If your question was "is there any flaws within the muslims themselves?" then the answer would be :
Yes.
I hate to turn the table but....
... is there any flaw in the Christian faith?
I was pretty sure i posted back to this message, but no there is no flaw, in the Christian faith, (well the bible which im pretty sure you knew thats what christianity is based off of, but there isnt) and what are your views on Jesus? I am willing to discuss him with you.
Can someone educate me once again as to what happened, according to Islam, at the time of Jesus supposed crucifixion. I am especially interested in what took place afterward.
Which disciples knew that it was NOT Jesus on the cross?
I know the idea that it was Judas on the cross is not found in the Qur'an, where does this tradition come from? How widespread is its acceptance among casual Muslims?
When and how did the disciples find out that it was NOT Jesus who had died on the cross and what was their reaction?
Is it known where Jesus was during the time of the crucifixion?
What did Jesus and his disciples do after the crucifixion? Did Jesus continue to teach and preach, or did he just say "Good-bye" to them and that was pretty much it?
How long did Jesus remain on earth following the crucifixion?
I understand that Jesus was taken bodily to heaven and remains alive there. Did anyone see this take place? Was it like the Christian understanding of the ascension or was it by means of some divine "star trek" (don't take me literally) transporter or do we even know how it happened?
What is the Muslim response to Ahmadi views that Jesus had a family and lived out his life in India and then died there?
Besides that point, are there other significant difference between Islamic and Ahmadi beliefs with regards to the non-death of Jesus?
Last edited by Grace Seeker; 07-19-2007 at 07:21 PM.
Reason: grammar correction
I have really enjoyed reading this thread so far and have respect greatly for both of its main participants in being peacefully and mature in discussion.
I would be interested too in the answers to Grace Seekers questions.
I have really enjoyed reading this thread so far and have respect greatly for both of its main participants in being peacefully and mature in discussion.
I would be interested too in the answers to Grace Seekers questions.
I just now returned to this thread and had not really noticed Grace Seeker's Questions before.
I must admit they are valid questions and do deserve an answer. To be honest at the moment I am not up to getting into a long theological discussion so I am just posting this to move the thread up and hope some people more knowledgeable than I will reply to Grace Seeker's post.
I'd also really like to read the answer to Grace Seeker's question. I could possibly ask someone tonight for an answer, but it might be a very general answer (without quotations or verses). Otherwise, I will be going to s Muslimah study circle on Saturday, I could always ask then if no one has yet to provide an answer yet.
On a similar but slightly deviated subject, I wanted to know what people's reactions to these Jesus action figures are (they will be sold by Wal-Mart and include Jesus, Moses, Goliath, Samson, etc). Here's a link to a BBC article about it.
I just now returned to this thread and had not really noticed Grace Seeker's Questions before.
I must admit they are valid questions and do deserve an answer. To be honest at the moment I am not up to getting into a long theological discussion so I am just posting this to move the thread up and hope some people more knowledgeable than I will reply to Grace Seeker's post.
Do you think this question might receive more attention if it was posted in the "Questions about Islam" thread in Comparative Religion?
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
Do you think this question might receive more attention if it was posted in the "Questions about Islam" thread in Comparative Religion?
I was hoping for more than just personal opinion, but some sort of authorative "official" position. Or maybe we are not getting an answer because there isn't one. That would be good to know as well.
Can someone educate me once again as to what happened, according to Islam, at the time of Jesus supposed crucifixion. I am especially interested in what took place afterward.
I know the idea that it was Judas on the cross is not found in the Qur'an, where does this tradition come from?
most of the following ideas I posted before in various posts......I collected it here for the benefit....
such traditions (Substitution interpretation) come neither from the Quran nor authentic hadith,it come from a hearsay sources basically (Wahb ibn monabeh,Qatada,Ibn isaac)
more important ,apart from the question of the authenticity ,
accepting such interpretation would create unsolved grammatical problem:
That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them , and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not: Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.
