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    Jesus(as) in Islam

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    Quote Originally Posted by SirZubair View Post
    No.

    If your question was "is there any flaws within the muslims themselves?" then the answer would be :

    Yes.

    I hate to turn the table but....

    ... is there any flaw in the Christian faith?
    I was pretty sure i posted back to this message, but no there is no flaw, in the Christian faith, (well the bible which im pretty sure you knew thats what christianity is based off of, but there isnt) and what are your views on Jesus? I am willing to discuss him with you.

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    Re: Question

    [QUOTE=Fi_Sabilillah;691739]Hey




    We as muslims believe that Noah, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad (peace be upon them all) were prophets. There have been a total of 124,000 prophets that have come to mankind to call to the worship of Allaah Alone. However, the majority of mankind has fallen astray, because they do believe in a Creator, but they reject the fact that He should be worshipped alone.

    Lets touch on this You use Jesus in this as a prophet, Jesus claimed to be God many times, but can someone be a prophet in Islam and claim to be God at the same time?

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    Re: Jesus(as) in Islam

    I moved these posts over to their own thread in this section as the Discover Islam section is not meant to be for debate.
    Jesus(as) in Islam




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    Re: Jesus(as) in Islam

    Isa(Jesus)(as) is covered in much more detail in the Qur'an than He is in the Bible. There is much more said about him and all of the miracles Allah(swt) performed through him are acknowledged along with some that are not mentioned in the Bible.

    You will find that many of us here are reverts and had at one time been Christian.

    Speaking only for myself, although I think others will agree.

    When I was Christian I met Isa(as), but it was as a Muslim I truly accepted Isa(as) as we are meant to accept Him and learned to Love him deeply and not love the myths I had been taught about Him. To truly learn and meet the real Jesus(as) will set you free and let you love and worship God(swt) as we are meant to.

    My prayers are that you too will be set free from the myths and become a true servant of the Lord and worship God(swt) with the Fullness we are intended to were created for.

    True freedom can only come from a full acceptance of Allah(swt) and it is only then can we learn to love Isa(as) and all of the Prophets(PBUT) as we are meant to.

    It saddens to see you stuck in the worshiping of a myth and failing to love Isa(as) and to truly worship God(swt)
    Jesus(as) in Islam




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    Re: Question

    Quote Originally Posted by JesusIsKing View Post
    Lets touch on this You use Jesus in this as a prophet, Jesus claimed to be God many times, but can someone be a prophet in Islam and claim to be God at the same time?
    Hi King,

    It seems you are willing to discuss in a civil way so I couldn't help myself but reply, specially since this topic, i.e. Jesus, peace be upon him, is one that I love.

    I would like to focous on your statement:


    Jesus claimed to be God many times,

    Two things would come to mind, first, the question as to whether Jesus really did claim to be God, or whether people see a piece of writing, are told to believe something and then try to derive proof from the writing to back up their belief.

    Second, I would wonder about the source you use that claims that Jesus claimed to be God many times.
    Jesus(as) in Islam

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    Your Bro. Abu Hurayra, al-Habeshi

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    Re: Question

    Quote Originally Posted by JesusIsKing View Post
    Lets touch on this You use Jesus in this as a prophet, Jesus claimed to be God many times, but can someone be a prophet in Islam and claim to be God at the same time?

    No since Jesus never stated anywhere in the bible that he is God himself, nor did he tell the people to worship him.


    God doesn't allow himself to be killed by his own creation, and God doesn't die. Rather, God is the One who created us, the One who gave us life, the One who provides for us and sends messengers from among us so they may call us to His obedience, then He causes us to die after some time. Then he raises us back to life once again to judge us on all that we did in this world.

    Those who obeyed the Messengers' who claim with clear signs will be successful in this world and the hereafter in the true home of paradise, those who reject the messengers and prefer disbelief over belief will be punished in the blazing fire.


    They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One Allah. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them.

    Why turn they not to Allah, and seek His forgiveness? For Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

    Christ the son of Mary was no more than a messenger; many were the messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how Allah doth make His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!

    Say: "Will ye worship, besides Allah, something which hath no power either to harm or benefit you? But Allah,- He it is that heareth and knoweth all things."

    Say: "O people of the Book! exceed not in your religion the bounds (of what is proper), trespassing beyond the truth, nor follow the vain desires of people who went wrong in times gone by,- who misled many, and strayed (themselves) from the even way.

    Curses were pronounced on those among the Children of Israel who rejected Faith, by the tongue of David and of Jesus the son of Mary: because they disobeyed and persisted in excesses.


