Al salam aleikom wa rahmut Allah wa barakatoh ,
In the name of Allah all mighty all powerfull , blessing be upon his messangers.
Brother in faith ,
A brother told me about an argument which I found very not easy to refute plus I find it very contridicting to anything I have thought of as a muslim.
In my view of christiniaty , St Paul was the person who brought this new theology which we all know as the trinity into existence . Thus as he has inserted the sign of shirk into the pure religin of Prophet Jesus AS we as muslims are supposed to be critical of his works.
However , in the sura verse (36:14) where Allah AWJ talks about him sending prophets to a certain group of people I was looking through some tafsir and was amazingly shocked me is that Ibn Kathir , Soyouti are actually having the suggestion that they may agree that Paul is the third prophet sent to these people in that verse (i.e. Entakia as a consesus of most scholars) thus giving the credibility of Paul as a messanger.
Now due to the fact that there is not a perfect consesus between scholars among who these messangers were it still does not satisfy me that Ibn Kathir one of the most highly qualified scholards would actually say such a statment not to mention soyouti.
On a personal issue this topic has been bothering me and my faith towards god and towards islam because I trust that this religion is perfect but when I see such highly strong arguments against with stong proofs I lose touch of my strong faith , not to mention that these days there are no people to help you take good information about such misconceptions if they are so.
So brother in faith help me kill the doubt by defeating this claim whether it was true or not.
paul is the one who change the bible and added that jesus(pbuh) is the son of god(NOT) and more untrue imaginary and amazing thoughts that his unique brain can think of. I do not give Paul respect nor anyone who also added wrong claims to the holy bible. Who are they to change god's words!
paul is the one who change the bible and added that jesus(pbuh) is the son of god(NOT) and more untrue imaginary and amazing thoughts that his unique brain can think of. I do not give Paul respect nor anyone who also added wrong claims to the holy bible. Who are they to change god's words!
How could Paul have changed what at that time hadn't even been written?
Well brother Hussein this does not justify what Ibn Kathir wrote.
If you have english tafseer check out verse 36:14 for ibn katheer and you will know what im talking about , anyway I was hoping that someone from this website can help give me evidence information and not subjective opinions.
I maybe harsh in my answer but I dont like the fact that there are so many few muslims brothers who have knowledge.
anyway back to the topic
Al salam aleikom wa rahmut Allah wa barakatoh ,
In the name of Allah all mighty all powerfull , blessing be upon his messangers.
Brother in faith ,
A brother told me about an argument which I found very not easy to refute plus I find it very contridicting to anything I have thought of as a muslim.
In my view of christiniaty , St Paul was the person who brought this new theology which we all know as the trinity into existence . Thus as he has inserted the sign of shirk into the pure religin of Prophet Jesus AS we as muslims are supposed to be critical of his works.
However , in the sura verse (36:14) where Allah AWJ talks about him sending prophets to a certain group of people I was looking through some tafsir and was amazingly shocked me is that Ibn Kathir , Soyouti are actually having the suggestion that they may agree that Paul is the third prophet sent to these people in that verse (i.e. Entakia as a consesus of most scholars) thus giving the credibility of Paul as a messanger.
Now due to the fact that there is not a perfect consesus between scholars among who these messangers were it still does not satisfy me that Ibn Kathir one of the most highly qualified scholards would actually say such a statment not to mention soyouti.
On a personal issue this topic has been bothering me and my faith towards god and towards islam because I trust that this religion is perfect but when I see such highly strong arguments against with stong proofs I lose touch of my strong faith , not to mention that these days there are no people to help you take good information about such misconceptions if they are so.
So brother in faith help me kill the doubt by defeating this claim whether it was true or not.
I think there are some details you are overlooking that need to be resolved.
Look first at what the Qur'an says. Does it contradict the alleged words of Paul?
Are any of us absolutly certain that what we read today as the words of Paul, were the actual words he said?
I can not say if Paul was or was not a Prophet. However, I have not yet seen any of his written words that have been universaly accepted as prophecy.
Well brother Hussein this does not justify what Ibn Kathir wrote.
If you have english tafseer check out verse 36:14 for ibn katheer and you will know what im talking about , anyway I was hoping that someone from this website can help give me evidence information and not subjective opinions.
I maybe harsh in my answer but I dont like the fact that there are so many few muslims brothers who have knowledge.
anyway back to the topic
EDIT: for my incoherency and spelling mistake!
You must also know that if this statement is really true, you have check out the authenticity of the statement, it is very well an opinion and their is no evidence for him being a prophet, but just an opinion, iman khateer opinion is not legally binding to be a the abosulte truth as he is never mentioned in the Quran, or the hadith by name, since he suppose to existed during Jesus(pbuh) time!
