I don't understand why anyone would love their enemy. Can some Christians explain the wisdom behind this?
Isn't it asking too much of people to love their enemy, someone who they are naturally inclined to hate, for example, because they murdered their loved ones, are oppressive or something?
Wouldn't it just be enough to treat them with justice, with out having to love them?
I saw on the news a story about a Church with a big sign saying "Jesus loves Osama". What do you make of that?
I don't know about Osoma.
..but I do get "Jesus loves you" in some forums.
I reply: I know, he loves me for being a muslim.
I can't remember the passage, "even the sinner lends to each other" or something. Their is a parable. I can understand what it suppose to mean.
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I take the christians (Bush and cohort) should remind themselve or be reminded by others before bombing people to death. I apologise for getting "Worldly Affairs" involved.
Last edited by Skillganon; 02-01-2007 at 02:51 AM.
Here is the passage:
Luke 6:34-36 (New International Version)
34And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' lend to 'sinners,' expecting to be repaid in full. 35But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. 36Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful
The message of Jesus Christ is the answer why. His was a message of love and peace, even to those who wish to do you harm. Granted, this message is hard to accept by man, and has been ignored more often than not. However, this early message was fully accepted by early Christians, even when being fed to lions for Roman entertainment.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
I don't understand why anyone would love their enemy. Can some Christians explain the wisdom behind this?
Isn't it asking too much of people to love their enemy, someone who they are naturally inclined to hate, for example, because they murdered their loved ones, are oppressive or something?
Wouldn't it just be enough to treat them with justice, with out having to love them?
I saw on the news a story about a Church with a big sign saying "Jesus loves Osama". What do you make of that?
The reason we are to love our enemies is that our love is more likely to win them to God than our judgement.
1 John 4:10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.
I know Jesus loves Osama. If Osama loved Jesus, his life would change dramatically.
First, I think it would help if we properly understand the meaning of enemy. By enemy I don't mean someone who you dislike just because you do not get along with them, I understand it to mean people who are deserving of our enmity, such as criminals who show no remorse at all for their crimes (murders, rapists etc), and oppressors who also show no remorse. People who harm you (in smaller ways than major crimes) out of ignorance or just sheer stupidity do not necessary count as enemies.
I don't understand why, or how, anyone can love someone who oppressed them, and committed injustices against them, while they are still committing acts of evil and injustice. It is a natural part of humans to feel hatred towards such people.
However, this does not mean we should react with injustice also, but we should do what is in our power to establish justice against them, and if they ask for forgiveness sincerely, accept there apology.
The link you gave showed that many of the people who committed horrible crimes against Muslims, such as chewing on the liver of a Muslim who had died in war, where granted forgiveness when they became Muslims, since it showed that they had abandoned their previous acts of evil. Hence, they are no longer enemies, and should not be treated as such.
Just because one doesn't love their enemy, doesn't mean they won't treat them with justice, manners etc.
The link you gave, though it demonstrates that the Prophet was extremely forgiving of wrongs against himself, demonstrated great mercy and treated everyone, even his enemies with justice, it does not show that he loved his enemies while they were in the state of evil. I personally like to think that the Prophets approach is both practical and realistic, while also demonstrating very high moral standards.
Love itself is an emotion of the heart is very hard to control, and to ask someone to love a person, who for example, raped her, and continued to show no remorse for his action and would do it again, is very unrealistic...
Also, it would be nice if one of our Christian members could explain what they mean by love? It is almost as if I think you mean that a rape victim should go up to her oppressor and give him a hug and a present because she 'loves' him, even though he would harm her again if he could...
Isn't it asking too much of people to love their enemy, someone who they are naturally inclined to hate, for example, because they murdered their loved ones, are oppressive or something?
If I can just pose one further problem with this question,
Suppose you had two sons whom you loved, and one killed the other, what then.
malaikah i heard from ahmed deedat that when Musa AS came he was waaaay too strict, ie he wouldnt take nothing from no-one lol, and that kept going on and on till the time of Eesa AS and Eesa AS was waaay too leniant, ie he would take anything from anyone, and this kept going on and on till Muhammad saws came and he would take what he can and fight back where needed for justice.
