Why did jesus live such a similar life to Horus? Was the Bible copying an older story

In honesty I think you will find some of the stories of Jesus peace be upon him are almost identical to other figures in history.

I dont think this is what he is saying, first I dont think he is saying Horus is a prophet.

Did you read the link sis?

Well technically, Jesus' virgin birth is something that is apparent in other people too. I havent raed about this Horous guy but I have read about other 'Crucified Saviours of the World'

The point of this thread is that for some strange reason Jesus lived a near identical life to Horus. Why is that?

Why has the Jesus life story already been told a few thousand years before he was born?

If you read up on the ancient religions of Egypt you will find so many things that have been repeated in later holy books. It’s as if the writers of the bible are retelling the story of Horus but changing a few words here and there.

Both were born of a virgin
Both had foster fathers by the name Joseph
Both had shepherds as birth witnesses
Both have no historical data between the ages 12 – 30 years old
Both were baptised at the age of 30
Both baptisers were beheaded
Both had twelve disciples
Both Walked on water, cast out demons, healed the sick, restored sight to the blind.
Both were crucified (although I’m lead to believe Muslims don’t believe this part of Jesus’ life)

Is this just one big coincidence? Or is it that the bible is just the retelling of Horus?

I don’t think this just concerns Christians as Muslims also believe in Jesus too.

format_quote Originally Posted by IsaAbdullah

In honesty I think you will find some of the stories of Jesus peace be upon him are almost identical to other figures in history.

Indeed, both jesus and Krishna and jesus and buddha are to name just a couple.

Yea I read about this type of stuff before Islam but it is very kinda hard to find, I went to my library and guess what they dont tend to have this type of stuff, so much for unbias literature.

Well J4763,

you see most of the similarities are not between the Muslim concept and those other people.

Such incidences as Jesus fleeing his country at a young age are not spoken about in the Quran or Sunnah, to my knowledge, but it is something in christianity and something I have read is similar to some of those other figures.

Other stuff like baptism, the holy spirit thing, atonment through cruficition, and other stuff, on the majority I have seen is exclusive to Christianity.

Other things such as jesus curing and virgin birth are probably what are in Islam and the similarities, but they could be coincidences, since, other people cured aswell and the virgin birth would be left, but I think that could be a coincidence.

The first thing: what Horus are we talking out?
Horus who was son of Isis and Osiris?
WIKI:
"So it became said that Osiris died, thus being able to be lord of the dead, but his wife, with the magical powers that Isis was believed to possess, resurrected him for long enough to have sex, resulting in the birth of Horus"
-hymmm...seems she wasn't virgin...

"Both had foster fathers by the name Joseph
Both had shepherds as birth witnesses
Both have no historical data between the ages 12 – 30 years old" - he was god. did he had age??? what "historical data" can You find about god's life?

"Both were baptised at the age of 30
Both baptisers were beheaded" baptised??? in Egipt? Baptism is term from christianty but is used here without any note to other religion. Did it had the same theological meaning here and there? The same rite? I doubt. So i wasn't baptism

WIKI: "In Egyptian myth, Horus gained his authority by being anointed by Anubis, who had his own cult, and was regarded as the main anointer; the anointing made Horus into Horus karast (a religious epithet written in Egyptian documents as HR KRST) - embalmed/anointed Horus - in parallel to Jesus becoming Christ by being baptised by John, who had his own followers, and was especially regarded as a baptiser. Worship of Isis, Horus' mother, was a prominent cult, and the proposal that this is the basis of veneration of Mary, and more particularly Marian Iconography, has some merit.
The suggestion of parallels with such myths, however, has frequently gained little traction in the academic community. It is certainly the case that advocates of the Jesus Myth theory citing the parallels are frequently let down by citing dubious sources, choosing to include even ridiculous or implausible parallels, advocating particular theologies to replace Christianity, and using non standard terms (e.g. anup the baptiser rather than Anubis the anointer/embalmer) which others fail to recognise."

