Well the reason I decided to make this topic is because whenever Muslims tell Christians that the Bible is changed, altered etc. Christians always demand proof, well here is the proof we've been waiting for:
Quotes From Bible Scholars Claiming The Bible Has Been ‘Altered’
The NT was written by Christians for Christians ; it was moreover written in Greek for Greek-speaking communities, and the style of writing (with the exception, possibly, of the Apocalypse) was that of current literary composition. There has been no real break in the continuity of the Greek-speaking Church and we find accordingly that few real blunders of writing are met with in the leading types of the extant texts. This state of things has not prevented variations ; but they are not for the most part accidental. An overwhelming majority of the 'various readings' of the MSS of the NT were from the very first intentional alterations. The NT in very early times had no canonical authority, and alterations and additions were actually made where they seemed improvements
(Encyclopedia Biblica (Vol. 4. p. 4980)
also proof that:
Mark 16:9-20 Is a Fabrication!
The oldest Bible we possess today, Codex Sinaiticus, which contains both Old and New Testaments does not conatin Mark 16:9-20 infact, it stops at Mark 16:8 :
The scribe who brought Mark's Gospel to an end in Codex Sinaiticus had no doubt that it finished at chapter 16, verse 8. He underlined the text with a fine artistic squiggle, and wrote, "The Gospel according to Mark." Immediately following begins the Gospel of Luke
salams bro quran.. personally i dont think we should get bogged down in these lil things, there's a fair bit of other inaccuracies that exist... the biggest being the treatment the bible gives to the prophets.
Post the verse where it refers to a 'circle' and I will look up the hebrew of the verse and see.
Isaiah 40:22 Have you not known? Have you not heard? Has it not been told you from the beginning? Have you not understood from the foundations of the earth? 22 It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.
Isaiah 40:22 Have you not known? Have you not heard? Has it not been told you from the beginning? Have you not understood from the foundations of the earth? 22 It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.
The word for circle here is Galgal. This can also be translated as 'sphere' or 'cycle' but in reality there is no definition for what it means in english. I will try to explain it, but I am not a native born Hebrew speaker therefore I am sometimes lost because I identify things as English first. Maybe Lavi can help us.
But the word closest to it is Gilgel which means to "revolve".
The phrase "the 4 corners of the earth" is a common phrase in english.
It does not mean the eath is flat. It means "everywhere on earth including remote places".
"Knock on wood" is another phrase. But has nothing to do with wood.
the Bible wasn't originally written in modern English. It was translated from Ancient Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic, which of course you know as well as I do. In Ancient Greek and Hebrew, it is quite probable that this is literal.
Both the Ancient Egyptians and Greeks were well advanced in Astronomy and all indictions the math they used was based on knowledge that the Earth was a sphere. Much of that knowledge was lost during the fall of both civilizations.
We do believe that both the Torah and the Bible were changed, but that does not mean that they are totaly devoid of truth. There are things in both that the Qur'an is in agreement with. We should not be surprised that some things in them are true. They both contain some of the truth, just not the entire truth.
Post the verse where it refers to a 'circle' and I will look up the hebrew of the verse and see.
First of all, the Bible says that the Earth had "edges," which is complete plagiarization of Greek astronomers (Notice I'm not referring to Torah since I do not know Hebrew).
take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it (Job 38:12-13)
The earth takes shape like clay under a seal." (Job 38:14)
Job 38:13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?
The tree grew large and strong and its top touched the sky; it was visible to the ends of the earth. Daniel 4:11
Now, to answer your question, here are the verses:
Is. 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in...
The Bible also promotes the idea of a geocentric universe, but I'll get to that later
the Bible wasn't originally written in modern English. It was translated from Ancient Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic, which of course you know as well as I do. In Ancient Greek and Hebrew, it is quite probable that this is literal.
Actually that is wrong. Refering to the 4 sides of the earth in hebrew means to come from all angles and all sides. (north, south, east, west) but nice try.
Peace be upon those who follow Truth when it is Shown.
My Humble proof that the Bible has been changed altarted, but more over, my proof that God is not protecting it, thus any change big or small can happen is that:
Jehoiachin the 8 or 18 year old King?
2 Kings 24:8
8Jehoiachin was eighteen years old when he began to reign, and he reigned in Jerusalem three months. And his mother's name was Nehushta, the daughter of Elnathan of Jerusalem.
