The Bible says in Psalms 82 that you are gods; and all of you are children of the Most High. The Most High is Allah. If we are gods and children of the Most High, it shouldn't sound strange that God is a begetter and Jesus is His only Begotten Son. Muslims don't believe we are gods. And it is shirk to be partners with Allah (swt). Allah is the most High and none is like Him. Muslims believe the Bible/Gospel is not the original copy but still contains some truth. Whatever is accordance with the Qur'an is accepted and what is not is rejected. They believe that Allah does not beget nor is He begotten. It is the first 5 books of the Bible, the Psalms and the gospels, however, that Muslims pray that they must believe in, and if not, they are not following Allah's will. God’s word cannot be changed. Neither can the fact that Allah said, "Ye are gods." God made us in His image and likeness. Jesus said, “Is it not written in your law Ye are gods then why do you marvel that I say I am the Son of God?" I would like for Muslims to answer this question they conveniently don’t seem to believe. If you don't accept that Allah said, "You are gods," you are rejecting Allah's word. Muslims also believe The Bible has been changed a lot over time, but it has NOT change. There are just different translations, and some are better than others, but that is not to stop people from researching the original text in Hebrew and Greek. If you do, you will find that Allah said, “Ye are gods.” So don't think me strange or that I am presumptuous when I say that “I am a friend of God, and I know that I have eternal life,” but you are not sure you have it. The Bible was written according to Scripture so that we could know that we have salvation and that is only in His Son the only way to Allah according to the Scriptures. It is a good idea to look at and meditate on Psalm 82. I did and Allah showed me great and wonderful things that I know not. I am not trying to preach, but I am trying to scratch down deep enough to find the truth.
---End Quote---
Now your just starting to preach...
Your God is One God. There is no god but Him… (Qur'an, 2:163)
… "He is God, Absolute Oneness." (Qur'an, 112:1)
New Testament
... The Lord our God, the Lord is One. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, with all your mind and with all your strength… You are right in saying that God is One, and there is no other but Him. (Mark 12:29, 30, 32)
Old Testament
"There is no one like You, O Lord, and there is no God but You." (1 Chronicles 17:20)
You were shown these things so that you might know that the Lord is God; besides Him, there is no other. (Deuteronomy 4:35)
our and we is the majestic term someone uses on themself, Allah says we and us in the Quran, the queen says it to, go ask any jew and he will tell you that
The Bible says in Psalms 82 that you are gods; and all of you are children of the Most High. The Most High is Allah. If we are gods and children of the Most High, it shouldn't sound strange that God is a begetter and Jesus is His only Begotten Son. Muslims don't believe we are gods. And it is shirk to be partners with Allah (swt). Allah is the most High and none is like Him. Muslims believe the Bible/Gospel is not the original copy but still contains some truth. Whatever is accordance with the Qur'an is accepted and what is not is rejected. They believe that Allah does not beget nor is He begotten. It is the first 5 books of the Bible, the Psalms and the gospels, however, that Muslims pray that they must believe in, and if not, they are not following Allah's will. God’s word cannot be changed. Neither can the fact that Allah said, "Ye are gods." God made us in His image and likeness. Jesus said, “Is it not written in your law Ye are gods then why do you marvel that I say I am the Son of God?" I would like for Muslims to answer this question they conveniently don’t seem to believe. If you don't accept that Allah said, "You are gods," you are rejecting Allah's word. Muslims also believe The Bible has been changed a lot over time, but it has NOT change. There are just different translations, and some are better than others, but that is not to stop people from researching the original text in Hebrew and Greek. If you do, you will find that Allah said, “Ye are gods.” So don't think me strange or that I am presumptuous when I say that “I am a friend of God, and I know that I have eternal life,” but you are not sure you have it. The Bible was written according to Scripture so that we could know that we have salvation and that is only in His Son the only way to Allah according to the Scriptures. It is a good idea to look at and meditate on Psalm 82. I did and Allah showed me great and wonderful things that I know not. I am not trying to preach, but I am trying to scratch down deep enough to find the truth.
---End Quote---
Now your just starting to preach...
Who made the above statement? Who were you quoting from?
