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  1. #1
    QuranStudy's Avatar
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    Early Christianity + Paganism = Modern Christianity

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    Interesting read on how Christianity evolved:

    http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa1.htm

    It's a huge article, but here are the main headings:

    Similarities between Paganism and Christianity

    Reasons for the similarities

    My comments: The most reasonable reasons seems to be the Christianity copied pagan rituals. Another theory was that Satan did it to decieve. If that is indeed the case, then almost all Christians are under influence of Satan, as evident through paganist rituals during Christmas, Easter, and other holy events. Another good reason is that Christians found paganistic rituals as the literal truth. This idea is gaining widespread popularity. However, under historical evidence, a good reason may be forgery, where this "god-man" theory has become a hoax. From my understanding, there were numerous individuals before Christ who claimed divinity.

    Implications of the similarities

    My comments: Conservative Christians in the Middle East and other holy regions (the minority) consider the Bible as the one and only truth and completely disregard paganistc rituals. Some theorists claim that "miracles" such as the virgin birth, miraculous healings, crucifixion, ascension etc. were all paganistic ideas during Christ's time. Thus many of the Christian beliefs are not original. Personally, I find Christianity as paganism with a monotheistic god-man/man-god.

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    QuranStudy's Avatar
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    Re: Early Christianity + Paganism = Modern Christianity

    Is Trinity a pagan idea as well stolen by Christians?

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    Re: Early Christianity + Paganism = Modern Christianity

    There are some sites that also say "Allah" was an ancient pagan moon god since we are all believing what we read on the internet these days!
    Early Christianity + Paganism = Modern Christianity


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    Re: Early Christianity + Paganism = Modern Christianity

    There are some sites that also say "Allah" was an ancient pagan moon god since we are all believing what we read on the internet these days
    Well, the Quran outright rejects the idea. The Quran itself says the God of Jews and Christians is the same God for Muslims.

    btw, my source is credible The blend of Christianity and Paganism is an historical fact.

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    Re: Early Christianity + Paganism = Modern Christianity

    But the Bible says the G-d of the Jews is the one they worship to, is it not?
    Early Christianity + Paganism = Modern Christianity


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    Re: Early Christianity + Paganism = Modern Christianity

    But the Bible says the G-d of the Jews is the one they worship to, is it not?
    Yes, we also believe in one God. That is why the Trinity confuses me since Christians claim to believe in one God as well. Divinifying a man makes things more complicated.

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    Re: Early Christianity + Paganism = Modern Christianity

    Quote Originally Posted by QuranStudy View Post
    Yes, we also believe in one God. That is why the Trinity confuses me since Christians claim to believe in one God as well. Divinifying a man makes things more complicated.
    It's not a difficult concept; three aspects of the same thing, not three Gods.

    On the main point you are quite correct (although its hardly news). Evolving Christianity certainly absorbed influences from all the cultures with which it came into contact, including religious elements. Exactly the same is true of every other "great religion". Indeed, those of us who believe that the Qur'an is the work of man and not God would say Islam is the ultimate example of that, being to a large extent a mish-mash of what had come before. I wouldn't expect you to accept that, of course!!

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    Re: Early Christianity + Paganism = Modern Christianity

    We can accept that if it were true... Islam has brought forth much that wasn't even mentioned in the previous scriptures... we can discuss examples if you'd like...
    Early Christianity + Paganism = Modern Christianity

    Text without context is pretext
    If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him


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    QuranStudy's Avatar
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    Re: Early Christianity + Paganism = Modern Christianity

    It's not a difficult concept; three aspects of the same thing, not three Gods.
    That leaves alot more confusing questions. For instance, why did Jesus have to be born if he's God? The Bible clearly claims that pregnancy is a punishment mandated by God to women. As questions become more complicated, there are also Biblical verses that differentiate between Jesus and God. It's not as easy as one may think.

    Exactly the same is true of every other "great religion". Indeed, those of us who believe that the Qur'an is the work of man and not God would say Islam is the ultimate example of that, being to a large extent a mish-mash of what had come before. I wouldn't expect you to accept that, of course!!
    No religion other than Christianity stole ideas/rituals from paganism. Please do not diminish other faiths by claiming otherwise.

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    Re: Early Christianity + Paganism = Modern Christianity

    Please do not diminish other faiths by claiming otherwise.
    So only diminish Christianity?

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    Re: Early Christianity + Paganism = Modern Christianity

    No religion other than Christianity stole ideas/rituals from paganism. Please do not diminish other faiths by claiming otherwise.
    Can you please tell me what was going on in Mecca in that area where you pray, before islam?

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    Re: Early Christianity + Paganism = Modern Christianity

    So only diminish Christianity?
    Isn't it true that Christianity blended with pagan ritual??

    Can you please tell me what was going on in Mecca in that area where you pray, before islam?
    Paganism?? Key word :BEFORE Islam. The Quran denounces paganism and anything associated with it. I'm not too sure about Judaism.
    Last edited by QuranStudy; 09-06-2006 at 07:39 PM.

