Since Jesus was taken up alive into heaven, according to Islamic beliefs, then what is the Islamic view of Christ's Resurrection from the dead? Did Christ descend from heaven to appear to the Apostles on the third day?
There are several theories that could explain the Resurrection, but Christians have refuted them all, and it seems that the Resurrection of Christ is an undeniable fact.
(The swoon theory, that Jesus never died, is refuted by the Qur'an, so I will not put it here)
The Apostles testified that Christ died and rose from the dead. If Christ did not rise, then they were either deceived or deceivers.
If the Apostles were deceivers:
(1) Blaise Pascal writes: "The apostles were either deceived or deceivers. Either supposition is difficult, for it is not possible to imagine that a man has risen from the dead. While Jesus was with them, he could sustain them; but afterwards, if he did not appear to them, who did make them act? The hypothesis that the Apostles were knaves is quite absurd. Follow it out to the end, and imagine these twelve men meeting after Jesus' death and conspiring to say that he has risen from the dead. This means attacking all the powers that be. The human heart is singularly susceptible to fickleness, to change, to promises, to bribery. One of them had only to deny his story under these inducements, or still more because of possible imprisonment, tortures and death, and they would all have been lost. Follow that out." (Pascal, Pensees 322, 310)
The "cruncher" in this argument is the historical fact that no one, weak or strong, saint or sinner, Christian or heretic, ever confessed, freely or under pressure, bribe or even torture, that the whole story of the resurrection was a fake a lie, a deliberate deception. Even when people broke under torture, denied Christ and worshiped Caesar, they never let that cat out of the bag, never revealed that the resurrection was their conspiracy. For that cat was never in that bag. No Christians believed the resurrection was a conspiracy; if they had, they wouldn't have become Christians.
(2) If they made up the story, they were the most creative, clever, intelligent fantasists in history, far surpassing Shakespeare, or Dante or Tolkien. Fisherman's "fish stories" are never that elaborate, that convincing, that life-changing, and that enduring.
(3) The disciples' character argues strongly against such a conspiracy on the part of all of them, with no dissenters. They were simple, honest, common peasants, not cunning, conniving liars. They weren't even lawyers! Their sincerity is proved by their words and deeds. They preached a resurrected Christ and they lived a resurrected Christ. They willingly died for their "conspiracy." Nothing proves sincerity like martyrdom. They change in their lives from fear to faith, despair to confidence, confusion to certitude, runaway cowardice to steadfast boldness under threat and persecution, not only proves their sincerity but testifies to some powerful cause of it. Can a lie cause such a transformation? Are truth and goodness such enemies that the greatest good in history -- sanctity -- has come from the greatest lie?
(4) There could be no possible motive for such a lie. Lies are always told for some selfish advantage. What advantage did the "conspirators" derive from their "lie" ? They were hated, scorned, persecuted, excommunicated, imprisoned, tortured, exiled, crucified, boiled alive, roasted, beheaded, disemboweled and fed to lions -- hardly a catalog of perks!
If the Apostles were deceived:
If you thought you saw a dead man walking and talking, wouldn't you think it more likely that you were hallucinating than that you were seeing correctly? Why then not think the same thing about Christ's resurrection?
(1) There were too many witnesses. Hallucinations are private, individual, subjective. Christ appeared to Mary Magdalene, to the disciples minus Thomas, to the disciples including Thomas, to the two disciples at Emmaus, to the fisherman on the shore, to James (his "brother" or cousin), and even to five hundred people at once (1 Cor 15:3-8). Even three different witnesses are enough for a kind of psychological trigonometry; over five hundred is about as public as you can wish. And Paul says in this passage (v. 6) that most of the five hundred are still alive, inviting any reader to check the truth of the story by questioning the eyewitnesses -- he could never have done this and gotten away with it, given the power, resources and numbers of his enemies, if it were not true.
(2) The witnesses were qualified. They were simple, honest, moral people who had firsthand knowledge of the facts.
(3) The five hundred saw Christ together, at the same time and place. This is even more remarkable than five hundred private "hallucinations" at different times and places of the same Jesus. Five hundred separate Elvis sightings may be dismissed, but if five hundred simple fishermen in Maine saw, touched and talked with him at once, in the same town, that would be a different matter. (The only other dead person we know of who is reported to have appeared to hundreds of qualified and skeptical eyewitnesses at once is Mary the mother of Jesus [at Fatima, to 70,000]. And that was not a claim of physical resurrection but of a vision.)
(4) Hallucinations usually last a few seconds or minutes; rarely hours. This one hung around for forty days (Acts 1:3).
(5) Hallucinations usually happen only once, except to the insane. This one returned many times, to ordinary people (Jn 20:19-21:14; Acts 1:3).
(6) Hallucinations come from within, from what we already know, at least unconsciously. This one said and did surprising and unexpected things (Acts 1:4,9) -- like a real person and unlike a dream.
(7) Not only did the disciples not expect this, they didn't even believe it at first -- neither Peter, nor the women, nor Thomas, nor the eleven. They thought he was a ghost; he had to eat something to prove he was not (Lk 24:36-43).