"Both baptisers were beheaded" - ANubis beheaded - never heared of that
"Both had twelve disciples" - "There is no evidence that Horus was born of a virgin, that he had twelve disciples, or that he was considered incarnation of God." from the same side you gave link to.

"Both Walked on water, cast out demons, healed the sick, restored sight to the blind." he was god

"Both were crucified " realy no idea what this is about. Horus death? in later piriode of Egiptian religion Osiris and Horus merged together. And this was one of dying-and-resurrecting gods. but still never heared that he was killed on cross... this link states that "Lazarus" may cam from "Osiris" and that Horus resurected him. But if Horus merged with Osiris...? BTW: wasn't that Isis who brought her husbant back to life?

In the end (and this could be instead of whole post): what Horus are we talking about?

n.

I dont know what exact part dusk is getin it from but if u jus look for the Horus thing there is a little paragraph on this:

Horus and Jesus

A connection between Jesus and Horus-Osiris is frequently raised by critics of the historicity of Jesus, who argue that he was a mythical figure (see Jesus-Myth). Superficially, the death and resurrection of Horus-Osiris, and Horus' nature as both the son of Osiris and Osiris himself, appear to be a template for the idea that this occurred in Jesus.

Deeper similarities between Horus and Jesus, which are not at all obvious to those who are not completely familiar with ancient Egyptian mythology and linguistics, have been said by some to mean that certain elements of the story of Jesus were embellishments, which were copied from the Horus as syncretism. Indeed, according to a few more radical scholars, Jesus was copied from Horus wholesale, and made into a Jewish teacher. In particular, it is said that Horus is the basis for the elements assigned to the M Gospel (the bits in Matthew which are not in the Q Gospel or Mark) and the L Gospel (the bits in Luke which are not in the Q gospel or Mark), especially the infancy narratives. Jesus and Horus comparative video http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...&q=naked+truth

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horus#Horus_and_Jesus

format_quote Originally Posted by j4763

Is this just one big coincidence?

i can give you only Christian perspecive on that..

" Myths, Lewis told Tolkien, were "lies and therefore worthless, even though breathed through silver."
"No," Tolkien replied. "They are not lies." Far from being lies they were the best way — sometimes the only way — of conveying truths that would otherwise remain inexpressible. We have come from God, Tolkien argued, and inevitably the myths woven by us, though they contain error, reflect a splintered fragment of the true light, the eternal truth that is with God. Myths may be misguided, but they steer however shakily toward the true harbor, whereas materialistic "progress" leads only to the abyss and the power of evil.
(..)
Building on this philosophy of myth, Tolkien explained to Lewis that the story of Christ was the true myth at the very heart of history and at the very root of reality. Whereas the pagan myths were manifestations of God expressing Himself through the minds of poets, using the images of their "mythopoeia" to reveal fragments of His eternal truth, the true myth of Christ was a manifestation of God expressing Himself through Himself, with Himself, and in Himself. God, in the Incarnation, had revealed Himself as the ultimate poet who was creating reality, the true poem or true myth, in His own image. Thus, in a divinely inspired paradox, myth was revealed as the ultimate realism."
(http://www.catholiceducation.org/art...ts/al0107.html)

in my POV those myth of god born-death-reborn are so kind of precognition, or signs of human yearning of such a god.
All those dying and coming back gods did it it in "mythical time". at the beginig of time. or "outside" of historical time.
Jesus did it (as i believe) on "our". We might argue what year He died..


sorry for such a loooooong post
n.

format_quote Originally Posted by IsaAbdullah

I dont know what exact part dusk is getin it from

- here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus-Myth

Thank you

Sure there seem to be a few similarities, But a lot of them are a "stretch" and there's far more differences opposed to similarities.

To begin, lets take a look at the history of Catholicism how it was formed. and that history begins with Jesus himself (p.b.u.h.). Jesus was not a mythical figure. Whether you believe he was a prophet, or a god, or a common man. It's hard to deny his existence since he was even mentioned in independent scriptures (The ancient Roman writer Tacitus mentions him, he is also mentioned in an ancient Jewish book by Flavius Josephus.)

