ نَحْوَهُ وَقَالَ فِيهِ مَرَّةً فَيَقُولُ هَذَا يَا مُؤْمِنُ ‏‏ وَهَذَا يَا كَافِرُ ‏‏

It was narrated from Abu Hurairah that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said:

"The Beast will emerge
and will have with it the seal of Sulaiman bin Dawud and the staff of Musa bin "Imran (as).
It will make the faces of the believers shine with the staff,
and will mark the noses of the disbelievers with the seal,
until the inhabitants of a cluster of houses will gather together; then one will say "O believer!' And to another "O disbeliever.'"

Da'if (Darussalam)

Sunan Ibn Majah 4066
In-book : Book 36, Hadith 141
English translation : Vol. 5, Book 36, Hadith 4066
Sunan Ibn Majah

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Beast branding:.
images(1004).jpg
maxresdefault(2).jpg

Slave branding:
images(1001).jpg
images(1002).jpg

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...rtP6khjJ8&s=10

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...JekHuAST8&s=10

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...PKg9UTb8R&s=10

...

Re the significance of 666
The number is not necessarily evil in and of itself, it can mean two thirds of anything depending on if you use a decimal point or are counting in thousands, and dividing legal shares into thirds is not necessarily an "evil omen".
In this case however it is a descriptive warning, let's try to forget omens for now and work with logic, there was no electricity then, and it was not practically possible to put a number on each saleable item and force transactions through them (I believe they didn't yet have zeros in the Middle East. So i believe it would be far fetched to assume that it was a person making it all up, or a Satan - since he would then be alerting and warning people off the usury game. If not for those verses warning people by the one and only God, I believe they (usurers) would have upped the ante AND implemented the chip ages ago.

Attachment 7276

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...PD5hA&usqp=CAU

There's a 6 next to the center bar for ease of comparison:
Or search: traditional barcode
The search Barcode 666 has them highlited for ease of reference

Attachment 7277

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...iGEbA&usqp=CAU

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_and_the_Holocaust

If you learn about ibm, the Hollerith machine, the Holocaust, the tattoos, the verichip, and the wars forcefully started by the bankers, you might get an idea of how Satan works through these vehicles as the final countdown approaches.

Notice the psychology of nonchalance employed in the following advertisment (always for a reason)

IBM RFID Commercial-The Future Supermarket
56K views · 8 years ago

Is it not a global usurer's dream?

From the above data and more, I believe those specific verses + more to be the work of Allah

in warning mankind to steer clear of becoming branded slaves of the usury system, and that it defies logic for Satan to warn us to the extent that millions in Europe, America, Africa and elsewhere are repulsed by the implantable digital illusory smoke money before it's even introduced, and are ready to fight it tooth and nail.

Notice how the long verse in chapter 74 mentions a number and calls it a SIGN for the people of the book and the believers, and so that NO doubts can be left for the people of the book.

It appears to be pointing to the likely possiblity that they find something in the previously revealed and newly revealed Books and come to certainty about which side they are (or should be) on.

Regarding the "our" hadith, and "their" book .... I don't think ownership applies to people in God's sight, that this sort of claimed ownership of scriptures and messengers of the one and only God can cause partisan blinding, and since it's not a milkshake, we'd probably be better off avoiding the "it's better than yours" tuning.

Also if these verses spoke from the cradle, and are now reaching maturity, would you not at least acknowledge that they open the eyes when taking into account the divinely declared all out war on usury and explicit warning against the coming/current trials?

