Is it considered an act of evil to not believe in the Prophet Muhammad and the one God? Are there any general situations where it would not be considered evil?
This is a very strange question.. People can be good or evil with or without religion.
strong beliefs may influence your behavior but not an indication of goodness..
Last edited by جوري; 06-29-2012 at 05:30 PM.
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Is it considered an act of evil to not believe in the Prophet Muhammad and the one God? Are there any general situations where it would not be considered evil?
people are people, some are guided to the truth and some are astray.
there are people with good traits in every walk of life,
but once you research the facts and come to the realization that the Quran is from Almighty God, and that the Prophet pbuh is His last messenger,
you either accept the truth for what it is or reject it and thus become a true kafir (one who covers).
there are many straying in between that too who are still disbelievers of a different quality.
let me give you an example,
it is almost universally accepted that rape or murder is illegal
if despite the law, someone considers it to be ok, would they not be considered a criminal?
and would the crime be an embodiment of evil?
in the same way, Almighty God sets out a code of conduct for the people of this earth, and those who break those laws are called Al Mujrimun in the Quran, i.e criminals who break the law.
but even among these crimes there are smaller crimes and bigger crimes, and crimes out of heedlessness or good intention.
even believers fall into sins, but we are instructed to repent and come back to the path.
i don't know how else to explain it, maybe someone else can add more.
Is it considered an act of evil to not believe in the Prophet Muhammad and the one God? Are there any general situations where it would not be considered evil?
Heathens!!!
Ahem. Sorry I lost my composure there for a second.
In a nutshell, yes it is among the worst acts of evil. However no non-Muslim is forced to believe in this.
The only exception is if one didn't know about the Prophet Muhammed , but that is hardly the case today.
Last edited by 'Abd-al Latif; 06-29-2012 at 08:57 AM.
And verily for everything that a slave loses there is a substitute, but the one who loses Allah will never find anything to replace Him.” [Related by Ibn al-Qayyim in ad-Dâ' wad-Dawâ Fasl 49]
Actually, the concept of evil in islam itself can be discussed. What is "evil"?
In Islam we don't necessarily have a "Good VS Evil" thing going on or "God VS Devil".
What we do have is justice and injustice. We also have adab. Which means "etiquette" but the meaning is far deeper than what one might think.
Are non-muslims considered unjust? Well not really but those who know the truth yet reject it is unjust. What is the truth? Well obviously from our perspective the truth is Islam. But how does one see the truth?
If I go up to a non-muslim and I tell him "hey my religion is the truth, do you accept or reject?". Is that presenting him with the truth or just telling him that I have the truth? This is why knowledge/ilm is very important. Only with sound knowledge can we properly present others with the truth. On the receiving hand however what they require is an open heart and some humility.
If someone is arrogant, egoistic, do you think they are willing to admit that what they believe is wrong and what you believe is right?
As muslims however it's not in our place to point out specifically, for example, I go up to a non-muslim and straight up say to him "YOU'RE GOING TO HELL". I can't say that because I simply don't know. He might be guided in the future. One of the arabs during the Prophet's (pbuh) time; Abu Sufyan. It took him years to accept Islam. I don't think anyone came up to him before he converted and said something like "YOU'RE GOING TO HELL!".
Thank you for your answers! This topic is of particular interest to me because it deals with what exactly is considered injustice or evil, and what isn't. Please forgive me if some of the things I say offends the audience. In no way do I intend to discredit Islam or other belief systems.
From what I can gather, the majority of you agree with one another that non-muslims are not discriminately considered evil from Muslims. I hoped this was the belief most of you would adhere to, however there were some differences in opinions. Therefore I will have to address the two different groups separately.
These are generally the summarizations of the majority:
-A non-Muslim is not evil because he/she is lost.
-People can be good or evil with or without religion.
-The ones who are considered evil are those who are unjust, oppressive.
-You either accept the truth for what it is or reject it and thus become a true kafir.
-The breaking of universally accepted laws is injustice.
-Those presented the truth in a meaningful way, and continue to reject it due to arrogance, are committing injustice.
This is the summarization of the minority:
-Yes it is among the worst acts of evil, unless the person does not know of Prophet Muhammad's existence.
I have another question directly related to this, if none of you mind.
(this is directed to the first group)
If someone rejected Islam, not out of arrogance or any intentional evil, but instead being convinced in there being another truth, are they still considered unjust?
For example, say someone was born a Christian, or perhaps born into an irreligious environment. If they believe in philosophies that differ from Muslims due to their own upbringing and culture, would it still be considered unjust?
Let us assume that his or her reasons for the rejection of Islam is not arrogance, a closed heart, or a lack of information, but instead feels that the information was simply not adequate to convince. Examples of people in this situation may be:
-atheists, who don't agree with some of Islam's views from a logical point of view
-strong believers in science, who reject that which does not have proof
-the faithful in other religions, such as Christianity and Judaism, who believe their religion is the truth (for the same reason Muslims believe Islam is the truth; faith, cultural background, scholarship, etc.)