[Qur'an 4:157
as if we put the pronoun (he) instead of (it) the meaning would be
he(jesus) appeared in another shape(another face ad body) for the jews !!!!!!!
and that exactly the opposite of such interpreatation ......
Imam Alzamakshari highlighted such issue in his great Quranic commentary (Alkashaf)
فإن قلت: { شُبّهَ } مسند إلى ماذا* ? * ؟ إن جعلته مسنداً إلى المسيح، فالمسيح مشبه به وليس بمشبه، وإن أسندته إلى المقتول فالمقتول لم يجر له ذكر قلت: هو مسند إلى الجار والمجرور وهو { لهم } كقولك خيل إليه، كأنه قيل: ولكن وقع لهم التشبيه.
In English:
If we say (he was substituted) then what (he) refers to?
if it refers to Jesus ,it can't be as the interpretation claims that God substituted for Jesus a person ....
and if (he) refers to a person ,so we have to find his name before the pronoun....
the meaning makes sense if only we use (it was appeared to them so)
another great commentator (Mohamed Asad,which I recommend highly using his interpretation as your first choice to understand the Quranic meanings) highlighted the same meaning:
The Qur’an categorically denies the story of the crucifixion of Jesus. There exist, among Muslims, many fanciful legends telling us that at the last moment God substituted for Jesus a person closely resembling him (according to some accounts, that person was Judas), who was subsequently crucified in his place. However, none of these legends finds the slightest support in the Qur’an or in authentic Traditions, and the stories produced in this connection by the classical commentators must be summarily rejected. They represent no more than confused attempts at "harmonizing" the Qur’anic statement that Jesus was not crucified with the graphic description, in the Gospels, of his crucifixion. The story of the crucifixion as such has been succinctly explained in the Qur’anic phrase wa-lakin shubbiha lahum, which I render as "but it only appeared to them as if it had been so" - implying that in the course of time, long after the time of Jesus, a legend had somehow grown up (possibly under the then-powerful influence of Mithraistic beliefs) to the effect that he had died on the cross in order to atone for the "original sin" with which mankind is allegedly burdened This, to my mind, is the only satisfactory explanation of the phrase wa-lakin shubbiha lahum, the more so as the expression shubbiha li is idiomatically synonymous with khuyyila 1i, "[a thing] became a fancied image to me", i.e., "in my mind" - in other words, "[it] seemed to me" (see Qamus, art. khayala, as well as Lane II, 833, and IV, 1500).
format_quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
When and how did the disciples find out that it was NOT Jesus who had died on the cross and what was their reaction?
see the above ........
format_quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
Is it known where Jesus was during the time of the crucifixion?
see the above ........
format_quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
What did Jesus and his disciples do after the crucifixion? Did Jesus continue to teach and preach, or did he just say "Good-bye" to them and that was pretty much it?
I provided a clear proof that the Quran calls the crucifiction ,a Jewish hearsay legend ,that been propagated by the Jews and been believed by some people (let's go far and say some of the disciples too) never witnessed anything ,nor verified the issue....
If the disciples never been told by Jesus "Good-bye" before the end of his mission on earth ,and Just Allah terminated his mission safely(without crucifiction),then the disciples could have believed the Jewish hostile,proud propaganda towards their enemy (they said in boast, We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary)
If so then we have here misinformed disciples ,regarding something very trivial to their faith (it is how the life of their teacher terminated)
in other words ,
What if the people (including even the disciples) believed the Jewish hearsay (‘We killed Christ Jesus The son of Mary) ? is such misinformation has any weight compared to what such (Great teacher of morals) preached....
a prophet,teacher,messiah etc to be killed is nothing astonishing neither for us nor for such people.....it was common
". Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it!" (Luke13:33-34)
format_quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
Are there other significant difference between Islamic and Ahmadi beliefs with regards to the non-death of Jesus?
They believe in the Swoon hypothesis(Jesus was crucified but did not die on the cross)
such interpretation is far-fetched
if the verse says: (but they killed him not, ............, but so it was made to appear to them ),then such interpretation would be possible....
format_quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
What is the Muslim response to Ahmadi views that Jesus had a family and lived out his life in India and then died there?
would be the same response to Mark,Luke,Matthew,John;Paul when claiming that Jesus was crucified.....