13They brought to the Pharisees him that aforetime was blind. 14And it was the sabbath day when Jesus made the clay, and opened his eyes. 15Then again the Pharisees also asked him how he had received his sight.
He said unto them, He put clay upon mine eyes, and I washed, and do see.
16Therefore said some of the Pharisees, This man is not of God, because he keepeth not the sabbath day.
Others said,
How can a man that is a sinner do such miracles?
And there was a division among them.
17They say unto the blind man again, What sayest thou of him, that he hath opened thine eyes? He said, He is a prophet.
18But the Jews did not believe concerning him, that he had been blind, and received his sight, until they called the parents of him that had received his sight. 19And they asked them, saying, Is this your son, who ye say was born blind? how then doth he now see?
20His parents answered them and said, We know that this is our son, and that he was born blind: 21but by what means he now seeth, we know not; or who hath opened his eyes, we know not: he is of age; ask him: he shall speak for himself. 22These words spake his parents, because they feared the Jews: for the Jews had agreed already, that if any man did confess that he was Christ, he should be put out of the synagogue. 23Therefore said his parents, He is of age; ask him.

(Cool hint huh?

). Ref Quran, chapter. 19,
verse. 29

24Then again called they the man that was blind, and said unto him, Give God the praise: we know that this man is a sinner.
25He answered and said, Whether he be a sinner or no, I know not: one thing I know, that, whereas I was blind, now I see.
26Then said they to him again, What did he to thee? how opened he thine eyes?
27He answered them, I have told you already, and ye did not hear: wherefore would ye hear it again? will ye also be his disciples?
28Then they reviled him, and said, Thou art his disciple; but we are Moses' disciples.
29We know that God spake unto Moses: as for this fellow, we know not from whence he is.

-------

The words, "alladheena yu-minoona bi maa unzila ilaika wa maa unzila min qabliqa wa bil aakhirathi hoom yuqinoon" - even though it was revealed in the same book that previous scriptures had been "edited" / corrupted much....... must actually mean something meaningful.

Salam Brother, I appreciate you have done alot of research into this subject.

However, i would just like to say, IF the 666 phenomenom was important, do you not think that Allah SWT would have mentioned it in Quran or Hadith/Sunnah. Not one mention, which means its not from Allah or Abbrogated.

Also, the hadith you used is Daif (Weak) Although we do have tradition that there will be a beast from the earth that will be able to talk but it will be an animal, not human beast like in the book of revelations.

Again brother i would like to stress, please be careful because we have our Aqida which Allah SWT deemed enough for us , and Authentic. If there is no mention of those things in our Aqida, then we are only conjecturing.

As salamu alaikum brother

**brucewayne995** · 09-28-2021

Originally Posted by Eric H

Greetings and peace be with you Bruce,

The problem is not with God;it is with man. We are too arrogant and stupid to follow God's word together and in the same way. There is only 'One God

This is exactly why God would send a final revelation and promise to protect and preserve it himself....

Below are how Allah has made this possible..

I appreciate you may not be able to read Arabic Eric, below is an unbroken chain of Quran transmission from the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) the same as we have today.

Eric, Is this not proof that if Allah willed , he could? That even a child as young as 6 can learn the entire Quran in Arabic when he does not even understand it as Arabic is not his native tounge, yet chinese or english will be ? That if you were to throw every scripture into the sea today ... only the quran we would have back in the same day, as we have Millions of people who know it off by heart.... Maybe Billion...

Compressed Quran Chain.jpg

**Abz2000** · 12-23-2021

Originally Posted by brucewayne995

Salam Brother, I appreciate you have done alot of research into this subject.

However, i would just like to say, IF the 666 phenomenom was important, do you not think that Allah SWT would have mentioned it in Quran or Hadith/Sunnah. Not one mention, which means its not from Allah or Abbrogated.

Wadhkur fi Al kitaab .......