The path is long but I hope we meet,
After the grave and the Day, in paradise in bliss upon a reclined seat.
A traveler traveling - travelled from shirk to tawheed,
If I'm remembered for anything - let it be the Mercy I seek.
The elevation of a person into a god is a form of idolatry. 'You shall be gods . . .' said the serpent to Eve, hence a person who elevates himself into a god is an antichrist. Singular gods in the microcosm are an inversion of a universal divinity in the macrocosm.
Are we Gods? I should think that was reasonably obvious judging from the fatally flawed mish-mash of gobbledigook you've quoted in post 1, alapiana. Nothing particularly divine about any of that.
As to whether Christians are monotheists or not, is that even relevant?! They are people of the book and as such are to be respected and treated accordingly.
The Trinity may or may not be deconstructed by our scholars as being this or that. But to the vast majority of us, it should be of little or no concern. Throwing your own or even others' interpretations at Christians is hardly dawah now, is it? Philosopher, you may like to try pulling your head in a little bit.
Hello dishdash it appears that you have not posted on our forums in several weeks, why not take a few moments to engage in an argument with another member in any one of our forums?
In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful
format_quote Originally Posted by alapiana1
The Bible says in Psalms 82 that you are gods; and all of you are children of the Most High. The Most High is Allah. If we are gods and children of the Most High, it shouldn't sound strange that God is a begetter and Jesus is His only Begotten Son.
I'm with brother Philosopher, how can you believe that you follow a monotheistic religion yet believe your self to be "gods".
format_quote Originally Posted by alapiana1
Muslims don't believe we are gods. And it is shirk to be partners with Allah (swt). Allah is the most High and none is like Him. Muslims believe the Bible/Gospel is not the original copy but still contains some truth. Whatever is accordance with the Qur'an is accepted and what is not is rejected. They believe that Allah does not beget nor is He begotten.
This is the only thing you got right in you entire post.
format_quote Originally Posted by alapiana1
It is the first 5 books of the Bible, the Psalms and the gospels, however, that Muslims pray that they must believe in, and if not, they are not following Allah's will. God’s word cannot be changed.
Muslims must believe that the Injil (the original Bible) was revealed to Jesus (peace be upon him). Yes, Allah, The Most Exalted, His words cannot be changed. He said He would protect the Qur'an and this remains true till this day. But the present day bible isn't the word of God as you claim. For instance up until 250 A.D. the Christians claimed "I believe in God, The Almighty." But between 180 and 210 A.D. the word "Father" was added before the Almighty. (Jesus, A Prophet of Islam by Muhammad Ata ur-Rahman)
format_quote Originally Posted by alapiana1
Neither can the fact that Allah said, "Ye are gods." God made us in His image and likeness. Jesus said, “Is it not written in your law Ye are gods then why do you marvel that I say I am the Son of God?" I would like for Muslims to answer this question they conveniently don’t seem to believe. If you don't accept that Allah said, "You are gods," you are rejecting Allah's word.
Allah didn’t make Jesus in His Image. All Glory and Praise be to Him, He is far above such blasphemous statement. Jesus (peace be upon him) was created in the likeness of Adam (peace be upon him). We reject the present day bible since it is not the original Injil revealed to Jesus (peace be upon him). Thus we are not rejecting Allah’s words.
format_quote Originally Posted by alapiana1
Muslims also believe The Bible has been changed a lot over time, but it has NOT change. There are just different translations, and some are better than others, but that is not to stop people from researching the original text in Hebrew and Greek.
The original language of the Injil wasn’t Hebrew or Greek.
format_quote Originally Posted by alapiana1
If you do, you will find that Allah said, “Ye are gods.”
How can God say “Ye are gods” yet the in 1st of the Ten Commandments He said “Thou shalt have no other gods before me.” Allah doesn’t contradict His own sayings, He is perfect in every way. Therefore the present day bible was manipulated according desires of EVIL men.
format_quote Originally Posted by alapiana1
So don't think me strange or that I am presumptuous when I say that “I am a friend of God, and I know that I have eternal life,” but you are not sure you have it. The Bible was written according to Scripture so that we could know that we have salvation and that is only in His Son the only way to Allah according to the Scriptures. It is a good idea to look at and meditate on Psalm 82. I did and Allah showed me great and wonderful things that I know not. I am not trying to preach, but I am trying to scratch down deep enough to find the truth.
