A Message To The Non-Muslims After which they are not Excused by Ignorance
Bismillaahir Rahmaanir Raheem
Dear Reader,
The purpose of this message is to invite you to think of and contemplate about the real purpose of your life on this earth and where you will end up in the Hereafter. Will you end up in Paradise or in Hell-Fire? Please, take note, that when you have read this message, you are considered to have legislatively been given proof and been informed of the admonition of all messengers, and after which you will not be excused by ignorance:
Take note that Allah the Almighty is the One and Only God. He is Eternal. He is Absolute. He has not begotten and has not been begotten and no one is like Him.
Allah says: “Say: He is Allah, the One; Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; and there is none like unto Him.” Surah No.112, Verses 1-4.
Allah says: “He is the Creator of the heavens and the earth: He has made for you pairs from among cattle: by this means does He multiply you: there is nothing whatever like unto Him, and He is the One that hears and sees.” Surah No. 42, Verse No. 11.
Learn that Allah the Almighty is the Creator of all creatures. There is no god for this universe and what it holds but Allah.
Allah says:“Allah is the Creator Of all things, and He is the Guardian and Disposer of all affairs.” Surah No.39 Verse 62.
Allah says: “Such is Allah, your Lord, The Creator of all things, there is no god but He: Then how you are deluded away from the Truth!” Surah No.40, Verse No.62.
Allah says:“To Allah belongs all that is in the heavens and earth: To Allah do all matters return.” Surah No.3 Verse No. 109.
Be informed that Allah the Almighty has created you for one single purpose which is to worship Him alone.
Allah says:“I have only created Jinns and men, that they may serve Me”. Surah No.51 Verse No. 56.
Allah says:“And they have been commanded no more than this: To worship Allah, offering Him sincere devotion, being true (in faith); to establish regular prayer; and to give zakat (i.e. charity given to the needy); and that is the Religion Right and Straight”. Surah No.98, Verse No. 5.
Understand that it is out of sincerity and purity of worship to Allah to avoid worshipping the created whoever and whatever they may be.
Allah says:“Certainly they disbelieve who say: “(Allah) is Christ the son of Mary." But said Christ: "O Children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.” Whoever joins other gods with Allah, - Allah will forbid him the Garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help.” Surah No. 5, Verse No. 72.
Allah says:“Say: "I do no more than invoke my Lord, and I join not with Him any (false god).” Surah No 72, Verse No. 20.
Allah says:“Say: "I am but a man like yourselves, (but) the inspiration has come to me, that your God is one God: whoever expects to meet his Lord, let him work righteousness, and, in the worship of his Lord, admit no one as partner.” Surah No. 18, Verse No. 110.
Allah says:“Those to whom We have given the Book rejoice at what hath been revealed unto thee: but there are among the clans those who reject a part thereof. Say: "I am commanded to worship Allah, and not to join partners with Him. Unto Him do I call, and unto Him is my return.” Surah No. 13, Verse No. 36.
Learn that he, who worships Allah joining with Him another whoever or whatever it may be, has associated partners with Allah and consequently his deeds will turn fruitless and he will be among the losers.
Allah says:“But it has already been revealed to thee, - as it was to those before thee, - “if thou wert to join (gods with Allah), truly fruitless will be thy work (in life), and thou wilt surely be among the losers.” Surah No. 29, Verse No. 65.
Allah says: “This is the Guidance of Allah: He giveth that guidance to whom He pleaseth, of His servants if they were to join other gods with Him, all that they did would be vain for them.” Surah No. 6, Verse No.88.
Take note that Allah the Almighty sent all Prophets and Messengers to reinforce and remind people that there is no god but Allah. That is nothing is worthy of being worshipped but Allah.
Allah says: “For we assuredly sent amongst every people a Messenger, (with the command), “serve Allah, and eschew Evil”: of the people were some whom Allah guided, and some on whom Error became inevitably (established). So travel through the earth, and see what was the end of those who denied (the Truth).” Surah No.16, Verse No. 36.
Allah says: “Not a messenger did We send before thee without this inspiration sent by Us to him: that there is no god but I; therefore worship and serve Me.” Surah 21 Verse 25. There is no prophet who said to his people but: “We sent Noah to his people. He said: “O my people! Worship Allah! Ye have no other god but Him. I fear for you the Punishment of a dreadful Day!” Surah No. 7, Verse No. 59.
Be informed that having faith and believing in all Prophets and Messengers is a must. If anyone rejects faith or doesn’t believe one Prophet or Messenger of Allah’s the Almighty, they are rejecting faith in Allah and disbelieving Him and all His Prophets and Messengers.
Allah says: “The Messenger believeth in what hath been revealed to him from his Lord, as do the men of faith, each one (of them) believeth in Allah, His angels, His books, and His Messengers. “We make no distinction (they say) between one and another of his Messengers.” And they say: “We hear, and we obey: (we seek) Thy forgiveness, our Lord, and to Thee is the end of all journeys.” Surah No. 2, Verse No. 285.
Allah says:“‘Verily it has been revealed to us that the Chastisement (awaits) those who reject and turn away.” Surah No. 20, Verse No. 48.
Allah says:“And who does more wrong than he who invents a lie against Allah or rejects the Truth when it reaches him? Is there not a home in Hell for those who reject Faith?” Surah No.29, Verse No. 68.
Allah says:“Those who reject the Book and the (revelations) with which we sent Our messengers: but soon shall they know.” Surah No. 40, Verse No. 70.
Be informed that Muhammad bin Abudullah bin Abdullmutalib (Peace and Blessings of Allah Be Upon Him) (PBBUH ) is the Messenger of Allah, who was sent by Allah as mercy to the worlds, giving glad tidings and warnings and that he is the seal of all Prophets and messengers and there is no Prophet after him.