Next knowing Paul's (Sauls) history before his change is not a characteristic of any prophets. So their is another reason to be doubtful of him being so.
Next knowing Paul's (Sauls) history before his change is not a characteristic of any prophets. So their is another reason to be doubtful of him being so.
Last edited by Skillganon; 05-20-2006 at 09:28 PM.
I do not see how this would shake your faith, coupe of points:
1.Qu'ran is Furqan, the Criterion, so if Paul were a prophet and we read his work and it contradicts Quran, We use the Criterion, the Pure source and it is clear that something has been added if it differs.
2. People make mistakes, I remember in the Zakir Naik William Campbell, a point was made that one of the Qu'ran Translations said Alexander the Great done something, but this was not in the Quran it was just a view held, by a person, so it does not contradict since Quran never said it. So those scholars could have made a mistake on this, it is best to see what evidences they have.
And so forth,
peace be upon yall
And what strong evidences are people bringing against Islaam, maybe you can mention some akhi,
Anyhow I have just read what claims to be two tafsirs which both dont state Paul, but some of the disciples of Jesus, peace be upon him.
Brother, you have to remember that ibn kathir did mention some weak hadith within his works because the scholars at that time would mention anything that would be useful for the later generations.
But please check this hadith out insha'Allaah:
From Abu Hurayra, may Allah be pleased with him:
The Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said: 'The Prophets are like brothers; they have different mothers but their life transaction is one. I am the closest of all the people to Jesus son of Mary, because there is no other Prophet between him and myself. He will come again, and when you see him, you will recognize him. He is of medium height and his colouring is reddish-white. He will be wearing two garments, and his hair will look wet. He will break the cross, kill the pigs, abolish the jizya and call the people to Islam. During his time, Allah will end every religion and sect other than Islam, and will destroy the Dajjal. Then peace and security will prevail on earth, so that lions will graze with camels, tigers with cattle, and wolves with sheep; children will be able to play with snakes without coming to any harm. Jesus will remain for forty years, then die, and the Muslims will pray for him.'
(It was related by Ibn Hanbal).
So that hadith is mentioning that Rasool Allaah sal Allaahu alayhi waSalam said that there was no prophet in between Prophet 'Eesa [Jesus] (peace be upon him) and Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him.)
So maybe the hadith you read may be da'eef? (weak)
Brother I here are the posts in arabic written by Ibn Kathir , (whom most of us muslims define as a highly qualified scholar ) plus dont forget that he even has a narration for his opinion:
قال ابن جريج عن وهب بن سليمان عن شعيب الجبائي قال: كان اسم الرسولين الأولين شمعون ويوحنا، واسم الثالث بولص"
The third prophet is Bolus (Paul in english) . Now yes someone mentioned that Paul came after jesus AS , however its written in Bible history that Paul went after the decibles preached to Rome. This does not contradicte Biblical history but affirms it , Im surprised than Ibn Kathir posted his name
Second reference is from Al soyouti:
"وأخرج ابن أبي حاتم عن شعيب الجبائي قال: اسم الرسولين اللذين قالا { إذ أرسلنا إليهم اثنين } شمعون. ويوحنا. واسم (الثالث) بولص"
So the main reference to this statment is Shouib Al Jaba'e whom Abe Hatem and Waheb Bin Suliman Narrated.
Now I know not every narration is true however , Ibn Kathir did not mention any other possibility.
And please remember that they dont have to be messengers of god , but messengers of a holy book. Allah knows best
You just confused me. By definition dosen't a Holy Book have to be the word of God? If it is the word of God, does that not make the prophet a Messenger of God? If a Holy Book is not the Word of God, how can a messenger of it be a Prophet?
Brother, you have to realise that the high and famous scholars did mention weak ahadith within their works just for informative purposes. Not all of the sayings that they mention are authentic, and they even mention that with the narration (so the readers don't get confused.)
And at the same time, the hadith which i mentioned to you earlier when our beloved Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him said):
I am the closest of all the people to Jesus son of Mary, because there is no other Prophet between him and myself. (Narrated in Ahmad)
Its proof to show that there was no Prophet after 'Eesa (alayhi Salaam) except Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him.) And Allaah Almighty knows best.
anyhow the Quran speaks of the disciples in good light..
{3:52} When Jesus found Unbelief on their part He said: "Who will be My helpers to (the work of) Allah." Said the disciples: "We are Allah's helpers: We believe in Allah, and do thou bear witness that we are Muslims.
Your source should be the Quran and nothing else, besides wasnt it Constantine who changed the bible? (I graduated from the Dan Brown school of Controversy and BS)
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