SOURCE,PLZ????
format_quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
How long did Jesus remain on earth following the crucifixion?
see the above...
Now there is another Question you should have asked;
What If the Holy Quran says that Jesus was killed ( by means of crucifiction,stoning etc…..) ?
would that bring the muslims to believe in the so called (blood atonment)?
Let’s imagine the Quranic verse like that
verse 4:156-159 “That they rejected Faith; That they uttered against Mary A grave false charge; and they killed Christ Jesus The son of Mary, The Messenger of Allah.
So what?
Jesus was a great prophet who was killed by the Jews ,just as some other prophets before him…………..
There would be no big deal about it…….
The Quran is of no need at all to negate the crucifixion in order to negate the (blood atonement)
the Quran is of no need to claim that jesus wasn't crucified to oppose the (blood atonment)
Please pardon my ingnorance if this is a stupid question.
If as King says Jesus was God and if you believe Jesus was crucified then can you please explain to me...
1. If he was powerful enough to create the universe and all the living things on it why was he then not capable of defending himself from a bunch of soldiers with primitive weapons?
2. If he was God and was killed by a human then that is a contrdiction in itself.
As said above my apologies if this is a silly question.
Please pardon my ingnorance if this is a stupid question.
If as King says Jesus was God and if you believe Jesus was crucified then can you please explain to me...
1. If he was powerful enough to create the universe and all the living things on it why was he then not capable of defending himself from a bunch of soldiers with primitive weapons?
2. If he was God and was killed by a human then that is a contrdiction in itself.
As said above my apologies if this is a silly question.
I will be more than happy to discuss Jesus in Christianity when the Comparitive Religions section opens again after Ramandan. But this thread is entitled "Jesus in Islam," so let us respect that intent.
Isa (Peace be upon Him) Is a Beautiful messenger of Allah SWT and a righteous one at that. Calling him anything other then a prophet or a messenger is merely degrading the AllMighty Allah and degrading Isa (Peace be upon him) Himself. On the day of judgement Isa (Peace be upon him) will be a witness against the disbelievers and the people who disobeyed his true message. Allah SWT has already informed us what is going to happen on the day of resurrection so we should all take heed and listen to what Allah SWT has informed us. We have already been informed of the answer that Isa (Peace be upon him) will give when he is questioned about the message he informed his people. This will also be a witness against you on the day of judgement and a blessing from Allah SWT because he has given us all a for warning so that we don't come onto the final day unprepared.
"And (Remember) when Allah will say (on the Day of Resurrection). "O 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)! Remember My Favour to you and to your mother when I supported you with Ruh*ul*Qudus [Jibrael (Gabriel)] so that you spoke to the people in the cradle and in maturity; and when I taught you writing, Al*Hikmah (the power of understanding), the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel); and when you made out of the clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My Permission, and you breathed into it, and it became a bird by My Permission, and you healed those born blind, and the lepers by My Permission, and when you brought forth the dead by My Permission; and when I restrained the Children of Israel from you (when they resolved to kill you) since you came unto them with clear proofs, and the disbelievers among them said: 'This is nothing but evident magic.' " (Al-Ma'idah 5:110)"
"And (remember) when Allah will say (on the Day of Resurrection): "O 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)! Did you say unto men: 'Worship me and my mother as two gods besides Allah?' " He will say: "Glory be to You! It was not for me to say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would surely have known it. You know what is in my inner*self though I do not know what is in Yours, truly, You, only You, are the All*Knower of all that is hidden and unseen. (Al-Ma'idah 5:116)"
"Never did I say to them aught except what You (Allah) did command me to say: 'Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.' And I was a witness over them while I dwelt amongst them, but when You took me up, You were the Watcher over them, and You are a Witness to all things. (This is a great admonition and warning to the Christians of the whole world). (Al-Ma'idah 5:117)"
"If You punish them, they are Your slaves, and if You forgive them, verily You, only You are the All*Mighty, the All*Wise." (Al-Ma'idah 5:118)
"Allah will say: "This is a Day on which the truthful will profit from their truth: theirs are Gardens under which rivers flow (in Paradise) - they shall abide therein forever. Allah is pleased with them and they with Him. That is the great success (Paradise)." (Al-Ma'idah 5:119)
"To Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and all that is therein, and He is Able to do all things." (Al-Ma'idah 5:120)
This is who Isa (Peace be upon him) is in Islam, He is a righteous Slave of Allah SWT who obeyed his every command. Never did he say nothing but what Allah SWT commanded him to say and on the Day of Judgement will be amongst the highest levels of the muslims.