    [Qur'an Al Ma'ida - The Table Spread 5: 73-78]

    One day will Allah gather the messengers together, and ask: "What was the response ye received (from men to your teaching)?" They will say: "We have no knowledge: it is Thou Who knowest in full all that is hidden."

    Then will Allah say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Recount My favour to thee and to thy mother. Behold! I strengthened thee with the holy spirit [angel Gabriel], so that thou didst speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught thee the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel and behold! thou makest out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My leave, and thou breathest into it and it becometh a bird by My leave, and thou healest those born blind, and the lepers, by My leave. And behold! thou bringest forth the dead by My leave. And behold! I did restrain the Children of Israel from (violence to) thee when thou didst show them the clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said: 'This is nothing but evident magic.'

    "And behold! I inspired the disciples to have faith in Me and Mine Messenger: they said, 'We have faith, and do thou bear witness that we bow to Allah as Muslims'". [The word muslim is someone who submits to God.]


    Behold! the disciples, said: "O Jesus the son of Mary! can thy Lord send down to us a table set (with viands) from heaven?" Said Jesus: "Fear Allah, if ye have faith."

    They said: "We only wish to eat thereof and satisfy our hearts, and to know that thou hast indeed told us the truth; and that we ourselves may be witnesses to the miracle."

    Allah said: "I will send it down unto you: But if any of you after that resisteth faith, I will punish him with a penalty such as I have not inflicted on any one among all the peoples."


    And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah'?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.

    "Never said I to them aught except what Thou didst command me to say, to wit, 'worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord'; and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them; when Thou didst take me up Thou wast the Watcher over them, and Thou art a witness to all things.

    "If Thou dost punish them, they are Thy servant: If Thou dost forgive them, Thou art the Exalted in power, the Wise."


    Allah will say: "This is a day on which the truthful will profit from their truth: theirs are gardens, with rivers flowing beneath,- their eternal Home: Allah well-pleased with them, and they with Allah: That is the great salvation, (the fulfilment of all desires).

    To Allah doth belong the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is therein, and it is He Who hath power over all things.


    [Qur'an 5: 109-120]


    Last edited by - Qatada -; 03-23-2007 at 09:23 PM. Reason: spelling mistake

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    Re: Jesus(as) in Islam

    It was just pointed out to me that Jesus(as) Isa(as) is very much loved by both Christians and Muslims. It would be disrespectful to leave the thread on an open forum so I am going to move it back to the "Discover Islam" where it will be moderated and any disrespect will be avoided.
    Jesus(as) in Islam




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    Re: Jesus(as) in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodrow View Post
    I moved these posts over to their own thread in this section as the Discover Islam section is not meant to be for debate.
    ok alright, thats fine

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    Re: Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Al Habeshi View Post
    Hi King,

    It seems you are willing to discuss in a civil way so I couldn't help myself but reply, specially since this topic, i.e. Jesus, peace be upon him, is one that I love.

    I would like to focous on your statement:


    Jesus claimed to be God many times,

    Two things would come to mind, first, the question as to whether Jesus really did claim to be God, or whether people see a piece of writing, are told to believe something and then try to derive proof from the writing to back up their belief.

    Second, I would wonder about the source you use that claims that Jesus claimed to be God many times.
    In Exodus 3:14 God appeared in the burning bush and Moses asked who should he tell the israelites who sent the, and God said tell them that I am has sent you.

    Then go to John 8:58 The Jews said that Jesus is not more than 50 years old, and Jesus replied i tell you the truth, befor Abraham I am. Jesus was reffering to be God in that text.

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    Re: Question

    Quote Originally Posted by JesusIsKing View Post
    In Exodus 3:14 God appeared in the burning bush and Moses asked who should he tell the israelites who sent the, and God said tell them that I am has sent you.

    Then go to John 8:58 The Jews said that Jesus is not more than 50 years old, and Jesus replied i tell you the truth, befor Abraham I am. Jesus was reffering to be God in that text.

    So because Jesus is reported to have said I am, then he is god? What about anyone else? There's another person that I know of who said I am in the new testament.

    At best all that the text in John proves is pre existance, which does not mean God.

    Furthermore, if Jesus was saying he is God why not say it, why didnt he say I am what I am, the full phrase, also when the Gospel authors wrote the words of Jesus on the Cross some of them retrained the original language, yet when JEsus is claiming to be God and saying such a thing the author does not??

    This is exactly what I mean by having a belief and then trying to insert it in the scripture.