Allah's Messenger

would often become curious when he would receive verses regarding the people of the book, and then call those knowledgeable in that field, and ask them what they knew about it, those people would often elaborate what they knew - their primary source of information being what remained of previously revealed scriptures. the commands by Allah :SWT: to ask them are plentiful, one off the top of my mind:

_________________________

Al-A'raf 7:163

وَسْـَٔلْهُمْ عَنِ ٱلْقَرْيَةِ ٱلَّتِى كَانَتْ حَاضِرَةَ ٱلْبَحْرِ إِذْ يَعْدُونَ فِى ٱلسَّبْتِ إِذْ تَأْتِيهِمْ حِيتَانُهُمْ يَوْمَ سَبْتِهِمْ شُرَّعًا وَيَوْمَ لَا يَسْبِتُونَۙ لَا تَأْتِيهِمْۚ كَذَٰلِكَ نَبْلُوهُم بِمَا كَانُوا۟ يَفْسُقُونَ

Ask them concerning the town standing close by the sea. Behold! they transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath. For on the day of their Sabbath their fish did come to them, openly holding up their heads, but on the day they had no Sabbath, they came not: thus did We make a trial of them, for they were given to transgression.

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_________________________

It is easy to logically rationalize that the end times prophecies were cause for reflection for the people of past times, and a duty to pass on the warnings and advices to following generations - to us however, they are vital/essential information with warnings as we steer through various global deceptions that naturally take place in the age of global communication and travel.
It's ultimately a choice, for which each will be judged at their own scales, the sincerity of each individual is his/her own responsibility.

Originally Posted by brucewayne995

Also, the hadith you used is Daif (Weak) Although we do have tradition that there will be a beast from the earth that will be able to talk but it will be an animal, not human beast like in the book of revelations.

We would need to draw upon scriptural sources to understand how visions in waking moments and dreams are often interpreted by logical, gifted, and wise people to point to the target of the described symbology instead of the symbology itself, even though the symbology may be literal when hinting at another answer (like eleven planets in the Solar system) ...

for example:

_________________________

Yusuf 12:4

إِذْ قَالَ يُوسُفُ لِأَبِيهِ يَٰٓأَبَتِ إِنِّى رَأَيْتُ أَحَدَ عَشَرَ كَوْكَبًا وَٱلشَّمْسَ وَٱلْقَمَرَ رَأَيْتُهُمْ لِى سَٰجِدِينَ

Behold! Joseph said to his father: "O my father! I did see eleven stars and the sun and the moon: I saw them prostrate themselves to me!"

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Yusuf 12:100

وَرَفَعَ أَبَوَيْهِ عَلَى ٱلْعَرْشِ وَخَرُّوا۟ لَهُۥ سُجَّدًاۖ وَقَالَ يَٰٓأَبَتِ هَٰذَا تَأْوِيلُ رُءْيَٰىَ مِن قَبْلُ قَدْ جَعَلَهَا رَبِّى حَقًّاۖ وَقَدْ أَحْسَنَ بِىٓ إِذْ أَخْرَجَنِى مِنَ ٱلسِّجْنِ وَجَآءَ بِكُم مِّنَ ٱلْبَدْوِ مِنۢ بَعْدِ أَن نَّزَغَ ٱلشَّيْطَٰنُ بَيْنِى وَبَيْنَ إِخْوَتِىٓۚ إِنَّ رَبِّى لَطِيفٌ لِّمَا يَشَآءُۚ إِنَّهُۥ هُوَ ٱلْعَلِيمُ ٱلْحَكِيمُ

And he raised his parents high on the throne (of dignity), and they fell down in prostration, (all) before him. He said: "O my father! this is the fulfilment of my vision of old! Allah hath made it come true! He was indeed good to me when He took me out of prison and brought you (all here) out of the desert, (even) after Satan had sown enmity between me and my brothers. Verily my Lord understandeth best the mysteries of all that He planneth to do, for verily He is full of knowledge and wisdom.

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__________________________________________________

Yusuf 12:36

وَدَخَلَ مَعَهُ ٱلسِّجْنَ فَتَيَانِۖ قَالَ أَحَدُهُمَآ إِنِّىٓ أَرَىٰنِىٓ أَعْصِرُ خَمْرًاۖ وَقَالَ ٱلْءَاخَرُ إِنِّىٓ أَرَىٰنِىٓ أَحْمِلُ فَوْقَ رَأْسِى خُبْزًا تَأْكُلُ ٱلطَّيْرُ مِنْهُۖ نَبِّئْنَا بِتَأْوِيلِهِۦٓۖ إِنَّا نَرَىٰكَ مِنَ ٱلْمُحْسِنِينَ

Now with him there came into the prison two young men. Said one of them: "I see myself (in a dream) pressing wine." said the other: "I see myself (in a dream) carrying bread on my head, and birds are eating, thereof." "Tell us" (they said) "The truth and meaning thereof: for we see thou art one that doth good." .......