We as muslims believe that Noah, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad (peace be upon them all) were prophets. There have been a total of 124,000 prophets that have come to mankind to call to the worship of Allaah Alone. However, the majority of mankind has fallen astray, because they do believe in a Creator, but they reject the fact that He should be worshipped alone.
Lets touch on this You use Jesus in this as a prophet, Jesus claimed to be God many times, but can someone be a prophet in Islam and claim to be God at the same time?
Concept of God in Christianity
by Dr. Zakir Naik
Position of Jesus (pbuh) in Islam:
(i) Islam is the only non-Christian faith, which makes it an article of faith to believe in Jesus (pbuh). No Muslim is a Muslim if he does not believe in Jesus (pbuh).
(ii) We believe that he was one of the mightiest Messengers of Allah (swt).
(iii) We believe that he was born miraculously, without any male intervention, which many modern day Christians do not believe.
(iv) We believe he was the Messiah translated Christ (pbuh).
(v) We believe that he gave life to the dead with God’s permission.
(iv) We believe that he healed those born blind, and the lepers with God’s permission.
II CONCEPT OF GOD IN CHRISTIANITY:
1. Jesus Christ (pbuh) never claimed Divinity
One may ask, if both Muslims and Christians love and respect Jesus (pbuh), where exactly is the parting of ways? The major difference between Islam and Christianity is the Christians’ insistence on the supposed divinity of Christ (pbuh). A study of the Christian scriptures reveals that Jesus (pbuh) never claimed divinity. In fact there is not a single unequivocal statement in the entire Bible where Jesus (pbuh) himself says, "I am God" or where he says, "worship me". In fact the Bible contains statements attributed to Jesus (pbuh) in which he preached quite the contrary. The following statements in the Bible are attributed to Jesus Christ (pbuh):
(i) "My Father is greater than I."[The Bible, John 14:28]
(ii) "My Father is greater than all."[The Bible, John 10:29]
(iii) "…I cast out devils by the Spirit of God…."[The Bible, Mathew 12:28]
(iv) "…I with the finger of God cast out devils…."[The Bible, Luke 11:20]
(v) "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgement is just; because I seek not my own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me."[The Bible, John 5:30]
2. The Mission of Jesus Christ (pbuh) – to Fulfill the Law
Jesus (pbuh) never claimed divinity for himself. He clearly announced the nature of his mission. Jesus (pbuh) was sent by God to confirm the previous Judaic law. This is clearly evident in the following statements attributed to Jesus (pbuh) in the Gospel of Mathew:
"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the Prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
"Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven; but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
"For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven."[The Bible, Mathew 5:17-20]
3. God Sent Jesus' (pbuh)
The Bible mentions the prophetic nature of Jesus (pbuh) mission in the following verses:
(i) "… and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me."[The Bible, John 14:24]
(ii) "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou has sent."[The Bible, John 17:3]
4. Jesus Refuted even the Remotest Suggestion of his Divinity
Consider the following incident mentioned in the Bible:
"And behold, one came and said unto him, ‘Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?’