(8) Hallucinations do not eat. The resurrected Christ did, on at least two occasions (Lk 24:42-43; Jn 21:1-14).
(9) The disciples touched him (Mt 28:9; Lk 24:39; Jn 20:27).
(10) They also spoke with him, and he spoke back. Figments of your imagination do not hold profound, extended conversations with you, unless you have the kind of mental disorder that isolates you. But this "hallucination" conversed with at least eleven people at once, for forty days (Acts 1:3).
The other theory is that the Resurrection was a myth added later to the stories of Christ. The refutations for this are too long to post here (this post is already long enough!) but you can read them on the site posted above.
Hi Michael
It seems rather simple to me. If he didn't die in the first place, then he didn't have to get resurrected in order for the apostles to see him after his double was killed on the cross. Am I missing something?
Michael, the answer is that Islamic belief and Christian belief about Jesus are completely different. Trying to find some consistency between them is impossible.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
Michael, the answer is that Islamic belief and Christian belief about Jesus are completely different. Trying to find some consistency between them is impossible.
Yes, I know that. But it seems to be a historical fact that Jesus either 1) rose from the dead, or 2) appeared to His Apostles after they thought He had died. Either way, the Apostles genuinely thought that He had risen from the dead.
Since Jesus was taken up alive into heaven, according to Islamic beliefs, then what is the Islamic view of Christ's Resurrection from the dead? Did Christ descend from heaven to appear to the Apostles on the third day?
Jesus was saved, he never died. How could we talk about any resurrection if he didn't die? Michael, this question of yours, is a tricky question and is used by christians that are trying to confuse muslims.
Jesus NEVER said that he was dead, and he resurrected, nowhere is this written in the books of NT, Jesus walking in this earth, NEVER said that.
Why should be believe that he was dead, and resurrected!
Yes, I know that. But it seems to be a historical fact that Jesus either 1) rose from the dead, or 2) appeared to His Apostles after they thought He had died. Either way, the Apostles genuinely thought that He had risen from the dead.
and yes, another thing. WHY you use this EITHER? why you are posting this kind of questions? EITHER this, EITHER that !!
You know, many christian missionery are saying:
Jesus EITHER was God, EITHER lunatic. From when is Lunatic oposite of God? WHY you are doing this? why you are formulating this kind of questions? EITHER this, EITHER that .. ! you are trying to make us answer a question where you give two opinions, EITHER he was God, EITHER he was Lunatic. We muslims can't say that Jesus was Lunatic, neither we can se he was God, and you keep on asking us these kind of tricky questions.
Please brother Michael, you can get NOWHERE with this.
Yes, I know that. But it seems to be a historical fact that Jesus either 1) rose from the dead, or 2) appeared to His Apostles after they thought He had died. Either way, the Apostles genuinely thought that He had risen from the dead.
historical? any comtemporary source outside of the bible?
See where Im getting? This is just another evidence piece, just skimming through them, I can see most of it is opiniated. Evidence =/= proof in this case.
A funny piece, contradicting Christian belief in their disbelief in our Prophet are the following:
If they made up the story, they were the most creative, clever, intelligent fantasists in history, far surpassing Shakespeare, or Dante or Tolkien. Fisherman's "fish stories" are never that elaborate, that convincing, that life-changing, and that enduring.
The disciples' character argues strongly against such a conspiracy on the part of all of them, with no dissenters. They were simple, honest, common peasants, not cunning, conniving liars. They weren't even lawyers! Their sincerity is proved by their words and deeds
There could be no possible motive for such a lie. Lies are always told for some selfish advantage
Theres more, but you can see - Our prophet exalted all those characteristics, yet somehow he lied about Isa's (RA) death and Islam aswell, he also aswell must be far surpassing Shakespeare by creating the Qur'an being illiterate? Despite his honestly, integrity, modesty, he was slyly creating rules to help mankind for some selfish advantage?
Last edited by Md Mashud; 09-01-2007 at 02:15 PM.
Fight in the way of God, against those who fight against you, drive them out of the places they have drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. Fight them, until persecution is no more, and Religion is for God. But if they stop, let there be no war.
Yes, I know that. But it seems to be a historical fact that Jesus either 1) rose from the dead, or 2) appeared to His Apostles after they thought He had died. Either way, the Apostles genuinely thought that He had risen from the dead.
Depends what gospel you are referring to. In the (undoctered) Gospel of Mark, it never mentions Jesus reserrecting. It ends off on a sad note and the ending is left to the reader.
Anyways, as Keltoi mentioned, there is a world of difference between the Christian and Islamic mythos regarding Jesus. You are comparing an Apple to an Orange
1- The Apostles testified that Christ died and rose from the dead. If Christ did not rise, then they were either deceived or deceivers.
2-The "cruncher" in this argument is the historical fact that no one, weak or strong, saint or sinner, Christian or heretic, ever confessed, freely or under pressure, bribe or even torture, that the whole story of the resurrection was a fake a lie, a deliberate deception.