    From a technical point, isn't it interesting that such a great statement was only recorded by John.
    Jesus(as) in Islam

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    Your Bro. Abu Hurayra, al-Habeshi

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    Re: Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Al Habeshi View Post

    So because Jesus is reported to have said I am, then he is god? What about anyone else? There's another person that I know of who said I am in the new testament.

    At best all that the text in John proves is pre existance, which does not mean God.

    Furthermore, if Jesus was saying he is God why not say it, why didnt he say I am what I am, the full phrase, also when the Gospel authors wrote the words of Jesus on the Cross some of them retrained the original language, yet when JEsus is claiming to be God and saying such a thing the author does not??

    This is exactly what I mean by having a belief and then trying to insert it in the scripture.

    From a technical point, isn't it interesting that such a great statement was only recorded by John.
    That was just one example of him claiming to be God, but part of the reason I believe and most other christians believe he was reffering of him as being God is because he was quoting from exodus 3:14, and right after that the Jews picked up stones and tried to kill him, because they felt is was offensive and blasphamy to claim to be God.

    but heres anther example.
    Mark 14:60 Then the high priest stood up before them and asked Jesus, "Are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?" 61 But Jesus remained silent and gave no answer. Again the high priest asked him, "Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?" 62 "I am," said Jesus. "And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."

    Mathew 26:63 But Jesus remained silent. The high priest said to him, "I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God." 64 "Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied. "But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."

    Luke 22:66 At daybreak the council of the elders of the people, both the chief priests and teachers of the law, met together, and Jesus was led before them. 67 "If you are the Christ," they said, "tell us." Jesus answered, "If I tell you, you will not believe me, 68 and if I asked you, you would not answer. 69 But from now on, the Son of Man will be seated at the right hand of the mighty God." 70 They all asked, "Are you then the Son of God?" He replied, "You are right in saying I am." 71 Then they said, "Why do we need any more testimony? We have heard it from his own lips."

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    Re: Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Al Habeshi View Post

    So because Jesus is reported to have said I am, then he is god? What about anyone else? There's another person that I know of who said I am in the new testament.

    At best all that the text in John proves is pre existance, which does not mean God.

    Furthermore, if Jesus was saying he is God why not say it, why didnt he say I am what I am, the full phrase, also when the Gospel authors wrote the words of Jesus on the Cross some of them retrained the original language, yet when JEsus is claiming to be God and saying such a thing the author does not??

    This is exactly what I mean by having a belief and then trying to insert it in the scripture.

    From a technical point, isn't it interesting that such a great statement was only recorded by John.
    Jesus also reffered to himself as the good shepard and when the wolf comes (enamy) he would not abandon his sheep (people)

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    Re: Question

    Quote Originally Posted by JesusIsKing View Post
    That was just one example of him claiming to be God, but part of the reason I believe and most other christians believe he was reffering of him as being God is because he was quoting from exodus 3:14, and right after that the Jews picked up stones and tried to kill him, because they felt is was offensive and blasphamy to claim to be God.

    Well not all Christians believe Jesus is God, but I understand your point. Well that's assumption that he was quoting Exodus, and saying the Jews were going to kill him for blasphamy is hardly evidence, since we know the Jews wanted him dead anyway.


    Quote Originally Posted by JesusIsKing View Post
    but heres anther example.
    Mark 14:60 Then the high priest stood up before them and asked Jesus, "Are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?" 61 But Jesus remained silent and gave no answer. Again the high priest asked him, "Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?" 62 "I am," said Jesus. "And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."

    Mathew 26:63 But Jesus remained silent. The high priest said to him, "I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God." 64 "Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied. "But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."

    Luke 22:66 At daybreak the council of the elders of the people, both the chief priests and teachers of the law, met together, and Jesus was led before them. 67 "If you are the Christ," they said, "tell us." Jesus answered, "If I tell you, you will not believe me, 68 and if I asked you, you would not answer. 69 But from now on, the Son of Man will be seated at the right hand of the mighty God." 70 They all asked, "Are you then the Son of God?" He replied, "You are right in saying I am." 71 Then they said, "Why do we need any more testimony? We have heard it from his own lips."
    At best again this shows that Jesus is the Son of God, a term that many others were given. As you know the Jews wanted him dead anyway, so anything he said they'd use against him.

    The matter of a fact is, that there are many statements that can be brought forward, all those statements, if one is truthful with himself, are not clear cut and can be interpreted if wanted to mean many things. If we go along with the biblical context, then Jesus is not God, if we go along with a disposition in belief that Jesus is God, then any text can be used to find such belief.

    Luke 7

    33For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine, and you say, 'He has a demon.' 34The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and you say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and "sinners."

