The Sign of Muhammad in Deuteronomy

format_quote Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl

Sorry, i'm a little bit lost here. Who wrote that quote and what is it referring to?

The quote was showing some examples of Joshua/Yehoshua bin Nun's leadership. It was from a private email exchange. Also the below show some examples of Yehoshua being like Moses. Both were commands given by G-d through Yehoshua.

Yehoshua (bin Nun) composed the second
paragraph/blessing of the Jewish grace after bread.
(Moses composed the first paragraph/blessing.)

After the walls of Jericho were miraculously destroyed
and the city was captured by Yehoshua's army, it was
decreed that the city should never again be rebuilt.

There is another point which is being briefly discussed here. Some Jews assert that the prophecy relates to and is fulfilled in the person of Joshua. But the wording of the prophecy and the context do not permit it. Joshua was the contemporary of and junior to Moses. Moses himself had nominated him as his successor under the instruction of the Lord. He was a disciple, attendant, and successor of Moses and not an independent prophet himself. No "Law" was revealed unto him. So he was in no way 'like unto Moses'. The words of the prophecy, 'The Lord thy God will raise up unto thee a prophet from the midst of thee, of thy Brethren, like unto me;' clearly denote that they relate to some future event, whereas Joshua physically existed there when this prophecy was uttered. The book of Malachi is the last of the Minor Prophets and of the OT. It records the prophecy uttered by the Lord in the following words [which shows that the messenger of the covenant was yet to come by his time, and, as such, Joshua could not have been this "a prophet"

Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me; and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come[29] to his temple[30], even the messenger of the covenant [stress added] whom ye delight in; behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts.[31]

As to the date of Malachi, 'McKenzie' observes:

The book is dated by the critics after the rebuilding of the temple in 516 BC, during the Persian period and before the reforms of Nehemiah and Ezta, i.e., before 432 BC.[32]

The recording of the prophecy regarding 'the messenger of the covenant' in it shows that till 432 BC the Israelites were still waiting for him and he was yet to come.


Then there is the epilogue of the book of Deuteronomy which reads,

And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face.[33]


It is probable that this epilogue might have been written by Ezra eight to nine hundred years after Moses. So the prophecy remained unfulfilled till 8-9 centuries after Moses. It is also probable that it might have been written by some other redactor of the book when the Torah and some other books of the Bible were first compiled in written form about five hundred years after Moses. It means that the prophecy remained unfulfilled for not less than 500 years after Moses. It does not mean that it was fulfilled after it. Nobody ever claimed to be 'the messenger of the covenant' or fulfilled its pre-requisites at any time after Moses. Almost every scholar of the Bible understands that it stood unfulfilled even after the time of Jesus Christ. The Bible Knowledge Commentary observes,

During the first century A.D. the official leaders of Judaism were still looking for the fulfillment of Moses' prediction (cf. John I: 21).[34]

That it remained unfulfilled during the time of Jesus Christ and the Jews were still waiting for the coming of this prophet, can be ascertained from the following passage of the Gospel According To John:

And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou? And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ. And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet [stress added]? And he answered, No. Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself? He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias. (...). And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet?[35]

It has become clear from the study undertaken above that this 'Prophet like unto Moses' had not been raised up till the time of Jesus Christ.

[29] The actual Hebrew word used for this 'come' is avb (a?v?b), which can be pronounced as bow'. According to Strong's 'A Concise Dictionary of the words in the Hebrew Bible', p. 19, entry No. 935 it means: "to go or come (in a wide variety of applications):-abide, befall, beseige, go (down, in, to war), [in-]vade, lead." It shows that 'the messenger of the covenant (it may be noted here that Jesus never claimed for himself to be the messenger of the covenant)' 'shall suddenly go down to war, besiege, and invade his temple'. It is a true and exact picture of the Prophet of Islam's conquest of Makkah'. No other prophet ever 'came so triumphantly and suddenly to his temple' as did the prophet of Islam, Muhammad (pbuh) come.
[30] How clearly and unequivocally came this prophecy true in the person of the Prophet of Islam, Muhammad (pbuh)! He secretly came upon his Temple, Ka'bah, in the city of Makkah, at the time of its conquest, so that it be conquered without any battle and bloodshed. The Makkans came to know about the arrival of Muhammad at the head of an army of ten thousand holy ones only when he had reached the gate of the city and the city was taken without any bloodshed. This is what Malachi had said, 'shall suddenly come to his temple.'
[31] KJV, Malachi III: 1, p. 745.
[32] J.L. McKenzie, DB, Geoffrey Chapman, London, 1984, p. 537.
[33] KJV, Deu. XXXIV: 10 p. 195.
[34] The B Knowledge C, Ed John F. Walvoord & R. B. Zuck, SP Publications, Inc., Weaton, Illinois, 3rd Ed, 1986, p. 297.
[35] KJV, John, I: 19-25, p. 82.