Allah says: “Muhammad is no more than a Messenger: many were the Messengers that passed away before him. If he died or were slain, will ye then turn back on your heels? If any did turn back on his heels, not the least harm will he do to Allah; but Allah (on the other hand) will swiftly reward those who (serve Him) with gratitude.” Surah No. 3, Verse No. 144.
Allah says: “Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered Prophet whom they find mentioned in their own (Scriptures),-in the Taurat and the Gospel; - for he commands them what is just and Forbids them what is evil; he allows them as lawful what is good (and pure) and prohibits them from what is bad (and impure): He releases them from their heavy burdens and from the yokes that are upon them. So it is those who believe in him, honour him, help him, and follow the Light which is sent down with him, - it is they who will prosper.” Surah No. 7, verse No. 157.
Allah says: “Say: “O men! I am sent unto you all, as the Messenger of Allah, to who belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth: there is no god but He: it is He that giveth both life and death. So believe in Allah and His Messenger. The unlettered Prophet, who believeth in Allah and His words, follow him that (so) ye may be guided.” Surah No. 7, Verse No. 158.
Allah says: “Now hath come to you a Messenger from amongst yourselves: it grieves him that you should suffer, ardently anxious is he over you: to the Believers is he most kind and merciful”. Surah No. 9, Verse No. 128.
Allah says: “Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets. And Allah has full knowledge of all things.” Surah No. 33, Verse No. 40.
Allah says: “Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah…” Surah No 48, Verse No. 29.
Allah says: “And remember, Jesus, the Son of Mary, said: “O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Taurat (which came) before me, and giving Glad Tidings of a messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad. But when he came to them with Clear Signs, They said, “This is evident sorcery!” Surah No.61, Verse No.6.Take note that Allah the Almighty revealed to Muhammad (PBBUH) the Holy Quran which is the word of Allah and which contains Guidance and Light for the worlds. It has alsoexplanation of everything.
Allah says: “Ramadan is the (month) in which was sent down The Qur’an, as a guide to mankind, also clear (Signs) for guidance and judgment (between right and wrong) so every one of you who is present (at his home) during that month should spent it in fasting, but if anyone is ill, or on a journey, the prescribed period (should be made up) by days later. Allah intends every facility for you: He does not want to put you to difficulties. (He wants you) to complete the prescribed period, and glorify Him in that He has guided you; and perchance ye shall be grateful.” Surah No.2, Verse No.185.
Allah says: “Say: “What thing is most weighty in evidence?” say: “Allah is witness between me and you; this Qur’an hath been revealed to me by inspiration. That I may warn you and all whom it reaches. Can ye possibly bear witness that besides Allah there are other gods?” say: “Nay! I cannot bear witness!” Surah No. 6, Verse No. 19.
Allah says:“Verily this Quran doth guide to that which is most right (or stable), and giveth the glad tidings to the Believers who work deeds of righteousness, that they shall have a magnificent reward.” Surah No. 17, Verse No. 9. Allah says: “We send down (stage by stage) of the Quran that which is a healing and a mercy to those who believe: to the unjust it causes nothing but loss after loss.” Surah No. 17, Verse No. 82.
Allah says: “As for thee, thou receives theQuran from One All-Wise, All-Knowing.” Surah No. 27, Verse No. 6.
Allah says:“And We have explained to man, in this Quran, every kind of similitude: yet greater part of men refuse (to receive it) except with gratitude!” Surah No. 17, Verse No. 89.
Appreciate that the Holy Quran, which was revealed to Allah’s Prophet (PBBUH), has been the Greatest Evident Miracle Ever. It is continuing and everlastingly challenging all mankind gathered together to produce something like it or like one of its Surahs.
Allah says: “Say: ‘if the whole of mankind and Jinns were to gather together to produce the like of this Quran, they could not produce the like thereof, even if they backed up each other with help and support.’” Surah No. 17, Verse No. 88.
Allah says: “And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant then produce a Sura like thereunto; and call your witness or helpers (if there are any) besides Allah, if ye are truthful.” Surah No. 2, Verse No. 23.
Be informed that Allah has ordered all mankind no matter what their colours, sexes; languages may be to believe in Muhammad the Prophet (PBBUP), follow him and obey him. He who obeys the Prophet (PBBUH) obeys Allah and consequently he will be on the right path; and; he who disobeysthe Prophet (PBBUH), disobeys Allah and consequently he will be on the wrong path.
Allah says: “Say: “Obey Allah and His Messenger”: but if they turn back, Allah loveth not those who reject faith.” Surah No. 3, Verse No. 32.
Allah says:“O ye who believe! Obey Allah and His Messenger, and turn not away from him when ye hear (him speak).” Surah No. 8, Verse No. 20.
Allah says:“He who obeys the Messenger, obeys Allah…” Surah No. 4, Verse No. 80. Allah says: “Say: “if ye do love Allah, follow me: Allah will love you and forgive you your sins: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most merciful.” Surah No. 3, Verse No. 31.Take note that he who hears of Muhammad the Prophet (PBBUH) and neither believes in him nor follows him is a disbeliever in Allah, rejecting faith in Him andconsequently worthy to be tortured on the Day of Judgement.
Allah says: “We know indeed the grief which their words do cause thee: It is not thee they reject: It is the Signs of Allah, which the wicked deny.” Surah No. 6, Verse No. 33.
Allah says:“On that day those who reject Faith and disobey the Messenger will wish that the earth were made one with them: but never will they hide a single fact from Allah!” Surah No. 4, Verse No. 42. Allah says: “If anyone contends with the Messenger even after Guidance has been plainly conveyed to him, and follows a path other than that becoming to men to Faith, we shall leave him in the path he has chosen, and land him in Hell,- What an evil refuge!” Surah No. 4, Verse No. 115.