And he said unto him, ‘Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.’ "[The Bible, Mathew 19:16-17]
Jesus (pbuh) did not say that to have the eternal life of paradise, man should believe in him as Almighty God or worship him as God, or believe that Jesus (pbuh) would die for his sins. On the contrary he said that the path to salvation was through keeping the commandments. It is indeed striking to note the difference between the words of Jesus Christ (pbuh) and the Christian dogma of salvation through the sacrifice of Jesus (pbuh).
5. Jesus (pbuh) of Nazareth – a Man Approved of God
The following statement from the Bible supports the Islamic belief that Jesus (pbuh) was a prophet of God.
"Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know."[The Bible, Acts 2:22]
6. The First Commandment is that God is One
The Bible does not support the Christian belief in trinity at all. One of the scribes once asked Jesus (pbuh) as to which was the first commandment of all, to which Jesus (pbuh) merely repeated what Moses (pbuh) had said earlier:
"Shama Israelu Adonai Ila Hayno Adonai Ikhad."
This is a Hebrew quotation, which means:
"Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord."[The Bible, Mark 12:29]
It is striking that the basic teachings of the Church such as Trinity and vicarious atonement find no mention in the Bible. In fact, various verses of the Bible point to Jesus’ (pbuh) actual mission, which was to fulfill the law revealed to Prophet Moses (pbuh). Indeed Jesus (pbuh) rejected any suggestions that attributed divinity to him, and explained his miracles as the power of the One True God.
Jesus (pbuh) thus reiterated the message of monotheism that was given by all earlier prophets of Almighty God.
III CONCEPT OF GOD IN OLD TESTAMENT:
1. God is One
The following verse from the book of Deuteronomy contains an exhortation from Moses (pbuh):
"Shama Israelu Adonai Ila Hayno Adna Ikhad".
It is a Hebrew quotation which means:
"Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord"
[The Bible, Deuteronomy 6:4]
2. Unity of God in the Book of Isaiah
The following verses are from the Book of Isaiah:
(i) "I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour."
[The Bible, Isaiah 43:11]
(ii) "I am Lord, and there is none else, there is no God besides me."[The Bible, Isaiah 45:5]
(iii) "I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me."[The Bible, Isaiah 46:9]
3. Old Testament condemns idol worship
(i) Old Testament condemns idol worship in the following verses:
"Thou shalt have no other gods before me."
"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:"
"Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God."
[The Bible, Exodus 20:3-5]
(ii) A similar message is repeated in the book of Deuteronomy:
"Thou shalt have none other gods before me."
"Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that in the earth beneath, or that is in the water beneath the earth."
"Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them; for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God."
[The Bible, Deuteronomy 5:7-9]
Islam is the only religion which teaches the existence of a PERFECT God. A
perfect God means that there is no sharer in His Nature and His Attributes:
"Say: He is God, the One and Only; God, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; and there is none like unto Him." (Holy Qur'an, 112:1-4)
There has appeared a man in Benoni. He is not qualified in theology, but is
fondly cherishing the self-delusion that he is an apostle of Christ,
appointed by God to convert Muslims to Christianity. Because he is a lawyer
by profession, he is adept at juggling with words and quoting the Holy Qur'an
totally out of context without knowing a word of Arabic. He wants Muslims to
believe that Jesus was also a God, a belief that is abhorrent to us, because
it is an antithesis of the Absolute perfection of Allah Subhaanahoo Wa Ta
'Aala!
Thus intent upon reversing the process of Truth, which is: "And say: The Truth has come and falsehood vanished. Surely falsehood is ever bound to vanish." (Qur'an, 17:81). In this he will never succeed because the process of Truth is irreversible.
TWO REASONS
He has given two reasons to prove that Jesus is God, viz: (i) "When we say
Jesus is deity (or even God for that matter), we do not make him the Father!
He is one with the Father and therefore HE SHARES HIS NATURE", and (ii) "HE
IS IN EVERY WAY LIKE THE FATHER but he is not the Father".
In short, according to him, Jesus is God because He SHARES THE NATURE OF GOD,and HE IS IN EVERY WAY LIKE GOD. These two reasons given by him to prove the divinity of Jesus are so puerile that they speak volumes of his legal
training.