Does Islam have a sympathetic view for them? Or, like I asked in the question above, are they considered unjust?
Bro I believe what abdal latif said is not very different from what the"majority" of us said. Which is why I mentioned the concept of "evil" in Islam. If he had used the word "injustice" instead of "evil" it would have fallen in line with the "majority".
I apologise for not being able to give a long detailed answer but the short answer is.. We must use our intellect. Learn.. gain knowledge. Only then can we make sound decisions. Many atheists reject a belief in God but if you talk to them about their concept of God it is basically "an invisible man in the sky". Which has nothing to do with Islam's belief in God.
They are "convinced" but that doesn't mean they've thought it through. This is why knowledge and humility are very important. Anyway, I gtg!
You are assuming that with intellect, you arrive to the conclusion that Islam is the truth. Whether that in reality is actually reached is not what I want to ask. But in my post above yours, I've already stated that the situation I am asking about is not the one you addressed. The person is convinced, and they have thought it through. They have knowledge about Islam. They do not, as you say, believe Islam is about a man in the sky. Rejecting Islam does not mean the person is incompetent or misunderstanding what it represents, let this be clear. Some fully understand the philosophies of Islam and reject it because of it not convincing them, due to factors I've stated in my post.
The fact of the matter is is that the greatest minds in human history debated the topics of religion. If there was an obvious logical path that leads to Islam, everyone would already be Muslim. Most of the world believes that the path is not so obvious as some claim, which is a contributing reason[but not the only reason] to why we have atheists, irreligious scientists, Christians and Jews, Buddhists and Hindus and Animists. The greatest minds in the world were not religious, I assure you, and to say their intellect was not enough to see the so-called obvious path is to say that nearly no one on Earth has the capacity.
Nonetheless, if you still insist that a lack of intellect is the culprit, then let us add one more assumption to our situation:
The person found all the information he was able to, and analyzed it to the best of his ability. And he was convinced there was another truth.
Please do not label this person as incompetent, arrogant, untruthful, spiritually blind, or any other character flaw that, as I've established in this situation, is simply not the case. Please do make an effort to not ignore that.
What does Islam say about these people? - those who have thought through it with an open heart with clear and thorough intellectual thought, not simply rejecting it because of arrogance or humility or a lack of intellect as you suggested.
What does Islam say about these people? - those who have thought through it with an open heart with clear and thorough intellectual thought, not simply rejecting it because of arrogance or humility or a lack of intellect as you suggested.
Is it a self-assessment of intellect and open heart? Other parties would have to judge that progression and reasoning no? You can't award yourself a degree in engineering nor can you assess your own IQ, or your own beauty or your bravery or your suffering compared only to self thus rendering the question moot.
The question can only be deemed valid through formal debates & presentations, so you're not looking for validation from an Islamic point of view. If a person reasoned through intellect that Islam isn't the truth, they don't really need the stamp of approval- do they?
It is a weakness in the intellect itself to have made a solid conclusion yet seek constantly to have it validated by the party it set out to disprove.
best,
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
an addendum to what I have just written. Simply your assurance that the greatest minds weren't religious is equally null & void for more reasons than anyone cares to count!
Allah SWT didn't set Islam as a judge of character rather as a guidance for mankind.
Imagine yourself wanting to be a doctor, and so you enroll in 'Holistic Medicine' -but no one wants to license or hire you.. you've set out on the right course but you get no recognition. It doesn't seem fair, but everything alludes that if you want to practice conventional medicine you've to do certain steps which you've bypassed reasoning what you've learned is equally valid. You can live a perfectly good life with the path you've chosen with those who agree that the brand of medicine you practice is good and sound. Of course this is merely an analogy.
If the hereafter is the reward and this life is a big exam, then it is best not to waste it going on various byways. But given your free will you are most welcome to. Can't complain at the end when the final result is to your liking, nor can you look around for people to seek approval from, since this isn't a people matter. This is a journey between you and God.
Everyone gets their chance at truth and it is up to them what they do with it. Surely you can conceive that weed grows side by side harvest...but what is cultivated in the end or what is of use in the end..
best,
Last edited by جوري; 06-30-2012 at 03:31 PM.
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
What does Islam say about these people? - those whohave thought through it with an open heart with clear and thorough intellectual thought, not simply rejecting it because of arrogance or humility or a lack of intellect as you suggested.
I have certainly met people like that. Not necessarily with regards to Islam in particular, but with regards to believing in God per se.
Atheists who have said that they wished they COULD believe in God and feel the way believers feel about God, but who - with the best will in the world - could not come to a point where their intellect would allow them to believe in something they could not see, perceive or scientifically demonstrate to exist.
Last edited by Insaanah; 06-30-2012 at 09:38 PM.
Reason: Last two sentences deleted, as the question is about the Islamic viewpoint.
Peace glo
Here I stand.
I can do no other.
May God help me.
Amen.