The Prophet (PBBUH) says: “By the One in whose hands Muhammad’s soul is, if anyone, anywhere in the world, whether a Jew or Christian hears of me and dies without believing in my Message will definitely be amongst those in Hell-Fire.” (Muslim)
Take note that the Religion before Allah is Islam and it is the religion of all Prophets and Messengers. No religion is accepted of anyone but Islam.
Allah says:“And Abraham enjoined upon his sons and so did Jacob;” Oh my sons! Allah hath chosen the Faith for you; then die not except in the state of submission (to Me).” Surah No. 2, Verse No.132.
Allah says: “The Religion before Allah is Islam..” Surah No. 3, Verse No. 19.
Allah says:“If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah) never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter he will be in the ranks of those who have lost.” Surah No. 3, Verse No.85.
Be informed that resurrection after death is coming and absolutely true; the Hour is coming and absolutely true and theaccountability on doomsday is absolutely true.
Allah says: “Lost indeed are they who treat it as a falsehood that they must meet Allah, - until on a sudden the Hour is on them, and they say: “Ah! Woe unto us that we neglected; for they bear their burdens on their backs, and evil indeed are the burdens that they bear?” Surah No. 6 Verse No. 31.
Allah says:“Verily the Hour is coming- I have almost kept it hidden- for every soul to receive its reward by the measure of its Endeavour.” Surah No. 20, Verse No. 15.
Allah says:“And verily the Hour will come: there can be no doubt about it, or about (the fact) that Allah will raise up all who are in the graves.” Surah No. 22, Verse No. 7.
Allah says:“The Unbelievers say, “Never to us will come the Hour”: say, “Nay! But most surely, by my Lord, it will come upon you;…” Surah No 34, Verse No. 3.
Allah says:“The Hour will certainly come: therein is no doubt: yet most men believe not.” Surah No. 40, Verse No. No. 59. Allah says:“Again, on the Day of Judgement, will ye be raised up.” Surah No. 23, Verse No. 16.
Allah says:“Allah is never unjust in the least degree: if there is any good (done), He doubleth it, and giveth from His Own self a great reward.” Surah No. 4, Verse No. 40.
Allah says:“Then shall anyone who has done an atom’s weight of good, see it! And anyone who has done an atom’s weight of evil, shall see it.” Surah No. 99, Verses Nos. 7-8. Learn that Paradise and its bounties are absolutely true, therein everlasting goodness and bounties of which no ear has ever heard of, or an eye has ever seen or a mind has ever been able to imagine. All this has been prepared Allah’s righteous believers.
Allah says:“The parable of the Garden which the righteous are promised! - beneath it flow rivers; perpetual is the fruits therof and the shade therein: such is the End of the Righteous and the End of the Unbelievers is the Fire.” Surah No. 13, Verse No. 35.
Allah says:“But give glad tidings to those who believe and work righteousness, that their portion is Gardens, beneath which rivers flow, every time they are fed with fruits therefrom, they say: “Why, this what we were fed with before,” for that are given things in similitude; and they have therein spouses purified; and they abide therein (forever).” Surah No. 2, Verse No. 25.
Allah says:“But those who believe and work deeds of righteousness- to them shall We give a Home in Heaven, - lofty mansions beneath which flow rivers, -to dwell therein for aye; an excellent reward for those who do (good)!” Surah No. 29, Verse No. 58.
Allah says:“Verily the Companions of the Garden shall that Day have joy in all that they do.” Surah No. 36, Verse No. 55.
Allah says:“(Here is) the description of the Garden which the righteous are promised: in it are rivers of water unstaling; rivers of Milk of which the taste never changes; rivers of wine, a joy to those who drink; and rivers of honey pure and clear. In it there are for them all kinds of fruits; and Forgiveness from their Lord, (can those in such Bliss) be compared to such as shall dwell fro ever in the Fire and be given to drink, boiling water, so that it cuts up their bowels (to pieces)?” Surah No.47, Verse No. 15.
Allah says:“Be quick in the race for forgiveness from your Lord and for a Garden whose width is that (of the whole) of the heavens and of the earth, prepared for the righteous.” Surah No.3 Verse No 133.
Allahsays: “Be ye foremost (in seeking) forgiveness from your Lord, and a Garden (of Bliss), the width whereof is as the width of heaven and earth prepared for those who believe in Allah and His messengers: that is the Grace of Allah, which He bestows on whom He pleases: and Allah is the Lord of Grace abounding.” Surah No. 57, Verse No. 21.
Learn that the Hell fire is absolutely true; its torture in is true; and fierce. It has a torture that is extremely fierce, harsh, and perpetual. Its torture is something that no ear has ever heard of, or an eye has ever seen or a mind has ever been able to imagine. All this has been prepared for those who associate partners with Allah and who made it false to believe in Allah.
Allah says: “Know they not that for those who oppose Allah and His Messenger is the Fire of Hell? - Wherein they shall dwell. That is the supreme disgrace.” Surah No.9, Verse No. 63.
Allah says:“…on the Day of Judgement we shall gather them together, prone on their faces, blind, dumb, and deaf: their abode will be Hell: every time it shows abatement, We shall increase for them the fierceness of the Fire.” Surah No. 17, Verse No. 97.
Allah says: “And We shall drive the sinners to hell, (like thirsty cattle driven down to water)” Surah No. 19, Verse No. 86.
Allah says: “Verily he who comes to his Lord as a sinner (at Judgement), -for him is Hell: therein shall he neither die nor live.” Surah No. 20, Verse No. 74.
Allah says:“But those who reject (Allah) - for them will be the Fire of Hell: not term shall be determined for them, so they should die, nor shall its Chastisement be lightened for them. Thus do WE reward every ungrateful.” Surah No. 35, Verse No. 36. Allah says: “The Unbelievers will be led to Hell in groups: until, when they arrive there, its gates will be opened. And its Keepers will say, “Did not messengers come to you from among yourselves, rehearsing to you the Signs of your Lord, and warning you of the Meeting of this Day of yours?” The answer will be: “True: but the Decree of Chastisement has been proved true against the Unbelievers!” Surah No. 39, Verse No. 71.