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Yusuf 12:41

يَٰصَىٰحِبَىِ ٱلسِّجْنِ أَمَّآ أَحَدُكُمَا فَيَسْقِى رَبَّهُۥ خَمْرًاۖ وَأَمَّا ٱلْءَاخَرُ فَيُصْلَبُ فَتَأْكُلُ ٱلطَّيْرُ مِن رَّأْسِهِۦۚ قُضِىَ ٱلْأَمْرُ ٱلَّذِى فِيهِ تَسْتَفْتِيَانِ

....... "O my two companions of the prison! As to one of you, he will pour out the wine for his lord to drink: as for the other, he will hang from the cross, and the birds will eat from off his head. (so) hath been decreed that matter whereof ye twain do enquire"...

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__________________________________________________

Yusuf 12:43

وَقَالَ ٱلْمَلِكُ إِنِّىٓ أَرَىٰ سَبْعَ بَقَرَٰتٍ سِمَانٍ يَأْكُلُهُنَّ سَبْعٌ عِجَافٌ وَسَبْعَ سُنۢبُلَٰتٍ خُضْرٍ وَأُخَرَ يَابِسَٰتٍۖ يَٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلْمَلَأُ أَفْتُونِى فِى رُءْيَٰىَ إِن كُنتُمْ لِلرُّءْيَا تَعْبُرُونَ

The king (of Egypt) said: "I do see (in a vision) seven fat kine, whom seven lean ones devour, and seven green ears of corn, and seven (others) withered. O ye chiefs! Expound to me my vision if it be that ye can interpret visions."

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Yusuf 12:44

قَالُوٓا۟ أَضْغَٰثُ أَحْلَٰمٍۖ وَمَا نَحْنُ بِتَأْوِيلِ ٱلْأَحْلَٰمِ بِعَٰلِمِينَ

They said: "A confused medley of dreams: and we are not skilled in the interpretation of dreams."

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Yusuf 12:45

وَقَالَ ٱلَّذِى نَجَا مِنْهُمَا وَٱدَّكَرَ بَعْدَ أُمَّةٍ أَنَا۠ أُنَبِّئُكُم بِتَأْوِيلِهِۦ فَأَرْسِلُونِ

But the man who had been released, one of the two (who had been in prison) and who now bethought him after (so long) a space of time, said: "I will tell you the truth of its interpretation: send ye me (therefore)."

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Yusuf 12:46

يُوسُفُ أَيُّهَا ٱلصِّدِّيقُ أَفْتِنَا فِى سَبْعِ بَقَرَٰتٍ سِمَانٍ يَأْكُلُهُنَّ سَبْعٌ عِجَافٌ وَسَبْعِ سُنۢبُلَٰتٍ خُضْرٍ وَأُخَرَ يَابِسَٰتٍ لَّعَلِّىٓ أَرْجِعُ إِلَى ٱلنَّاسِ لَعَلَّهُمْ يَعْلَمُونَ

"O Joseph!" (he said) "O man of truth! Expound to us (the dream) of seven fat kine whom seven lean ones devour, and of seven green ears of corn and (seven) others withered: that I may return to the people, and that they may understand."

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Yusuf 12:47

قَالَ تَزْرَعُونَ سَبْعَ سِنِينَ دَأَبًا فَمَا حَصَدتُّمْ فَذَرُوهُ فِى سُنۢبُلِهِۦٓ إِلَّا قَلِيلًا مِّمَّا تَأْكُلُونَ

(Joseph) said: "For seven years shall ye diligently sow as is your wont: and the harvests that ye reap, ye shall leave them in the ear,- except a little, of which ye shall eat.