    Similarly, no matter what Jesus is claimed to have said, the pre convied beliefs will always be justified by some.

    What I believe, there is some truth in the Gospels, there is some stuff that might have slipped in there that is not true. I believe in God, the Almighty, who created the Earth and Skies, I believe that He knows all and nothing escapes Him, I believe He knows the sincerity of those who sincerly repent, and He forgives them without needing of sacrafise, I believe in Jesus, the messenger and servant of God, I believe he was a man accredited by God through whom God done many mighty works, I believe in Jesus' virgin birth, I believe in Jesus' ascension, I believe Jesus will return and rule and establish God's law.

    I love Jesus as I love myself if not more, he was and is a man, a great man, who is close to God in this life and the next.
    Jesus(as) in Islam

    The path is long but I hope we meet,
    After the grave and the Day, in paradise in bliss upon a reclined seat.

    A traveler traveling - travelled from shirk to tawheed,
    If I'm remembered for anything - let it be the Mercy I seek.

    Your Bro. Abu Hurayra, al-Habeshi

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    Re: Jesus(as) in Islam

    I often find that many non-Muslims have no understanding of how much love a Muslim has for Jesus(Isa)(as). Out of all of the Prophets that have come he is the only one the Qur'an tells us ascended to Jannah(Heaven) We await his second coming with much anticipation and look forward to his destroying the anti-Christ.

    When he returns it will be a time of great joy for all Believers.

    Isa(as) is held with very much love and respect and as Muslims we do know him and not the false image that has been presented of him.

    The Words of Isa(as) himself are the most reassuring that he was a true Prophet and spoke with righteousness:

    5:110. When Allah saith: O Jesus, son of Mary! Remember My favour unto thee and unto thy mother; how I strengthened thee with the holy Spirit, so that thou spakest unto mankind in the cradle as in maturity; and how I taught thee the Scripture and Wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel; and how thou didst shape of clay as it were the likeness of a bird by My permission, and didst blow upon it and it was a bird by My permission, and thou didst heal him who was born blind and the leper by My permission; and how thou didst raise the dead by My permission; and how I restrained the Children of Israel from (harming) thee when thou camest unto them with clear proofs, and those of them who disbelieved exclaimed: This is naught else than mere magic; Y S C

    5:111. And when I inspired the disciples, (saying): Believe in Me and in My messenger, they said: We believe. Bear witness that we have surrendered (unto Thee) "we are muslims". Y S C
    5:112. When the disciples said: O Jesus, son of Mary! Is thy Lord able to send down for us a table spread with food from heaven? He said: Observe your duty to Allah, if ye are true believers. Y S C

    5:113. (They said We wish to eat thereof, that we may satisfy our hearts and know that thou hast spoken truth to us, and that thereof we may be witnesses. Y S
    5:114. Jesus, son of Mary, said: O Allah, Lord of us! Send down for us a table spread with food from heaven, that it may be a feast for us, for the first of us and for the last of us, and a sign from Thee. Give us sustenance, for Thou art the Best of Sustainers. Y S C

    5:115. Allah said: Lo! I send it down for you. And whoso disbelieveth of you afterward, him surely will I punish with a punishment wherewith I have not punished any of (My) creatures. Y S C
    5:116. And when Allah saith: O Jesus, son of Mary! Didst thou say unto mankind: Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah? he saith: Be glorified! It was not mine to utter that to which I had no right. If I used to say it, then Thou knewest it. Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I know not what is in Thy Mind. Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Knower of Things Hidden? Y S C

    5:117. I spake unto them only that which Thou commandedst me, (saying): Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. I was a witness of them while I dwelt among them, and when Thou tookest me Thou wast the Watcher over them. Thou art Witness over all things. Y S C
    5:118. If Thou punish them, lo! they are Thy slaves, and if Thou forgive them (lo! they are Thy slaves). Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Mighty, the Wise. Y S C

    5:119. Allah saith: This is a day in which their truthfulness profiteth the truthful, for theirs are Gardens underneath which rivers flow, wherein they are secure for ever, Allah taking pleasure in them and they in Him. That is the great triumph. Y S C
    5:120. Unto Allah belongeth the Sovereignty of the heavens and the earth and whatsoever is therein, and He is Able to do all things. Y S
    Pickthal's Quran Translation
    Jesus(as) in Islam




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    Re: Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Al Habeshi View Post

    Well not all Christians believe Jesus is God, but I understand your point. Well that's assumption that he was quoting Exodus, and saying the Jews were going to kill him for blasphamy is hardly evidence, since we know the Jews wanted him dead anyway.