Take note that if you die believing in the oneness of God and in Muhammad (PBBUH), Allah’s last Messenger, you will be amongst those who will be saved and led into Paradise to live in its bounties for ever.
Allah says: “But such as come to Him as Believers who have worked righteous deeds, for them are ranks exalted.” Surah No. 20, Verse No. 75.
Whereas, if you die associating partners with Allah, disbelieving in Him and rejecting faith in Him, you will be among thosewhowill be in Hell Fire for ever and ever.
Allah says: “But whosoever turns away from My Message, verily for him is a life narrowed down, and We shall raisehim up blind on the Day of Judgement.” SurahNo. 20, Verse 124.
Allah says: “And who does more wrong than one to whom are recited the Signs of his Lord, and who then turns way therefrom? Verily from those who transgress We shall exact (due) retribution.” Surah No. 32, Verse no. 22.
Allah says: “Verily he who comes to his Lord as a sinner (at Judgement),-for him is Hell: therein shall he neither die nor live.” Surah No. 20, Verse No. 74
Allah says: “…and if any of you turn back from their faith and die in unbelief, their works will bear no fruit in this life and in the Hereafter; they will be companions of the Fire and will abide therein.” Surah No. 2, Verse No. 217
Be informed that there is no force in religion; the right path is clear and the wrong path is clear. So after you have read and thought of and contemplated about the above message, you will not be excused by ignorance. As the warnings and message of all messengers have now reached you, you will be brought to account and be accountable on the Day of Judgment when there is no benefit for money or children but only for those who will come with good deeds and clear hearts.Finallytake note that the devils of mankind and Jinn’s and the wicked of the learned among them are scheming day and night to prevent you from listening to this message and to any other message that speaks of the Truth.
We pray to Allah that He helps you find the right path and guide you to what pleases Him
Praise be to Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds
But if you could become an ant, you would be able to communicate with them. That is much like the idea of Jesus God's word in the flesh. You are starting to get it, I think?
LOL no , not at all
Why God needs to become His own creation ???? That's absurd ...very confusing :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
God sent us Prophets (pbut ) , God sent us holy books , God gave us intelligence .....Our logic tell us that God does not need to
be a human being or fight with a Prophet (p)-----He is above all these .
Allahu Akbar ----Only God is Great.
Last edited by Muslim Woman; 06-19-2007 at 08:16 AM.
Reason: :)
Christ will never be proud to reject to be a slave to God .....holy Quran, chapter Women , 4: 172
"
Are you going to claim that Jesus was nothing more than an angel?
Jesus (p) was a blessed Prophet (p) , his status is higher than angels & lower than God Almighty.
……..except for Muhammad himself saying so, what proof do u have that Muhammad (p) was taught by God?
may i ask ....except complicated explanations of few verses those go against the whole Bible , what proof do u have that Jesus (p ) is God ?
.....the difference between admitting that there are imperfections in Bibles today and saying that the New Testament itself was corrupted.
what are u trying to say ? What's the differences between ' imperfections in Bible today ' & New Testament itself was corrupted ?
We believe that Jesus (p) got the revealation from God. People did not write it correctly , did not memorized the whole Injeel/ Bible , thus they lost the original one. Later , people added many false things in it.
Non-Christian scholars will testify to the reliability of the Christian New Testament as the most well documented of all ancient documents from the Greco-Roman period or before.
That's really strange . Bible publishers are giving warning to Chrisitian readers about Bogus Bible & u r claiming that Non-Chrisitian scholars will testify ?
Why not try to convince Bible publishers first that Bible is most well documented of all ancient documents from the Greco-Roman period or before??
Jesus was and is God; .....You may call it shirk, but it is truer than any words ever spoken by the one you call a prophet.
ok , which Prophet (p) before Jesus (p) told u that to go to heaven , u have to believe in Trinity ?
If Trinity is so imp for salvation , how come no Prophet ever taught about Trinity ? Not even mentioned once ????? Another mystery ??? :enough!:
Uhhhh , i m seriously thinking of not visiting the religious threads for the time being .....running out of patience fast.....sorry if my posts hurt any Christians feelings
Last edited by Muslim Woman; 06-19-2007 at 08:41 AM.
Christ will never be proud to reject to be a slave to God .....holy Quran, chapter Women , 4: 172
may i ask ....except complicated explanations of few verses those go against the whole Bible , what proof do u have that Jesus (p ) is God ?
I gave you a whole list of them above. Nothing complicated about a one of them. And I gave several, not just one. But you have not addressed my question -- "……..except for Muhammad himself saying so, what proof do u have that Muhammad (p) was taught by God?" -- at all, only came back with the same question I have already previously answered.
what are u trying to say ? What's the differences between ' imperfections in Bible today ' & New Testament itself was corrupted ?
The difference is that what you say below:
"We believe that Jesus (p) got the revealation from God. People did not write it correctly , did not memorized the whole Injeel/ Bible , thus they lost the original one. Later , people added many false things in it."
This stuff IS NOT how the New Testament was produced, nor how it was intended to be written to begin with. Jesus did not come with a message. He came with a mission. Preaching was only incidental, not primary, to Jesus' purpose. The companions of Jesus recorded what he did as actually being more important than what he said. There was no Injeel as you think of it to memorize, there was instead a story of Jesus' sacrfice on the cross to proclaim. Check it out, this last week of Jesus' life takes up nearly half of each of the Gospels. It is the primary focus of the teaching and preaching of the early church. Why? Because the Cross itself IS the message.