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Yusuf 12:48

ثُمَّ يَأْتِى مِنۢ بَعْدِ ذَٰلِكَ سَبْعٌ شِدَادٌ يَأْكُلْنَ مَا قَدَّمْتُمْ لَهُنَّ إِلَّا قَلِيلًا مِّمَّا تُحْصِنُونَ

"Then will come after that (period) seven dreadful (years), which will devour what ye shall have laid by in advance for them,- (all) except a little which ye shall have (specially) guarded.

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Yusuf 12:49

ثُمَّ يَأْتِى مِنۢ بَعْدِ ذَٰلِكَ عَامٌ فِيهِ يُغَاثُ ٱلنَّاسُ وَفِيهِ يَعْصِرُونَ

"Then will come after that (period) a year in which the people will have abundant water, and in which they will press (wine and oil)."

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We see clearly that the beasts which the king saw through inspiration where actually meaningful and important symbols critical to life and death for the masses.

Originally Posted by brucewayne995

Again brother i would like to stress, please be careful because we have our Aqida which Allah SWT deemed enough for us , and Authentic. If there is no mention of those things in our Aqida, then we are only conjecturing.

As salamu alaikum brother

Hadith

حَدَّثَنَا مُؤَمَّلُ بْنُ هِشَامٍ، حَدَّثَنَا إِسْمَاعِيلُ، عَنْ أَبِي حَيَّانَ التَّيْمِيِّ، عَنْ أَبِي زُرْعَةَ، قَالَ جَاءَ نَفَرٌ إِلَى مَرْوَانَ بِالْمَدِينَةِ فَسَمِعُوهُ يُحَدِّثُ فِي الآيَاتِ أَنَّ أَوَّلَهَا الدَّجَّالُ قَالَ فَانْصَرَفْتُ إِلَى عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ عَمْرٍو فَحَدَّثْتُهُ فَقَالَ عَبْدُ اللَّهِ لَمْ يَقُلْ شَيْئًا سَمِعْتُ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم يَقُولُ ‏

‏ إِنَّ أَوَّلَ الآيَاتِ خُرُوجًا طُلُوعُ الشَّمْسِ مِنْ مَغْرِبِهَا أَوِ الدَّابَّةُ عَلَى النَّاسِ ضُحًى فَأَيَّتُهُمَا كَانَتْ قَبْلَ صَاحِبَتِهَا فَالأُخْرَى عَلَى أَثَرِهَا ‏"

‏ ‏‏ قَالَ عَبْدُ اللَّهِ وَكَانَ يَقْرَأُ الْكُتُبَ وَأَظُنُّ أَوَّلَهُمَا خُرُوجًا طُلُوعُ الشَّمْسِ مِنْ مَغْرِبِهَا ‏‏

Abu zur'ah said:

A group of people came to Marwan in Medina, and they heard him say that the first of the signs to appear would be the coming forth of the Dajjal (Antichirst). He said: I then went to Abd Allah b. "Amr and mentioned it to him. He did not say anything(reliable). I heard the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) say: The first of the signs to appear will be the rising of the sun in its place of setting and the coming forth of the beast against mankind in the forenoon. Whichever of them comes first will soon be followed by the other. 'Abd Allah who used to read the scriptures (Torah, Gospel) said: I think the first of them will be the rising of the sun in its place of setting.

Sahih (Al-Albani)

Sunan Abi Dawud 4310
In-book : Book 39, Hadith 20
English translation : Book 38, Hadith 4296
Abu Dawood

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JazaakaAllaahu khayran for the advice brother, I will evaluate it seriously inshaAllah :SWT:

:Wasalam:

**Abz2000** · 12-29-2021

Government demand:

Get your dog microchipped
You must make sure your dog is fitted with a microchip by the time it’s 8 weeks old.