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    Re: Early Christianity + Paganism = Modern Christianity

    Quote Originally Posted by therebbe View Post
    Can you please tell me what was going on in Mecca in that area where you pray, before islam?
    Mecca is home to the first house of worship of God, the Kaaba, said to have been built by the prophet Abraham and his son Ishmael....... you can check it out on http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...s/beliefs.html
    not a Muslim website... then pagans went there... but not for long... it is again the house of the one and only God.....
    Early Christianity + Paganism = Modern Christianity

    Text without context is pretext
    If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him


  17. #14
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    Re: Early Christianity + Paganism = Modern Christianity

    It it not true that Christianity blended with pagan ritual??
    Yes, anyone that has studied religion knows that. But it is not the only one. All do. It is just that some don't recognize it.

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    Re: Early Christianity + Paganism = Modern Christianity

    I'm not too sure about Judaism.
    Oh and why is that? Please elaborate.

    Maybe one of your reasons is because we yell out every day twice:

    Hear O' Israel the L-rd is our G-d the L-rd is One!

    Or was it that we were the monotheists that you are having second thoughts?

    I'm going to have a field day with this one.

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    Re: Early Christianity + Paganism = Modern Christianity


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    Re: Early Christianity + Paganism = Modern Christianity

    Quote Originally Posted by QuranStudy View Post
    Again, since a Jew is no longer a Jew when he denounces Monotheism how is Judaism not Monotheistic? Please elborate further with your own thoughts not a hate website, or something about the golden calf especially since we were not "Jews" yet until after we recieved the Torah so in reality the people who had the calf were not even Jews, but from the tribe of "Hebrews"

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    Re: Early Christianity + Paganism = Modern Christianity

    Again, since a Jew is no longer a Jew when he denounces Monotheism how is Judaism not Monotheistic? Please elborate further with your own thoughts not a hate website, or something about the golden calf especially since we were not "Jews" yet until after we recieved the Torah so in reality the people who had the calf were not even Jews, but from the tribe of "Hebrews"
    Okay, that's understandable. I realize the Golden Calf isnt really part of Jewish custom.

  23. #19
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    May Allah have mercy on him رحمة الله عليه

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    Re: Early Christianity + Paganism = Modern Christianity

    [QUOTE=QuranStudy;47921
    No religion other than Christianity stole ideas/rituals from paganism. Please do not diminish other faiths by claiming otherwise.[/QUOTE]

    Interesting thought but perhaps need some clarification. By definition all religions except for the Abrahamic Montheistic religions would be classiefied as Pagan religions, so only 3 religions (Judaism,Christianity and Islam) could be accused of stealing from Paganism. I can agree that Christianity did incorporate many Pagan beliefs and still continues to do so. However, I believe what we will find more common are pagan beliefs that have stolen concepts from the Abrahamic beliefs and some of those are difficult for an outsider to distinguish from an Abrahamic Belief stealing pagan ideas or a Pagan religion stealing Abrahamic Beliefs. As a result an outsider could easily come to the conclusion that all three Abrahamic religions stole Pagan beliefs. For clarity perhaps your statment would be better understood as:

    No Abrahamic religion other than Christianity stole ideas/rituals from paganism. Please do not diminish other faiths by claiming otherwise.
    Early Christianity + Paganism = Modern Christianity




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    Re: Early Christianity + Paganism = Modern Christianity

    Quote Originally Posted by QuranStudy View Post
    Interesting read on how Christianity evolved:

    http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa1.htm
    .
    Thanks for the links, QuranStudy. Very interesting.

    I wrote a lengthy post this morning, which took me ages - just to be zapped by the computer at the last minute! Aarrggghh ....

    Some of the issues in the article you provided I cannot comment on, but these are a few comments I would like to make :

    Jesus as the sacrificial lamb is a direct reference to the old Jewish custom of sacrificing animals as atonement of sin. That's exactly what Jesus did: paid for our sins, once and for all!

    As for baptism and the sharing of bread and wine, these are things done in direct reference to and following the example of Jesus.
    Jesus saying and doing certain things gives Christians the assurance that they have his divine authority - hence any similarities to other practices seem quite irrelevant.

    I do however agree that there are pagan influences in Christianity.
    As far as I understand a mixing in of pagan elements was largely allowed or even introduced by church leaders in the past to entice, coax or force non-believers into the Christian faith.
    If you ask me, that's a sad demonstration of how not to spread the Gospel!
    The message of Jesus cannot be spread by force, persuasion or trickery - but only by encouraging people to open their hearts to it, and by letting the Holy Spirit do the rest!

    The amazing thing, however, is despite all this the message of Jesus Christ lives on.
    Despite pagan influences, the rise of secularism and the emergence of other religions, the Gospel prevails and continues to touch people's hearts some 2000 years after Jesus lived his earthly life.


    Peace.
    Early Christianity + Paganism = Modern Christianity

    Peace
    glo

    Here I stand.
    I can do no other.
    May God help me.
    Amen.

    Come, let us worship and bow down •
    and kneel before the Lord our Maker

    [Psalm 95]



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