So, if this is what is recorded, and it is, then there is no corruption.
What did happen is that in later copying of the gospels records that there were some scribal errors and while most of these are fairly easy to discern what was the original text, in a few instances it is more difficult and thus not quite certain. None of these are significant enough to change the basic thrust of the story of Jesus life.
That's really strange . Bible publishers are giving warning to Chrisitian readers about Bogus Bible & u r claiming that Non-Chrisitian scholars will testify ?
Yep. Exactly. That's why I just think you misunderstand the nature of what the Bible actually is and how reliable that it is as an historical document, not just a religious one.
Why not try to convince Bible publishers first that Bible is most well documented of all ancient documents from the Greco-Roman period or before??
They already know that it is. What makes you think that they don't recognize that?
ok , which Prophet (p) before Jesus (p) told u that to go to heaven , u have to believe in Trinity ?
That's not even relevant.
if Trinity is so imp for salvation , how come no Prophet ever taught about Trinity ? Not even mentioned once ????? Another mystery ??? :enough!:
The fullness of God's self-revelation of himself was not complete until Jesus came. The prophets could not talk about that which they did not know. None of the prophets were given complete knowledge of God. The Trinity would be one of those things that were true, but that they knew little to nothing about. Though you can find hints with regard to the Trinity in some of their writings.
Last edited by Grace Seeker; 06-19-2007 at 09:30 AM.
I want to hear from a neutral person who’s belief s/he finds more logical …….God can come here, fight with His own creation & was a looser or Muslims are more credible that it’s impossible --- God fought & was beaten.
With all due respect, the thoughts you express are those of a carnal, not spiritual, mind. It would be like saying, a person who engages in fervent, prevailing prayer and thereby receives his prayer request from God, has beaten God and made God a loser. Do you see how ridiculous such a thought is? Jacob's wrestling with the angel (or God) is more about prayer not power, and is commented on by several commentaries which may be found by Googling the phrase, "commentary on Genesis 32." I suggest you do that.
format_quote Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
Phil12123 : The Fathernever takes a position lower than the Son; He doesn't need to. But the Son needed to take a lower position …….. [I notice you leave out my words, ...in order to take on flesh and die for our sins."]
------still u deny what Jesus (p) repeatedly[???] told u: "My Father is greater than I." Son was NOT equal to father ………he needed to take a lower position ….[again, I notice you leave out my words, ...in order to take on flesh and die for our sins."]...u r saying this but not accepting the main truth that, indeed God is greater than all.
In ur Bible , Father was always in a superior position -- except the case of Jacob (p).
GOD (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) is ALWAYS in a superior position in relation to His creation. Jacob is no exception. It is only by the grace and mercy of God that we have any of our prayers answered. Again, God's granting some prayer request does not make Him a loser, nor give us a position superior to His. God is all-powerful and it is only by His grace (undeserved love or favor) that He even listens to our prayers. But for the Christian, He is a Heavenly Father who delights in the prayers of His children, when they are in a right relation with Him, more so than any earthly father toward his loved children.
I see you LOVE John 14:28 and even include it in your signature, no matter how much you misunderstand it. And you know from my previous post that I do NOT deny it, but simply understand it in its proper context, which YOU ignore. You remind me of several Jehovah's Witnesses that I have dialogued with, who LOVE to point out all they can in the Scriptures that might support their erroneous views of the nature of Christ. They are wrong, wrong, wrong, and you are wrong, wrong, wrong, and both you and them are well-referred-to by Peter when he wrote:
2 Peter 3:
13. Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.
14. Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless;
15. and account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you,
16. as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which those who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.
17. You therefore, beloved, since you know these things beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked;
18. but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen.
format_quote Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
--we are not Creator of ants & on the last day, we won’t judge ants. But, God will judge us on the basis of this fact that if we shared oneness of God with someone else or not?
So, Pl. be very careful & don’t associate partner with God…..ur holy book, all the blessed Prophets (pbut) including Jesus (p) warned u against shirk / blasphemy.
format_quote Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
---Muslims have many faults but praise be to God only, we are not committing blasphemy----the most major sin in Judaism, Christianity & Islam.
My holy book, the Bible, also warns you that if you believe not that Jesus is God you will die in your sins (John 8:24, 58). And your sins will include blasphemy in speaking against the Son of God. My holy book, the Bible, also says that God (actually in the Person of Jesus Christ) will judge you on the basis of what you did with His work of redemption for your sins at Calvary---accept it and have your sins paid for by Him, or reject it and thus require you to pay for all your own sins for the zillions and zillions of years of eternity. Your believing in ONE GOD without partners, as I do, will not count for ANYTHING at the judgment, because your sins will still remain if you reject Christ's atoning death for them.
format_quote Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
It’s a bit funny that Bible publishers are admitting the fact that other Bibles are corrupted but we Muslims have no right to say so.
There are NO Bible publishers who are saying ANY Bibles are corrupted on the scale that you Muslims are claiming. SHOW ME one single Bible published by any reputable Bible publisher that does not contain every verse describing God as "God the Father" and Jesus as the "Son of God," and telling about Jesus' death, burial and resurrection. YOU CAN'T DO IT. So, stop the foolish comparison of ANY Bible publishers with what you Muslims are saying.
I gave you a whole list of them above. Nothing complicated about a one of them. And I gave several, not just one.
I dont remember ur giving proof outside Bible about Jesus's (p) being God .....ok , Insha Allah , i will try to read ur posts again.
But you have not addressed my question -- "……..except for Muhammad himself saying so, what proof do u have that Muhammad (p) was taught by God?" -- at all, only came back with the same question I have already previously answered
As a believer , holy Quran is enough for me...if it's blind faith ( as u pointed out ) , then how come ur faith is not blind , too ?
Jesus did not come with a message. He came with a mission.
but his mission was for Jews only. There is also a verse in Bible that prohibits Christians to preach to ....i forgot the exact word....say Muslims like me .