(3) If they made up the story, they were the most creative, clever, intelligent fantasists in history, far surpassing Shakespeare, or Dante or Tolkien. Fisherman's "fish stories" are never that elaborate, that convincing, that life-changing, and that enduring.
(4) They willingly died for their "conspiracy." Nothing proves sincerity like martyrdom.
(5) There could be no possible motive for such a lie. Lies are always told for some selfish advantage. What advantage did the "conspirators" derive from their "lie" ?
(6) There were too many witnesses. witnesses are enough for a kind of psychological trigonometry; over five hundred is about as public as you can wish. And Paul says in this passage (v. 6) that most of the five hundred are still alive, inviting any reader to check the truth of the story by questioning the eyewitnesses .
(7) The witnesses were qualified. They were simple, honest, moral people who had firsthand knowledge of the facts.
(9) Not only did the disciples not expect this, they didn't even believe it at first neither Peter, nor the women, nor Thomas, nor the eleven. They thought he was a ghost; he had to eat something to prove he was not (Lk 24:36-43).
(10)The other theory is that the Resurrection was a myth added later to the stories of Christ. The refutations for this are too long to post here (this post is already long enough!) but you can read them on the site posted above.
Can anyone help me with this?
Greetings: A point by point comment:
The writer argues:
( 1- The Apostles testified that Christ died and rose from the dead. If Christ did not rise, then they were either deceived or deceivers. )
What Apostles testified that Christ died and rose from the dead?
2-(The "cruncher" in this argument is the historical fact that no one, weak or strong,Christian or heretic, ever confessed, that the whole story of the resurrection was a fake a lie.
What about those so called heretics who denied the crucifiction?
"'He whom you saw on the tree, glad and laughing, this is the living Jesus. But this one into whose hands and feet they drive the nails is his fleshly part, which is the substitute being put to shame, the one who came into being in his likeness. But look at him and me.' The Apocalypse of Peter. http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/apopet.html
3- (Fisherman's "fish stories" are never that elaborate, that convincing, that life-changing)
that is absured,the eastern myths that changed the life of hundred of thousands of millions eg,The Krishna myth, were grown among the same type of those simple minded eg; fishermen etc....people who eager to believe in such interesting stories.
4- They willingly died for their "conspiracy." Nothing proves sincerity like martyrdom.
The writer needs to
1-prove that those who been killed are those the same who invented the story,not those who believed the hearsay and believed it.
It seems that he never heard about those who believed a lie and died for it....if so I suggest that he consult a history book to read about those who have been victimized by believing in and killed for a lie.
(5-There could be no possible motive for such a lie. . What advantage did the "conspirators" derive from their "lie" ? )
The same advantages that motivated ,The other myth makers....
1-They thought that by their lie the the truth of God abounded to His glory.
in other words,the ends justifies the means .
or
2- Seeking religious legitimacy,Statue .
(6) There were too many witnesses. witnesses are enough for a kind of psychological trigonometry; over five hundred . And Paul says in this passage (v. 6) that most of the five hundred are still alive, inviting any reader to check the truth of the story by questioning the eyewitnesses .
Unfortunately, though many of these witnesses could have been sought out in Paul's day, they were left unnamed.
the failure of Paul to give the names of any of these 500 witnesses is a major weakness in the claim.
(7) The witnesses were qualified. They were simple, honest, moral people who had firsthand knowledge of the facts.
What a wild assertion !!!! documentations?
(8) Not only did the disciples not expect this, they didn't even believe it at first neither Peter, nor the women, nor Thomas, nor the eleven. They thought he was a ghost; he had to eat something to prove he was not (Lk 24:36-43).
and that is What we should wonder about:
Jesus
Matthew 20:18 "See, we are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be handed over to the chief priests and scribes, and they will condemn him to death.19 then they will hand him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified; and on the third day he will be raised [anasthesetai]."
Matthew 17:9 As they [Jesus, Peter, John, and James] were coming down the mountain, Jesus ordered them, "Tell no one about the vision until after the Son of Man has been raised from the dead."
If They had really believed what Jesus had said in those places where he promised that he would rise again on the third day, why would they have been at all amazed at seeing the burial cloths in an empty tomb?
If Jesus(The miracles maker,The Raiser of the Dead ) had told his disciples several times that he would arise from the dead after three days, why did they dismiss the report of the women as "idle talk"?
(10)The other theory is that the Resurrection was a myth added later to the stories of Christ. The refutations for this are too long to post here (this post is already long enough!) but you can read them on the site posted above.
If God can create the universe and life, then he can raise Jesus from the dead. This is more to do with faith in God, and we cannot prove that God exists as our atheist friends will explain at great length.
When you read the Bible as a whole, it only makes sense if Jesus rose from the dead.
If God can create the universe and life, then he can raise Jesus from the dead. This is more to do with faith in God, and we cannot prove that God exists as our atheist friends will explain at great length.
When you read the Bible as a whole, it only makes sense if Jesus rose from the dead.
In the spirit of searching
Eric
i dont think many atheists care about proving anything. however many want even the slightest evidence.
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