However there was practically nothing written down about the life of Jesus (p.b.u.h.). Only years later, people start to write the gospels. And those have been transformed over time a lot of times to such an extend that they become unreliable.

Then there's the freemasons. As Christianity came to Egypt, a small sect was created that had both Christian and ancient Egyptian concepts combined. This sect was first allowed in Christianity but in the dark ages when Christianity started with it’s crusade the sect was labelled heretic and was persecuted. The sect had to flee underground, it is the beginning of the freemasons. But from this underground position they didn't just sit and tell each other stories. They seized power by placing members in certain positions throughout history. These many influential people throughout history that were a member of this sect placed references to this sect in honour of it. The dollar bill, the obelisk in Washington, the pyramid in front of the Louvre in France, the obelisk a couple meters away from it. All referring to their ancient Egyptian heritage. Now I think that since the bible has been altered so much, and since the freemasons mixed Catholicism with the ancient Egyptian culture that it is more likely for the fake similarities to have been added afterwards into the factual stories about prophet Jesus (pbuh); rather then one story being a knock off of the other altogether.

This being said, lets look at the similarities in detail. I’ll try providing links as I go along. But obviously I’m unable to provide a link that disputes wild claim since obviously no credible source even mentions those. So in the cases of missing source, I challenge you to bring me source that the wild claim IS true, or at least based on something rather then lies

First your own source states (just below the table with comparisons):
Reactions of Egyptologists:
Ward Gasque, a volunteer book reviewer for Amazon.com surveyed twenty contemporary Egyptologists. He asked them about the origins of Jesus' name, the relationship between Horus and Jesus, whether both experienced a virgin birth, and whether the Egyptian religion considered Hourus to be an incarnation of God.
Ten responded, They agreed:
No similarity in name
Jesus' name is a Greek form of a very common Semitic name Jeshu'a, which is normally translated into English as Joshua.
You don’t have to trust your own source for that, here’s an alternative source:
http://www.christianorigins.com/etymology.html

No similarity in virgin birth, 12 disciples, reincarnation of god
There is no evidence that Horus was born of a virgin, that he had twelve disciples, or that he was considered incarnation of God.
Again don’t trust your own source, I’ll bring some of these up further on.

No similarity in birth date Jesus was not born on 25 dec. The actual birthday is unknown as far as I know. When Catholics concurred northern Europe; in order to convert the Celtics they would have to give up there holiday “Yule” which was a festivity to celebrate the shortest day of the year (latest dawn and earliest dusk). So the Catholics cooked up a birthday celebration of Jesus (p.b.u.h.) to compensate. The similarities between the Celtic belief and the Egyptian was not because one influenced the other, but rather because they both based their religion on the course of the sun.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yule

No similarity in mother’s name
The mother of Jesus was named Mary/Mayram, but contradictory to this table the mother of Horus was actually Isis rather then Meri. Horus emerged from a three grown out of his fathers’ coffin. Isis is considered mother later on as the myth evolves. An alternative birthstory then originated stating that Isis extracted semen from her late husband to empragnate herself. There’s no divine intervention or incarnation. Horus was the physical son of Osiris. Note that Osiris also wasn’t the chief god but a son of Geb, as was Isis a daughter of Geb. And even if there were a similarity here. Jesus never claimed to be the physical son of god. In the bible the children of god is frequently used to refer to pious people as it was custom in the Jewish tradition. The concept of Jesus being part of the trinity was brought up much later from an interpretation of on of the Gospels (Johns If I’m not mistaken).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osiris

No similarity in between Joseph and Seb
Seb is a bad transliteration of Geb. And he was not the foster parent of Horus but his grandfather. The father of Osiris and Isis.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geb

No similarity in birth location
We don’t know where Jesus was born. The story about the stable/cave is debated. But Horus was born from a tree that grew out of Osiris coffin.
http://www.jimloy.com/egypt/osiris.htm

No similar annunciation
The ancient Egyptians didn’t even believe in angels. And Isis impregnated herself with the semen she extracted from her late husband/brother. So why would she need an angel announcing Horus’ birth?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legend_of_Osiris_and_Isis

No similarity between the star Sirius and the star in the bible showing Jesus (pbuh) birth
Sirius was a deity in the Egyptian mythology called sopdeth in the older mythology which later on assimilated with Isis, Horus’ mother. Whether or not there was a star pronouncing Jesus (pbuh) birth is debated
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sopdet

No similarity with shepherds
As far as I know there were no Sheppard witnessing Horus birth. Whether or not there were shepherds witnessing Jesus birth is debated. Wild claim.