Numerous quotations from the Bible are given below to prove that Jesus
neither SHARED THE NATURE OF GOD, nor is he IN EVERY WAY LIKE GOD. He can,therefore, NEVER be GOD. We have given the quotations from the Bible without comment, because the Bible speaks for itself! TO SAY THAT JESUS IS GOD OR SON OF GOD IS NOT ONLY A MOCKERY OF GODHOOD, BUT BLASPHEMY OF THE LOWEST ORDER AND AND INSULT TO THE INTELLIGENCE OF MEN! (Note: Unless otherwise stated, all quotations from the Bible are given from the Authorized Version. In our headings and subheadings we have referred to Jesus as "God" in inverted commas in order to show the ABSURDITY of the claim of this man that Jesus is God!)
THE BIRTH OF "GOD"
"God" was created from the seed of David: "Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the SEED of David according to the flesh."(Romans, 1:3)
"God" was the fruit of the loins of David: "Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his
throne." (Acts, 2:30)
The Ancestors of "God": "The generations of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham." (Matthew, 1:1)
The Sex of "God": "And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called Jesus." (Luke, 2:21)
How Mary Conceived and Delivered "God". Mary conceived Jesus like any other woman: "The days were accomplished that she should be delivered," (Luke, 2:6) which means that she went through all the normal stages of pregnancy.Nor was her delivery any different from other expectant mothers: "And she being with child cried, travelling in birth, and pained to be delivered." (Revelation, 12:2)
"God" Sucked The Paps of a Woman: "And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked." (Luke, 11:27)
The Country of Origin of "God": "Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king. (Matthew, 2:1)
The Occupation of "God": "Jesus was a carpenter by trade." (Mark, 6:3), "and the son of a carpenter." (Matthew, 13:55)
The Transport of "God": "Behold, thy king cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass." (Matthew, 21:5) "And Jesus, when he had found a young ass, sat thereon." (John, 12:14)
The Wining and Dining of "God": "The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners." (Matthew, 11:9; Luke, 7:34)
The Poverty of "God": "And Jesus saith unto him, the foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head." (Matthew, 8:20)
The Meagre Possessions of "God": "Shoes of Jesus" (Luke, 3:16), "Garments and coat of Jesus" (John, 19:23)
"God" Was a Devout Jew: "And in the morning, rising up a great while before day, he went out, and departed into a solitary place, and there prayed." (Mark, 1:35)
"God" Was a Loyal Subject: Jesus was a good citizen, he was loyal to Caesar.He said: "Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's." (Matthew, 22:21) He paid his tax regularly. (Matthew, 17:24-27)
THE FAMILY OF "GOD"
"God" Was the Son of Joseph: "Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, we have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph" (John, 1:45)
Brothers and Brothers-in-law of "God": "And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works? Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and
Simon, and Judas? And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence hath
this man all these things? (Matthew, 13:54-56)
THE DEVELOPMENT OF "GOD"
Spiritual Development of "God": "And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom." (Luke, 2:40)
Mental, Physical and Moral Development of "God": "And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man." (Luke, 2:52)
"God" Was 12 Years Old When His Parents Took Him to Jerusalem: "Now his parents went to Jerusalem every year at the feast of the passover. And when he was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem after the custom of the feast." (Luke, 2:41-42)
The Powerless "God" (Jesus) said: "I can of mine own self do nothing." (John, 5:30)
"God" Was Ignorant of the Time. Jesus said: "But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father." (Mark, 13:32)
"God" Was Ignorant of the Season: "And on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he (Jesus) was hungry: and seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find anything thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not
yet." (Mark, 11:12-13)
"God" Was Unlettered: "Now about the midst of the feast Jesus went up into the temple, and taught. And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned?" (John, 7:14-15)
"God" Learnt Through Experience: "Learned he obedience by the things which he sufered." (Hebrews, 5:8)
THE TEMPTING OF "GOD"
The Devil Tempted "God" For 40 Days: "And immediately the spirit driveth him into the wilderness. And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan." (Mark, 1:12-13)
The Devil Tempted "God" Continuously: "And when the devil had ended all the temptation, he departed from him for a season." (Luke, 4:13)
Like the Sinners, "God" Was Tempted In All Things: "But (he) was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin." (Hebrews, 4:15)
True God Cannot be Tempted With Evil: "God cannot be tempted with evil,neither tempteth he any man." (James, 1:13)
Only The Ungodly Are Tempted With Evil: "But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed." (James, 1:14)
THE MISSION OF "GOD"
The Confession and Repentance of "God": before the beginning of his public ministry: "Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist" (Matthew, 3:13), "which signified the confession of sins" (Matthew, 3:6), "and repentance from sins (Matthew, 3:11).