Source:
http://www.understanding-islam.org/r...75&sscatid=567

Joshua was Moses' friend, contemporary, and sucessor. Like Moses he gave the people the Torah, and led them into the land of Israel. He also established new rules.

Joshua 3:7 "...This day will I begin to magnify thee in the sight of all Yisra'el, that they may know that, as I was with Moshe, so I will be with thee (Yehoshua)..."

I suspect he refers to:

Deut. 34.:
10. And there was no other prophet who arose in Israel like Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face,
11. as manifested by all the signs and wonders, which the Lord had sent him to perform in the land of Egypt, to Pharaoh and all his servants, and to all his land,
12. and all the strong hand, and all the great awe, which Moses performed before the eyes of all Israel.

things similar to the bible codes can be found in a variety of texts. They don't constitute adequete proof of anything.

No one thinks that Joshua was greater than Moses. He was a prophet like Moses, as is shown in the verses from the book of Joshua. I could compare it to the Kymco People 250 scooter and the Kymco People 150 scooter. They are very similar in nature, and the 150 and the 250 versions are like each other, but the 250 version is much better than the less powerful 150.

The following book has a section that discusses prophecies of Muhammad saws in the Bible:
http://www.voiceforislam.com/Pdfs/In...e_Of_Islam.pdf

No, Mohammed is not prophecied in Dueteronomy. Nor is Jesus, as the Christians will tell you. It refers to any "true" prophet. On a website I once ran, I had the following:

Christians often point to Devarim 18:18 as a Messianic Prophecy of Jesus. Similarly, Muslims claim that it is a prophecy of Mohammed. This article will examine the claims of both, and show that the text is not refferring to a single prophet in paticular; but rather, it is describing prophets (as a whole).

Lets first examine the text

A prophet from among you, from your brothers, like me, the L-rd, your G-d will set up for you you shall hearken to him... I will set up a prophet for them from among their brothers like you, and I will put My words into his mouth, and he will speak to them all that I command him. And it will be, that whoever does not hearken to My words that he speaks in My name, I will exact [it] of him (Devarim 18:15,18-19, Judaica Press Translation)

The question now is whether the text refers to a specific prophet, or simply prophets in general. The answer is both. The text refers to an Israelite, as it says "from among their brothers, like you". Here, Moses identifies the prophet(s) as being Israelite by the term brothers (cross-reference Devarim 17:14-15), and reinforces this when he says "like you." However, the verse does not speak of a single prophet in paticular. It simply speaks of "a prophet";it could be similarly be paraphrased as "G-d will send you prophets and put words into their mouths...."

Continuing in the same manner of verses 18 & 19, verses 20-22 speak of false prophets, but no one assumes that it is speaking of a specific person! However, let us hypothetically assume that this proof-text does indeed refer to a single person. If, hypothetically, the text did refer to a single person, it could only be Yehoshua (Joshua) ben Nun - Moses' successor.

No man shall be able to stand before thee all the days of thy life: as I was with Moshe, so I will be with thee [Yehoshua]: I will not fail thee nor forsake thee. Yehoshua 1:5

And HaShem said to Yehoshua, This day will I begin to magnify thee in the sight of all Yisra'el, that they may know that, as I was with Moshe, so I will be with thee. Yehoshua 3:7

Yehoshua was an Israelite successor of Moses chosen by G-d, fulfilling the requirements of verse 15. He taught the will of HaShem to the people, fulfilling the requirements of verse 18.

In summary, this proof-text can refer to any Israelite prophet. It does not refer to a single prophet in specific, nor is there any indication that it is a messianic prophecy. However, if it was to speak of a single prophet, the requirements of the text were fulfilled by Moses' successor, Yehoshua.

Thread merged.

I think we've discussed this already.