    At best again this shows that Jesus is the Son of God, a term that many others were given. As you know the Jews wanted him dead anyway, so anything he said they'd use against him.

    The matter of a fact is, that there are many statements that can be brought forward, all those statements, if one is truthful with himself, are not clear cut and can be interpreted if wanted to mean many things. If we go along with the biblical context, then Jesus is not God, if we go along with a disposition in belief that Jesus is God, then any text can be used to find such belief.

    Luke 7

    33For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine, and you say, 'He has a demon.' 34The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and you say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and "sinners."

    Similarly, no matter what Jesus is claimed to have said, the pre convied beliefs will always be justified by some.

    What I believe, there is some truth in the Gospels, there is some stuff that might have slipped in there that is not true. I believe in God, the Almighty, who created the Earth and Skies, I believe that He knows all and nothing escapes Him, I believe He knows the sincerity of those who sincerly repent, and He forgives them without needing of sacrafise, I believe in Jesus, the messenger and servant of God, I believe he was a man accredited by God through whom God done many mighty works, I believe in Jesus' virgin birth, I believe in Jesus' ascension, I believe Jesus will return and rule and establish God's law.

    I love Jesus as I love myself if not more, he was and is a man, a great man, who is close to God in this life and the next.

    There is only one thing wrong with your claim of saying that Jesus was a good man and you love him. because John 14:6 I am the way, the truth and the Life, noone comes to the father except through me.

    you cant believe Jesus was just a good guy, you either believe he is a Liar, lunatic or Lord, (quote by C.S. Lewis.) choose one.

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    Re: Jesus(as) in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodrow View Post
    I often find that many non-Muslims have no understanding of how much love a Muslim has for Jesus(Isa)(as). Out of all of the Prophets that have come he is the only one the Qur'an tells us ascended to Jannah(Heaven) We await his second coming with much anticipation and look forward to his destroying the anti-Christ.

    When he returns it will be a time of great joy for all Believers.

    Isa(as) is held with very much love and respect and as Muslims we do know him and not the false image that has been presented of him.

    The Words of Isa(as) himself are the most reassuring that he was a true Prophet and spoke with righteousness:


    Pickthal's Quran Translation
    Do you believe in what happened with Jacob?

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    May Allah have mercy on him رحمة الله عليه

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    Re: Jesus(as) in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by JesusIsKing View Post
    Do you believe in what happened with Jacob?
    Yes, I believe the following.

    2:129. "Our Lord! send amongst them a Messenger of their own, who shall rehearse Thy Signs to them and instruct them in scripture and wisdom, and sanctify them: For Thou art the Exalted in Might, the Wise." S P C

    2:130. And who turns away from the religion of Abraham but such as debase their souls with folly? Him We chose and rendered pure in this world: And he will be in the Hereafter in the ranks of the Righteous. S P
    C
    2:131. Behold! his Lord said to him: "Bow (thy will to Me):" He said: "I bow (my will) to the Lord and Cherisher of the Universe." S P
    2:132. And this was the legacy that Abraham left to his sons, and so did Jacob; "Oh my sons! Allah hath chosen the Faith for you; then die not except in the Faith of Islam." S P

    2:133. Were ye witnesses when death appeared before Jacob? Behold, he said to his sons: "What will ye worship after me?" They said: "We shall worship Thy god and the god of thy fathers, of Abraham, Isma'il and Isaac,- the one (True) Allah: To Him we bow (in Islam)." S P C
    2:134. That was a people that hath passed away. They shall reap the fruit of what they did, and ye of what ye do! Of their merits there is no question in your case! S P C

    2:135. They say: "Become Jews or Christians if ye would be guided (To salvation)." Say thou: "Nay! (I would rather) the Religion of Abraham the True, and he joined not gods with Allah." S P C
    2:136. Say ye: "We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them: And we bow to Allah (in Islam)." S P

    Yusuf Ali's Quran Translation
    Jesus(as) in Islam




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    Re: Jesus(as) in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodrow View Post
    Yes, I believe the following.
    What do you think of Israel?

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    Re: Jesus(as) in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodrow View Post
    Yes, I believe the following.
    I would also like to ask you, have you ever found and foulacy in the Bible? anything that has not come to pass or any geographical error?

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    Re: Jesus(as) in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by JesusIsKing View Post
    What do you think of Israel?
    As a country? Political affiliation? or historicaly?

    I know many Israelis and even have at least one relative who is Israeli, so I guess I have no problem with the people, if that is what you mean.
    Jesus(as) in Islam





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