"God" Did Not Come to Save the Sinners: "And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable. And he said unto them, unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that without, all these things are done in parables: That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them." (Mark, 4:10-12)
THE RACIAL "GOD"
"God" Was a Tribal Jew: "The lion of the tribe of Juda." (Revelation, 5:5)
"God" Came For The Jews Only: "But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." (Matthew, 15:24)
Racial Discrimination of "God": "These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." (Matthew, 10:5-6)
According to "God", The Gentiles Are Dogs: "It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs." (matthew, 15:26)
The Kingdom of "God": And he (Jesus) shall reign over THE HOUSE OF JACOB for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end." (Luke, 1:33)
The Titles of "God": "The king of the Jews" (Matthew, 2:2), "The king of Israel" (John, 1:49; 12:13)
A "GOD" UNLIKE THE GOD
A Hungry "God": "And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungered." (Matthew 4:2), "Now in the morning as he returned into the city, he hungered." (Matthew, 21:18), "and on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he was hungry." (Mark, 11:12)
A Thirsty "God": "(He) saith, I thirst." (John, 19:28)
A Sleepy "God": "He was asleep." (Matthew, 8:24), "He fell asleep" (Luke,
8:23), "And he was in the hinder part of the ship, asleep on a pillow."
(Mark, 4:38)
A Weary "God": Jesus therefore, being wearied with his journey, sat thus on
the well." (John, 4:6)
A Groaning "God": "He groaned in the spirit, and was troubled." (John,
11:33), "Jesus therefore again groaning in himself cometh to the grave."
(John, 11:38)
A Weeping "God": "Jesus wept." (John, 11:35)
A Sorrowing "God": "And (he) began to be sorrowful and very heavy." (Matthew 26:37). "Then saith he unto them, my soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death." (Matthew, 26:38)
A Hysterical "God": "And (he) began to be soreamazed and to be very heavy." (Mark, 14:33)
A Weak "God": "And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven,
strengthening him." (Luke, 22:43)
THE WARRING "GOD"
The Strong-Arm Method of "God": "And he went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold therein, and them that bought." (Luke, 19:45). "And the Jews' passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem, and found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting: and when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables." (John, 2:13-15)
The "God" of War: Jesus said: "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." (Matthew, 10:34)
The Sabre-Rattling "God": Jesus said: "And he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." (Luke, 22:36)
The "GOD" ON THE RUN
"God" Was Panic-Stricken: "After these things Jesus walked in Galilee: for he would not walk in Jewry, because the Jews sought to kill him." (John, 7:1)
"God" Walked in Fear of the Jews: "Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death. Jesus therefore walked no more openly among the Jews." (John, 11:53-54)
"God" Has Shown a Clean Pair of Heels: "Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand." (John, 10:39)
"God" Fled in Disguise: "Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by." (John, 8:59)
THE CAPTURE OF "GOD"
A Friend Betrayed the Secret Hiding Place of "God": "And Judas also, which betrayed him, knew the place: for Jesus off-times resorted thither with his disciples. Judas then, having received a band of man and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, cometh thither with lanterns and torches and weapons." (John, 18:2-3)
"God" Was Arrested, Bound and Led Away: "Then the band and the captain and officers of the Jews took Jesus, and bound him, and led him away." (John,18:12-13)
"God" Was Humiliated: "And the men that held Jesus mocked him, and smote him. And when they had blindfolded him, they struck him on the face." (Luke, 22:63-64). "Then did they spit in his face, and buffeted him; and others smote him with the palms of their hands." (Matthew, 26:67)