The Only way to Allah is through worshiping Him alone.
The context is not saying men are 'gods', it is referring to the fact that God has appointed human judges who are expected to carry out their God given responsibilities in a dignified God-like manner.
Last edited by Trumble; 04-30-2007 at 06:39 PM.
Reason: typo
In The Name of Allah, The Most Gracious, The Most Merciful
and greetings
format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble
Amateur exegesis hour again, I see.
The context is not saying men are 'gods', it is referring to the fact that God has appointed human judges who are expected to carry out their God given responsibilities in a dignified God-like manner.
is this your opinion or the interpretation of the Christian scholars.
is this your opinion or the interpretation of the Christian scholars.
It's one of several interpretations all of which go back to the early Jewish commentators. I won't try and detail them as it's rather out of my depth; I don't know Hebrew; and you really need to for that purpose. As an additional complication the whole thing is linked in with Jesus' comments on it (and how they should be interpreted) in John 10.
Suffice to say it is far too simplistic to interpret the verse quoted as a simple statement that mortals are gods, or as some sort of denial of monotheism.
our and we is the majestic term someone uses on themself, Allah says we and us in the Quran, the queen says it to, go ask any jew and he will tell you that
Shalom,
Completely correct on your part. The Torah has no such teaching of anything but monotheism however the pagans will try to deceive us as always.
Psalm 82:6 says:
I said, "You are angelic creatures, and all of you are angels of the Most High."
Rashi Comments: You are angelic creatures Angels. When I gave you the Torah, I gave it to you on the condition that the Angel of Death should not rule over you.
The next verse (7) states:
Indeed, as man, you will die
What may confuse some is the way the Tanakh refers to G-d. Sometimes it will refer to him as for example, with the word "the L-rd". Yet the word "Lord" can refer to a "lord of the castle" as well.
I will finish this post with this verse in the Torah:
Who made the above statement? Who were you quoting from?
I am getting to hate that word "preach" I guess it is because of the connotation you give it. I just don't see why you say that. I am not making up the Scriptures I share. I am saying things according to the Scripture in the Bible. I am not telling you or anyone what to believe nor am I cutting down Islam. There is absolutely nothing you can say to me that would disturb or upset me from the Koran. There must be a lot of power and truth to cause someone to go through all the trouble to unjustly charge me 10 points, whatever that means, for making an honest mistake of sharing on the wrong post. I have done this before and the thread was simply moved to the appropriate location. Why is everything different all of a sudden? Is it because the truth hurts? Why not just answ3er the question rather than punish someone unjustly. You send someone or another moderator who doesn't know me to put a 10 point charge against me. Do you think that Allah doesn't see what you are doing to me? I commit my actions on this forum to His judgment.
Completely correct on your part. The Torah has no such teaching of anything but monotheism however the pagans will try to deceive us as always.
Psalm 82:6 says:
I said, "You are angelic creatures, and all of you are angels of the Most High."
Rashi Comments: You are angelic creatures Angels. When I gave you the Torah, I gave it to you on the condition that the Angel of Death should not rule over you.
The next verse (7) states:
Indeed, as man, you will die
What may confuse some is the way the Tanakh refers to G-d. Sometimes it will refer to him as for example, with the word "the L-rd". Yet the word "Lord" can refer to a "lord of the castle" as well.
I will finish this post with this verse in the Torah:
"Hear O' Israel the L-rd is our G-d, the L-rd is one!"
In the Bible, there is a plural name for God Elohim and a singular one. Tell who was God talking to when He said let US make man in our image and likeness?
lol.. this is easy from an Arabic perspective US or We is used to denote respect and formality-- and I don't imagine it any different in Hebrew.. why don't you study the bible in Aramaic maybe things would make more sense to you then?
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
I know that I have eternal life, but you are not sure you have it.
I am not trying to preach, but I am trying to scratch down deep enough to find the truth
i don't understand. it sounds to me like you already know "the Truth".
what was it you were looking for here?
each man thinks of his own fleas as gazelles
question authority
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