2 Chronicles 36:9
9Jehoiachin was eight years old when he began to reign, and he reigned three months and ten days in Jerusalem: and he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD.
I don't think you can say to a person, 'your Bible is curropt because your Prophet slept with his daughters'
They will just tell you, nah the Bible is right, it really happend.
the question is, why would anyone in their rightmind follow such people if that really happened! seriously, would you let your kids hangout with a pedophile just because he claims his a prophet ffended:
Actually that is wrong. Refering to the 4 sides of the earth in hebrew means to come from all angles and all sides. (north, south, east, west) but nice try.
Peace to you:
Actually, then it would make more sense to say in all directions....not sides, as the term "sides" does not imply a round or oval shape...quite the contrary. The use of these words, "sides", "flat", etc., in the bible would make sense as that was the belief of the people in those times....and for many centuries later. When using the term "like a tent", it also implies a flat surface...ie: the floor of the tent which signifies the earth, is flat, with sides that go up so you don't fall off. Reminds me of a dome shape object with a flat bottom and a lid. In any case...in my opinion, it reflects what man believed then and wrote about rather than what God actually created.
Peace,
Hana
"Whoever is deprived of gentleness is deprived of all good" (Sahîh Muslim, Sunan Abî Dawûd)
The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen, nor touched...but are felt in the heart.
-Helen Keller
Muslim mistake: That God’s approach with Jesus and God’s approach with Mohammad was the same.
Spot on! God speaks every language and to all people. The trouble appears to be with humanity. For some odd reason HUMANS prefer to see themselves differently... they're not very hot on the idea of oneness. This is obvious in the lineage of Abraham. All the different books order the people to honor their parents and ancestors. What Adam saw, if you will, can only be seen by looking back through the eyes of the generations before us, all of them.
This law however, is seldom obeyed. The consequence? I've read on this forum that Jews don't consider themselves as related to Muslims because they identify with Moses who founded Judaism. I HATED hearing that! Without Abraham, there would be no Moses. Without Abraham, there would be no Mohammed. And finally, without Babylon, there would be no Abraham.
I don't give a rats tail about how people practice their different traditions. If they ALL worship God and they all follow the same laws, the differences are nothing more than window dressing. Some people like blue curtains in their holy places and some people like purple. Some people talk in different languages and use different names. So what? They all MEAN the same thing!
Think of what it takes to build a working community. You have to have a variety of different talents. You'd need doctors and lawyers. But you'd also need butchers and sanitation workers. To have a perfect community, there has to be mutual respect for each other's place and position in the whole of the community. Doctors are important, sure. But they're not more important that butchers because without them, people would starve to death. My point is, they ALL contribute to the whole. Doctors aren't "better-than" butchers and if the community makes them feel they aren't appreciated, they'll leave and that community will go hungry.
On the level of the spirit, it is no different. The books were corrupted because of the above. I remember, from somewhere in my mind, that there was only one book to start with. But there was a big fight (like above) over what words were more important and the book has been torn to shreds. Each of you have what you feel are the more important pieces of it. Parts that were important to different people in different ways, or maybe just all they could remember of it. To me, it looks like a giant jig-saw puzzle now with all it's different pieces scattered all around me. When I see a conflict, that just tells me those two pieces don't fit together. But they each belong somewhere. You can't just throw one of them away. If you keep doing that, we'll never see the pretty picture those puzzle pieces make up in the end.
The trick is to remember where we all came from. Every generation is equally important. It's OK to have favorites... so long as you keep in mind those favorites came from other generations before them (they didn't just fall from the sky), and those generatons are every bit as important. The book can be repaired... but only if the people want to see it. So far, that's the part that's giving me a real nasty head-ache.
Ninth Scribe
Last edited by Ninth_Scribe; 09-11-2006 at 07:02 PM.
Actually that is wrong. Refering to the 4 sides of the earth in hebrew means to come from all angles and all sides. (north, south, east, west) but nice try.
I wasn't "trying" anything. Just pointing out that we cannot basic a semantical arguement off of a translation. And that may be true, but there are "4 corner" references in the New Testament as well, which is in Greek and Aramaic. Not Hebrew. Salaam.
I wasn't "trying" anything. Just pointing out that we cannot basic a semantical arguement off of a translation. And that may be true, but there are "4 corner" references in the New Testament as well, which is in Greek and Aramaic. Not Hebrew. Salaam.
Hebrew is based on Aramaic. Therefore the meaning of the language is very similar.
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