"God" Was Defenseless: "One of the officers which stood by struck Jesus with the palm of his hand", he said: "Why smitest thou me?" (John, 18:22-23)
"God" Was Condemned to Death: "And they all condemned him to be guilty of death." (Mark, 14:64). "They answered and said, he is guilty of death." (Matthew, 26:66)
The Dumb and Docile "God": "He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth." (Acts, 8:32)
THE SUPPOSED END OF "GOD"
The Dying "God": "And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost." (Mark, 15:37)
The "God" That Was Supposed Dead and Defunct: "Christ died." (Romans, 5:6)."He was dead". (John, 19:33)
The Supposed Corpse of "God": "he (Joseph of Arimathaea) went to Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. Then Pilate commanded the body to be delivered."(Matthew, 27:58)
The Shroud of "God": "And when Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth." (Matthew, 27:59)
The Orbituary of The Late And Lamented "God": "Now when the centurion saw what was done, he glorified God, saying, certainly this was a righteous man."(Luke, 23:47)
EPILOGUE
According to this self-appointed apostle of Christ, Jesus is God because: (i)
"HE SHARED THE NATURE OF GOD", and (ii) because "IN EVERY WAY HE IS LIKE GOD". But according to the quotations of the Bible given above, we find that Jesus did neither SHARE THE NATURE OF GOD nor is he IN EVERY WAY LIKE GOD.
He is, therefore, definitely NOT God! The onus to prove that Jesus is God
now rests with this Christian. Either he must prove that Jesus is God, or he
must admit that he is a polytheist, i.e., a believer in more than one God. WITH ALL THE TRICKS AND VERBAL LEGERDEMAIN OF HIS PROFESSION, HE WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO PROVE THAT JESUS IS GOD!!
He and his fellow-preachers in Christ, will never succeed in convincing the
Muslims that Jesus was anything other than a natural man and a prophet of
God, sent unto the house of Israel to bear the good news of the coming of the KINGDOM OF GOD, which prophecy was fulfilled with the advent of the Holy Prophet Muhammed (Sallal Laahu Alaihi Wa Sallam)!
019.019
YUSUFALI: He said: "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of a holy son.
PICKTHAL: He said: I am only a messenger of thy Lord, that I may bestow on thee a faultless son.
SHAKIR: He said: I am only a messenger of your Lord: That I will give you a pure boy.
I begin in the name of The One Deserving of Worship and Praise, the Owner of Mercy and the Giver of Mercy.
And ask Him to send His blessings upon all those who have submitted to Him.
format_quote Originally Posted by Follower
Jesus is perfect:
019.019
YUSUFALI: He said: "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of a holy son.
PICKTHAL: He said: I am only a messenger of thy Lord, that I may bestow on thee a faultless son.
SHAKIR: He said: I am only a messenger of your Lord: That I will give you a pure boy.
Do you know what it means to be perfect? And do you know what it means to be pure or free from sin?
Moreover do you know that this same word which is here translated as pure or faultless or holy is used for Yahya (John) earlier in this chapter, do you understand him to be perfect too?
And (made him) sympathetic to men as a mercy (or a grant) from Us, and pure from sins [i.e. Yahya (John)] and he was righteous, (Maryam 19:13)
Moreover by way of seeing your understanding, may I ask, when you recieve you new body at the resurrection which is pure in order to be with God, will that mean due to your cleansing from sin that you in this new form will be God, due to your purity/faultlesness?
Regards,
Br.'Eesa al-Habeshi
The path is long but I hope we meet,
After the grave and the Day, in paradise in bliss upon a reclined seat.
A traveler traveling - travelled from shirk to tawheed,
If I'm remembered for anything - let it be the Mercy I seek.
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