You can be fined up to £500 if your dog is not microchipped.

The rules are different if you’re in Scotland or Wales.
Who can microchip your dog
Your dog’s microchip must be fitted by a trained professional, for example a vet.

You can ask the following to microchip your dog for free:

Battersea Dogs and Cats Home
Blue Cross centres
Dogs Trust
You can also ask your vet or local council if they can microchip your dog. They might charge a fee.

What happens when your dog’s microchipped?

Your dog’s microchip is given a number, which will show up whenever your dog is scanned.

The professional who microchips your dog will also take your contact details.

These details are kept alongside the microchip number on a database, so that your dog can be returned to you if it’s lost or stolen.

You must make sure that your dog is registered on one of the following databases (they all meet government standards):

You should ask for proof a microchip has been fitted before buying a dog.

You can ask to see any of the following as proof:

microchip certificate
vet records
pet passport
You may also be able to see microchip information in the dog’s pet insurance papers.

You must make sure the microchip details are updated once you have bought the dog.

Related content

Caring for pets
Controlling your dog in public
Buying a cat or dog
COVID-19 vaccinations

Book your coronavirus vaccination and booster dose on the NHS website

....... https://www.gov.uk/get-your-dog-microchipped

This is from way back, not long before his death in August 2007, referencing events and declarations from way way way back:

**Abz2000** · 01-05-2022

It's here:

Swedish startup Epicenter unveils rice-sized microchip implant that stores your COVID vaccine passport under your skin and is read with technology used to take contactless payments

By Stacy Liberatore For Dailymail.com
15:45 GMT 20 Dec 2021 , updated 15:45 GMT 20 Dec 2021

Epicenter, a Stockholm-based startup, unveiled a new way of carrying around a COVID vaccine passport – in a microchip implanted under your skin.....

....'Implants are very versatile technology that can be used for many different things, and right now it is very convenient to have COVID passport always accessible on your implant, he said in a statement.....

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...-passport.html

Behemoth (/bɪˈhiːməθ, ˈbiːə-/; Hebrew: בְּהֵמוֹת, bəhēmōṯ) is a beast from the biblical Book of Job, and is a form of the primeval chaos-monster created by God at the beginning of creation; he is paired with the other chaos-monster, Leviathan, and according to later Jewish tradition both would become food for the righteous at the end-time.[1] Metaphorically, the name has come to be used for any extremely large or powerful entity.

The Hebrew word behemoth has the same form as the plural of the Hebrew noun בהמה behemah meaning 'beast', suggesting an augmentative meaning 'great beast'.
However, some theorize that the word might originate from an Egyptian word of the form pꜣ jḥ mw 'the water-ox' meaning 'hippopotamus', altered by folk etymology in Hebrew to resemble behemah.[2] However, this phrase with this meaning is unattested at any stage of Egyptian.[3]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behemoth

....Synonyms for beast
Synonyms
baddie (or baddy), brute, caitiff, devil, evildoer, fiend, heavy, hound, knave, meanie (also meany), miscreant, monster, nazi, no-good, rapscallion, rascal, reprobate, rogue, savage, scalawag (or scallywag), scamp, scapegrace, scoundrel, varlet, villain, wretch.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/beast

We talk about over- and underdeveloped countries; I think a more exact division might be between underdeveloped and overpopulated.
The more people there are, the more industry and more waste and the more sewage there is, and therefore the more pollution.

Address to Edinburgh University Union, Nov. 24 1969.

I just wonder what it would be like to be reincarnated in an animal whose species had been so reduced in numbers than it was in danger of extinction. What would be its feelings toward the human species whose population explosion had denied it somewhere to exist.... I must confess that I am tempted to ask for reincarnation as a particularly deadly virus.

Prince Philip, in his Foreward to If I Were an Animal; United Kingdom, Robin Clark Ltd., 1986.

In the event that I am reincarnated, I would like to return as a deadly virus, in order to contribute something to solve overpopulation.