May be , it will be off topic here ...but are Chrsitians allowed to preach to Muslims ?
There was no Injeel as you think of it to memorize, there was instead a story of Jesus' sacrfice on the cross to proclaim.
what do u mean ? If Jesus (p) got revealation , then surely he told about these to people. And the words of God should have been recorded....either in written foms or in memory.
Because the Cross itself IS the message.
now , we may start another debate on Cross. Muslims believe , Jesus (p) will break all the Crosses after his second coming.
What did happen is that in later copying of the gospels records that there were some scribal errors
there were not some errors.....those Chrisitians scholars tried to corrected the errors admitted that it's impossible to do the corrections.....thousands & thousands errors.
They already know that it is. What makes you think that they don't recognize that?
then pl . tell them not to use the word bogus about Bible.
That's not even relevant.
The prophets could not talk about that which they did not know.
yes , u r right . The Prophets ( pbut ) did not know about Trinity.
it's an invention ....not by Jesus (p).
None of the prophets were given complete knowledge of God. The Trinity would be one of those things that were true, but that they knew little to nothing about. Though you can find hints with regard to the Trinity in some of their writings.
if they knew nothing about Trinity , how it was possible for them to give hints ?
Verses of the day & night –
“Say: O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)!
Do you criticize us for no other reason than that we believe in God, and in (the revelation) which has been sent down before (us),
and that most of you are faasiqoon (rebellious and disobedient [to God ])?”
[al-Maa’idah 5:59]
Last edited by Muslim Woman; 06-20-2007 at 12:27 AM.
Christ will never be proud to reject to be a slave to God .....holy Quran, chapter Women , 4: 172
I dont remember ur giving proof outside Bible about Jesus's (p) being God .....ok , Insha Allah , i will try to read ur posts again.
As a believer , holy Quran is enough for me...if it's blind faith ( as u pointed out ) , then how come ur faith is not blind , too ?
Were you asking for proof outside of the Bible about Jesus being God? I did not understand that. Well, I did mention that we have the testimony of the Holy Spirit in our own lives, that is outside the Bible. We have the earliest of all Christian writings, the Didicahe, which makes this proclaimation about Jesus, and it is not in the Bible. We have the Apsotles' Creed and the testimony of those who were disciples of Jesus' companions that Jesus was God. These are all Christians witnesses, in addition to the Biblical witness, which express the belief that Jesus was God.
Of course I don't expect you to accept any of that as proof. But maybe you will accept it as proof that Christians believed this to be true long before Paul or and centuries before Nicea. Indeed, may you will accept as true that the very earliest Christians actually did believe that Jesus was God. It was so important that to not believe that Jesus was God was enough to keep one from joining the 1st century church. And in later years when such ideas first appeared within the church, those Christians that held them were labelled heretics and excommunicated from the church.
Now, since we don't have it written in the sky, maybe you want to call it blind faith. I personally think it is reasoned faith, but if you see it as blind faith, then that is how you see it.
but his mission was for Jews only. There is also a verse in Bible that prohibits Christians to preach to ....i forgot the exact word....say Muslims like me .
May be , it will be off topic here ...but are Chrsitians allowed to preach to Muslims ?
Yes, most certainly Christias are allowed to preach to Muslims, to Jews, to atheists, to Buddhists, to agnostics, to Taoists, to animists, to Wiccans, to spiritualists, to pagans, to secular humanists, and even to other Christians.
Jesus mission was "to seek and to save that which was lost" (Luke 19:10). His mission sent him to the Jews, but the very verses that you look to in order to make the claim that Jesus' mission was for the Jews alone (Mark 7:24-30) show that Jesus was willing to be in ministry to others besides just Jews, for he was not in Palestine at the time and he does meet this non-Jewish woman's need.
Also Jesus accomplished his mission among the Jews, but the impact of it was intended to reach all peoples everywhere, this is why he specifically sent his disciples to go to the entire world: "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations." (Mattew 28:19), and "you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth" (Acts 1:8).
what do u mean ? If Jesus (p) got revealation , then surely he told about these to people. And the words of God should have been recorded....either in written foms or in memory.
First, Jesus did and said many things. Not all of what he did and said was recorded. What was recorded and passed on to us was that which was necessary and sufficient for us to know about and believe in Christ for our salvation. Again, you are thinking like a Muslim in thinking that there must be some special message. What is special is not Jesus' message, but Jesus himself. We are not to place our faith in the words he gave to us, we are to place our faith in him personally.
then pl . tell them not to use the word bogus about Bible.
You'll have to point out to me (or do it again if you've done so before) where a Bible publisher calls the Bible bogus. I don't know of any such instance.
yes , u r right . The Prophets ( pbut ) did not know about Trinity.
it's an invention ....not by Jesus (p).
I've addressed this many times with you. Others seem to get it. Please tell me if I am communicating poorly and you still don't understand. Or am I not understanding that you aren't really asking for clarification, and that you just want to say what you yourself believe in this matter, regardless as to whether it is relevant or not. Because it is not relevant that the Word Trinity appears no where in scripture. The word "cumulous" does not appear in scripture when describing clouds, but that doesn't mean that Jesus and the disciples never saw cumulous clouds.
if they knew nothing about Trinity , how it was possible for them to give hints ?
Because the prophets were given messages from God, and God knew what he was like. He did not reveal all about his nature until the time of Christ, but that doesn't keep him from giving hints.
There is finally one question, which puzzle me most:
Where did people go, or what happen to them before THE GOD/ALLAH?
I mean, Egyptians/Romans/Greeks/Azteks etc. had their Gods, and for them, their Gods were the real Gods. What Muslims and Christians call Paradise, the old Vikings in Norway call it 'Walhalla'
Get the point? Everybody believe in someone/something and that keeps us together. It makes part of the social matrix which we are all involved.