No similarities between three kings, and three deities visiting after birth
There weren’t 3 deitys but only 2. Isis herself was the third one.
http://www.earth-history.com/Egypt/L...10summary5.htm

No similar threat
Herut does not appear in ancient Egyptian mythology. The only adversary of Horus was Seth. Wild claim
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horus

No similarities between rite of passage
There is no similarity between the bar witsha ( I don’t even know If Jesus had one) and the recovery of Horus’ eye. Horus’ eye, damaged after battling with Seth actually never recovered!.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horus

No similarity in the break of history in their lifes
Apart from the few events described in mythology, Horus whole life is a big gap. So it’s not like a 12 to 30 year gap, but rather only a few events in his (eternal) life known.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horus

No similarities between baptism in the Eridanus/Jordan river
Horus wasn’t even baptised since it was not a custom. Eridanus is not even a river. It’s a constellation wich according to Greek mythology symbolises a river. Anubis was not a baptiser but a different Deity. He is also a son of Osiris, but the two deitys never met. Horus replaced Annubis as the myth evolved. Actually the erason Horus was considered son of Osiris was because he was he replaced Annubis in the mythology.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anubis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osiris

No similar temptation
Horus wasn’t tempted by Seth, he was attacked physically, they fought. And hours won the battle winning the reign over Egypt.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horus

No similar activities
Jesus (pbuh) stilled the sea in a singular event to save people from drowning according to the bible. Horus didn’t still the Nile, in stead Horus constantly made sure that the Nile flooded to fertilise the land. Horus didn’t cast demons out possessing humans, he fought physical demons. I’ve found no case of Horus restoring the blind, in fact he could not even heal his own eye.

No similar raising of death
Horus did not raise his father out of the grave. Isis did that prior to Horus birth. There seem to be some claims about an annual festivity in which worshippers enacted the resurrection of Osiris but he never actually got resurrected, and I doubt the source.

No Simular death
Horus was a living deity, no crucifixion, no thieves with similar destiny, no Burial, no afterlife, no resurrection. Those are all wild claims.

No similar nature
Horus was not half man but born only by deity’s. Horus although good in nature was not considered the savior of mankind, he was not titled the anointed or KRST, he is not commonly portrayed as child held by his mother. He is not associated with pices. He was a deity with the head of an eagle. He did not have similar title’s such as the lamb of God or the savior. Those are all wild claims

No similar preaching
Horus was not a preaching God. He did not have scriptures.. Those citations are inventions. There are no books or gospels. Only drawings on walls which leave a lot of room for interpretation. The reason The myths evolved so much was because they were not written down. When they wanted details about religion they went to the pharaoh who was spokesmen for the Gods and he had different political agenda’s rather then playing Shepard an feeding the hungry. And as long as the Nile kept flooding, it was believed that the Gods were happy with the pharaoh and thus the people trusted the pharaoh as spokesmen.

It seems the further down on the list we go, the wilder the claims. I guess that the y expect that by here you’re either tired of looking it up or convinced by their lies.

Similarities between Jesus and Mithra (Persian God and Roman armies' patron):

1) Both born on the 25th December
2) Both visited by Sheperds and Magi by bearing gifts
3) Both mothers are mortal virgins
4) Both performed miracles raising the dead, healing the sick, making the blind see and casting out devils.
5) Mithra had last supper with 12 disciples
6) In memory, Mithra's worshippers partook a a sacremental bread marked with cross

I've took it from mithraism in wikipedia.