Reported by Deutsche Press Agentur (DPA), August, 1988

It is now apparent that the ecological pragmatism
of the so-called pagan religions,
such as that of the American Indians, the Polynesians, and the Australian Aborigines,
was a great deal more realistic in terms of conservation ethics than the more intellectual
monotheistic philosophies
of the revealed religions.

Press conference at the National Press Club in Washington, D.C.
on the occasion of the ``Caring for Creation’’ conference of the North American Conference on Religion and Ecology, May 18, 1990.

The object of the WWF is to ``conserve’’ the system as a whole; not to prevent the killing of individual animals. Those who are concerned about their conservation of nature accept that all species are prey to some other species. They accept that most species produce a surplus that is capable of being culled without in any way threatening the survival of the species as a whole.

The Chancellor’s Lecture, Salford University, June 4, 1982.

**CarefulThinker** · 07-08-2022

The book of Revelation is something I have read, more than once, and "the mark of the beast" is something that I have on and off over the years really studied. It is interesting to note the number "666" if one does there research, one will find another number "616" which if I recall correctly, is from an earlier manuscript (read up on Papyrus 115).

The thing is, when I looked into the Greek to see the meanings of the words (I don't fully rely on the English translations), and it alarmed me.

If one does there research, if I recall correctly, there was a period in time, that conspiracy theorists believed vaccinations as being the mark of the beast (this would of been around early 1900s, probably around the period concerning smallpox).

It is interesting however, that ever since the global pandemic with Covid 19, the requirements of people needed to be "vaccinated" so they can go to work and go in public places (and people losing their jobs or unable to get a job for refusal to accept the vaccine, and depending where one lives, can only go to places considered "essential" if unvaccinated), it does make one think.

What is further interesting, if one looked at the side effects mentioned in Revelation 16.2, it sounds like some kind of reaction people will get if they take it. Sounds like some kind of skin infection? Have a google for AIDS/HIV related skin diseases, some of which are quite terrible to look at.

**Murid** · 07-08-2022

Salam alaykum

Maybe an interesting read:
https://www.abuaminaelias.com/dailyh...ood-deeds-six/

Hadith on Signs: Hurry to good before signs of Hour
...

**CarefulThinker** · 07-08-2022

Murid,

The link above it is a interesting read, and I recall reading some material about those six events.

With reference to "the False Messiah", I at times have thought if there can be a connection to the Pharmaceuticals industry? For those who may not be aware, the word "sorceries" as used in the bible, in the Greek it is this word here - pharmakeia. This is where we most likely we get words like Pharmacy, Pharmacists and so on from.

In reference to "the smoke", when I first read it, it made me think of the following - a Nuclear Winter (have a read up on it), it is theoretical, but frightening.

Now the "beast from the earth" is quite interesting because when I read up on it in more detail, it looks like it is a reference to the mark of the beast. When I read it carefully, it looks like it is the non-muslims (i think in this context it refers to the disbelievers/unbelievers ) that will be branded and allowed to take part in society in one way or another.

It is worth reading on something called Quantum Dot Tattoos. What is interesting about this technology is that, it can appear invisible, but if have the right equipment, one would know who has been "marked" with it. Scan using appropriate hardware, one can see who has this Quantum Dot Tattoo and who has not.

Now with the reference to "the rising of the sun from the west", I wonder if this could be the result of a "Pole Shift"?

**Ümit** · 07-11-2022

Originally Posted by CarefulThinker

Murid,

The link above it is a interesting read, and I recall reading some material about those six events.

With reference to "the False Messiah", I at times have thought if there can be a connection to the Pharmaceuticals industry? For those who may not be aware, the word "sorceries" as used in the bible, in the Greek it is this word here - pharmakeia. This is where we most likely we get words like Pharmacy, Pharmacists and so on from.

In reference to "the smoke", when I first read it, it made me think of the following - a Nuclear Winter (have a read up on it), it is theoretical, but frightening.