Hope that helps, it didnt help me at all
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My tears testify that i have a heart
yet i feel me and shaytan never part
-
I just remembered a very good, relevant verse from that Quran... something like Allah swt is giving advice about how to deal with an 'enemy' (not literally an enemy but someone who you have a dispute with- enemy is a very strong word), treating them in a certain nice way and then you will become like close friends??
Christians are supposed to love their enemies, because Jesus instructed us to do so.
I specifically say 'are supposed to', because I think it is near impossible for most human beings to fulfill Jesus instructions:
"But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Do to others as you would have them do to you. "If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' love those who love them. And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' do that. And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' lend to 'sinners,' expecting to be repaid in full. But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful."
(Luke 6:27-36)
Given the Christian concept that 'all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God' (Romans 3:23) and that without God's grace none of us would ever be 'good enough' to come into God's presence, I don't think Jesus meant these instructions as laws which we have to follow to earn God's favour. Instead they are attitudes and ways of life we, as his followers, should aim for and aspire to.
I am sure, Christians do that with varying degrees of success ... and most of us probably fare pretty badly!
But Jesus himself demonstrated that kind of love to us! I would like ask the mods to allow the following statement (even if it may be perceived as offensive to some), as a clear Christian and Biblical perspective. I mean no offense to my Muslim brothers and sisters with reagrds to their prophet Eesa.
According to the Biblical account of Jesus' arrest and his death, he suffered at the hands of his enemies, just as he mentioned in the above verses:
He was beaten, he was stripped of his cloak, he was ridiculed, and in the end he died on the cross. And his reaction to the abuse he suffered, mirrors the above verses very clearly:
The Bible says that Jesus could have called on legions of angels to rescue him, but he did not. Neither did he fight backor defend himself. And one of his last sentences he spoke on the cross was one of forgiveness for those who had put him there.
So, to put it simply, Christians (should) love their enemies, because they follow Jesus' example and instructions.
peace
Peace glo
Here I stand.
I can do no other.
May God help me.
Amen.
Come, let us worship and bow down •
and kneel before the Lord our Maker
[Psalm 95]
I think glo has given a good explanation how Jesus practiced what he preached in loving your enemy.
You have brought up so many aspects of loving your enemy, maybe if we could start off by trying to define justice in all cases and all cultures.
I think if mankind knew all the facts and understood justice there would be peace on Earth, but we each have a different understanding, and we lack all the facts. If you put a hundred Muslims together there will be many interpretations of justice, likewise with all other world views. If you put a hundred Christians together they would have many ways of how to deal with injustice, so would a hundred Chinese, or American or Saudi citizens
If a hundred judges presided over the same complicated case that had some grey issues. After hearing all the evidence they each went away to make judgements independently of each other. Would they all come back with the same fair and just conclusion based on truth, or would there be differences of opinion because their judgement is based on a certain amount of ignorance, unlike God they do not know all the facts.
Then on a bigger scale did Iraq have a just cause to invade Kuwait? Which side if any was just in the Iraq and Iran conflict? Did America and Britain have a just cause to invade Iraq after 9 / 11? How do all the victims and their families find justice after these conflicts end? The victorious side in any conflict are unlikely to offer real justice to the working man and his family.
Supposing you are a Muslim mother with two Muslim sons Cain and Able, you love both of them equally. Your son Cain kills his brother Able because Able had committed adultery with his wife but he is sorry after.
Same scenario again when Cain kills his brother, but he says he is not sorry because Able deserved to die for committing adultery with his wife.
What if your son was murdered and there were no witnesses and the killer left no evidence for the police to follow up. You had your suspicions who was responsible but there was no proof. How do you live the rest of your life not knowing for sure, but still needing justice to be served?
I haven’t asked you all these question in the hope that you will answer each one. Rather I would like to try and understand how just do you think mankind can be with their limited knowledge in every case?
Some say that loving your enemy is against human nature, and some Christians will agree with you, yet God still asked us or rather demanded that we do that according to some.
Also, again, I think since the bible is open to interpretation it would be interesting to see what this 'love thy enemy' could mean. I think if one restricts himself to just a presumption of the character of the Jesus of the Gospels then one will see his statements in a particular way, but if one tries to cancel the presumption then maybe, he might be objective enough to see a different side.
Just for the record someone correct me if I am wrong but the words of forgiveness are a later addition?
34Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing."[a] And they divided up his clothes by casting lots.
a. Luke 23:34 Some early manuscripts do not have this sentence.
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