But the world will go on, even after Mankind is erased.
Who can really proove, that before the dinosaures, there was not another civilisation which again had their gods?
All this stuff about religion is so silly. I believe in my wife and my children. My aim is to give them a good future. After this, who cares, I will be burned and my ashes will turn back to where they come from. End of story ! There do exist neither a paradise nor a hell. It is just an imagination which humans created themselves to strenghten their beliefs.
Im Always Right,Its Like,When Im Right,Im Right,And When Im Wrong,I Could've Been Right,So Im Still Right,'Cause I Could've Been Wrong!
There is finally one question, which puzzle me most:
Where did people go, or what happen to them before THE GOD/ALLAH?......
I mean, Egyptians/Romans/Greeks/Azteks etc. had their Gods, and for them, their Gods were the real Gods.
God is only one ........ God sent to Prophets to all nations to taught people about worshipping one God.
So , those who worshipped one God will enter paradise , those who made statues for worhip purpose or worshipped sun , moon , humsn being , angel etc ---creations of the Creator --will be in fire forever .....if did not repent sincerely.
What Muslims and Christians call Paradise, the old Vikings in Norway call it 'Walhalla'
--we all have different langauages ...in my language i call Paradise ' beyhaest '...so what ?
Get the point?
no
But the world will go on, even after Mankind is erased.
how do u know ?
Who can really proove, that before the dinosaures, there was not another civilisation which again had their gods?
read holy Quran , hopefully u will understand there are no gods but God.
All this stuff about religion is so silly.
it's not silly to God ........so , it's very imp to believers.
I believe in my wife and my children. My aim is to give them a good future.
if u really love them , try to save them from eternal fire.
... I will be burned and my ashes will turn back to where they come from. End of story ! There do exist neither a paradise nor a hell....
It has been answered several times & thousand years ago . If there is no hell , no fear at all but what if really hell is waiting to burn u......must not u be careful ? In this world, we dont' want to be roasted in fire even for 1 second , so how can we deny God & enter in eternal fire ?
Just think & pray if u want . If u don't believe in God , u will be the looser , not the God Almighty.
Christ will never be proud to reject to be a slave to God .....holy Quran, chapter Women , 4: 172
Regarding preaching on hell, I like what John Wesley said:
"I don't believe in using hell just to scare people into being good, but I have no problem with using the fear of hell to scare them to strive to live lives bound for heaven." (my paraphrase)
[COLOR=Blue]
should i keep replying or take some time ; so that we can calm down & later come back with a smiley mood
Ask any thing, any time if you are really searching for understanding. But please try to remember those questions which we have addressed. And if you don't understand the first answer, certainly ask again and we will try to find a different way to say the same thing so that you can understand. But if it is you just don't like the Christian answer, then please understand that asking the same question repeatedly isn't going to help either of us much. Our answer isn't going to change, and you will never believe the one we are going to give.
Why God needs to become His own creation ???? That's absurd ...very confusing :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
God sent us Prophets (pbut ) , God sent us holy books , God gave us intelligence .....Our logic tell us that God does not need to
be a human being or fight with a Prophet (p)-----He is above all these .
Allahu Akbar ----Only God is Great.
So He could be our high priest. So that God could fellowship with us because he loves us and wants to be with us. He couldn't do it as a spirit. He had to become flesh and blood, but he is not limited to flesh and blood. It makes prefect sense. The only reason I believe you say it doesn't is because you believe that means ascribing partners to God which you got from the Qur'an, but it is not. What you consider to be foolishness is the power of God to us.
There is finally one question, which puzzle me most:
Where did people go, or what happen to them before THE GOD/ALLAH?
I mean, Egyptians/Romans/Greeks/Azteks etc. had their Gods, and for them, their Gods were the real Gods. What Muslims and Christians call Paradise, the old Vikings in Norway call it 'Walhalla'
Get the point? Everybody believe in someone/something and that keeps us together. It makes part of the social matrix which we are all involved.
But the world will go on, even after Mankind is erased.
Who can really proove, that before the dinosaures, there was not another civilisation which again had their gods?
All this stuff about religion is so silly. I believe in my wife and my children. My aim is to give them a good future. After this, who cares, I will be burned and my ashes will turn back to where they come from. End of story ! There do exist neither a paradise nor a hell. It is just an imagination which humans created themselves to strenghten their beliefs.
I will give the Christian answer (or at least mine). Someone else will have to give you the Muslim answer, if it differs from mine.
Jesus spoke more about Hell than anyone else in the Bible. He obviously was much more concerned about it than you are. He said that at the judgment when He comes back and sits on His throne, He will say to some, "Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matt. 25:41). This tells us several things. First, Jesus Christ Himself will be the Judge. Second, there will be some who will go into everlasting fire. Third, that everlasting fire was originally "prepared for the devil and his angels," i.e., the fallen angels, the demons.
Satan fell from his original position of a beautiful angel ("the anointed cherub" Ezek. 28:14). He was "in Eden, the garden of God" (28:13), probably invisible to Adam and Eve, but nevertheless speaking through the serpent, tempting them to sin by disobeying God. So, Satan's fall from his original position in heaven had to be before the creation of man, and therefore before all those civilizations you mention. Therefore, if hell was prepared for him and his demons and he fell before there were any civilizations, hell has existed for all of human history. The question you ask is then, Did people go there when they died? Well, before Jesus came to die for sinners, everyone went to the place of the dead and in the O.T. it is called Sheol, the place of departed spirits, both righteous and wicked. There was, however, a great difference in the locations in Sheol of the righteous and the wicked, separated by a great gulf, so that those in one place could not move to the other. The one place, for the righteous, was a place of comfort and contentment, where the righteous awaited Christ's death and resurrection, after which they would be led by Christ as He ascended to Heaven. They are now in heaven.