Now the "beast from the earth" is quite interesting because when I read up on it in more detail, it looks like it is a reference to the mark of the beast. When I read it carefully, it looks like it is the non-muslims (i think in this context it refers to the disbelievers/unbelievers ) that will be branded and allowed to take part in society in one way or another.

It is worth reading on something called Quantum Dot Tattoos. What is interesting about this technology is that, it can appear invisible, but if have the right equipment, one would know who has been "marked" with it. Scan using appropriate hardware, one can see who has this Quantum Dot Tattoo and who has not.

Now with the reference to "the rising of the sun from the west", I wonder if this could be the result of a "Pole Shift"?

No offence, but in my opinion you are thinking too easy about these subjects...there is much more into it if you look at them more closely.

If I may give you an example about the rising sun from the west.
I first thought about it just like you, "maybe a pole shift" although I didn't exactly knew what that meant.
Then one day I stumbled upon this video:

#

If you cannot see the video, just google "spinning T handle in space"
Notice the change in direction as the tool spins in zero gravity.

I immediately thought about it like..."what if that T-handle was Earth...does that mean the Earth can also change direction like that?"

It turned out that the effect causing that phenomenah is called "Dzhanibekov effect" and it only applies on objects that have not a stable rotation on some axis.
So it tuns out the Dzhanibekov effect would NOT cause the Earth to flip poles all of a sudden because Earth has a stable rotation (like a gyroscope)

But it sure was a valuable lesson for me which is:

the laws of nature are complicated...not everything has been discovered yet so there is a lot more to discover out there. There still may be some effect we never discovered before, which Allah can unleash upon Earth as the force that flips the poles of Earth.

Only Allah knows.

**CarefulThinker** · 07-12-2022

Originally Posted by Ümit

I immediately thought about it like..."what if that T-handle was Earth...does that mean the Earth can also change direction like that?"

It turned out that the effect causing that phenomenah is called "Dzhanibekov effect" and it only applies on objects that have not a stable rotation on some axis.
So it tuns out the Dzhanibekov effect would NOT cause the Earth to flip poles all of a sudden because Earth has a stable rotation (like a gyroscope)

But it sure was a valuable lesson for me which is:

the laws of nature are complicated...not everything has been discovered yet so there is a lot more to discover out there. There still may be some effect we never discovered before, which Allah can unleash upon Earth as the force that flips the poles of Earth.

Only Allah knows.

That is interesting. I have never heard of this "Dzhanibekov effect". Definitely going to read up on it.

**Ümit** · 07-12-2022

Originally Posted by CarefulThinker

That is interesting. I have never heard of this "Dzhanibekov effect". Definitely going to read up on it.

You know what the interesting part is?
Do this little experiment if you have a globe at home:
take your globe and spin it in the correct direction.
if you now look at your globe from the north pole, you will see your globe rotating counter clockwise.
now, as your globe still spins and turn it over so that you look at it from the south pole and you will notice that the globe now is rotating in clockwise direction...which means this:
if Earth would flip up side down, but its rotation remains in the same direction (counter clockwise seen from the north pole), then all the star constellations would appear up side down, as if we were looking at the sky from Australia, but the sun would still rise from the east!!

However, in the last part of the video starting from 0:22 seconds, shown in slow motion, you clearly see it spin counter clockwise, then flips direction but unlike your globe still continues in counter clockwise movement.

Which means if the Dzahibekov effect would apply on Earth (most probably not), then it would definitely mean the sun rising from the west.

**Spiritlead** · 07-28-2022

Originally Posted by brucewayne995

... IF the 666 phenomenom was important, do you not think that Allah SWT would have mentioned it in Quran or Hadith/Sunnah. Not one mention, which means its not from Allah or Abbrogated...

Hi Bruce. Can you please explain your belief in "abbrogated scripture" ?

Let's all recite Surah Al-Kahf today!

The authorship of The book of revelation/ The apocalypse of John / Anonymous

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