Come, let us worship and bow down •
and kneel before the Lord our Maker
[Psalm 95]
to منوة الخيال
You avoided the question entirely in your first and second post. Please do not concern over why someone would want to know the answer to the question, just answer it. I did not ask it to get approval for something from a religion you assumed I thought of as false. I never stated that the religion was false, nor did I say I wanted to seek approval from it for the sake of being approved by the religion. There is a deeper meaning to the question that you need not know, nor will you.
If someone has an answer to the question, please don't hesitate to give it. So far I have only been met with avoidance, and truthfully it is rather frustrating. Forgive me if I sound aggressive or rude, I just came back from a long trip and I'm tired tonight. It only adds to the stress and frustration.
منوة الخيال
I'm sorry I didn't include this in my previous post. But where did I claim the greatest minds in human history were irreligious? I stated that they debated religion, not necessarily rejecting it.
Both your questions Abraham were answered. I went back to have a look.
Not having an answer that echoes your points of views doesn't denote you weren't answered.
Q's aren't that difficult, they're philosophical and rhetorical- surely you can conceive that there's not one correct answer!
best,
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
The greatest minds in the world were not religious, I assure you
format_quote Originally Posted by Abraham7
منوة الخيال
I'm sorry I didn't include this in my previous post. But where did I claim the greatest minds in human history were irreligious? I stated that they debated religion, not necessarily rejecting it.
Perhaps it pays to read your own posts, before getting so exasperated on why others perceive them a certain way?
Um, no. The question has not been answered. Not in terms of whether Islam sees them as unjust. You're simply telling me I shouldn't waste my time with this, but I didn't ask for your opinion. Your analogies mean nothing to me until you have a clearly written statement saying what their purpose is. Telling me that "Everyone gets their chance at truth and it is up to them what they do with it" in no way helps to understand what Islam thinks of someone in the situation I've already described. Nor does your first post, which I found rather offensive.
And about the greatest minds not being religious. I see how it would be a gross interpretation to you. That was my error, I should have said many great minds were not religious, not all. If you thought I was implying that religion and great intellect are not compatible, then you've been mistaken. In fact I'm disappointed most people today don't recognize the contributions Muslims have made to science. I'm also disappointed that you're replying to me with insulting and belittling comments such as "Perhaps it pays to read your own posts, before getting so exasperated on why others perceive them a certain way?" I would appreciate it if this was not the mood we resort to. Like I said before, I don't mean to insult Islam nor its followers. In fact I believe Muslims are some of the most respectable people one can meet.
Any sign of disrespect I conveyed was either unintentional or incorrectly perceived. I don't know if the same can be said about your own posts. But from this point onwards let us not repeat that mistake.
If you truly believe you've answered my question with a clear statement, void of loosely related analogies or cloudy descriptions, that relates to just actions and the situation I described, then please restate it.
What does Islam say about these people? - those who have thought through it with an open heart with clear and thorough intellectual thought, not simply rejecting it because of arrogance or humility or a lack of intellect as you suggested.
Just because someone claims or even believes that they learned with an "open heart", are "intelligent", "humble" doesn't necessarily mean that they are. Don't you agree?
Even I don't see myself as being someone who is "knowledgable" and neither do many muslims, even teachers.. If you see yourself as "intelligent" then what makes you think you are humble? Being humble is to recognise that you are not knowledgable.
format_quote Originally Posted by Abraham7
If there was an obvious logical path that leads to Islam, everyone would already be Muslim
Fast food, cigarettes, drugs are "obviously bad". Yet they are popular. You are ignoring that human beings have a different side of themselves that can actually overcome their intellect. In Islam this term is called "nafs", the english word for it I guess is something along the lines of "lowly desires".
format_quote Originally Posted by Abraham7
The greatest minds in the world were not religious, I assure you, and to say their intellect was not enough to see the so-called obvious path is to say that nearly no one on Earth has the capacity.
If I had said that the only thing that is important is knowledge then you are right, but I also said humility. And just because someone is intelligent doesn't mean they've studied all religions. Even the concept of intelligence in itself can be broken down to the "type" of intelligence.
format_quote Originally Posted by Abraham7
The person found all the information he was able to, and analyzed it to the best of his ability. And he was convinced there was another truth.
Please do not label this person as incompetent, arrogant, untruthful, spiritually blind, or any other character flaw that, as I've established in this situation, is simply not the case. Please do make an effort to not ignore that.
Isn't it a form of arrogance to think of oneself as not having those flaws? Just because you claim or even think that you are of a particular character doesn't mean that you are.
in a nutshell:
1-Science can't prove or disprove God's existence- so it isn't a player in the way you've presented here. The premise itself is faulty!
2- God doesn't punish a people unless he sends them a messenger whom they reject. See Quranic verses on the matter.. Some people's tests of faith start on the day of recompense.
3- The question of Good or evil isn't left to human judgement
4- People who are good in this world but irreligious find their good deeds in this world as well.
best,
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
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