The other place, where the wicked went, was and still is a place of torment, where the wicked await, as if in a temporary jail, for their trial (the Judgment) after which they are sentenced to their final, eternal prison, known in the N.T. as the Lake of Fire.
So, to answer your question, the wicked of every age go to hell, a place of torment, and then finally to the Lake of Fire. The real question, however, might be, Who did God consider "the wicked" and "the righteous" back in those ancient civilizations that you mention. This post is already too long, though, to go into that now.
I will close with this thought: Eternity is TOO LONG to be wrong about it. If you care about your wife and children, whether you care about yourself or not, you will do as Muslim Woman suggested and "try to save them from eternal fire." You don't need them to keep you company in hell. You will be too concerned with your own torment to care about anyone else, even if they were in torment right next to you. Besides, you would not be able to relieve their torment any more than yours.
How long is eternity? Zillions and zillions of years, and then some. We have no concept of it, we who live maybe 100 years at best. That is like one tiny drop compared to all the oceans of the world. Or one grain of sand vs. all the beaches and deserts of the world. WAY TOO LONG TO BE WRONG ABOUT IT.
. Our answer isn't going to change, and you will never believe the one we are going to give.
well , from Muslims side , we can say the same to our dear Chrisitans bro & sisters
Grace Seeker:I personally think it is reasoned faith, but if you see it as blind faith, then that is how you see it.
Well bro , I did not start it ….u wrote this & I just replied . Here is ur comment :
Grace Seeker: it looks like an act of blind belief in the words of one man who claims he heard God send him a message through an angel.
Muslim Woman---well , I guess , Jews would love to say same or more offensive things about Jesus (p) .
Grace Seeker: Indeed the Jews on this board would agree with you in making that statement.
---and ur point is …..?????
Is it ok for u to make negative comment about Muhammed (p) but Jews must not do the same about Jesus (p) ?
OR as they are the chosen people , they are allowed to say anything about Mother Mary (ra ) & Jesus (p) but Muslims can’t express their opinion even if they do it with respect ?
Why is that Christians are so sensitive about Muslims opinion that is expressed with full respect to Jesus (p) but they don’t react much ( at least as same they do with Muslims ) when it’s the question of Jews opinion ???
we have the testimony of the Holy Spirit in our own lives
--how do u know it’s not devil but the holy Spirit ?
verses of the Day & night :
God sees all that is in the hearts of His servants, those who say, "Our Lord! We believe in You, forgive us our sins and save us from the doom of the Fire," those who are steadfast, truthful, and devout, who give in charity and pray for forgiveness in the depths of the night.
-Qur'an, Al-Imran, Surah 3:15-17
Hadith : Like the corn fields that yield before the ferocious winds, the believers endure trials with fortitude. The hypocrites like cypress trees stand arrogantly until they are knocked down.
-The Prophet Muhammad (SAW), as reported by Abu Hurairah
From "The Bounty of Allah." Hadith translated by Aneela Khalid Arshed
“Why do you call me good?” answered Jesus, “No-one is good but God alone!” Mark 6:10
Last edited by Muslim Woman; 06-21-2007 at 01:03 AM.
Christ will never be proud to reject to be a slave to God .....holy Quran, chapter Women , 4: 172
beautuful and very informational I hope alot of people fully read this thread. May Allah bless you for making this thread for the unknowledgable.
HAVE YOU HEARD THE GOOD NEWS? We have all sinned and the penalty for it is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ. He that has the son has life; he that does not, does not have life, but the wrath of God abides on him. This is beautiful information. I hope you read and are blessed with understanding.
well I really dont believe jesus(a.s.) has anything to do with eternal life and I actually can prove why,but really dont feel like debating right now but im pretty sure its on this forum some where being proved.
well I really dont believe jesus(a.s.) has anything to do with eternal life and I actually can prove why,but really dont feel like debating right now but im pretty sure its on this forum some where being proved.
well I really dont believe jesus(a.s.) has anything to do with eternal life and I actually can prove why,but really dont feel like debating right now but im pretty sure its on this forum some where being proved.
<...>
read holy Quran , hopefully u will understand there are no gods but God.
<...>
All in all, you didn't answer any of my questions. I love science, and according to this, the world is already more than 4 billions of years old. The bible is only 2000 years old. Compared to 4 billions, it is barely a glimpse of a moment.
Now and you want to tell me, before God was no other God?
Well, I have 2 different answers for you:
1. The religious one: There are MANY Gods according to all the cultures and civilisations.
2. The scientific one: There is NO God. His existence has never been prooven.
All I hear is just 'He said', 'He Did', He command' ! Weee, and where is the proof, he said that, that he even exist?
I find it rather amusing, that people follow blindfolded stories out of books Bible/quaran which has been retranslated and rewritten 1000 times, everytime with a different author, so guess, what is left from the initial book.
I just give you an example: In the Genesis Book is mentionned the forbidden fruit, right?
But how you can explain, that suddenly, in the bible, they talk about an apple?
Well it's easy to explain: Mostly everyone loves apples, they are sweet, juicy, round shape, that's why one of the authors/translators choose an apple. They are perfect for the temptation story!
About hell, yeah, hell just exist for believers. Listen, when so called muslim suicide bombers can go to paradise, I will for sure go there, anyway, 'GOD' always forgive sinners, no?
Last edited by guyabano; 06-21-2007 at 07:29 AM.
Im Always Right,Its Like,When Im Right,Im Right,And When Im Wrong,I Could've Been Right,So Im Still Right,'Cause I Could've Been Wrong!
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? ....suddenly the normal atmosphere changed.....anybody noticed it ?
? 
we can also have icecream 
beautuful and very informational I hope alot of people fully read this thread. May Allah bless you for making this thread for the unknowledgable.
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